Red Sox in season discussion

chawson

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The Rockies aren’t trading Cron. They just signed him to an extension last offseason.

Dalbec has some value. Certainly more than Chavis did. I’ve speculated enough where he could land but it’d probably be in some kind of package deal. Bednar is too high but Bender/Aguilar looks like a fair swap.
 

Daniel_Son

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I think they're going to have quite a roster crunch, both on the big league squad and on the 40-man roster. This is going to require some work. Let's say everyone is healthy (fat chance but....). Here's the list of guys who could potentially (and somewhat realistically) be on the MLB club:

C (3) - Vazquez, Plawecki, Wong
IF (8) - Dalbec, Cordero, Arroyo, Story, Bogaerts, Devers, Sanchez, Downs
OF (6) - JBJ, Kiké, JD, Verdugo, Refsnyder, Duran

SP (9) - Eovaldi, Paxton, Pivetta, Hill, Winckowski, Wacha, Sale, Crawford, Seabold
RP (15) - Brasier, Diekman, Barnes, Davis, Strahm, Sawamura, Schreiber, Danish, Taylor, Houck, Whitlock, Valdez, Robles, Bello, Walter

That's a total of 41 guys, for 16 spots. Obviously some of these guys are long shots or at the far end of the likelihood spectrum, like Downs, Wong, and Walter. I think Bello probably will wait til 2023 to come up, but the guy is *electric* and I could see him coming up to be a stud relief arm at the end of the year. But who knows. Anyway, this is a lot of guys for not that many spots. So I think a lot of it is going to come down to which players have options. They're not looking to just let decent MLB players go for nothing, so either option them or trade them. And I could see Boston trading both ways - trading some established vets for prospects, and then trading other prospects for MLB help.

Here's what I'd like to see for a roster, again, assuming these guys are healthy...

C (2) - Vazquez, Plawecki (man I want a better backup, but that's not a huge priority)
IF (5) - Story, Bogaerts, Devers, Arroyo, Cordero
OF (6)- Kiké, JD, Verdugo, Duran, JBJ, Refsnyder

This roster means that they've got several guys with lots of positional flexibility: Arroyo, Cordero, Kiké, and Refsnyder. They can put out there a terrific defensive team if they want with Kiké, JBJ, Refsnyder in the OF. They can go LHB heavy with Duran, Verdugo, JBJ, and Cordero, or they could go RHB heavy with Arroyo, Kiké, and Refsnyder.

SP (5) - Sale, Eovaldi, Pivetta, Paxton, Hill
RP (8) - Whitlock, Houck, Schreiber, Strahm, Diekman, Taylor, Davis, and another stud RHP, or, if they can't swing a good deal for that, bring up Bello to pitch out of the bullpen

Trades I'd like to see:
- Dalbec and a lesser prospect for CJ Cron. Dalbec could hit 35-40 homers for Colorado, and he's dirt cheap. Plus they get another prospect. For Boston, Cron isn't too expensive (just $7m a year) and is signed through 2023, so they have a little more time to ease Casas into the mix. Cron has proven he can hit outside Coors as well (30 hr for TB in 2018, 25 hr for Min in 2019). He'd be a nice short term trade pickup.

- Trade Wacha for a prospect. I still, even halfway through the season, think he's done it with smoke and mirrors, but his numbers are very very good and to another team in playoff contention, a guy like him - veteran, not making much, pitching very well this year - is probably worth something pretty good from their farm system.

- Trade prospects for Bard. Bard would be ideal for this team in the bullpen. Hard throwing, has been very good this year. Love his story. Wouldn't cost much either. Maybe a separate deal for Colorado, or you make it one big deal: Dalbec and a few prospects for Cron and Bard.

These deals would essentially reduce the 40-man crunch by a few spots, which is great. And it improves the team in two key areas: 1b and RP. And if you really wanted Bello still up here (like I might...we'll see) for the stretch run to pitch out of the bullpen, it's rather easy to just option Davis and go with a bullpen of Whitlock, Houck, Schreiber, Bard, Bello, Strahm, Diekman, and Taylor. That would be fine with me. And if Hill or Paxton falters, you can bring up Bello to the rotation or slide Houck or Whitlock back in there, or use Seabold or Kutter if necessary. Though the best option probably would just be to go with Winckowski.

