Red Sox Rumors - Just Kidding

Petagine in a Bottle

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Well, since Eovaldi, Wacha and Hill are currently not Sox starters, I guess there's an opening? Honestly, I dunno
Sale, Paxton, Bello, Pivetta, Whitlock; no? I mean, you need depth and I like Seth Lugo as a reliever but signing him to start over any of those guys? Not sure I see it.
 

streeter88

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That's now how it works.
Obviously not everybody, but there are some people who would take short-term pain of living away from their families to have a shot at a ring.

My post maybe was a bit strong in saying “would have” but I don’t think right now the average player looks at the Red Sox and thinks yeah they’re a good bet for 2023.
 

E5 Yaz

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Sale, Paxton, Bello, Pivetta, Whitlock; no? I mean, you need depth and I like Seth Lugo as a reliever but signing him to start over any of those guys? Not sure I see it.
No need to worry ... Lugo was born in Shreveport, so he'll sign with the Pelicans
 

ehaz

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Why are teams interested in Lugo as a starter? He’s 33, hasn’t started in the past two years and in his career has a 4.35 era as a starter vs 2.91 as a reliever….what am I missing here? Who among the Sox current starters would he displace?
It’s been a while since he’s started consistently and in the interim, he’s become somewhat of a spin rate darling. He also has a 4 pitch mix and doesn’t walk a lot of guys. Not saying that he excites me but I think some teams/coaching staffs feel like they could unlock some stuff.
 

DeadlySplitter

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One thing about Heaney & Haniger deals - they both have player optouts. Player optouts are incredibly player-friendly and can't be ignored when factoring the overall value of a deal.
 

ehaz

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Sale, Paxton, Bello, Pivetta, Whitlock; no? I mean, you need depth and I like Seth Lugo as a reliever but signing him to start over any of those guys? Not sure I see it.
How many innings are you projecting for Paxton in 2023? If it’s more than 60 I’m taking the under.

If Sale and Whitlock combined for 200 innings I’d be ecstatic.

You need 2 starters at a minimum if you don’t want to watch Seabold/Winkowski/Crawford for a combined ~30+ starts.
 

Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat

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No, I don’t think the org is necessarily telling anyone; but they’ve been linked to Eflin, Heaney, Kahnle, Abreu, Haniger, etc. Maybe it’s all a smokescreen and they weren’t really in on any of those guys, who knows. Guess we will see how things look on Opening day; but seems like a lot of good players who would have helped the Sox are off the board; despite the Sox massive financial advantages.
Being linked to someone, and/or being a player who we think would have helped the Sox doesn't mean they were top targets and priorities.
 

Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat

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Haniger is from Mountain View so I’m sure playing for his hometown team plays a part.

Justin Turner is next on my list for “veteran hitters that could rake in Fenway.” Purely as a hitter, I like him more than Haniger, but he’d be more of a JD-ish replacement + back-up at 3B/2B than a RF solution.

Not a lot if FA outfielders left to fill that gaping hole. Hopefully they have trade plans. We’re not in on Judge and I doubt we’re in on Nimmo. After that, you’re looking at Yoshida (just got posted), Benny, and Gallo I guess. Mancini/Duvall are more LF/1B types.
I'd be a big fan of a Justin Turner signing
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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Being linked to someone, and/or being a player who we think would have helped the Sox doesn't mean they were top targets and priorities.
Sure, it’s possible that all the reporting is wrong and the Sox aren’t really that interested on any org these guys. Ultimately, I suspect it’s the same approach as the pats two years- they are looking for value and aren’t really prioritizing anyone or any specific position and will just ultimately wait to see who falls or who will take their money. I do think there was the feeling by many that Bloom’s approach would completely change this off-season since he had oodles of money, not sure that’s true. Guess we will see.
 

Dewey'sCannon

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It's frustrating when no one will take your money. All dressed up with no place to go.

But I do like Justin Turner as a RH bat for DH and maybe some ABs at 1B (giving Cases some days off against tough lefties). Haniger was a better fit because he could play OF (maybe Turner could play some LF?).
 

soxhop411

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Sure, it’s possible that all the reporting is wrong and the Sox aren’t really that interested on any org these guys. Ultimately, I suspect it’s the same approach as the pats two years- they are looking for value and aren’t really prioritizing anyone or any specific position and will just ultimately wait to see who falls or who will take their money. I do think there was the feeling by many that Bloom’s approach would completely change this off-season since he had oodles of money, not sure that’s true. Guess we will see.
Story says otherwise.
The Red Sox were in on Zach Eflin (Orlando native, Rays), Mitch Haniger (San Jose native, Giants), Andrew Heaney (OK native, Rangers) and Tommy Kahnle (NY native, Yankees) in the last few days.

