Red Sox in season discussion

Daniel_Son

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Arroyo's statcast numbers are as good as Xander's (whose numbers are in line with his career). Hopefully he gets some games at 1B to get him more PAs. I think at this point the only real need is the bullpen and RF.
I'd love to see Bloom make a move for some OF help. I believe the only guys they've got long-term is Verdugo + Duran + Cordero (who I'd rather see at 1B over Dalbec at this point), and there's no real help coming in the minors anytime soon.
 

BringBackMo

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I think the 40-man “crunch” just makes it really difficult to keep all these guys, but you are right in that it could likely come down to what roles they envision for Houck and Whitlock. But, if you have a rotation of Sale, Pivetta, Paxton, Houck, and Whitlock; there probably isn’t room to keep all these guys around.
I think Houck is no longer being considered for the rotation by the Red Sox.

It's an interesting point about the 40-man, and one that might be worth its own thread. Here are the pitchers currently on the 40-man, per MLB.com:

PITCHERS
Matt Barnes IL-15
Brayan Bello
Ryan Brasier
Kutter Crawford
Tyler Danish
Austin Davis
Jake Diekman
Nathan Eovaldi IL-15
Jay Groome
Darwinzon Hernandez
Rich Hill IL-15
Tanner Houck
Bryan Mata
James Paxton IL-60
Nick Pivetta
Hansel Robles
Chris Sale IL-60
Hirokazu Sawamura
John Schreiber
Connor Seabold
Matt Strahm
Josh Taylor IL-60
Philips Valdez
Michael Wacha
Garrett Whitlock IL-15
Josh Wincokowski

Of those pitchers, I think the following could be fairly painlessly traded or DFA as needed to open up spots on the 40-man. I've put them in my own personal (bullshit) ranking of least to most painful to lose:
Ryan Brasier
Kutter Crawford
Hirokazu Sawamura
Tyler Danish
Philips Valdez
Hansel Robles
Austin Davis
Jay Groome
Darwinzon Hernandez

I'm also curious what the board thinks of Matt Barnes at this point. Is he a sunk cost now that they've cracked down on the sticky stuff? Do we keep him on the roster or just eat the salary and let him go to free up his 40-man spot?
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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I think Houck is no longer being considered for the rotation by the Red Sox.

It's an interesting point about the 40-man, and one that might be worth its own thread. Here are the pitchers currently on the 40-man, per MLB.com:

PITCHERS
Matt Barnes IL-15
Brayan Bello
Ryan Brasier
Kutter Crawford
Tyler Danish
Austin Davis
Jake Diekman
Nathan Eovaldi IL-15
Jay Groome
Darwinzon Hernandez
Rich Hill IL-15
Tanner Houck
Bryan Mata
James Paxton IL-60
Nick Pivetta
Hansel Robles
Chris Sale IL-60
Hirokazu Sawamura
John Schreiber
Connor Seabold
Matt Strahm
Josh Taylor IL-60
Philips Valdez
Michael Wacha
Garrett Whitlock IL-15
Josh Wincokowski

Of those pitchers, I think the following could be fairly painlessly traded or DFA as needed to open up spots on the 40-man. I've put them in my own personal (bullshit) ranking of least to most painful to lose:
Ryan Brasier
Kutter Crawford
Hirokazu Sawamura
Tyler Danish
Philips Valdez
Hansel Robles
Austin Davis
Jay Groome
Darwinzon Hernandez

I'm also curious what the board thinks of Matt Barnes at this point. Is he a sunk cost now that they've cracked down on the sticky stuff? Do we keep him on the roster or just eat the salary and let him go to free up his 40-man spot?
Groome still needs another year ideally before cutting bait. He's pretty worthless in any sort of deal and hasn't really had sufficient time back. That pedigree is too good to give up on, IMO. Other than that, pretty much any of that list wouldn't be horribly missed. Both Brasier and Sawamura have had stretches but seem fungible at this point. Hernandez I'm not sure if he'll ever get the control needed to get ML batters out on a regular basis.
Barnes also should be given a little more time... looking like his problems could very well be injury related. When he was on, he really looked amazing, so hopefully he can recover and find that form again. This point in '23 without any improvement, then yeah... sink it.
 

