Red Sox in season discussion

Cesar Crespo

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Dec 22, 2002
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Even if it were a thing,, who is going to choose to hamstring the Red Sox in favor of the Penguins? Sound business plan there.
 

Yo La Tengo

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Nov 21, 2005
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I'm seeing that Stroman got a 3 year $71 million dollar deal, with a player opt out after the second year.

I think there is a very good chance he meets/exceeds the value of that contract. I'm more enthusiastic than most about Wacha/Paxton/Hill, mostly because it will hopefully keep Houck and Whitlock in the pen, but I'm wondering if the Sox offered to beat that deal for Stroman.
 

chawson

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Aug 1, 2006
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Is the Cora-Correa connection worth thinking that there might be a match there?
I’d think so. It may also have something to do with why the Sox exercised their club options on Cora earlier than they needed to. Seems like something they’d do anyway, but maybe that assurance means something to Correa.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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Jan 13, 2021
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It’s nice that he likes Cora, but it’s going to come down to $$$. Correa should get more than Seagar, right? What are we talking here, 10–12 years at 35 per?

Assuming you land a guy like this it has to be at the expense of extending at least one of Bogaerts or Devers in the future, right? So what would you do?

Have a trade lined up for one of those guys (Bogaerts and Groome to the ChiSox for Magglio Ordonez?) Or just jam it all together for a year and GFIN and worry about next year, next year?

You know me, I’m skeptical of any real interest here, I’m trying to understand how such a move would logistically work. Made even more challenging considering that the teams best prospects play SS, 2b, and 3b.
 
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Minneapolis Millers

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Jul 15, 2005
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...Have a trade lined up for one of those guys (Bogaerts and Groome to the ChiSox for Magglio Ordonez?) Or just jam it all together for a year and GFIN and worry about next year, next year?
I wasn't crazy about Ordonez in '04 and I'm still not in love with the guy. Maybe if we could get Acuna. I mean, the Braves don't really need him, right??

More on point. I realize Correa is really good, and more well-rounded than X. But... I just don't want to pay $30M+ per year for that guy, only to bump X out, for whom I have an irrational amount of love. Can't we just shore up the right side of our infield defense and go from there??
 

Apisith

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Oct 19, 2007
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2021:
Pitcher Innings
Eovaldi 182.1
Rodriguez 157.2
Pivetta 155
Richards 136.2
Perez 114
Houck 69
Total 814.2


2019:
Pitcher Innings
Rodriguez 203.1
Porcello 174.1
Sale 147.1
Price 107.1
Eovaldi 67.2
Total 700


2018:
Pitcher Innings
Porcello 191.1
Price 176
Sale 158
Rodriguez 129.2
Eovaldi 54
Total 709


2017:
Pitcher Innings
Sale 214.1
Porcello 203.1
Pomeranz 173.2
Rodriguez 137.1
Fister 90.1
Price 74.2
Total 893.2


In the last 4 full seasons, we've gotten around 700-900 innings from our healthiest 5-6 pitchers. If you include depth starters and guys coming back from injury (like Sale in 2021), starters usually provide us with around 850-900 innings.

Conservatively projecting 2022:
Pitcher Innings
Eovaldi ~160
Sale ~140
Pivetta ~140
Wacha ~120
Houck ~140
Hill ~120
Whitlock ~120
Total 840


This doesn't include Paxton coming back and Crawford and Seabold as spot starters. I don't think it's too bad a rotation. There's upside if Whitlock and Houck are good.

Time to move on to the bullpen now IMO.
 

scottyno

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Dec 7, 2008
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If they don't think they're one big piece away from being one of the 3-4 best teams in the league (which realistically they probably aren't right now) then doing what they're doing makes a ton of sense, keep rebuilding the farm system and sign a bunch of low risk potential decent to high upside guys.

If you hit on some of those guys then you could get a 2021 like run, it's baseball, if you make the playoffs you can win a ring, and if you don't hit on them then you haven't hurt the future at all.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Dec 22, 2002
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If they don't think they're one big piece away from being one of the 3-4 best teams in the league (which realistically they probably aren't right now) then doing what they're doing makes a ton of sense, keep rebuilding the farm system and sign a bunch of low risk potential decent to high upside guys.

If you hit on some of those guys then you could get a 2021 like run, it's baseball, if you make the playoffs you can win a ring, and if you don't hit on them then you haven't hurt the future at all.
And then you can trade them in the offseason for a haul.
 

amRadio

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Feb 7, 2019
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That sounds.... uninspiring. I can't believe this is their plan for the offseason coming off of an LCS berth. A two game over performance of your Pythagorean record is nothing. They should be more bullish.
 

