Red Sox Rumors - Just Kidding

soxhop411

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He's not wrong. He rejected the offer, got traded, then took the Cubs offer. Olney never says he left the Red Sox to sign with the Cubs as a free agent
IMO my point still stands, he was traded to OAK, then signed with the cubs as a FA.... where any team could have signed him. This also is not the first time that Buster has tried to take potshots at the Sox. Also the fact he is using something that happened 8 freeking years ago, is Stupid, especially given its not even close to the same FO as then and a completely different CBA

Agent Scott Boras says Xander Bogaerts has “not closed any doors” on Red Sox, other teams in free agency
View: https://twitter.com/alexspeier/status/1598011823093329922


Boras shoots down the rumors


Sam Kennedy says Red Sox are still engaged with Xander Bogaerts and that no doors have been closed there.
View: https://twitter.com/ChrisCotillo/status/1598016000557207552

View: https://twitter.com/MacCerullo/status/1598016551546155008

Sam Kennedy said there have been a lot of discussions with free agents this week and wouldn’t be surprised if certain deals were imminent. Said he expects a lot of action during the Winter Meetings.
https://twitter.com/ChrisCotillo

Sam Kennedy says Red Sox are actively engaged with Rafael Devers. Also says the club had conversations with Jose Abreu.
View: https://twitter.com/ChrisCotillo/status/1598016647033675776
 
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brandonchristensen

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Feb 4, 2012
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This team is making it very easy to not care about them.

Edit - This was before I saw the post above mine. Point still stands in general.
 

Steve Dillard

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I could see Bogaerts wanting to return to Boston, just like last time. And Boston telling him to bring other best offers to them. In that case, there is a lot of sense for Boras to try to overcome the reluctance of other teams to be used this way by convincing them Bogaerts is ready to leave Boston.
 

chawson

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I could see Bogaerts wanting to return to Boston, just like last time. And Boston telling him to bring other best offers to them. In that case, there is a lot of sense for Boras to try to overcome the reluctance of other teams to be used this way by convincing them Bogaerts is ready to leave Boston.
This makes a lot of sense to me. It also indicates that Boras is trying to up the ante a bit before the Winter Meetings, where there is probably a deadline set by the Sox ownership. Because while the Sox FO has seemingly prioritized Bogaerts and Devers, they don't have the luxury of waiting all winter and realistically have to move on to other targets.
 

derekson

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If you have price and stick to it, but some other team has a higher offer, is that losing? The money they would have spend on Xander in this scenario, they are allowed to allocate it elsewhere, right?
Yeah! Maybe next year we can also finish in last place and not hit the cap! We can sign all of the bargains and not pay for premium talent at the market price!
 

moondog80

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Sep 20, 2005
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Theoretically, sure, but if you are focused on getting good value and short term deals, you are working with a much more limited pool of players. I think it’s also easier to avoid big money deals when you have an established core of high ceiling players under contract- the Red Sox just don’t, and they only have so many roster spots. It’s difficult to replace 5-6 win players.
Let's see how the offseason plays out.
 
The Sox are not in a contending window, now? Is that the consensus? Two wins away from the WS a few years ago and would have been good last year save for injuries seems to be the argument of the optimists…now things can change quickly and they aren’t in the same class as the Astros, but what is the expectation for the 23 Sox? Expecting to contend? Hoping?
It's not as clear cut as that. I think the Red Sox are at best a third tier team at the moment -- on the bubble. Above the Sox are the top tier (best teams in the league/WS or pennant favorites) and the second tier (teams that are highly probable to make the playoffs but are below the top tier). The third tier are teams that could make the playoffs and contend for a title if things break well. The Sox have been in this tier for a while now. In '21 we almost made the WS, largely because things broke very favorably. We got performances out of several players that were well beyond what was expected, and the rest played at least up to expectations for the most part. Last year the opposite happened -- injury and underperformance, with a last place finish as the result.

Next year the odds are a little lower, pending what teams do in free agency of course. The Red Sox could still contend, but they are very unlikely to break into the top tier based on the offseason alone. If they have a great offseason maybe they bump into the second tier, but even that I doubt.