BaseballJones

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Dating back to last August, here's Matt Barnes' last 36 appearances:

2021: 16 g, 10.2 ip, 17 h, 12 r, 12 er, 9 bb, 16 k
2022: 20 g, 17.0 ip, 17 h, 18 r, 15 er, 12 bb, 14 k
TOT: 36 g, 27.2 ip, 34 h, 30 r, 27 er, 21 bb, 30 k, 8.78 era, 1.99 whip, 9.8 k/9

The previous four years (2017-2020), Barnes had done this:

216 g, 203.2 ip, 157 h, 92 r, 86 er, 103 bb, 321 k, 3.80 era, 1.28 whip, 14.2 k/9

So his numbers the last two months of last year and into this year have been unfathomably bad. As in...this guy had better not ever throw another pitch in a Red Sox uniform kind of bad. We know he's typically been much better than this though. But that was when he was throwing 98. Now he's throwing, what, 93? Big difference. It's not just that his era and whip have gone through the roof. It's that his k/9 numbers are way way WAY down from what they'd been the previous four years.
 

bsj

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So? One fluke injury and he should never play there again?

FWIW, he's played there twice this season (3 total innings) with no ill effects. He's probably the third option there right now. But if it's a matter of getting his hot bat in the lineup (if/when it is hot), there should be no hesitation to play him.
I'm not blanket opposed to it, just was asking
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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I'm not blanket opposed to it, just was asking
I have to say that the positional flexibility that Bloom looks for in role players is paying off. Mostly focused around RF and 1B but helping to give more breathers to the core (TBH- sometimes more than I think necessary)
 

scottyno

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So his numbers the last two months of last year and into this year have been unfathomably bad. As in...this guy had better not ever throw another pitch in a Red Sox uniform kind of bad. We know he's typically been much better than this though. But that was when he was throwing 98. Now he's throwing, what, 93? Big difference. It's not just that his era and whip have gone through the roof. It's that his k/9 numbers are way way WAY down from what they'd been the previous four years.
He made an adjustment in early May and the velocity is pretty much back, before that he was averaging 93-94, since then it's more like 95-96, which is pretty similar to his career norms. It hasn't really helped much in his overall results, but I don't think velocity is really the problem going forward, control seemed like the bigger issue.
 

Yelling At Clouds

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Josh Bell seems like a great target. Don’t believe extension talks got anywhere and he’d be a nice rental. Problem is that I doubt some combination our 40 man guys would get it done. Really sucks how awful Downs has performed.
As much as I'd like to see Bell finally make it to Boston eight years after he was rumored to be Pittsburgh's trade offer for Jon Lester, I don't think Bloom will go for it. A 1B who plays 1B? I just don't see it...

I'm saying this in a kidding kind of way, but I actually do think if they trade for a position player, it will be someone with more versatility than Bell. On the downside, in looking around, the best choice I saw besides Ian Happ might be this guy, and I'd be extremely wary of acquiring him in the midst of a career year.
 

BringBackMo

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Good move. And as indicated above, there are plenty of other arms currently on the 40 man that can be rather painlessly dumped to create a path for the Worcester contingent. Sawamura and Brasier doubtless can hear the footsteps.
 

cantor44

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I think Houck is no longer being considered for the rotation by the Red Sox.

It's an interesting point about the 40-man, and one that might be worth its own thread. Here are the pitchers currently on the 40-man, per MLB.com:

PITCHERS
Matt Barnes IL-15
Brayan Bello
Ryan Brasier
Kutter Crawford
Tyler Danish
Austin Davis
Jake Diekman
Nathan Eovaldi IL-15
Jay Groome
Darwinzon Hernandez
Rich Hill IL-15
Tanner Houck
Bryan Mata
James Paxton IL-60
Nick Pivetta
Hansel Robles
Chris Sale IL-60
Hirokazu Sawamura
John Schreiber
Connor Seabold
Matt Strahm
Josh Taylor IL-60
Philips Valdez
Michael Wacha
Garrett Whitlock IL-15
Josh Wincokowski

Of those pitchers, I think the following could be fairly painlessly traded or DFA as needed to open up spots on the 40-man. I've put them in my own personal (bullshit) ranking of least to most painful to lose:
Ryan Brasier
Kutter Crawford
Hirokazu Sawamura
Tyler Danish
Philips Valdez
Hansel Robles
Austin Davis
Jay Groome
Darwinzon Hernandez

I'm also curious what the board thinks of Matt Barnes at this point. Is he a sunk cost now that they've cracked down on the sticky stuff? Do we keep him on the roster or just eat the salary and let him go to free up his 40-man spot?
It seems that Sawamura has been a very solid low leverage bullpen guy. His conventional stats are good this year, and peripherals middle of the pack on the team. Not sure why he never gets any respect ....
 