Geography is winning the Winter Meetings.
View: https://twitter.com/ChrisCotillo/status/1600316175095070720


Again. Money is not the end all be all. Location is important for players and unless you want to blame bloom for the sox geographical location (which i am sure some talking heads will try and do)
 

E5 Yaz

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Again. Money is not the end all be all. Location is important for players and unless you want to blame bloom for the sox geographical location (which i am sure some talking heads will try and do)
You realize that this is what is being said about these deals and might not necessarily be the whole truth, right? Because, no player is going to say "I rejected the higher offer because I didn't want to play for that organization."
 

TimScribble

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Geography is the new “gotta get under the luxury threshold”.
 

SoxinSeattle

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Sure, it’s possible that all the reporting is wrong and the Sox aren’t really that interested on any org these guys. Ultimately, I suspect it’s the same approach as the pats two years- they are looking for value and aren’t really prioritizing anyone or any specific position and will just ultimately wait to see who falls or who will take their money. I do think there was the feeling by many that Bloom’s approach would completely change this off-season since he had oodles of money, not sure that’s true. Guess we will see.
I am also frustrated but still believe in this organization. When has this ownership group not spent the money it takes to win? Mookie and the luxury tax for sure but I think that was a smart ( although sad and awful) move. They might me missing on guys they want but that's part of the deal. It takes two to tango.
 

Dewey'sCannon

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Thin-skin Pete did not appreciate Bloom’s little wine joke.
I think Pete Abe is trying to be the successor to CHB. I'm finding his negativism tiring. I understand (and agree) that the media should not be a bunch of fanboys (or fangirls) but they should really try to be evenhanded in covering the pros and cons or half-empty/half-full. And negativity from the media feeds negativity by the fan base.
 

BringBackMo

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I think Pete Abe is trying to be the successor to CHB. I'm finding his negativism tiring. I understand (and agree) that the media should not be a bunch of fanboys (or fangirls) but they should really try to be evenhanded in covering the pros and cons or half-empty/half-full. And negativity from the media feeds negativity by the fan base.
+1
 

chawson

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I think Pete Abe is trying to be the successor to CHB. I'm finding his negativism tiring. I understand (and agree) that the media should not be a bunch of fanboys (or fangirls) but they should really try to be evenhanded in covering the pros and cons or half-empty/half-full. And negativity from the media feeds negativity by the fan base.
Totally agree.

Also, who exactly is leaking these precise offers that Bloom is making to free agents? We’ve now seen apparently on-the-nose figures offered to Abreu, Heaney and Eflin. They all have different agents. I don’t remember any numbers being shared in similar situations the last three offseasons (maybe Kluber in 2020-21)?
 

mr_smith02

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Story says otherwise.
The Red Sox were in on Zach Eflin (Orlando native, Rays), Mitch Haniger (San Jose native, Giants), Andrew Heaney (OK native, Rangers) and Tommy Kahnle (NY native, Yankees) in the last few days.

Geography is winning the Winter Meetings.
View: https://twitter.com/ChrisCotillo/status/1600316175095070720


Again. Money is not the end all be all. Location is important for players and unless you want to blame bloom for the sox geographical location (which i am sure some talking heads will try and do)
You realize that this is what is being said about these deals and might not necessarily be the whole truth, right? Because, no player is going to say "I rejected the higher offer because I didn't want to play for that organization."
It is difficult to believe some of these players would be rejecting Boston's bigger offers if they truly felt like the roster and organization looked primed to win a World Series sometime soon.
 
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Speaking of catchers what about Wilson Contreras? Bad allocation of dollars? He is not an
elite defender but he had a an OPS+ of 128 last year and I think he has played 1st and LF as well as catcher. Bloom loves versatility.
How about Gary Sanchez? Younger and more power? He is still on the board. I remembering him hitting good over the Green Monster.
 

BaseballJones

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Mut on WEEI tonight complained that Bellinger is exactly the kind of guy the Sox should be really interested in. Said he had a "down" year last year.

Um, Mut....

2019: 47 hr, 115 rbi, 1.035 ops, 167 ops+, 8.6 bWAR, MVP - supermegastar
2020: 12 hr, 30 rbi, .789 ops, 112 ops+, 1.5 bWAR - Covid year but huge drop in rate stats
2021: 10 hr, 36 rbi, .542 ops, 44 ops+, -1.5 bWAR - epic disaster
2022: 19 hr, 68 rbi, .654 ops, 78 ops+, 1.2 bWAR - not good

It's not just that he had a "down" year last year. He's been an abject disaster for two straight seasons, and the one before that, while not terrible, was a HUGE step down from his MVP year. This is three not so good years in a row. NOT the kind of guy you want to spend nearly $20 million on.

