Red Sox pitching carousel thread (our pitching is HISTORICALLY bad)

Humphrey

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Rough and Ras posting in this thread is the SoSH equivalent of Chet and Natalie rising from the dead, getting remarried, and covering the Building 19 bankruptcy story.

Great to see you, but you came back for this?
Nat buried Chet career-wise and literally...but she's still with us.

NECN- Never Ever Cross Natalie
 

E5 Yaz

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I think there's a good chance they don't allow a run all next week
 

vadertime

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Technical question. If/when a player is assigned to the alternate site, is that considered an option? In other words, do options even exist this year, will an option year be burned this year by players that are sent to the alternate site, or did that already kick in from the original start to spring training?
 
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rlsb

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Sixteen wins or fewer would set the futility record percentage wise. (43-111, .279, 88 years ago). 62-100 .383 in 1965 would be the equivalent to 23-37 for 2020, so those who seek utility from this futility may ultimately enjoy this "panoply" of pitching.
 

ngruz25

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Happened 5 of the first 10 last season too. Notably 2003 too, where they actually went 3-2. Club record is 6 in 1901.
I was curious about 2003 as I recalled that team had that "closer by committee" disaster in the beginning of the season. Here's a couple interesting notes about those 7+ runs against games:

- Two were due to Ramiro Mendoza, who had two 1 IP, 4 ER outings.

- One was because of 4 IP, 10 ER blowup start against the Orioles by noted scrub Pedro Martinez.
 

jon abbey

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Also 2003 BOS had one of the few best lineups in MLB history, so that helped.
 

ColonelForbin

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Sixteen wins or fewer would set the futility record percentage wise. (43-111, .279, 88 years ago). 62-100 .383 in 1965 would be the equivalent to 23-37 for 2020, so those who seek utility from this futility may ultimately enjoy this "panoply" of pitching.
The 1962 Mets were 40-120 (.250). I think 15-45 ties them and 14-46 or worse breaks the modern (non-Spiders) record for incompetence.
 

Minneapolis Millers

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Speier means at the end of the third inning, right? Cuz we do have 3 wins, and a win usually requires a lead after the third inning...

In any case, that’s not a really good stat.
 

Earthbound64

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Given this, it makes our staff look even worse:
 

BaseballJones

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Why is Jeffrey Springs on this team? He's now in his third season in the majors and hasn't been good in any of them.

2018: 3.38 era, 1.44 whip, 8.7 k/9 (but his fip was 4.25, so he got very lucky with that 3.38 era)
2019: 6.40 era, 1.89 whip, 8.9 k/9
2020: 15.43 era, 2.57 whip, 11.6 k/9

He's not truly "15.43 era" level bad, but he's bad (for a major leaguer; obviously he would blow any of us away without breaking a sweat). Do they really not have anyone better than him?
 

soxhop411

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With our horrible pitching this team may end up with a top 5 pick. And we are not facing cupcakes for the next few series.
 

jon abbey

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Was it ever definitively decided that the 2021 draft order would be based solely on 2020 regular season record? At one point they were discussing somehow combining 2019 and 2020 but that was before the 2020 season was agreed on, and I couldn't find a good answer when I looked the other day.
 

vadertime

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But what good is a top 5 pick going to be of there's still no college or high school baseball next year and you're basing draft picks off people that will now have gone 2 years without playing.
 

jon abbey

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But what good is a top 5 pick going to be of there's still no college or high school baseball next year and you're basing draft picks off people that will now have gone 2 years without playing.
Kumar Rocker has already thrown maybe the most impressive game I’ve ever seen by any pitcher on any level ever, a 19 K no-hitter against Duke in a must-win NCAA super regional game, the day after Duke had beaten them 18-5, forcing Vandy to win the next two to survive, which they did and ended up winning it all.


And Al Leiter’s son Jack is regarded to be right there with Rocker, either of those two look like major pickups for whoever gets them.
 