chawson

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Paxton, too. But Apisith's point remains. You need more than five starters over the course of a season, and a lot of these young arms have the potential to contribute both as starters and relievers over the next couple of years. I don't see the Sox parting with any of Winck, Seabold, Walter, or Murphy. Bello and Mata are essentially untouchable, I would guess.
We would be so fortunate if Winck, Seabold, Crawford and Bello could all stick as starters. Each of those guys had been more likely ticketed for MIRP bullpen duty by prospect evaluators in the past year. We’ll see what happens with Bello today, but these past two weeks have been informative for the other three. We’ll see once the league writes the book on them, but to varying degrees, they look like they can hack it — especially Winckowski.

And I agree with you that Winck and Seabold are likely to stay. Bloom seemed to target them from the low minors for a reason. Bello seems like he could be special too. It’s Crawford who seems most likely to be moved in a trade.
 

BoSoxGent

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We would be so fortunate if Winck, Seabold, Crawford and Bello could all stick as starters. Each of those guys had been more likely ticketed for MIRP bullpen duty by prospect evaluators in the past year. We’ll see what happens with Bello today, but these past two weeks have been informative for the other three. We’ll see once the league writes the book on them, but to varying degrees, they look like they can hack it — especially Winckowski.

And I agree with you that Winck and Seabold are likely to stay. Bloom seemed to target them from the low minors for a reason. Bello seems like he could be special too. It’s Crawford who seems most likely to be moved in a trade.
What surprised me is that Winck came back from Woosox with his FB up to 94-95, and Schriber (not a Starter) also improving Velocity similiarly.
I didn’t know that could be done so quickly.

if Seabold can do that, I’d be impressed, but otherwise I’d move him instead of Crawford.
A Bullpen of Whitlock, Hiuck, Schriber and Robertson (??) for a surplus Starter will make us more competitive for this Year.

Bello is probably not ready now, but the experience will help him for next year.

I think our “near future” is quite bright.
 

sean1562

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It seems that Sawamura has been a very solid low leverage bullpen guy. His conventional stats are good this year, and peripherals middle of the pack on the team. Not sure why he never gets any respect ....
Yea I am not sure why Sawamura gets so little respect on this board. The guy has a 2.45 ERA with a 3.18 FIP for the season. He seems to be a pretty solid middle reliever, better than players like Danish, Brasier, and Valdez.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Yea I am not sure why Sawamura gets so little respect on this board. The guy has a 2.45 ERA with a 3.18 FIP for the season. He seems to be a pretty solid middle reliever, better than players like Danish, Brasier, and Valdez.
I think the lack of respect on Sawamura, at least this year, is based on the number of inherited runners he's allowed to score (14 of 26, 54%). Only Brasier has allowed a higher percentage (8 of 14, 57%).

That was something Sawamura was quite good at last year (6 of 35 scored, 17%) and seemingly Cora hasn't caught on to that yet since he's had the most inherited runners of any reliever this season.
 

chawson

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What surprised me is that Winck came back from Woosox with his FB up to 94-95, and Schriber (not a Starter) also improving Velocity similiarly.
I didn’t know that could be done so quickly.

if Seabold can do that, I’d be impressed, but otherwise I’d move him instead of Crawford.
A Bullpen of Whitlock, Hiuck, Schriber and Robertson (??) for a surplus Starter will make us more competitive for this Year.

Bello is probably not ready now, but the experience will help him for next year.

I think our “near future” is quite bright.
Winck is especially interesting to me. He'd have a Top-10 ground ball rate (56.5%) among starters if he were to qualify, with only one home run allowed in 26 innings. SSS of course, and he's faced bad lineups in BAL, CHC, CLE, DET and OAK.

It's really interesting to see Bloom target this kind of player in a trade -- while he was still in A-ball -- rather than a hard thrower with swing-and-miss stuff. MLB has been so unfavorable to sinker-ball pitchers the last 5-6 years. There were 23 qualified SPs with ground-ball rates higher than 50 percent in 2014. Last year, there were only 7.

You're right -- the velocity bump to a 94-95 mph two-seamer has helped a lot. If he can induce a few more whiffs, his profile would be comparable to some really interesting players.
 