The most likely paths to contention are some combination of:

  • Signing top tier free agents or trading our farm away
  • Getting lucky performances out of multiple mid-tier acquisitions/players already in the org
  • Extreme breakouts from Bello and Casas
Personally I don't like the first option at all as it risks hamstringing us a few years down the road when our prospects might actually push us up into the second or top tier. That is the time to sign top tier FA talent. Big FA signings in their most productive years timed with your young core peaking is how you create a multi year window of top tier contention.

I'm fine rolling the dice on the latter two even if the odds are lower in the short term. I don't want an extra 5-10% chance at a playoff spot this year if it means reducing our odds by 20% a few years down the road.
 

Ganthem

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What are you talking about that " make a lot of false arguments concerning my posts" and "Other posters on this board have called you out on this ..."?

Do you think I have a vendetta against you? I can assure that I don't. In your OP you made it sound like you have information that Abreu didn't want to DH. I was sincerely interested in reading it, because like I said, we all miss stuff. Maybe in Abreu's press conference he said something about not wanting to DH. Maybe in an article over the last three weeks, he said the same thing. People miss stuff all the time, what I was--again--sincerely asking is for where you got your information. You got called on it and now you're angry. That's cool. It happens to the best of us.

Do I understand that some players don't like their positions changed? Of course. But players change positions all the time. All I'm saying is that next time, frame your opinions as that, opinions.

BTW Ganthem, here's some advice: you haven't been on this board for very long. If you want to stay on this board as a member in good standing, start framing your opinions as such and keep the personal insults to nil. This is at least your second time being publicly warned about this.
So you are saying that players preferring to not DH and play their position is an opinion. You mean you have never heard of such a thing before? If you need clarfication of my post go look at RedHawksFans post. He seems to get what I am trying to say. If you want another example of you going on and making false assumptions go look in the What does 2023 look like thread. I believe it was Sand Leon Trosky who called you out there. Lastly I haven't made any personal insults against you. I am just tired of you trying to put words in my mouth or creating straw man when none exist.
 

ElcaballitoMVP

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What are you talking about that " make a lot of false arguments concerning my posts" and "Other posters on this board have called you out on this ..."?

Do you think I have a vendetta against you? I can assure that I don't. In your OP you made it sound like you have information that Abreu didn't want to DH. I was sincerely interested in reading it, because like I said, we all miss stuff. Maybe in Abreu's press conference he said something about not wanting to DH. Maybe in an article over the last three weeks, he said the same thing. People miss stuff all the time, what I was--again--sincerely asking is for where you got your information. You got called on it and now you're angry. That's cool. It happens to the best of us.

Do I understand that some players don't like their positions changed? Of course. But players change positions all the time. All I'm saying is that next time, frame your opinions as that, opinions.

BTW Ganthem, here's some advice: you haven't been on this board for very long. If you want to stay on this board as a member in good standing, start framing your opinions as such and keep the personal insults to nil. This is at least your second time being publicly warned about this.
Come on, relax. He provided a possibility as to Abreu not wanting to DH (when he could play 1B for the defending champs). He didn't personally insult you, from any posts I've read. Literally the first post I saw from him about the topic said, "Or perhaps the Sox did meet or exceed that and Abreu didn't want to DH. Would you prefer Casas as trade bait or back in the minors?" which is a perfectly reasonable thing to question. You jumped in asking for evidence where he said he didn't want to DH when Ganthem never even alluded to it being reported or was fact. It's just a possibility, no need to turn this into such a big deal.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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Apr 12, 2001
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So you are saying that players preferring to not DH and play their position is an opinion. You mean you have never heard of such a thing before? If you need clarfication of my post go look at RedHawksFans post. He seems to get what I am trying to say. If you want another example of you going on and making false assumptions go look in the What does 2023 look like thread. I believe it was Sand Leon Trosky who called you out there. Lastly I haven't made any personal insults against you. I am just tired of you trying to put words in my mouth or creating straw man when none exist.
Enough Ganthem.

If you want to continue this conversation, DM me.
 

