Red Sox in season discussion
- Thread starter Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat
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Let's not forget another means for acquiring and signing players. The Red Sox just participated in the third MLB draft of Bloom's short tenure. There are possible returns there that may well turn out to be blue chip players and all star caliber players who are healthy and in their prime while wearing a Boston uniform. That's yet to be determined and it may take a bit longer to develop some of these players due to the fact that the 2020 college and minor league seasons were wiped out.
Sale was a free agent after 2019, they couldn't wait to see how he did in 2019 and then offer an extension, at that point he'd be listening to offers from every team. They took a calculated risk, because if he'd had a repeat of 2017/2018 in 2019 he would have got a lot more than they extended him for. The Sox will also never admit it, but at the time they extended Sale they probably knew Mookie was likely gone, or at least was going to go to free agency and there wasn't going to be an extension, they tried to extend him before moving on to X and Sale.
Frankly, the role of closer is as important as at least a number 2 starter in my opinion. IMO with a very good closer and 1 excellent setup man the Sox would be in the top wc position. Whitlock is a very inexpensive option for that roll. That's a key due to the sunk cost in Barnes on the books for 2023.
So what type of return can the Sox expect for JD. Good average power numbers are very disappointing. Eovaldi likely fetches something good, Vazquez, I would try to re-sign as he is probably the best we could hope for via free agency or trade and better than anyone who will come up from our farm in at least the next 2 years. I think we ask Bogey what it will take and if we don't want to pay it we trade him. He could fetch quite a bit from a good team. We may be able to bring him back or sign one of the crop of free agents available next year. I would do all I could to trade Trevor Story, but I might wait to see who loses out in the shortstop derby this off season before doing so, but if the right deal came to the Sox by 8/2 I would jump on it. As much as I think the Sox still have a chance, likely not a great chance, but a chance nonetheless to make the expanded playoffs I just do not see them going real far. If all we get are draft picks for Bogey, Eovaldi and maybe JD if we offer him, I think we will regret the decision to stick it out for one or two potential playoff rounds.
I’d be quite happy to make it to the ALCS…. Of course I’d rather not be there at all if it means losing to the MFY’s…. But a competitive ALCS would be okay with me.
Why would you want to trade Story? He's been perfectly fine. I also doubt you're getting much for JD right now since for a DH he's been pretty bad for almost the last 2 months.
I doubt the Sox would get much but I also wouldn’t be shocked if a few teams saw adding his potential as the missing piece. He could end his career back in Houston.
The Marlins? Minnesota?
Edit- I meant to add “and bidding his trade value up to a top ten prospect “
“On July 18, 2017, the Tigers traded Martinez to the Arizona Diamondbacks for Dawel Lugo, Sergio Alcántara, and Jose King.”
What a haul! I’m fine with keeping him
Yeah you’re right. About the only thing that actually returns a haul is pitching. Eovaldi is probably a tier below the “haul” tier
Phillies called up a rookie to DH that's crushing the ball so far, and also have Schwarber who probably shouldn't be playing the field. I don't think they need another guy who can't play the field.
Darick Hall had a nice first handful of games but he’s 7 for his last 32 with a very bad K/BB rate and doesn’t play at all against lefties. He’s not a prospect. But you’re right that that team is a ridiculous stew of DHs.
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The good news is, if the Phillies realized that picking up another DH type would be stupid, they wouldn't have that many in the first place.
He's going to waive it to go to a playoff team, then hit FA without draft compensation.
Ort and Darwinzon live to see another day. So I guess 2b/3b is now covered by a mix of Downs, Dalbec, and Sanchez. JFC.
Well, when you start with Devers and Story, with Arroyo and Kike' in reserve, you aren't anticipating all four to go down to injury
Why do we think he will want to uproot his life for a few months and then hit the market? To help out the Sox? He already has won 2 World Series, so he's less likely to ring chase, and maybe he and Boras are concerned about a terrible playoff slump hurting his value.
I'm not sure it's a foregone conclusion he waives the NTC
Because hitting free agency without draft pick compensation helps him out with free agency. Further I don't think there are many mlb players who think I have x number of rings. I don't want anymore.
I don’t think players think like that - what if I have a horrible slump- but for two months, would you rather be in a playoff race or not? If he’s at the point where he’s sick of the organization and realizes he’s gone (not saying he is), I imagine he may be happy to get out of town asap. In these situations, don’t players usually waive the NTC? A chance at postseason money and losing draft pick compensation are incentives too.
I think the Sox should make one last ditch effort to extend him. I could also seen them keeping him around; dumping him at the deadline isn’t a great PR move, frankly.
Presumably they did an MRI on his thigh and he has some degree of hamstring strain, though when I hear of people having back pain and then shortly thereafter hamstring issues you wonder if it's all really the same thing.
Either way, that might be the final nail in the coffin for the season.
It just might be indeed. I think they should sell, now, and sell hard. Everyone avail on ML squad except Devers, Houck, and Whitlock. Bloom's nibbling approach ain't working. Time for a major reset, a la Cubs leading to 2016 and White Sox a few years ago. Just let it rip. Live through a couple losing seasons in the hopes of building the next great core. Supplement with FA when the time is right. Maybe this was his plan all along ...but damn, we had to live through 3 years of purgatory before it was implemented.