BringBackMo

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We would be so fortunate if Winck, Seabold, Crawford and Bello could all stick as starters. Each of those guys had been more likely ticketed for MIRP bullpen duty by prospect evaluators in the past year. We’ll see what happens with Bello today, but these past two weeks have been informative for the other three. We’ll see once the league writes the book on them, but to varying degrees, they look like they can hack it — especially Winckowski.

And I agree with you that Winck and Seabold are likely to stay. Bloom seemed to target them from the low minors for a reason. Bello seems like he could be special too. It’s Crawford who seems most likely to be moved in a trade.
The Sox will give Bello miles of runway to make it as a starter over the next couple of years. He has three plus to above-average pitches and is on a different prospect level than any other pitcher in the system. I do think he might throw out of the pen for the Sox this season as they seek to limit his innings and to fortify the reliever corps.

I largely agree with your take about the rest of them. I think Seabold, Winck, Murphy, Walter are long shots to remain as starters but as you point out, there’s a chance that some of them could stick. But they offer plenty of value as cheap bullpen pieces so, as you noted, I don’t see Bloom dealing any of them. Add in Mata and German and there’s a lot to be excited about in the Sox upper-minors pitching crew. When’s the last time we said that?
 

BringBackMo

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It seems that Sawamura has been a very solid low leverage bullpen guy. His conventional stats are good this year, and peripherals middle of the pack on the team. Not sure why he never gets any respect ....
This is fair. As you point out, he’s been used in low-leverage spots, and I think there are more valuable options available for for his roster spot, but he hasn’t been as bad as my throwaway comment suggested. I definitely don’t want to see him in any important spots, though, and it’s pretty clear that Cora and Bloom don’t either.
 

BoSoxGent

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The Sox will give Bello miles of runway to make it as a starter over the next couple of years. He has three plus to above-average pitches and is on a different prospect level than any other pitcher in the system. I do think he might throw out of the pen for the Sox this season as they seek to limit his innings and to fortify the reliever corps.

I largely agree with your take about the rest of them. I think Seabold, Winck, Murphy, Walter are long shots to remain as starters but as you point out, there’s a chance that some of them could stick. But they offer plenty of value as cheap bullpen pieces so, as you noted, I don’t see Bloom dealing any of them. Add in Mata and German and there’s a lot to be excited about in the Sox upper-minors pitching crew. When’s the last time we said that?
I’ve been a fan since Pinky Higgins was the GM.
The answer to your Question of “when was the last time we were excited about upper Minor Pitchers was … “ …. NEVER (except Rose/Pavano … and we were wrong about them!)
 

BringBackMo

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I’ve been a fan since Pinky Higgins was the GM.
The answer to your Question of “when was the last time we were excited about upper Minor Pitchers was … “ …. NEVER (except Rose/Pavano … and we were wrong about them!)
Lester/Bucchholz/Papelbon worked out pretty well. But your point is a good one. It’s been very rare indeed!
 

Cesar Crespo

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Lester/Bucchholz/Papelbon worked out pretty well. But your point is a good one. It’s been very rare indeed!

Since the trio you mentioned the team has gone through top 100 pitching prospects in Henry Owens, Allen Webster, Anthony Ranuado, RDLR, Jay Groome, Anderson Espinoza, Michael Kopech (he's worked out so far). Probably missing some. There's EdRod but he comes with an * due to his time with the Orioles. Groome, Anderson and Kopech were awhile back.

When was the last time the Red Sox even had a pitcher who was a top 100 prospect in baseball? I guess its pre 2018, Groome was in the 80s on BA, MLB, BP. He was injured and on a downward trajectory by that point though. Bello should crack most (if not all) top 100 lists pre 2023, so 5 years, 6 if you factor in Groome's injury and his inevitable fall off the list.

I would say this is the most excited we have been since the end of 2016 where we had Jay Groome, Anderson Espinoza and Michael Kopech. They were all ranked 20-40. People always forgot about that trio though. There was sooooo much hype, then Groome was injured and Anderson and Kopech were shipped off.
 

BaseballJones

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For me, it's not just Bello, though he's right there at the top. It's the whole group of them that excites me:

Bello, Mayer, Casas, Mata, Yorke, Walter, Rafaela, Jordan, et al. For the first time in a while, the Sox' minor league system has an abundance of quality prospects. And not just "they might be good in the majors", but "this guy could be a STAR in the majors" kind of guys.
 