Lose Remerswaal

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That sounds.... uninspiring. I can't believe this is their plan for the offseason coming off of an LCS berth. A two game over performance of your Pythagorean record is nothing. They should be more bullish.
Do you honestly think Bloom is laying out his entire plan in public?

He isn't some sort of Batman villain

"first I'm going to put you on this table saw, and the saw will slice you in half, then you will be fed to my pet sharks"
 

shaggydog2000

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Do you honestly think Bloom is laying out his entire plan in public?

He isn't some sort of Batman villain

"first I'm going to put you on this table saw, and the saw will slice you in half, then you will be fed to my pet sharks"
We don't need him to explain everything, I've put all of the clues he's laid out into the giant computer in my basement cave/lair and it's figuring out what moves he's going to make next as we speak. A lot of flashing lights and beeping noises in the mean time.
 

joe dokes

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Jul 18, 2005
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That sounds.... uninspiring. I can't believe this is their plan for the offseason coming off of an LCS berth. A two game over performance of your Pythagorean record is nothing. They should be more bullish.
Nobody on Earth sounds more uninspiring when speaking publicly about what he's doing than the Patriots' GM.
 

amRadio

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Feb 7, 2019
798
Fair enough. I'm feeling a little jilted by the Paxton and JBJ moves simply because they eat up too much of the room left under the tax (CBA pending, I get it) and don't seem like very competitive moves for 2022. Trading a 2 win player for a -1 win player and prospects plus signing a pitcher who won't get on a mound until July aren't moves for 2022. They're not bad ideas, I just thought the agenda would be different. I guess other shoes could drop after the lock out, and I guess it remains to be seen whether they're willing to exceed the tax this year.

I like E-rod and Stroman's contracts though. They're productive pitchers and those are reasonable deals.
 

Lose Remerswaal

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Fair enough. I'm feeling a little jilted by the Paxton and JBJ moves simply because they eat up too much of the room left under the tax (CBA pending, I get it) and don't seem like very competitive moves for 2022. Trading a 2 win player for a -1 win player and prospects plus signing a pitcher who won't get on a mound until July aren't moves for 2022. They're not bad ideas, I just thought the agenda would be different. I guess other shoes could drop after the lock out, and I guess it remains to be seen whether they're willing to exceed the tax this year.

I like E-rod and Stroman's contracts though. They're productive pitchers and those are reasonable deals.
It is December 2nd. The World Series ended 30 days ago. There are 4 months (almost) until Opening Day (assuming). Patience!

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wAlQf4WdiE
 

chawson

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Aug 1, 2006
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Besides Schwarber, Correa or Story, a guy who would look pretty good on this roster right now is Chad Pinder. He’s every bit the lefty masher than Renfroe was and is an adequate defender anywhere on the field.

Like Kiké or Chris Taylor, he seems like one of those guys that was prematurely determined to be a platoon guy, but can learn to hold his own against right-handed pitching. Good pop, hits the ball really hard (10.7 barrels per PA in ‘21 js tied with Vlad Guerrero), and his stats have been suppressed a bit playing in Oakland (102 wRC+ career away from the Coliseum vs. 93 wRC+ at home).
 

nvalvo

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Jul 16, 2005
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Fair enough. I'm feeling a little jilted by the Paxton and JBJ moves simply because they eat up too much of the room left under the tax (CBA pending, I get it) and don't seem like very competitive moves for 2022. Trading a 2 win player for a -1 win player and prospects plus signing a pitcher who won't get on a mound until July aren't moves for 2022. They're not bad ideas, I just thought the agenda would be different. I guess other shoes could drop after the lock out, and I guess it remains to be seen whether they're willing to exceed the tax this year.

I like E-rod and Stroman's contracts though. They're productive pitchers and those are reasonable deals.
This would be a good year to go over, because we have a lot of money coming off after the season (i.e. Price's $16m in addition to our departing FAs) that would make it relatively easy to dip back under.
 

Rovin Romine

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Besides Schwarber, Correa or Story, a guy who would look pretty good on this roster right now is Chad Pinder. He’s every bit the lefty masher than Renfroe was and is an adequate defender anywhere on the field.

Like Kiké or Chris Taylor, he seems like one of those guys that was prematurely determined to be a platoon guy, but can learn to hold his own against right-handed pitching. Good pop, hits the ball really hard (10.7 barrels per PA in ‘21 js tied with Vlad Guerrero), and his stats have been suppressed a bit playing in Oakland (102 wRC+ career away from the Coliseum vs. 93 wRC+ at home).
You think Bloom's going to do a trade with the A's for a utility man who'll be a FA next year?
 

chawson

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You think Bloom's going to do a trade with the A's for a utility man who'll be a FA next year?
I think the A’s will move a lot of guys, and Pinder will be one of them. I think he has some untapped potential — good Fenway swing and a good fit with our positional flexibility model. Not seeing him as a long-term building block. Maybe he’s part of a larger deal.
 

Manuel Aristides

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Apr 7, 2009
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Constant story in the media, poor social media presence, victim personality.
I'm probably sensitive since I'm two degrees from Marcus but I just could not disagree more. Stroman is an advocate for mental health online and I'm not sure what "victim personality" even means but I'm not aware of any meaningful controversy he's ever had.. he has called out what he sees to be racism a few times seems to be the most controversial opinions he's espoused? He got into a twitter fight with noted humanitarian Trevor Bauer? Toronto and NYC both seem to like Stroman on balance, whereas Kyrie has burned bridges out of two cities and crashed a metaphorical car into a third. It's an unimportant sidetrack to the thread but I just think this is an unfair comparison.
 

Murderer's Crow

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I'm probably sensitive since I'm two degrees from Marcus but I just could not disagree more. Stroman is an advocate for mental health online and I'm not sure what "victim personality" even means but I'm not aware of any meaningful controversy he's ever had.. he has called out what he sees to be racism a few times seems to be the most controversial opinions he's espoused? He got into a twitter fight with noted humanitarian Trevor Bauer? Toronto and NYC both seem to like Stroman on balance, whereas Kyrie has burned bridges out of two cities and crashed a metaphorical car into a third. It's an unimportant sidetrack to the thread but I just think this is an unfair comparison.
He has routinely gotten into twitter arguments with random New York fans, seems to have an issue with the Yankees ever since they didn't trade for him or sign him, and yes, has claimed "racism" too often. For example, he essentially called Michael Kay racist for no good reason. And if you read his tweet, not only is he calling Kay a racist, he's qualifying it twice by saying "I believe" because he doesn't actually want to put in enough time to double check before making a claim like that.

If you're in NY, Stroman has been a constant "what did he say today" kind of player.

View: https://twitter.com/STR0/status/1432425511251218438?s=20
 

Dustin the Wind

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He has routinely gotten into twitter arguments with random New York fans, seems to have an issue with the Yankees ever since they didn't trade for him or sign him, and yes, has claimed "racism" too often. For example, he essentially called Michael Kay racist for no good reason. And if you read his tweet, not only is he calling Kay a racist, he's qualifying it twice by saying "I believe" because he doesn't actually want to put in enough time to double check before making a claim like that.

If you're in NY, Stroman has been a constant "what did he say today" kind of player.

View: https://twitter.com/STR0/status/1432425511251218438?s=20
I don’t comment that often on here because the minds we have on SOSH are immeasurably beyond mine, but man, I just couldn’t disagree with you more. Political stances aside, and I can’t assume your race, but who are we as a society to tell a Black man how “often” they can “play the race card?” He is always standing up for BIPOC people, and as Manny mentioned, making mental health his main talking point. We have members of the Redsox saying actual problematic things (Ryan Braiser for example) but we dodged a bullet with Stroman, by all measures a significant upgrade to our rotation because of this? I just think this is a poor take. I don’t even follow him on Twitter, and I wouldn’t see most of things he says if it weren’t for tabloid type posts anyway. We can argue that the money and fit weren’t there because of his pitching, but I disagree that it’s his personality.

Also:

View: https://twitter.com/kpillar4/status/1466246442066997255?s=21
 

chawson

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Would have maybe solved catching for a couple more years down the road. Oh well.

There's also this: "They are also reporting the Marlins are in on Schwarber and his asking price is around 3/$60M. "

View: https://twitter.com/redsoxstats/status/1466500187594104836
3/$60 is a great price for Schwarber. Knock on wood but I can’t imagine he’d want to play in Miami over Boston, given all he’s said in his time here.

Another thing that says to me is that JDM will have trade suitors. He’d be a good consolation prize for the Marlins actually if they universalize the DH.
 

Bosoxian

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Aug 17, 2021
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Thé Sox seemed to be in need of a left handed bat, and trading Renfroe for Bradley doesn’t address that. Schwarber still fits but I think they still need another rf right handed bat
 

BaseballJones

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Oct 1, 2015
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So as of now....

C - Vaz
1b - Dalbec
2b - Arroyo (?)
3b - Devers
SS - Xander
LF - Verdugo
CF - Kiké
RF - JBJ (?)
DH - JDM
Bench - Plawecki, Duran, Arauz...who else?

SP - Eovaldi, Sale, Hill, Wacha, Pivetta (Paxton maybe for the stretch run?)
RP - Houck, Whitlock, Barnes, Sawamura, Taylor, Hernandez, Davis, Brasier

With an improved farm system. This about right at the moment?