2 wins from the world series last year is an interesting definition of purgatory
We have a glut of young arms who might be/become good major leaguers in the upper levels of the minors right now... The team needs to evaluate then against MLB hitters. We have a decent supply of position players in the upper minors as well. If we trade every veteran player who can get us even a lottery ticket or two and then try to package for players who might make up that next core, we might have acquired the perfect combination of cheap, quality talent to pair with the big money free agents we'll be signing over the next off seasons.
Even guys like Davis might get a tiny chip used to sweeten a bigger deal to get somebody else's young player about to hit arbitration or a high minors guy with big potential blocked by a current young major leaguers.
I'm all for selling hard. We'll see what we have among the young guys for 60 games, and improve our draft position for next summer at the same time.
Even guys like Davis might get a tiny chip used to sweeten a bigger deal to get somebody else's young player about to hit arbitration or a high minors guy with big potential blocked by a current young major leaguers.
I'm all for selling hard. We'll see what we have among the young guys for 60 games, and improve our draft position for next summer at the same time.
Right? I mean, they were an inning from going up 3-1 to Houston in the ALCS, for crying out loud. This year has been a disappointment for sure but a ton of things have gone wrong. And they’re still in the mix for the playoffs, even after all this.
All while considerably improving the entire organization. This is what a rebuild looks like when you’re the Red Sox instead of the Royals. They are already building their next great core, but they're doing it while still being competitive.
We're now 9 days from the trading deadline and while there is plenty of baseball left to play with a WC birth well in reach, the team is struggling mightily and close to 1/2 of the ideal 26 man roster is on the IL with few if any coming back before the deadline. With each loss the idea of moving players who might contribute elsewhere looks more likely. If it hasn't been done already, I think it's time to have a discussion with Bogaerts about both his immediate and long term futures. See what it takes to extend him, see what teams he would be willing to be traded to and ask about his willingness to consider coming back if traded a la Aroldis Chapman. ATM he's the most valuable asset on the team that could be moved to a contender. Depending on what additional needs the other team might have, perhaps there is a deal that could land a cost controlled MLB ready player that can fill a need on the Sox roster.
Agree on all, but you wonder if last year was a bit of Fool’s Gold. They overachieved and might have set up some unrealistic expectations this year.
This seems rational, yet the venting we've witnessed the past two weeks would seem to indicate this view is not widespread
That's the narrative - but I have yet to see anyone remotely justify that. In reality, their win total reflected the talent on that club, strong beginning, August lag, and strong end.
Not only regular season; they probably had no business beating the Rays but were hot at the right time. Winning two playoff rounds has more to do with setting up expectations, particularly to casual fans who start watching late September.
I can only recommend you make an effort to watch both the regular and post season - it's well worth it. The Sox played a spirited series against the Rays, with a single convincing win for each, and a pair of tight games. The key contributors for the Sox (on both sides of the ball) were the same key contributors throughout the regular season.
(PS - the Rays finished the season 3-3 v HOU and NYY. It's not like they were some kind of team of destiny the Sox somehow managed to get lucky against.)
I’m not sure how they overachieved. Their playoff run was better than their playoff seeding but they were a good team last year.
Exactly this. Often when people say “You are what your record says you are” I think they mean it as a slight, usually to point out that a team with a mediocre record is a mediocre team.
But the inverse is true, as well. There’s no need for us to retroactively denigrate the fact that the 2021 Red Sox were two wins from the World Series after touching up Cole in a one game playoff and taking it to a 100 win Rays team convincingly.
I agree with this. It's not unlike the 2013 team. They didn't over-achieve that season, they were a very good team. However, they were also a franchise in transition from one "core" to the next that very much caught lightning in a bottle when pretty much every single acquisition they made worked out incredibly well. That set a bar for the following couple seasons that was difficult, maybe impossible to clear given what they were trying to do from a long term perspective. Obviously we don't know where they're going in the near future, but we might find it looks very similar in retrospect when we're a few years down the road (though I really hope the similarities don't include back to back last place finishes this time around).
Me neither but a last place finish could mean a record above .500 and in the WC hunt the entire season. Could be missing the playoffs by a game.
Except what we've been seeing for a considerable length of time now doesn't bode well for a .500 finish one way (keeping people around and making no significant additions) or the other (fire sale).
That's fair. But it's going to be a possibility in future seasons too if the Orioles happen to be good.
Two players with an OPS+ of 100 or greater in todays lineup; both are free agents after the season. 0 starters with a 100 or better ERA+ signed past this year. So, I struggle with “the future is bright, great core” stuff; there’s a ton of work to do. What AL East team would you take the Sox core over? Most of the core is living on other teams rosters, hoping to be acquired in the off-season.
Last year was great, this year is meh, next year seems TBD with short term success reliant on the team having a great off-season.
Last year was great, this year is meh, next year seems TBD with short term success reliant on the team having a great off-season.
Today's lineup? Signed last year? This is peak SOSH bullshit argumentation.
Why not actually look at the players in the org who will be here next year and assess that?
Or he might want to try to read the post. Its not referring to signed last year. Its signed past this year.
There's pretty valid reasons to be concerned about the long term talent pool.