It's possible that another year removed from his injury that he'll be better, and I wouldn't have minded the Sox taking a $10 million risk on him, but Mut...come on man.
 

soxhop411

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It is difficult to believe some of these players would be rejecting Boston's bigger offers if they truly felt like the roster and organization looked primed to win a World Series sometime soon.
We forget that Cliff Lee turned down more money from the Yankees to sign in PHI
https://www.theatlantic.com/culture/archive/2010/12/cliff-lee-spurns-yankees-for-phillies/343032/

Some players may not want to play in Boston for reasons not related to roster construction. (Same goes for NY teams).
They may not handle the pressure and media that comes with a large market team.
(Crawford and greinke say hello)
 

ehaz

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72 min for 4 years. That's... a lot. 18 x 4. Fangraphs guessed 14 x 3.
Another way of looking at how insane the Taijuan Walker deal is.

Kevin Gausman got 5/$110 last season. $3M more per + an additional year for a guy who had double the WAR at the same age in his walk year.
 

Manramsclan

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We forget that Cliff Lee turned down more money from the Yankees to sign in PHI
https://www.theatlantic.com/culture/archive/2010/12/cliff-lee-spurns-yankees-for-phillies/343032/

Some players may not want to play in Boston for reasons not related to roster construction. (Same goes for NY teams).
They may not handle the pressure and media that comes with a large market team.
(Crawford and greinke say hello)
And I would add, players signing here for the most money when they aren't all in on playing in this environment has been a disaster.
 

SoxinSeattle

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How about Gary Sanchez? Younger and more power? He is still on the board. I remembering him hitting good over the Green Monster.
Same age I think and Contreras has been better the last three years. WIllson's Qualifying Offer is what I assume is keeping Bloom from having much interest.
Edit: I just educated myself on the current Qualifying Offer situation. Hot damn. The Sox would lose their 2nd and 5th highest picks and $1M from the international bonus pool. Sorry Willson.
 
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snowmanny

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We forget that Cliff Lee turned down more money from the Yankees to sign in PHI
https://www.theatlantic.com/culture/archive/2010/12/cliff-lee-spurns-yankees-for-phillies/343032/

Some players may not want to play in Boston for reasons not related to roster construction. (Same goes for NY teams).
They may not handle the pressure and media that comes with a large market team.
(Crawford and greinke say hello)
Zach Greinke? He was awesome on the Dodgers, and last I checked they are a large market team. What are you talking about?
 

The Mort Report

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Mut on WEEI tonight complained that Bellinger is exactly the kind of guy the Sox should be really interested in. Said he had a "down" year last year.

Um, Mut....

2019: 47 hr, 115 rbi, 1.035 ops, 167 ops+, 8.6 bWAR, MVP - supermegastar
2020: 12 hr, 30 rbi, .789 ops, 112 ops+, 1.5 bWAR - Covid year but huge drop in rate stats
2021: 10 hr, 36 rbi, .542 ops, 44 ops+, -1.5 bWAR - epic disaster
2022: 19 hr, 68 rbi, .654 ops, 78 ops+, 1.2 bWAR - not good

It's not just that he had a "down" year last year. He's been an abject disaster for two straight seasons, and the one before that, while not terrible, was a HUGE step down from his MVP year. This is three not so good years in a row. NOT the kind of guy you want to spend nearly $20 million on.

It's possible that another year removed from his injury that he'll be better, and I wouldn't have minded the Sox taking a $10 million risk on him, but Mut...come on man.
He was really good the 2 years before 2019(ops+ 120 in '18, 143 in '17). I'm sure you baseball nuts around here will be able to immediately point to 5 players, but I can't think of a player that flew so high in his 22-24 year seasons to crash so hard in his 25-27. He's young enough that he's the type of guy I would take a chance with at the right price
 

soxhop411

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And I would add, players signing here for the most money when they aren't all in on playing in this environment has been a disaster.
Yup. As the saying goes: money doesn't buy happiness.

im pretty sure that Crawford, Panda etc regret taking the most instead of where they (and their family) would feel most comfortable.


Some players cant handle the constant bright lights that comes with playing for a large media/market team like NY or BOS. Where every mistake is amplified 10x what it should be compared to other markets.