Red Sox in season discussion

Red(s)HawksFan

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Yes but finding a LF is a little easier than a RF suited for Fenway.



I understand trades need to make sense for both teams - and I must confess to start I really have no idea what Pittsburgh needs or wants so my putting together a scenario would be lacking right out of the gate. I said I would start with Verdugo as he's a fairly valuable player that would play right away for them in the outfield and then add from there to make it happen. I'm not married to any of our particular young players when it comes to going after a proven guy coming into his prime years at a need position and with control. I'm not saying break the bank but I am saying we should be aggressive for the right guy. Reynolds could be that guy. He's already what we hope many of our best prospects will be so it's worth pursuing from my view.
Bottom line is the Pirates aren't in any hurry to be rid of Reynolds so it would most likely take a massive overpay to get them interested. Even if you want to make it purely about money and the Pirates unloading what will likely be their second biggest salary in 2022 (he's getting somewhere between $4.25M and $4.9M in arbitration), Verdugo as part of the return doesn't really give them much savings ($3.55M).
 

YTF

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Bottom line is the Pirates aren't in any hurry to be rid of Reynolds so it would most likely take a massive overpay to get them interested. Even if you want to make it purely about money and the Pirates unloading what will likely be their second biggest salary in 2022 (he's getting somewhere between $4.25M and $4.9M in arbitration), Verdugo as part of the return doesn't really give them much savings ($3.55M).
This is the issue. Everyone has a price, but the Sox farm isn't deep enough make Pittsburgh an offer that they can't refuse and with a team payroll of 24.1M, the Pirates don't even have a highly paid guy that the Sox could offer to take back for payroll relief.
 

Mighty Joe Young

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This is the issue. Everyone has a price, but the Sox farm isn't deep enough make Pittsburgh an offer that they can't refuse and with a team payroll of 24.1M, the Pirates don't even have a highly paid guy that the Sox could offer to take back for payroll relief.
24m ???? That’s mind boggling. Example AAA of why revenue sharing is a bogus concept. They should tie it to a formula that includes team payroll and not just market size.You want those sweet free bucks from the pool? You have to spend it on players.
 

YTF

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24m ???? That’s mind boggling. Example AAA of why revenue sharing is a bogus concept. They should tie it to a formula that includes team payroll and not just market size.You want those sweet free bucks from the pool? You have to spend it on players.
Clarification, the 24.1M is their active payroll. Catcher Roberto Perez is their highest paid player at 5M followed by Reynolds at 4.5M. Felipe Vazquez (convicted of sexual assault) has 10M designated as "restricted" and Gregory Polanco has 3M designated as "retained". I'm not 100% on how that is all reconciled, but even if Vazquez and Polanco are added in you're looking at a total of 37.1M with 26.4% of that assigned to a guy in prison.

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/pittsburgh-pirates/payroll/
 

jon abbey

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And that’s still not right, it doesn’t factor in the 700K or so for each pre-arb player on the roster.
 

jon abbey

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Red Sox designated OF Jeisson Rosario for assignment.
NY picked him up with their open 40 man spot, interesting. They already have one 40 man spot occupied by an OF who is too far away to contribute (Pereira) so I think other moves are coming.
 

jon abbey

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Maybe they think they're getting their own little Whitlock...
Whitlock was a rule 5 pick so he had to stay on the 26 man roster all season, so BOS had to give him a shot no matter how capable he was (and learning a new pitch in spring training made him quite capable). This is almost certainly Cashman playing games with his final 40 man roster spot in the time before the season starts, I wouldn't be surprised if he has already tried to pass Rosario back through waivers (this is what they did last week with Aybar, and the White Sox claimed him, hence the open 40 man spot).
 

TapeAndPosts

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I saw a little speculation Duran might be our starting RF, but now he's bound for Woostah. Buckle up, it's JBJ time.
 

normstalls

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This also probably means f'ing Refsnider is going to make the team.
I was thinking the same and annoyed by it. That guy brings nothing of value to the team. Honestly, I think I’d rather have a third catcher on the April roster.
 

chawson

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Good piece about Refsnyder synching up with the Sox in the Athletic.

Bloom knew RR from the Rays 2018 season, told him they were planning to sign a big right-handed bat but that there was still an opportunity to make the team. Refsnyder says that Bloom has a reputation of being honest with players about that sort of thing.

Interesting quote:

“We can’t take the uncertainty out of the game,” Bloom said, “but I believe in treating players like I’d want to be treated if I were in their shoes. We all do here. … Depth is so important, but as much as we can, we need to live up to the opportunities that we sell. Everyone knows this is a business, and they know we need to add as many good players as we can and that there will be competition sometimes. But we try to be real about that, too, because if over time the reality keeps falling short of the sales pitch, word will get around, and players will stop choosing you.”
 

Pozo the Clown

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Rob "DFAd in mid-April" Refsnyder
The Refsnyder Era/Error may end sooner than mid-April.

The Sox have Arroyo starting in RF today:

RED SOX LINEUP:

1. RF Christian Arroyo
2. 1B Travis Shaw
3. 3B Bobby Dalbec
4. C Kevin Plawecki
5. LF Christin Stewart
6. CF Rob Refsnyder
7. DH Franchy Cordero
8. 2B Yolmer Sánchez
9. SS Jonathan Araúz

https://www.masslive.com/redsox/2022/03/red-sox-vs-pirates-lineups-live-stream-start-time-tv-channel-how-to-watch-spring-training-baseball.html
 

TimScribble

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Henry Davis was a pretty reasonable number one pick, especially for a team whose minor league system is positively loaded with good young infielders.
Totally agree. Wanted Davis when I thought Mayer was going number one. He was still the cheaper pick but a good one.
 

LostinNJ

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Jul 19, 2005
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Thankful for the cheap Pirates.
That he was cheaper doesn't mean the Pirates were stingy. They took the money they saved on Davis and invested it in the rest of the draft, going above slot for their next three picks. They ended up with a very good haul.
 

TimScribble

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That he was cheaper doesn't mean the Pirates were stingy. They took the money they saved on Davis and invested it in the rest of the draft, going above slot for their next three picks. They ended up with a very good haul.
Semantics. I retract my cheap and replace with save in the first round.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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If there was ever someone who I wanted to head my organization in the first years of a complete and total rebuild, it's Ben Cherrington. That guy has a tremendous eye for talent; not only in his organization and others but at the college and high school level too.

I bet that Pittsburgh is a monster in three or four years.
 

allmanbro

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If there was ever someone who I wanted to head my organization in the first years of a complete and total rebuild, it's Ben Cherrington. That guy has a tremendous eye for talent; not only in his organization and others but at the college and high school level too.

I bet that Pittsburgh is a monster in three or four years.
I hope so. Cherington could make a pretty good career for himself as the rebuilding specialist, moving from team to team. Kind of the anti-Dombrowski.
 

Yaz4Ever

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If there was ever someone who I wanted to head my organization in the first years of a complete and total rebuild, it's Ben Cherrington. That guy has a tremendous eye for talent; not only in his organization and others but at the college and high school level too.

I bet that Pittsburgh is a monster in three or four years.
Anytime a small market team excels, I’m happy. Other than when they play us. Always rooting for a guy like Ben to do well, so it’s a win-win with Pittsburgh improving.
 

allmanbro

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Anytime a small market team excels, I’m happy. Other than when they play us. Always rooting for a guy like Ben to do well, so it’s a win-win with Pittsburgh improving.
Pittsburgh has such great baseball history too. It's been way too long since that team has had any sustained success.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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I hope so. Cherington could make a pretty good career for himself as the rebuilding specialist, moving from team to team. Kind of the anti-Dombrowski.
I always thought that he'd be a great farm director, but I like this idea better. Get the team up and running, fill the minors with prospects and when it comes time to make the leap hire a dude like Dombrowski who's also good at separating the wheat from the chaff so that he can deal the suspects for help while keeping the prospects.

Anytime a small market team excels, I’m happy. Other than when they play us. Always rooting for a guy like Ben to do well, so it’s a win-win with Pittsburgh improving.
PNC is the best park I've ever been to. I hope that Cherington can turn Pittsburgh around.
 

cantor44

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I always thought that he'd be a great farm director, but I like this idea better. Get the team up and running, fill the minors with prospects and when it comes time to make the leap hire a dude like Dombrowski who's also good at separating the wheat from the chaff so that he can deal the suspects for help while keeping the prospects.
My question is - surely there are folks out there who can play both parts: builder and GFIN-er in turn, when appropriate? Who can balance how they attack roster building and trades? Do you gotta be a Cherington OR a Dombrowski? Theo certainly seemed to have that balance. Maybe Bloom does, too, indicated by the Story signing (let's see if he uses a chip or two to improve the pitching) ...
 