Papo The Snow Tiger

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Kyle Hart is staring today. Kyle Hart. Who's Kyle Hart??? I'm sure Mr. & Mrs. Hart are proud of their son, but seriously. Is Red Sox management giving up even the appearance of trying? The Sox traded away a generational talent to the Dodgers, included their #3 starter in the deal, and got NO pitching in return. Not even an MLB replacement caliber arm. At least when they traded away Adrian Gonzalez in the Punto trade they got a serviceable major league first basemen in James Loney to fill the void. And I don't want to hear about how the poor Red Sox lost their #1 & #2 starters. I'll conceded that ERod getting Covid wasn't in their plans, but Sale was having serious elbow problems last year and they only succeeded in kicking the can down the road by holding off on him having TJ surgery. They can't claim they were blindsided by that one, and yet there was no contingency plan in place. Shame on Chaim Bloom for that one.
 

Rovin Romine

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Kyle Hart is staring today. Kyle Hart. Who's Kyle Hart??? I'm sure Mr. & Mrs. Hart are proud of their son, but seriously. Is Red Sox management giving up even the appearance of trying? The Sox traded away a generational talent to the Dodgers, included their #3 starter in the deal, and got NO pitching in return. Not even an MLB replacement caliber arm. At least when they traded away Adrian Gonzalez in the Punto trade they got a serviceable major league first basemen in James Loney to fill the void. And I don't want to hear about how the poor Red Sox lost their #1 & #2 starters. I'll conceded that ERod getting Covid wasn't in their plans, but Sale was having serious elbow problems last year and they only succeeded in kicking the can down the road by holding off on him having TJ surgery. They can't claim they were blindsided by that one, and yet there was no contingency plan in place. Shame on Chaim Bloom for that one.
It's never fun to watch a team flail. However, Sale, E-Rod, Eovaldi, Perez, and x is a good rotation. Depth is always nice, but Eovaldi, Perez, and x, x, x, can't be easily overcome. So it becomes a question of traumatizing your AA and AAA starters against MLB lineups, or just gritting your teeth and getting through a 1/3rd plague season without trading the farm to compete during bizarro time. Personally, I'm fine with them taking a longer view.

Also, Kudos on the bolded. You may be the first person to ever make that argument. James Loney, free agent to be, who provided 30 games of a .574 OPS. Void filled, Kyle Hart! Take that!
 

BaseballJones

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It's like people still don't get why they traded away Betts. Anyone who thinks that they did so in order to be bad is insane. They had tried to re-sign him to a huge contract. Betts turned it down, reportedly asking for more than $400 million - money the Red Sox simply did not have if they wanted to stay under the luxury tax (at least to avoid the worst penalties of being over), which ALL TEAMS DO. Betts, moreover, said the whole time, never once deviating or hinting otherwise, that that he wanted to go to free agency. So the Sox had a choice. Hang onto him for one more season and be way over the luxury tax and then probably lose him for nothing, since they couldn't have signed him at his asking price if they were over the luxury tax in 2020.... OR trade him, get under the luxury tax, and free up enough money to maybe be able to re-sign him at huge dollars. The ONLY way to have Betts on Boston's roster in 2021 and beyond was to get under the luxury tax in 2020, and that meant dealing him and Price.

Of course Covid comes, ruins everything, and now because the entire world is different, Mookie took a contract less than what he was asking for last year. Oh well, I don't think this was in anyone's predictive model.

But the Sox are suffering through a Covid-plagued 60-game season in front of no fans with weird rules. If EVER there was a year to suck, this is it.

Get Sale and ERod healthy, get the season to Sept 1 so they clear the luxury tax, use the freed-up money to rebuild, advance your key prospects, and be ready to compete in 2021 and beyond. That would make for a hugely successful 2020 campaign, despite what we're seeing on the field right now.
 

Minneapolis Millers

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I always thought of James Loney as a poor man’s John Olerud. But I looked at his stats not long ago in conjunction with a review of the Punto deal. Career fWAR for Loney? 6.8. You know who has more? Martin Perez.

Not getting back a “serviceable” pitcher at the James Loney level of value in the Betts/Price deal was not any part of the team’s current problems.
 

MeddlePAL

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but Sale was having serious elbow problems last year and they only succeeded in kicking the can down the road by holding off on him having TJ surgery. They can't claim they were blindsided by that one, and yet there was no contingency plan in place. Shame on Chaim Bloom for that one.
Im pretty sure its up to the player to decide what medical procedures are performed on their body. Blame Sale if you want but this is not the teams fault IMO.