Ganthem

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For me, it's not just Bello, though he's right there at the top. It's the whole group of them that excites me:

Bello, Mayer, Casas, Mata, Yorke, Walter, Rafaela, Jordan, et al. For the first time in a while, the Sox' minor league system has an abundance of quality prospects. And not just "they might be good in the majors", but "this guy could be a STAR in the majors" kind of guys.
Just to piggyback off this. Obviously not all of these guys are going to work out, but I feel Bloom is going to figure out who he should sell high on. The system might not be at a point where Bloom can engineer a trade for the present day equivalent of Chris Sale, but it is pretty damm close and that is exciting.
 

BaseballJones

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Ideally, they're going to want to introduce 1-3 guys into the majors each year from their minor league system. That requires an ever-rich stockpile of talent. Then hopefully there's enough there for them to use a couple of pieces to make a major deal here and there as well or sign a few big FAs.
 

LoLsapien

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You guys weren't all-in on the Owens/De La Rosa hype train? /s
I was never an Owens guy on account of him being a too lanky dude that's not a BIG UNIT but man... I was all-in on the Rubby de la Rosa hype train. Pedro signed off on the guy as being bonified, the scouts all said he could throw a sweet fastball. I was so pumped I watched his debut start with the Sox from an Irish bar in Berkeley, CA, that had Smithwicks on tap, and that's about all I remember about his start, on account of the Smithwicks on tap. I'm still convinced Webster is going to harness his stuff. His pitches had such movement... such beautiful stuff.. when he can reliably find the strike zone... Watch out...
 

gruberj

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YTF

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It seems that Sawamura has been a very solid low leverage bullpen guy. His conventional stats are good this year, and peripherals middle of the pack on the team. Not sure why he never gets any respect ....
Yea I am not sure why Sawamura gets so little respect on this board. The guy has a 2.45 ERA with a 3.18 FIP for the season. He seems to be a pretty solid middle reliever, better than players like Danish, Brasier, and Valdez.
I think the lack of respect on Sawamura, at least this year, is based on the number of inherited runners he's allowed to score (14 of 26, 54%). Only Brasier has allowed a higher percentage (8 of 14, 57%).

That was something Sawamura was quite good at last year (6 of 35 scored, 17%) and seemingly Cora hasn't caught on to that yet since he's had the most inherited runners of any reliever this season.
Yeah it's the IR issue that draws criticism and its been more prevalent as the season wears on. Since May 26th he's entered 6 games with runners on base. Of the 13 runners he inherited in those 6 games, 11 scored. In 5 of those games each runner he inherited scored and in 2 of those games he gave up an additional earned run. So while his overall numbers look respectable a deeper dive show he's really spit the bit in the past 5 weeks when he comes into the game with runners on base.

5/26 3 IR 1 scored
5/27 2 IR 2 scored plus an additional earned run
5/30 2 IR 2 scored
6/9 2 IR 2 scored
6/16 1 IR 1 scored
6/18 3 IR 3 scored plus an additional earned run
 

Minneapolis Millers

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I was never an Owens guy on account of him being a too lanky dude that's not a BIG UNIT but man... I was all-in on the Rubby de la Rosa hype train. Pedro signed off on the guy as being bonified, the scouts all said he could throw a sweet fastball. I was so pumped I watched his debut start with the Sox from an Irish bar in Berkeley, CA, that had Smithwicks on tap, and that's about all I remember about his start, on account of the Smithwicks on tap. I'm still convinced Webster is going to harness his stuff. His pitches had such movement... such beautiful stuff.. when he can reliably find the strike zone... Watch out...
International League MVP Brian Rose was gonna be the guy, I was sure of it. And then he wasn’t, so we traded for Pedro. Or something like that. ;)
 

Sin Duda

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Does anyone else recall the official Red Sox scorebook from early 80's that said HOT pitchers on the cover? It was using the first initial of Bruce Hurst, Bobby Ojeda, and John Tudor. I just looked them up and they came up in 1979 or 1980 and were teammates in Pawtucket in 1980. They all became fine pitchers in the NL, and all placed top 5 in Cy Young voting once. They pitched 15, 15, and 12 years in the bigs.