JM3

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Abreu also plays like ~competent defensive first base (DRS is cool with him, DWAR isn't), which has some value to a team which...needs a first baseman.

Tony LaRussa was a bit more excited about Abreu's defense in 2021 than the above description...

(Abreu is) a special defender. ... His excellence on defense just inspires confidence in the infield, plus it saves runs.
He's definitely a Gold Glover. I see the work ethic. ... You can work hard and go in the game and fall asleep. It's just the way he takes the work ethic into the game.
& just for fun...

He's a beautiful guy. Beautiful in every way.
https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/white-sox/white-sox-tony-la-russa-jose-abreu-definitely-gold-glover

Abreu has also played most of his games at first over his career with the following breakdown...

DH v. 1B

Games 199 to 1,069
OPS .843 to .864
wOBA .358 to .365
wRC+ 129 to 134

Stats normalized over a 162 game season, DH v. 1B:

BA .290 to .292
HR 28 to 32
RBI 106 to 111

So not huge differences mostly, but better across the board when playing first.
 

soxhop411

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Sam Kennedy: "There could be some deals and moves that are imminent here that could pop at any moment. Over the weekend and through Thanksgiving turkey, I was watching my phone and sending lots of texts and emails back and forth quickly. Something could happen at any moment."
View: https://twitter.com/ChrisCotillo/status/1598028937493327872


I love corporate speak that could mean something or mean absolutely nothing
 

Max Power

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Luke Voit, come on down!

The needs of the team can't be solved just in free agency. They're going to need to explore some trades, too. I hope Chaim is busy during the winter meetings.
 

chawson

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Especially when it's for him to play first base
I laughed at this!

Whatever “deals and moves” Kennedy’s alluding to, I’m just eager for this next page to turn. Feels like we’ve been stuck in this one specific chapter of the grand Red Sox narrative for way too long.
 

KillerBs

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Some guy named Brenton Kelly tweets now that Xander has followed Padres on twitter "source confirms a deal could be imminent" fwiw
 

johnnywayback

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Some guy named Brenton Kelly tweets now that Xander has followed Padres on twitter "source confirms a deal could be imminent" fwiw
Even calling him "some guy" is giving him too much credit. He has 177 followers and just tweets a bunch of nonsense as if it's breaking news.
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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Luke Voit, come on down!

The needs of the team can't be solved just in free agency. They're going to need to explore some trades, too. I hope Chaim is busy during the winter meetings.
I actually think they feasibly could be solved in FA- Xander and a RF (Judge, Nimmo) and IMO, the lineup is good to go. Rotation IMO is already good to go. I'd like to see just one low BB high K rate pitcher signed for the pen.
But.... Judge, Nimmo are unlikely. So trades are.
 

moondog80

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Voit actually wouldn't be a terrible signing, if it's the 4th biggest deal they make.
 

chawson

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I actually think they feasibly could be solved in FA- Xander and a RF (Judge, Nimmo) and IMO, the lineup is good to go. Rotation IMO is already good to go. I'd like to see just one low BB high K rate pitcher signed for the pen.
But.... Judge, Nimmo are unlikely. So trades are.
I’m shocked that Nimmo remains so attractive to people. How much low-ISO mediocrity do we need from our corner outfield? Benintendi and Verdugo gave us 3,573 PAs at a .151 ISO clip over the last half-decade. Nimmo's ISO over the last two years is .154, an already low (bottom-third in MLB corner outfields) figure that would surely drop if he plays half his games at Fenway, where more of his pull-hitting fly balls would be caught. Nimmo is one of the left-handed hitters whose batted-ball profile makes very little use of the Green Monster, and he's one of luckiest (by BABIP) hitters in baseball over the last few years. If we outbid 29 teams for him, I'd be pissed.

There is very little difference between the offenses of Brandon Nimmo (.345 expected wOBA in '21-22) and Max Kepler (.343 expected wOBA in '21-22, rumored on the block in Minnesota), and only one of them plays right field.
 
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Petagine in a Bottle

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Not that I want the Sox to be the highest bidder on Nimmo but focusing on his ISO kind of obscures the fact that he’s a career .385 obp guy.
 

KillerBs

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Sorry about that. Some rando guy's tweet about who Xander is following on social media was not worth a post here.
 

nvalvo

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I’m shocked that Nimmo remains so attractive to people. How much low-ISO mediocrity do we need from our corner outfield? Benintendi and Verdugo gave us 3,573 PAs at a .151 ISO clip over the last half-decade. Nimmo's ISO over the last two years is .154, an already low (bottom-third in MLB corner outfields) figure that would surely drop if he plays half his games at Fenway, where more of his pull-hitting fly balls would be caught. Nimmo is one of the left-handed hitters whose batted-ball profile makes very little use of the Green Monster, and he's one of luckiest (by BABIP) hitters in baseball over the last few years. If we outbid 29 teams for him, I'd be pissed.

There is very little difference between the offenses of Brandon Nimmo and Max Kepler (rumored on the block in Minnesota), and only one of them plays right field.
I would rather have Kepler, who seems like a very interesting buy low candidate: good defense, good OBP, better quality of contact than his recent results have shown, signed to a sensible extension that includes one more year and a team option. If we can add offense elsewhere (C, SS, DH), he could be a savvy move for RF with a lot of upside.
 

DisgruntledSoxFan77

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Xander deleted his twitter back in like 2014 after some media jerk decided that it was newsworthy that a young man followed some scantily clad models on his social media accounts.
Good for him. Person should be free to like what they like (long as it’s legal), hell with who doesn’t like it! I was just asking because of that “report” on this page that he had followed the Padres so I went to look for myself
 

soxhop411

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More quotes from Sam Kennedy:
"Were you disappointed to see José Abreu go to Houston?" Sam Kennedy: "I’m excited about the commitment we have from John Henry and Tom Werner and the resources to invest into the 2023 club. I think we’re going to build a club this city is going to be proud of..
"There’s definitely a chip on everybody’s shoulder. Last year was disappointing and frustrating. People are fired up."
View: https://twitter.com/ChrisCotillo/status/1598057457607405570
 

bosox188

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I would rather have Kepler, who seems like a very interesting buy low candidate: good defense, good OBP, better quality of contact than his recent results have shown, signed to a sensible extension that includes one more year and a team option. If we can add offense elsewhere (C, SS, DH), he could be a savvy move for RF with a lot of upside.
Defensively, Kepler looks like he might be a bit better as well. OAA in the 97th percentile vs 90th for Nimmo, and outfielder jump in 69th vs 34th for Nimmo. Arm strength is even between both.
 

chawson

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Not that I want the Sox to be the highest bidder on Nimmo but focusing on his ISO kind of obscures the fact that he’s a career .385 obp guy.
Sure, I get that he's an OBP guy and he's a good player for sure. But I don't want him at 5/$100M or whatever he's going to get. Our team was extremely light on power last year and could be losing several big bats beyond that. Nimmo is not a long-term center fielder, and doesn't have the range nor arm for Fenway's right field. And in my opinion, Red Sox left fielders should be able to hit for power, because it's a lot harder to find power-bats at other positions.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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Sure, I get that he's an OBP guy and he's a good player for sure. But I don't want him at 5/$100M or whatever he's going to get. Our team was extremely light on power last year and could be losing several big bats beyond that. Nimmo is not a long-term center fielder, and doesn't have the range nor arm for Fenway's right field. And in my opinion, Red Sox left fielders should be able to hit for power, because it's a lot harder to find power-bats at other positions.
Fair enough. I don’t think the Sox will be the high bidder on a guy like Nimmo unless his market collapses (and don’t think he is worth losing picks over); and if he can’t play CF/RF, agree that he’s not a fit. They definitely need to find some power- assuming they are hoping for much of it to come from full seasons of Casas, Story, and Hernandez but they definitely need to find more. Some strong OBP guys would be nice, too, though.
 

Isles

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Aug 31, 2021
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A couple hours ago Xander posted an Instagram story of him seated in a tux with gauzy background and "I never dreamt of success. I worked for it" in a cursive font. He doesn't use it much so this smelled to me of "I just signed for a generational wealth amount of money."
@thexman2
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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I’m shocked that Nimmo remains so attractive to people. How much low-ISO mediocrity do we need from our corner outfield? Benintendi and Verdugo gave us 3,573 PAs at a .151 ISO clip over the last half-decade. Nimmo's ISO over the last two years is .154, an already low (bottom-third in MLB corner outfields) figure that would surely drop if he plays half his games at Fenway, where more of his pull-hitting fly balls would be caught. Nimmo is one of the left-handed hitters whose batted-ball profile makes very little use of the Green Monster, and he's one of luckiest (by BABIP) hitters in baseball over the last few years. If we outbid 29 teams for him, I'd be pissed.

There is very little difference between the offenses of Brandon Nimmo (.345 expected wOBA in '21-22) and Max Kepler (.343 expected wOBA in '21-22, rumored on the block in Minnesota), and only one of them plays right field.
FWIW, I wasn’t advocating for Nimno and agree with you. Just saying the Sox could solve their roster in FA
 

Yaz4Ever

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A couple hours ago Xander posted an Instagram story of him seated in a tux with gauzy background and "I never dreamt of success. I worked for it" in a cursive font. He doesn't use it much so this smelled to me of "I just signed for a generational wealth amount of money."
@thexman2
Well, that doesn't seem promising.
if the Sox offered something like 4/120 and the Padres offered 6/175, I won’t fault our front office. If we offered a lot less over a short period of time (like 4 years), I hope him signing elsewhere is immediately followed by us signing a great player with those same dollars rather than spreading them out for mediocrity. We won’t know until it’s all done, though.
 

BringBackMo

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1. If it's too much to ask to wait until the offseason is over before freaking out about...the offseason...can we at least wait until after the GM meetings?
2. If Xander signs elsewhere it is really going to be suck. Like everyone else here, I won't like it. At all. But I am confident that the Sox have a plan and will spend in salary and perhaps prospects to improve the team.
3. I wish Sam Kennedy would be quiet. I get the sense that he's feeling frustrated that all of these rumors are swirling, and that the Sox are perhaps being used for leverage, but that's part of the deal when you're the Red Sox and I think it would be better for him to just say nothing.
 

DeadlySplitter

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I really think Chaim was never interested in him, really never believed in the defense. Feels like he's gone. The Padres are really going to put him at 1st? You'd think Ha-Seong Kim would cede starting SS position.

I am also wondering, as fans try to convince themselves its' playoffs or bust for Chaim this year, if Chaim has sold ownership on quite a long-term retool rebuild plan for a big market. The proverbial penny might never drop this offseason, I say.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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A couple hours ago Xander posted an Instagram story of him seated in a tux with gauzy background and "I never dreamt of success. I worked for it" in a cursive font. He doesn't use it much so this smelled to me of "I just signed for a generational wealth amount of money."
@thexman2
Considering he opted out of a deal that had already paid him a "generational wealth amount of money", I'm not sure Bogaerts appearing to flaunt his money a bit is necessarily indicative of anything new.
 

moondog80

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3. I wish Sam Kennedy would be quiet. I get the sense that he's feeling frustrated that all of these rumors are swirling, and that the Sox are perhaps being used for leverage, but that's part of the deal when you're the Red Sox and I think it would be better for him to just say nothing.
I agree with this. The fact that he's speaking out, and that he's a savvy guy who has been in Boston most/all of his life and understands the scene...he must be *really* confident? If not he has a Duquette-like disconnect, and this ends up way worse than "more days in first place".
 

ElcaballitoMVP

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I really think Chaim was never interested in him, really never believed in the defense. Feels like he's gone. The Padres are really going to put him at 1st? You'd think Ha-Seong Kim would cede starting SS position.

I am also wondering, as fans try to convince themselves its' playoffs or bust for Chaim this year, if Chaim has sold ownership on quite a long-term retool rebuild plan for a big market. The proverbial penny might never drop this offseason, I say.
Not really sure what the Padres will do, but speculation around here was Cronenworth would shift to 1B, Tatis to the OF and Kim either at SS or 2B depending on who they brought in.