I don't think any of the moves I suggest are really that challenging to pull off. We aren't talking about trading for Ohtani or anything like that obviously.
Small quibble, but if we're shopping one of our starters I'd trade Hill over Wacha. Peripherals aside (which, while pedestrian, aren't terrible), Wacha has been our second most-valuable starter after Pivetta (probably third after Eovaldi, but I'm factoring in durability as well). I just can't justify trading a guy who's pitching like an ace in the middle of a playoff run.
 
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CR67dream

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Some great points here, I guess I just hadn’t seriously thought that Bloom et al would consider giving JBJ the axe, but the arguments are pretty persuasive to do just that. I’m still skeptical they do, though.

I had not heard that there was serious thought about putting Whitlock back to the pen, but I fully support that move should it happen, and Cora certainly knows better than me.
 

Ganthem

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I am still not sure why they would not give Franchy some more rope and use their bullets to shore up other areas such as the bullpen.
 

Cesar Crespo

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The issue here is that baseball curremtly works like that.

Having control of a player for 6 years before he hits free agency means most star quality players will want the 10 year deal.

While I understand the Sox's decision to trade Betts I still do not like it. It's obviously not my money, but the return was not really worth it and you stick with him and negotiate a good deal (or let him go if another team beats you). As it happens, the pandemic might have helped the Sox out.

Betts in particular is the generational talent you do sign for 10 years and then see what happens when there are 3 years to go and he is worn down. Devers may be too. (Not sure they could have both). The Sox, of all teams, have the revenue to do this.

The fix could have happened in the last CBA but we know it would not.
Just because baseball works like that doesn't mean it's optimal strategy to sign guys to 10 year deals. There will always be guys willing to sign for 5-7 that offer similar production and the saved money can make up any production loss elsewhere on the diamond. Betts has also spend a bit of time on the DL the past 2 years so we'll see how he holds up. I agree the return is looking pretty meh but I still wouldn't want Betts for the next 10 years after this one.

Signing Trevor Story and JD Martinez to lesser (fewer?) years works just fine for me.
 

Cesar Crespo

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If they get rid of Dalbec they'd still need someone to cover first if/when Franchy is in the outfield, right? I see Cron as a direct 1:1 Dalbec upgrade.
Right, but Cron would be playing every day at 1st, which would eat into some of Franchy's playing time.
 

Sox Puppet

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Honestly, I'd rather they just fill the "Cron space" with Refsnyder, since he has some experience at 1B and may have turned a corner. That could also solve some roster crunch issues, since Refsnyder can back up in the OF as well. Right now Dalbec isn't bringing much to the table and just seems like a waste of space.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Honestly, I'd rather they just fill the "Cron space" with Refsnyder, since he has some experience at 1B and may have turned a corner. That could also solve some roster crunch issues, since Refsnyder can back up in the OF as well. Right now Dalbec isn't bringing much to the table and just seems like a waste of space.
He's been league average since May 1st. While one would think you could easily do better than .239/.328/.385 over 134 PA, maybe not. If Refsnyder, Duran and Cordero continue to hit at acceptable levels, I don't really see the point carrying Dalbec on the roster either.

Him and JBJ, really.
 

Sox Puppet

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With Dalbec, our tendency is to find some stretch of the season where he seems to be performing "acceptably" and wishcast that that might represent a baseline of performance. But in truth, he's at .205/.287/.330 for the year, and has negative WAR (-0.2). So, literally, he's below the level of a fungible replacement player.

Refsnyder, meanwhile, is at .341/.420/.585 and has accumulated almost a full WAR (0.7) more than Dalbec in 159 fewer PA.

Even with his "good defense" (Fangraphs actually has him at an exact neutral 0.0 defensive WAR), Jackie Bradley Jr. is at .207/.259/.296 for a rather sad -0.5 WAR. The bat is toast and the defense may be coasting on reputation.
 

Ganthem

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I would also add that the time to dick around is over. The fourteen games against the Rays and Yanks can very well determine the season and Bloom's approach at the trade deadline. Assuming health there is no reason that the best team possibly should not be fielded and I fail to see how that includes JBJ or Dalbec. Granted that Dalbec will probably be around since there is not really anyone to replace him, but if Kike is ready to go then JBJ should be nowhere near this team.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I would also add that the time to dick around is over. The fourteen games against the Rays and Yanks can very well determine the season and Bloom's approach at the trade deadline. Assuming health there is no reason that the best team possibly should not be fielded and I fail to see how that includes JBJ or Dalbec. Granted that Dalbec will probably be around since there is not really anyone to replace him, but if Kike is ready to go then JBJ should be nowhere near this team.
Why is Arroyo on this team with Enrique back?
 

trekfan55

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Just because baseball works like that doesn't mean it's optimal strategy to sign guys to 10 year deals. There will always be guys willing to sign for 5-7 that offer similar production and the saved money can make up any production loss elsewhere on the diamond. Betts has also spend a bit of time on the DL the past 2 years so we'll see how he holds up. I agree the return is looking pretty meh but I still wouldn't want Betts for the next 10 years after this one.

Signing Trevor Story and JD Martinez to lesser (fewer?) years works just fine for me.
My point was to a player of Betts caliber. How many are there?

There are many examples of players who wanted and got longer term deals that were not worth it. Some because they hit FA at an older age and some because a team wanted to make a splash. Robinson Cano/Albert Pujols/Ellsbury come to mind. I do not think Betts fit that mold, and while there would have probably been 2 (maybe 3) years og negative value in the contract, an organization like the Sox couls conceivably endure them. Again, not my money though.

A solution would be for no team to give out more than 6 year deals but that would be collusion and it's happened before, to serious consequences so no.
 

absintheofmalaise

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Pedigree has been above average offensively for the month of June. 109 WRC+. I don't want to see him batting lead off anymore, but he has been more useful then JBJ.
The Pedigree has played in a total of nine games in June. I'm not sure what your definition of a small sample size is, but his entire career, 179 games, in the majors is one. He has a OPS+ of 68 for this season accumulated in 37 games. His OPS+ for his career is 80. Yes, JBJ has been worse at the plate, but his primary value is his defense in the OF. Arroyo is at best a backup 2B. He shouldn't be anywhere near the OF with better defensive options like the Sox have in JBJ, Durran, and Refsnyder.
To me, his primary value is as a trade chip in a package for a position of need. The Sox have a couple of those.
 

Cesar Crespo

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My point was to a player of Betts caliber. How many are there?

There are many examples of players who wanted and got longer term deals that were not worth it. Some because they hit FA at an older age and some because a team wanted to make a splash. Robinson Cano/Albert Pujols/Ellsbury come to mind. I do not think Betts fit that mold, and while there would have probably been 2 (maybe 3) years og negative value in the contract, an organization like the Sox couls conceivably endure them. Again, not my money though.

A solution would be for no team to give out more than 6 year deals but that would be collusion and it's happened before, to serious consequences so no.
They couldn't endure it in 2012 or 2020. Eventually those contacts will bite teams in the ass.

How many of them have actually worked out? Even when they do work out, they hardly ever offer excess value. Lester is mentioned a lot as a success but he had 9 WAR over the life of his Cubs contract. That's $17 mil per WAR.

The Ellsbury contract is also a bit different than the other guys you mentioned. His deal was only 7 years and I'm not opposed to 6-7 year deals. Though I would have been opposed to signing Ellsbury for 7 years. Had Ellsbury lasted the entire 7 years, he would have been 36 at the end of his contract. Betts is going to be 39. That's the difference between a 12 year deal and a 7 year deal though. Makes the younger age they signed almost irrelevant when they get an extra 5 years tacked on to their deal because they happen to hit FA 2 years earlier.

I guess we'll see how Machado, Harper, Betts, Stanton hold up.
 

joe dokes

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My point was to a player of Betts caliber. How many are there?

There are many examples of players who wanted and got longer term deals that were not worth it. Some because they hit FA at an older age and some because a team wanted to make a splash. Robinson Cano/Albert Pujols/Ellsbury come to mind. I do not think Betts fit that mold, and while there would have probably been 2 (maybe 3) years og negative value in the contract, an organization like the Sox couls conceivably endure them. Again, not my money though.

A solution would be for no team to give out more than 6 year deals but that would be collusion and it's happened before, to serious consequences so no.
Since *all* FA deals have some bad years at the end, I suppose the bolded is the key. Sign a guy to a 10-year deal at 25 or 26 and the team ends up with 2 or 3 bad years. At 30, its Cano/Ellsbury territory.
I cant imagine that Bloom will shy away from a "2-3 bad years" 10-year deal. And I dont think Betts is evidence to the contrary, as he got a 12-year deal and there were some extenuating circumstances that Bloom was trying to excavate from.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Since *all* FA deals have some bad years at the end, I suppose the bolded is the key. Sign a guy to a 10-year deal at 25 or 26 and the team ends up with 2 or 3 bad years. At 30, its Cano/Ellsbury territory.
I cant imagine that Bloom will shy away from a "2-3 bad years" 10-year deal. And I dont think Betts is evidence to the contrary, as he got a 12-year deal and there were some extenuating circumstances that Bloom was trying to excavate from.
Ellsbury got 7 years at age 30. Betts got 12 years at age 27. So how does Betts have "less bad years" at the end of his contract if age is the key?

Unless one is making exceptions for Mookie Betts and/or Jacoby Ellsbury, a 7 year deal to a 30 year old is going to have less dead years than a 12 year deal to a 27 year old. If one wants to argue otherwise, I'd love to hear the logic behind it. Again, this is assuming one isn't looking at names and predicting a player to age better or worse than average. This is as a whole.
 

Daniel_Son

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They couldn't endure it in 2012 or 2020. Eventually those contacts will bite teams in the ass.

How many of them have actually worked out? Even when they do work out, they hardly ever offer excess value. Lester is mentioned a lot as a success but he had 9 WAR over the life of his Cubs contract. That's $17 mil per WAR.

The Ellsbury contract is also a bit different than the other guys you mentioned. His deal was only 7 years and I'm not opposed to 6-7 year deals. Though I would have been opposed to signing Ellsbury for 7 years. Had Ellsbury lasted the entire 7 years, he would have been 36 at the end of his contract. Betts is going to be 39. That's the difference between a 12 year deal and a 7 year deal though. Makes the younger age they signed almost irrelevant when they get an extra 5 years tacked on to their deal because they happen to hit FA 2 years earlier.

I guess we'll see how Machado, Harper, Betts, Stanton hold up.
If we're talking about 10+ year deals that have run their course, we really don't have a lot to draw from yet. The only two that spring immediately to mind that were "successful" were Arod v1 (72 WAR produced) and Jeter (41 WAR produced). If we shorten the time length to 8 years, we can include Manny (36.6 WAR ), Helton (33 WAR), and Votto (43 WAR).

A lot of the mega contracts are still underway, so IMO it's difficult to try evaluating their success yet.
 

Cesar Crespo

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If we're talking about 10+ year deals that have run their course, we really don't have a lot to draw from yet. The only two that spring immediately to mind that were "successful" were Arod v1 (72 WAR produced) and Jeter (41 WAR produced). If we shorten the time length to 8 years, we can include Manny (36.6 WAR ), Helton (33 WAR), and Votto (43 WAR).

A lot of the mega contracts are still underway, so IMO it's difficult to try evaluating their success yet.
If Devers would take 8 years at $220-240, I'd be hesitant but ultimately I'd do it. He'd turn 35 right at the end of the contract. I'd guess he'd play the last half of the contract at 1b/DH but would still be hitting decently enough.

The few mega deals I did mention are working out well so far but it's in the early going. Stanton will turn 33 in November and will have 5 years left. Any other mega deals still in question up before that?
 

mikcou

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If Devers would take 8 years at $220-240, I'd be hesitant but ultimately I'd do it. He'd turn 35 right at the end of the contract. I'd guess he'd play the last half of the contract at 1b/DH but would still be hitting decently enough.

The few mega deals I did mention are working out well so far but it's in the early going. Stanton will turn 33 in November and will have 5 years left. Any other mega deals still in question up before that?
He's obviously not signing that. If you're assuming that doesnt include his arb3 year, its a bit of a stretch to say hell be 35 during the deal. That would be the end of October of the last year of the deal. His last year would be his age 34 season for any sort of statistical comparisons. The best way to try to have him off payroll around 35 and have a chance of keeping him is to offer him 10/310 (figure 20M for his last arb year and than $32.5M per afterwards) and see what happens. That would take him through his age 35 season.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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It’s clearly going to require a 10–12 year deal, which maybe they’d do. But isn’t it likely that he’s going to want multiple opt outs? That to me seems like the thing they probably don’t want to agree to, a precedent they don’t want to set.
 

Cesar Crespo

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He's obviously not signing that. If you're assuming that doesnt include his arb3 year, its a bit of a stretch to say hell be 35 during the deal. That would be the end of October of the last year of the deal. His last year would be his age 34 season for any sort of statistical comparisons. The best way to try to have him off payroll around 35 and have a chance of keeping him is to offer him 10/310 (figure 20M for his last arb year and than $32.5M per afterwards) and see what happens. That would take him through his age 35 season.
Yeah, there's no way he'd do it. I'd ultimately let him walk or trade him if I were the GM.
 

azsoxpatsfan

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Once Kike returns, I agree with those saying JBJ should be gone. I love him, but the best team seems like Verdugo, Kike, Duran in the outfield with Franchy at first and RFsnyder playing a bit of both. Arroyo playing occasionally to give guys rest. Dalbec hopefully gone.

The rotation is tougher to figure out. Assuming health, you have Eovaldi, Sale, Pivetta, Wacha, Hill, Whitlock, Winchowski, and Kutter. I love the idea of Whitlock back to the pen, because it’s such a perfect solution to one of the teams biggest issues. Winchowski and Kutter should, IMO, also be moved to the pen or optioned. Once Paxton returns, it might be necessary to move Hill, but his stuff is the polar opposite of the kind of stuff that improves when you move it to the pen. I think he’s done a good job this season, and has definitely exceeded my expectations of him, but I just don’t see how there’s space for him
 

joe dokes

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Ellsbury got 7 years at age 30. Betts got 12 years at age 27. So how does Betts have "less bad years" at the end of his contract if age is the key?

Unless one is making exceptions for Mookie Betts and/or Jacoby Ellsbury, a 7 year deal to a 30 year old is going to have less dead years than a 12 year deal to a 27 year old. If one wants to argue otherwise, I'd love to hear the logic behind it. Again, this is assuming one isn't looking at names and predicting a player to age better or worse than average. This is as a whole.
My post was poorly worded...
I think I was hypothesizing about a 10 year deal to a player of Betts (or Devers's) calibre. The extenuating circumstances about Betts that not signing Betts is not an indication that they wont agree to 10 years, with Devers' given Devers's age.
 

YTF

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Right, but Cron would be playing every day at 1st, which would eat into some of Franchy's playing time.
Yeah, an other consideration would be that Cron's signed through another season at about $7M which isn't a bad thing, but he is purely a first baseman. When Casas finally makes his way to Boston they would have two first base only guys on the team. I'm not sure that lack of flexibility at one position is desirable when you consider the short benches in today's game
 

chawson

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To me, his primary value is as a trade chip in a package for a position of need. The Sox have a couple of those.
I agree he’s a trade chip, but ideally Arroyo’s numbers would’ve caught up to his very good xstats before he’s traded. I was down on him last year, but higher on him now that he drives the ball and can hit RHP. He’s not a star, but he’s been really unlucky.
 

chawson

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Yeah, an other consideration would be that Cron's signed through another season at about $7M which isn't a bad thing, but he is purely a first baseman. When Casas finally makes his way to Boston they would have two first base only guys on the team. I'm not sure that lack of flexibility at one position is desirable when you consider the short benches in today's game
Has there been reports of Cron being on the block or something? What has changed to suggest he’d be moved since Colorado decided not to trade him last deadline and signed him to a 2-year extension since?
 

E5 Yaz

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When Casas finally makes his way to Boston they would have two first base only guys on the team. I'm not sure that lack of flexibility at one position is desirable when you consider the short benches in today's game
Unless, of course, you know, Casas doesn't prove himself to be a major league player
 

dynomite

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Has there been reports of Cron being on the block or something? What has changed to suggest he’d be moved since Colorado decided not to trade him last deadline and signed him to a 2-year extension since?
Well, to be fair, the Rockies are the most inexplicably run organization in MLB at the moment. No one knows what they're up to.

There's a bunch of articles about it, but in short, they traded away Arenado presumably to begin a rebuild and got nothing much in return... then hung onto Story and Jon Gray instead of trading them for prospects, but then let both of them walk instead of extending either... then extended Cron for two years when the team won't be competitive and gave a boatload of money to Kris Bryant... hired a Director of Analytics at the beginning of the offseason and then fired him before the season began... etc.

Frankly, the Rockies SHOULD trade Cron -- and Daniel Bard -- away in July and get some prospects to try to rebuild one of the lowest ranked farm systems In the league. Whether they will do so and at what price it would make sense for the Sox are another matter.
 
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simplicio

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Kiké has no guarantee of being good once he comes back; he really hasn't shown much this season. Really I think our strongest OF right now is Vergudo and two of Franchy/Refsnyder/Duran.
 

joe dokes

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Kiké has no guarantee of being good once he comes back; he really hasn't shown much this season. Really I think our strongest OF right now is Vergudo and two of Franchy/Refsnyder/Duran.
Kiké hasn't resumed any "baseball activities," so no worries about what to do with him just yet.

And the newest candidate in the *he* got a ring?! sweepstakes is Silvino Bracho, who was traded to the Braves for cash considerations after making no appearances for the Sox in his two rostered games.
 

Trlicek's Whip

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Before Story, the biggest FA contract he gave out was Hernandez so it's not like he's been that aggressive in adding payroll. Now, mind you he inherited a big payroll so he hasn't really had to add many big pieces.
To be fair, that contract was signed in January 2021. And while you did acknowledge what Bloom inherited, as others have mentioned January 2021 saw Bloom barely one year into his Boston tenure, amid a pandemic timeline and a 2020 season that wasn't at all traditional. Including the still goofy effects of Alex Cora's return as manager - which I suspect does change how a GM decides to fortify their roster since there were so many contingencies to consider.

I think "very small sample size" with several asterisks is fair when comping Kike's contract and Story's one year later. And I don't think it's edge-casing to consider this past winter (featuring the Story signing) more demonstrative of how Bloom will assess the market and the team's strengths and weaknesses when allocating money and resources.
 

cantor44

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It's nice to see productive play from Cordero and Refsnyder - both seem super likable. Though I would suggest we temper our enthusiasm. Maybe they can keep it going, but ...It would be an incredible act of late blooming if Refsnyder has suddenly become a major league starter. Franchy's SS is too small still, though of course there are encouraging signs. Both, to me, seem like good bench guys. Would still like to see the team trade for RHH/switch hitting First Baseman ...as posters point out availability is the question, but a guy like Bell or Cron would lengthen the line up.

It is a bit of a mind bender that probably the team's three best arms (Sale, Eovaldi, Whitlock) are all not pitching, and the Sox are playing as well as they are. All three due back relatively soon - assuming other guys don't get hurt in turn - their additions will supercharge the team. If the bullpen needs 2 or 3 arms - there are two of them (Whitlock to pen, and one of the current starters to pen, too) ...

So, there's hope!
 

Daniel_Son

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It's nice to see productive play from Cordero and Refsnyder - both seem super likable. Though I would suggest we temper our enthusiasm. Maybe they can keep it going, but ...It would be an incredible act of late blooming if Refsnyder has suddenly become a major league starter. Franchy's SS is too small still, though of course there are encouraging signs. Both, to me, seem like good bench guys. Would still like to see the team trade for RHH/switch hitting First Baseman ...as posters point out availability is the question, but a guy like Bell or Cron would lengthen the line up.

It is a bit of a mind bender that probably the team's three best arms (Sale, Eovaldi, Whitlock) are all not pitching, and the Sox are playing as well as they are. All three due back relatively soon - assuming other guys don't get hurt in turn - their additions will supercharge the team. If the bullpen needs 2 or 3 arms - there are two of them (Whitlock to pen, and one of the current starters to pen, too) ...

So, there's hope!
Fair point on Refsnyder, but I think there's a little more reason to be optimistic about Cordero. As other posters alluded to above, his peripherals have always put him in elite company. He just hasn't translated it to major league success before this year. A guy who hits the ball as hard as he does is going to get on base as long as he cuts down his Ks and hits it in the air - which he has done very effectively this year.

I think he's been a breakout candidate for a long time, and we're all going to be very impressed with his numbers at the end of the season.
 
It's nice to see productive play from Cordero and Refsnyder - both seem super likable. Though I would suggest we temper our enthusiasm. Maybe they can keep it going, but ...It would be an incredible act of late blooming if Refsnyder has suddenly become a major league starter. Franchy's SS is too small still, though of course there are encouraging signs. Both, to me, seem like good bench guys. Would still like to see the team trade for RHH/switch hitting First Baseman ...as posters point out availability is the question, but a guy like Bell or Cron would lengthen the line up.

It is a bit of a mind bender that probably the team's three best arms (Sale, Eovaldi, Whitlock) are all not pitching, and the Sox are playing as well as they are. All three due back relatively soon - assuming other guys don't get hurt in turn - their additions will supercharge the team. If the bullpen needs 2 or 3 arms - there are two of them (Whitlock to pen, and one of the current starters to pen, too) ...

So, there's hope!
Fair point on Refsnyder, but I think there's a little more reason to be optimistic about Cordero. As other posters alluded to above, his peripherals have always put him in elite company. He just hasn't translated it to major league success before this year. A guy who hits the ball as hard as he does is going to get on base as long as he cuts down his Ks and hits it in the air - which he has done very effectively this year.

I think he's been a breakout candidate for a long time, and we're all going to be very impressed with his numbers at the end of the season.
I agree with @Daniel_Son. Franchy and Refsnyder aren't really comparable here. There's nothing in Refsynder's career that I'm aware of to suggest a breakout, and like @cantor44 mentioned he's 31 and it's rare for hitters to make major advances at that point. But still, one can hope.

Franchy on the other hand has always had elite skills that have been held back by too many strikeouts and poor contact. This year he has cut his K rate significantly, and no @cantor44, it's not too small of a sample size to suggest that change is real. Breaking out at 27 is certainly late-bloomer territory but hardly unheard of. It takes only 60 plate appearances for strikeout rate to stabilize, and Franchy has nearly three times that number. If Franchy really has cut his K rate by 10% and added 2.5% to his BB rate, there's every reason to believe that his breakout is real. So far his batted ball results have really lagged what they should have produced, but even if that difference is "real" and not just due to luck then Franchy has still broken out in a meaningful way. Franchy is a 2-3 win player this season, which is really valuable considering how cheap he is. And there's still a lot of room for upside.
 

Lose Remerswaal

Experiencing Furry Panic
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
I think they can start by dumping Robles for just about anyone in the WooSox pen. I have no idea why Cora has any confidence left in the guy.
Because thru two weeks ago he had pitched 20 times and only gave up runs in 6 outings. And he was nearly perfect all of April. Maybe he only pitches well when the team stinks?
 

Petagine in a Bottle

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 13, 2021
6,634
This is who Robles is; he’s always been a guy who can be dominating for stretches and then a guy who is terrible. When he’s giving up a lot of homers, like he is this year, he’s useless.