Anyone know how big a deal they were collectively?
 

geoflin

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we talk a lot about bad/good decisions to add player but perhaps not enough about the bad/good decisions to subtract them. Looks like letting ERod go has been a very smart move

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/34202032/detroit-tigers-heard-eduardo-rodriguez-placing-lhp-restricted-list-3-weeks-ago

That said, I do hope that whatever health issues are unreported here work out OK - glad he isn't ours but still enjoyed watching him when he was on
I read somewhere, can't find it, that the issue was his marriage, not health.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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I read somewhere, can't find it, that the issue was his marriage, not health.
That was the suspicion, but I don't think anything's been confirmed publicly.

Whatever it is, it's not health related. At least not his health, anyway. If it was, he'd be on the IL, not the restricted list.
 

Daniel_Son

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we talk a lot about bad/good decisions to add player but perhaps not enough about the bad/good decisions to subtract them. Looks like letting ERod go has been a very smart move

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/34202032/detroit-tigers-heard-eduardo-rodriguez-placing-lhp-restricted-list-3-weeks-ago

That said, I do hope that whatever health issues are unreported here work out OK - glad he isn't ours but still enjoyed watching him when he was on
Hindsight is 20/20 - I personally didn't feel great about replacing him with Michael Wacha and Rich Hill. Obviously, it worked out, which shows how much I know about these decisions.
 

joe dokes

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Yeah it's the IR issue that draws criticism and its been more prevalent as the season wears on. Since May 26th he's entered 6 games with runners on base. Of the 13 runners he inherited in those 6 games, 11 scored. In 5 of those games each runner he inherited scored and in 2 of those games he gave up an additional earned run. So while his overall numbers look respectable a deeper dive show he's really spit the bit in the past 5 weeks when he comes into the game with runners on base.

5/26 3 IR 1 scored
5/27 2 IR 2 scored plus an additional earned run
5/30 2 IR 2 scored
6/9 2 IR 2 scored
6/16 1 IR 1 scored
6/18 3 IR 3 scored plus an additional earned run
Yet last year he was one of their best at IR. Not sure if such a variation is a season long thing, sample size or something else.
And context matters, IR on 3rd with none out is different than IR on 1st with 2 outs. (I have no idea how that shakes out with him, this year or last; just a general observation about the utility of the stat).
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Yet last year he was one of their best at IR. Not sure if such a variation is a season long thing, sample size or something else.
And context matters, IR on 3rd with none out is different than IR on 1st with 2 outs. (I have no idea how that shakes out with him, this year or last; just a general observation about the utility of the stat).
Seems like overall night and day between last season and this.

Sawamura 2022:
Entered with 0 outs (4 times)
7 runners, 6 scored (2 from 1B, 2 from 2B, 2 from 3B)
Entered with 1 out (3 times)
7 runners, 4 scored (1 from 1B, 1 from 2B, 2 from 3B)
Entered with 2 outs (8 times)
12 runners, 4 scored (2 from 1B, 1 from 2B, 1 from 3B)

Sawamura 2021:
Entered with 0 outs (4 times)
5 runners, 1 scored (1 from 1B, 0 from 2B, 0 from 3B)
Entered with 1 out (5 times)
9 runners, 1 scored (1 from 1B, 0 from 2B, 0 from 3B)
Entered with 2 outs (14 times)
21 runners, 4 scored (1 from 1B, 3 from 2B, 0 from 3B)
 

catsooey

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What if the only way to keep Xander is to offer him 7 years 200 million and agree not to take him off short? I think most people here would love to see Xander play his entire career in Boston, but there has to be a line. Otherwise you end up with Pablo Sandoval and Chris Sale.
Agree 100% There’s a fine line with negotiations. My worry is that ownership went back and forth between extremes, and we’re back to “cheap” mode. The other mode is even worse. I don’t want another Panda. I just hope we don’t end up with another John Lester situation.

Btw, I saw a video the other day of Panda running towards home plate in some minor league game and flattening the catcher. I felt so bad for the catcher. He was seriously injured, and Panda just slowly walked past the guy - who was not moving and surrounded by help at this point. Not even a glance in his direction as he plodded back to the dugout.
 

scottyno

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Agree 100% There’s a fine line with negotiations. My worry is that ownership went back and forth between extremes, and we’re back to “cheap” mode. The other mode is even worse. I don’t want another Panda. I just hope we don’t end up with another John Lester situation.
They've run one of the biggest payrolls in baseball each of the last 2 years by choice, and just gave a guy a minimum of $140m, why exactly do you think they're going to "cheap mode"?

I'm also not sure why you think they're going "back" to it either, has this ownership ever been cheap since they took over the team?
 

Lose Remerswaal

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They've run one of the biggest payrolls in baseball each of the last 2 years by choice, and just gave a guy a minimum of $140m, why exactly do you think they're going to "cheap mode"?

I'm also not sure why you think they're going "back" to it either, has this ownership ever been cheap since they took over the team?
Because it is cool to be contrary. Haven’t you read Dan Shaugnessy? And also if the team DOES go cheap, then you can say you said it first. If they don’t, well, your comments get forgotten with history
 

scottyno

Member
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Dec 7, 2008
9,770
Because it is cool to be contrary. Haven’t you read Dan Shaugnessy? And also if the team DOES go cheap, then you can say you said it first. If they don’t, well, your comments get forgotten with history
There are people on here that have been calling them cheap for at least 2 years now, he's going to have to get in line behind several dozen people.
 

joe dokes

Member
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Jul 18, 2005
24,441
Agree 100% There’s a fine line with negotiations. My worry is that ownership went back and forth between extremes, and we’re back to “cheap” mode. The other mode is even worse. I don’t want another Panda. I just hope we don’t end up with another John Lester situation.
Sandoval was a lot of things in Boston. "Cheap" was not one of them. I'm not sure how he represents a "way" of doing things.
 

Rovin Romine

Johnny Rico
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Jul 14, 2005
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Miami (oh, Miami!)
I get that we're trying to find things to analyze, but I find these strength-of-schedule discussions routinely get overblown. The aggregate opponent winning percentage during this recent easy stretch dating back to the May 20 series against Mariners was .412. For the upcoming hard stretch (Guardians through 2nd Yankees series before the break), it's .585. In NBA terms, that's the difference between playing the Raptors and the Spurs. Yes, it matters, and it's likely to show up in the W-L record. But the signal-to-noise ratio is also very low compared to variables within our own team performance. For example, JBJr could go on one of his inexplicable .900 OPS tears for a month and that alone would mostly outweigh the SOS differences.

Edit: to be a bit less lazy about this: the "strong" and "weak" stretches of the schedule cited above are each 24-28 games. A .500 team would expect to lose 4 more games against 585 competition than against .412 competition in that span. A four game W/L swing is indeed big. But the Red Sox themselves have alternately played like a .354 team and a .696 team for long stretches of time. The team's variability right now is much bigger than the whims of the scheduling gods. In any case, four extra losses over the next 24 games due to harder strength of opposition isn't going to "sink" us, as a lot of posters are warning.
Ping. How’s it going?
 

NDame616

will bailey
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2006
1,872
Saying the Red Sox are cheap is Felgeresque.

But the fact remains they spent a few years as the highest payroll in MLB, spent a few years as 4th, and are now 6th. Is that *cheap*? No. Yes we had some terrible contracts we are now on the other side of, but it will be interesting to see where the team ranks in payroll as we further move into Bloom's tenure.

The Sox (under this ownership) will never be *cheap*, but maybe we move to a top 10 payroll (still not cheap) as opposed to a top 3.
 

sezwho

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
926
Isle of Plum
Agree 100% There’s a fine line with negotiations. My worry is that ownership went back and forth between extremes, and we’re back to “cheap” mode. The other mode is even worse. I don’t want another Panda. I just hope we don’t end up with another John Lester situation.

Btw, I saw a video the other day of Panda running towards home plate in some minor league game and flattening the catcher. I felt so bad for the catcher. He was seriously injured, and Panda just slowly walked past the guy - who was not moving and surrounded by help at this point. Not even a glance in his direction as he plodded back to the dugout.
Link
Yeah, he obliterated that catcher with what looks like maybe a shoulder to the head…dropped like ton of bricks.

Gotta be pushing 300lbs hope that dude is ok.
 

soxhop411

news aggravator
SoSH Member
Dec 4, 2009
41,593
View: https://twitter.com/bostonsportsinf/status/1545245522067443714

Rafael Devers

Since June 1st

Rafael Devers - 7 HR - 25 RBI
JD & Xander - 5 HR - 23 RBI

2 of those 3 have to get going

Bobby gets shit on here and some of it is deserved. But he is being treated by some as the main reason for the Sox current issues.
Like if we would get a new 1B everything would be fine again.

problem is our lineup issues run deeper than that.
When two of your key middle of the order bats have struggled this badly for more than a month they should be the ones that shoulder more of the blame. As they are the ones being paid the big $$$ to produce like middle of the order bats.