The rest of your post is silly. This season is totally lost. Tank hard and tank fast. Clear the September 1 date and look to secure the #1 overall
 

geoflin

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Kyle Hart is staring today. Kyle Hart. Who's Kyle Hart??? I'm sure Mr. & Mrs. Hart are proud of their son, but seriously. Is Red Sox management giving up even the appearance of trying? The Sox traded away a generational talent to the Dodgers, included their #3 starter in the deal, and got NO pitching in return. Not even an MLB replacement caliber arm. At least when they traded away Adrian Gonzalez in the Punto trade they got a serviceable major league first basemen in James Loney to fill the void. And I don't want to hear about how the poor Red Sox lost their #1 & #2 starters. I'll conceded that ERod getting Covid wasn't in their plans, but Sale was having serious elbow problems last year and they only succeeded in kicking the can down the road by holding off on him having TJ surgery. They can't claim they were blindsided by that one, and yet there was no contingency plan in place. Shame on Chaim Bloom for that one.
Chad Jennings of The Athletic on Kyle Hart (behind paywall)
 

greek_gawd_of_walks

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Kyle Hart is staring today. Kyle Hart. Who's Kyle Hart???
Kyle Hart is someone no one knows about aside from his minor league track record and reports of an average pitching arsenal. In a 2020 season that looks more and more like a foot long shit sandwich, I for one, am embracing the unknown that is the debut of Hart. Of everyone one who has made a start for this team this year, it's hard to feel terribly cheated or wronged by this. Maybe Hart can give them four/ five innings and two or three runs today, pitch another adequate start after that and make the most of his opportunity, possibly providing some stability to the rotation (best case). If not, it's not as if I haven't watched guys like Weber and Godley shit themselves before. What's one more defecation in a season as bastardized and fucked as 2020?

There can be no real downside where there is no upside.
 
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Rovin Romine

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Kyle Hart is someone no one knows about aside from his minor league track record and reports of an average pitching arsenal. In a 2020 season that looks more and more like a foot long shit sandwich, I for one, am embracing the unknown that is the debut of Hart. Of everyone one who has made a start for this team this year, it's hard to feel terribly cheated or wronged by this. Maybe Hart can give them four/ five innings and two or three runs today, pitch another adequate start after that and make the most of his opportunity, possibly providing some stability to the rotation (best case). If not, it's not as if I haven't watched guys like Weber and Godley shit themselves before. What's one more defecation in a season as bastardized and fucked as 2020?

There can be no real downside where there is no upside.
Agreed.

Here's his page at sox prospects: https://soxprospects.com/players/hart-kyle.htm

Summation: Tough on left-handed hitters. Excelllent pitchability, really works his five-pitch mix well. Solid command and control. Will likely struggle to get major league hitters out with his high-80s fastball. Plays all of his secondaries off of his four-seamer. Profiles as an emergency depth starter that spends most of his career at Triple-A. Wouldn't be surprising if he had a run in the majors if given an opportunity.
Seems like he was slotted below Brian Johnson in terms of his potential, but his minor league numbers are as good as Johnson's. Yeah, I get it may not play for ML hitters, but it's not nothing.

 

BaseballJones

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It's crazy how 88 mph is way below average MLB velocity. You know how hard 88 mph is? It's really freaking fast. It's on you as a hitter like *that*. Of course, when you're used to 95, 88 is nothing. But for us mere mortals, an 88 mph fastball is like lightning.

It's just funny how good these guys really are. Even the "bad" players at this level are just unbelievably good at baseball.
 

E5 Yaz

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The concept that a bad season is unacceptable and that management should be "blamed" or have their jobs in jeopardy simply points out what an entitled lot of crybaby fans the Sox success has spawned.
 

greek_gawd_of_walks

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Boy, they are really trying to Proctor this guy TBD.

I kinda want to see Houck (though getting lit up at NY is a tough way to potentially start your career) and Mazza to start two of them. Maybe Perez in the finale.
 

jon abbey

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Was it ever definitively decided that the 2021 draft order would be based solely on 2020 regular season record? At one point they were discussing somehow combining 2019 and 2020 but that was before the 2020 season was agreed on, and I couldn't find a good answer when I looked the other day.
To answer my own question, it seems like it has not been decided yet according to the last Q and A in this column: