Red Sox in season discussion

Rasputin

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Does this mean Christian Arroyo is going to play right field?

'Cause that seems, you know, dubious.
 

JM3

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The apologists sometimes frustrate me.

Of course the season isn’t over. Of course there will be opportunities to upgrade. And our current roster may overperform. And high priced additions and bloated payrolls don’t always pay off.

But that doesn’t mean it isn’t ok to be concerned or frustrated that the team seems much farther to having a playoff caliber team than it’s division rivals. I would far prefer to have added an offensive threat to play RF … and know that we may be able to further upgrade at the deadline, than have that gaping hole that we have to hope to survive until then. Or I would much rather have added one of the consensus best players available, rather than pick up whoever is left over at the back end of free agency and hope it works out.

It is what it is, hopefully it will work out, but can we back off the self righteous indignation and stop acting like we are all smarter than the folks who are disappointed by the lack of movement?

EDIT- And of course as soon as I write that we sign Story.
I can't speak for others, but I don't think I'm smarter than anyone - I do think Bloom is better informed & more able to make the appropriate moves than me or anyone else on this board, though.

That has definitely not always been the case, but as the Raysification of baseball gets smarter & blackboxier, I have moved from concern over almost everything to a process of trust, & it's a nice feeling. Made much easier by the 4 titles.
 

Dduncan6er

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Has there been sufficient whining about Story's home/Road splits, or is that not a worry with his right handed bat at Fenway? Remember Troy Tulowitzki in the AL.
I think there’s been research that shows Rockies players suffer on the road due to the effect the altitude has on breaking pitches. I believe they suffer more on the road more than they benefit from the altitude at home.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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I think there’s been research that shows Rockies players suffer on the road due to the effect the altitude has on breaking pitches. I believe they suffer more on the road more than they benefit from the altitude at home.
A little bit that, and a little bit that the rest of their division (so close to half their road games) is housed in ballparks that suppress offense a bit more than Coors does.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Their second pick in the second round. They got a compensation pick for not signing Fabian plus their regular pick. They lose the regular pick for Story.
 

chawson

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At this point are we over the tax? If so, do we splash the pot and sign Conforto?
I think we’re at $220M, so not over the first tax threshold of $232. Not should we worry about it since there are no non-monetary penalties and we’re certainly dipping under again next year when a ton of money comes off the books.

FWIW, Conforto and Pham have each been expressive against the vaccine as of last year. (Both also got covid and had bad years). Maybe they’ve changed their tune, but it could be why their markets haven’t taken shape.
 

bosockboy

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I think we’re at $220M, so not over the first tax threshold of $232. Not should we worry about it since there are no non-monetary penalties and we’re certainly dipping under again next year when a ton of money comes off the books.

FWIW, Conforto and Pham have each been expressive against the vaccine as of last year. (Both also got covid and had bad years). Maybe they’ve changed their tune, but it could be why their markets haven’t taken shape.
Good nugget. With the Toronto regulations I’d steer clear of Conforto if unvaccinated. Pham you can get around.
 

Van Everyman

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The apologists sometimes frustrate me.

Of course the season isn’t over. Of course there will be opportunities to upgrade. And our current roster may overperform. And high priced additions and bloated payrolls don’t always pay off.

But that doesn’t mean it isn’t ok to be concerned or frustrated that the team seems much farther to having a playoff caliber team than it’s division rivals. I would far prefer to have added an offensive threat to play RF … and know that we may be able to further upgrade at the deadline, than have that gaping hole that we have to hope to survive until then. Or I would much rather have added one of the consensus best players available, rather than pick up whoever is left over at the back end of free agency and hope it works out.

It is what it is, hopefully it will work out, but can we back off the self righteous indignation and stop acting like we are all smarter than the folks who are disappointed by the lack of movement?

EDIT- And of course as soon as I write that we sign Story.
Not to be rubbing this in your face now that Story is aboard but this is exactly why it’s silly to fret over the FO based on incomplete offseason activity. Even if they hadn’t signed Story I would imagine Bloom had (or even still has) plans to address needs via trade.

I would also add, this is the second time in less than a calendar year that Bloom got a premium guy at a reasonable price by waiting out the market. That is becoming his MO – and it is a pretty stark contrast to DD who moved early and decisively for his guy. Those moves usually felt good at the time but often meant he paid top dollar in terms of contract (Price) and/or prospects (Kopech/Moncada).

Beyond that tho: this guy got us two games away from the WS last year. Can we maybe acknowledge he knows what he’s doing?
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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I think we’re at $220M, so not over the first tax threshold of $232. Not should we worry about it since there are no non-monetary penalties and we’re certainly dipping under again next year when a ton of money comes off the books.
Cot's has the team at roughly $213M before Story, so it seems his deal would put them at or just over the threshold of $230M.
 

bsj

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Not to be rubbing this in your face now that Story is aboard but this is exactly why it’s silly to fret over the FO based on incomplete offseason activity. Even if they hadn’t signed Story I would imagine Bloom had (or even still has) plans to address needs via trade.

I would also add, this is the second time in less than a calendar year that Bloom got a premium guy at a reasonable price by waiting out the market. That is becoming his MO – and it is a pretty stark contrast to DD who moved early and decisively for his guy. Those moves usually felt good at the time but often meant he paid top dollar in terms of contract (Price) and/or prospects (Kopech/Moncada).

Beyond that tho: this guy got us two games away from the WS last year. Can we maybe acknowledge he knows what he’s doing?
Its cool. I left the post up rather than delete it because I still think it’s relevant. But This was a great get.
 

Yaz4Ever

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Do they try to package JDM with prospects to improve the rotation and free up some CBT money to go after someone like Conforto or Pham or mystery player?

IMHO, priorities now should be signing Xavier and Devers to extensions asap and improving the rotation (hopefully with young cost-controlled players 1-800-Athletics)
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Do they try to package JDM with prospects to improve the rotation and free up some CBT money to go after someone like Conforto or Pham or mystery player?

IMHO, priorities now should be signing Xavier and Devers to extensions asap and improving the rotation (hopefully with young cost-controlled players 1-800-Athletics)
No to trading JDM. No to Conforto. Maybe to Pham. Yes to turning attention to extending Bogaerts and Devers.
 

YTF

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No to trading JDM. No to Conforto. Maybe to Pham. Yes to turning attention to extending Bogaerts and Devers.
I agree with you on JDM. Moving him with the roster as it currently is leaves to big a hole in the lineup. Conforto's bat would be a plus, but he make the OF too left handed. Pham may be the best RH OF option left. Assuming they sign Pham (or another OF) the bench will be Plawecki, Arroyo JBJ and _____________ Perhaps Shaw can win the spot?
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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I agree with you on JDM. Moving him with the roster as it currently is leaves to big a hole in the lineup. Conforto's bat would be a plus, but he make the OF too left handed. Pham may be the best RH OF option left. Assuming they sign Pham (or another OF) the bench will be Plawecki, Arroyo JBJ and _____________ Perhaps Shaw can win the spot?
If Arauz's injury is serious, that fourth spot is definitely up in the air. Shaw I would think has the inside track if only because there's no one else on the roster with 1B experience (except for Arroyo's one disastrous outing, I guess).
 

nvalvo

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I am kind of wondering if the thinking is actually to start Bradley with Duran behind him.

We all know that JBJ was just about the worst player in the league last season, but a typical Boston JBJ season was worth about 2 WAR — or what Renfroe was worth last season.

Maybe with an astonishing amount offense coming from the starting infield, we can carry a glove-first outfielder and hope that Duran takes a step forward? And then add at the deadline if JBJ has a terrible first half; if he's hitting decently, no need.
 

YTF

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If Arauz's injury is serious, that fourth spot is definitely up in the air. Shaw I would think has the inside track if only because there's no one else on the roster with 1B experience (except for Arroyo's one disastrous outing, I guess).
Yeah, that's why I was thinking Shaw and FWIW, I'm all for Arroyo picking up the first baseman's in ST and giving it another shot with the opportunity for to learn the position before being pressed into service. I think last year's injury was a fluke that got lumped into the category of Swihart playing LF and Wright pinch running.
 

Return of the Dewey

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I am kind of wondering if the thinking is actually to start Bradley with Duran behind him.

We all know that JBJ was just about the worst player in the league last season, but a typical Boston JBJ season was worth about 2 WAR — or what Renfroe was worth last season.

Maybe with an astonishing amount offense coming from the starting infield, we can carry a glove-first outfielder and hope that Duran takes a step forward? And then add at the deadline if JBJ has a terrible first half; if he's hitting decently, no need.
I don’t know about Duran, but I am suspecting that JBJ may be starter, and least for start of season. They may want to maximize defense in OF considering the current pitching staff.
 

YTF

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I am kind of wondering if the thinking is actually to start Bradley with Duran behind him.

We all know that JBJ was just about the worst player in the league last season, but a typical Boston JBJ season was worth about 2 WAR — or what Renfroe was worth last season.

Maybe with an astonishing amount offense coming from the starting infield, we can carry a glove-first outfielder and hope that Duran takes a step forward? And then add at the deadline if JBJ has a terrible first half; if he's hitting decently, no need.
IMO Duran needs to stay in Woostah, play every day and work on every aspect of his game. I don't think he improves sitting on the Boston bench.
 

Minneapolis Millers

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If Arauz's injury is serious, that fourth spot is definitely up in the air. Shaw I would think has the inside track if only because there's no one else on the roster with 1B experience (except for Arroyo's one disastrous outing, I guess).
Shaw also might be a better backup at 3rd than Arroyo.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Yeah, that's why I was thinking Shaw and FWIW, I'm all for Arroyo picking up the first baseman's in ST and giving it another shot with the opportunity for to learn the position before being pressed into service. I think last year's injury was a fluke that got lumped into the category of Swihart playing LF and Wright pinch running.
Agreed on Arroyo, if only to give him one more place where he could work himself into the lineup (let him try the OF too). Would still prefer a LHH to spell Dalbec, and Shaw appears to be that guy.
 

joe dokes

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I am kind of wondering if the thinking is actually to start Bradley with Duran behind him.

We all know that JBJ was just about the worst player in the league last season, but a typical Boston JBJ season was worth about 2 WAR — or what Renfroe was worth last season.

Maybe with an astonishing amount offense coming from the starting infield, we can carry a glove-first outfielder and hope that Duran takes a step forward? And then add at the deadline if JBJ has a terrible first half; if he's hitting decently, no need.
Relatedly, I really dont know the best way to move forward, but there is an awful lot of over rating Hunter Renfroe going on. It's really fucking hard to make 12(!) errors in the outfield in one season.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Relatedly, I really dont know the best way to move forward, but there is an awful lot of over rating Hunter Renfroe going on. It's really fucking hard to make 12(!) errors in the outfield in one season.
Renfroe got a lot of attention for his 16 assists. He had a hose but he also had a propensity for being too aggressive trying to throw guys out, missing cut off men, and allowing trail runners to take extra bases. With JBJ you get way way better instincts tracking balls and a lot better decision-making with a similarly strong arm.
 

joe dokes

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Renfroe got a lot of attention for his 16 assists. He had a hose but he also had a propensity for being too aggressive trying to throw guys out, missing cut off men, and allowing trail runners to take extra bases. With JBJ you get way way better instincts tracking balls and a lot better decision-making with a similarly strong arm.
Right. It's interesting to me that Renfroe's negative defensive attributes worsened as the season went along. I wonder if scouting picked it all up early, and then used it against him later.
And fwiw--I know that 30HR hitters dont grow on trees.
 

TapeAndPosts

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So are we thinking something like

1. Kiké CF
2. Story 2B
3. Devers 3B
4. Bogaerts SS
5. Martinez DH
6. Verdugo LF
7. Dalbec 1B
8. Vazquez C
9. Bradley RF

with Casas in the mix this summer? I’d still take a bigger bat in RF, but I can live with this.
 

bosockboy

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So are we thinking something like

1. Kiké CF
2. Story 2B
3. Devers 3B
4. Bogaerts SS
5. Martinez DH
6. Verdugo LF
7. Dalbec 1B
8. Vazquez C
9. Bradley RF

with Casas in the mix this summer? I’d still take a bigger bat in RF, but I can live with this.
Add Pham as a 4th OF and JBJ insurance and I’ll take it.

Arroyo
Pham
Shaw
Plawecki

is a solid bench too.
 

Yaz4Ever

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So are we thinking something like

1. Kiké CF
2. Story 2B
3. Devers 3B
4. Bogaerts SS
5. Martinez DH
6. Verdugo LF
7. Dalbec 1B
8. Vazquez C
9. Bradley RF

with Casas in the mix this summer? I’d still take a bigger bat in RF, but I can live with this.
That’s a solid lineup, but we still need to limit runs from our opponents. We need two solid SP to keep Houck and Whitlock from being forced into the rotation until Sale returns.
 

Just a bit outside

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I wonder if Margot would be a good platoon partner with JBJ. Scheduled to make 5 million, league average on offense, and about the time the Rays dump guys like him. Also gives a lot of defensive flexibility.
 

E5 Yaz

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We need two solid SP to keep Houck and Whitlock from being forced into the rotation until Sale returns.
How do you propose they get those starting pitchers ... trade prospects? The free agent starting pitching market was thin to begin with, more so now
 

BigSoxFan

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The Mariners are likely to have Kyle Lewis soon and Julio Rodriguez is expected to make his debut at some point. I was wondering if Mitch Haniger might be an in-season trade option given that he’s 31 and unlikely to be re-signed by Seattle. Seems like he would be a nice option as a RHH with power and I think at least mediocre defense. JBJ could be the late inning sub, as needed.

Not sure what the cost would be in a few months but if the Mariners get off to a poor start, they might be willing to maximize their value there.