Rovin Romine

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If there was ever someone who I wanted to head my organization in the first years of a complete and total rebuild, it's Ben Cherrington. That guy has a tremendous eye for talent; not only in his organization and others but at the college and high school level too.

I bet that Pittsburgh is a monster in three or four years.
2012, Devin Marrero (24th), Brian Johnson (31st), Pat Light (37th)
2013, Trey Ball (7th)
2014, Michael Chavis (26th), Michael Kopech (33rd)
2015, Andrew Benintendi (7th)
2016, Jay Groome (12th)

To be fair, he signed Devers and Darwinzon in 2013-4, so I'm willing to credit him that. And a year later Moncada and, unfortunately, Castillio.

In terms of MLB trades for players or prospects, there was the Punto trade - glorious in terms of cash for subsequent free agents, but we really didn't get a single good player out of it. There were more workman like trades of Boston prospects for Porcello and Miley and Kimbrel and Sale, and shipping out various vets at trade deadlines. If we're on that particular bus though, we did send a lot of value out of the org for players like Carson Smith and Tyler Thornberg. I'm not saying those were bad trades at the moment, and luck is a factor. But it's not like the results of trading for major leaguers were unmixed.

Looking at the trades from late 2011 to 2016, I really don't see one where a significant "under the radar" younger minor league player was acquired - which you'd think would be the case if he had a lot of talent insight. Two exceptions might be
Miller for E-Rod trade in 2014. . .but IIRC E-Rod was highly regarded at the time. And cash for Sandy Leon in 2015 - that turned out great, so I'll spot him that one as a talent spot.

What Cherrington *did* do was hold onto the 2011 draft class, and not trade off many excellent players. (Barnes, JBJ, Betts, Shaw) That's a skill, and he should get credit for that.

His FA signings were a mixed bag - 2013 was an absolutely great pick up of FAs for good prices. But then, Castillo, Sandoval, H-Ram, Price. . .those did not work out well.

Overall, I'm just not seeing tremendousness here. Devers and Moncada are great gets, but if he had an eye for talent, I'd honestly expect more eventual ML over 4 years. Sure, propsects are lottery tickets and all that, but. . .there's not a ton there.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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2012, Devin Marrero (24th), Brian Johnson (31st), Pat Light (37th)
2013, Trey Ball (7th)
2014, Michael Chavis (26th), Michael Kopech (33rd)
2015, Andrew Benintendi (7th)
2016, Jay Groome (12th)

To be fair, he signed Devers and Darwinzon in 2013-4, so I'm willing to credit him that. And a year later Moncada and, unfortunately, Castillio.

In terms of MLB trades for players or prospects, there was the Punto trade - glorious in terms of cash for subsequent free agents, but we really didn't get a single good player out of it. There were more workman like trades of Boston prospects for Porcello and Miley and Kimbrel and Sale, and shipping out various vets at trade deadlines. If we're on that particular bus though, we did send a lot of value out of the org for players like Carson Smith and Tyler Thornberg. I'm not saying those were bad trades at the moment, and luck is a factor. But it's not like the results of trading for major leaguers were unmixed.

Looking at the trades from late 2011 to 2016, I really don't see one where a significant "under the radar" younger minor league player was acquired - which you'd think would be the case if he had a lot of talent insight. Two exceptions might be
Miller for E-Rod trade in 2014. . .but IIRC E-Rod was highly regarded at the time. And cash for Sandy Leon in 2015 - that turned out great, so I'll spot him that one as a talent spot.

What Cherrington *did* do was hold onto the 2011 draft class, and not trade off many excellent players. (Barnes, JBJ, Betts, Shaw) That's a skill, and he should get credit for that.

His FA signings were a mixed bag - 2013 was an absolutely great pick up of FAs for good prices. But then, Castillo, Sandoval, H-Ram, Price. . .those did not work out well.

Overall, I'm just not seeing tremendousness here. Devers and Moncada are great gets, but if he had an eye for talent, I'd honestly expect more eventual ML over 4 years. Sure, propsects are lottery tickets and all that, but. . .there's not a ton there.
Huh. I thought he was better than that.