Red Sox end of season press conference

soxhop411

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View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97rsDtn_Po4
Alex Speier
@alexspeier

·
15m

Kennedy on whether ownership did enough for the 2024 team: “No. we’re not there. That’s on us.”
Alex Speier
@alexspeier


Kennedy on why fans should believe owners’ commitment: “We have to let our actions speak louder than our words…We feel that burning urgency to get back to the postseason.”
PC is happening now. some threads from reporters highlighting some thing said (so far)
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1840813387674177971.html
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1840813951245864963?refresh=1727721255
 
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Max Power

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That still YouTube is using is perfect.

Edit: Looks like it changes. Too bad. The one where Cora and Kennedy looked like someone ran over their dog was apt.
 
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astrozombie

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Simply magical. "Believe our actions, not our words. Our actions show we didn't do enough and we know that. So even though our actions fell short, believe our words when we tell you that we're really committed to winning."

ETA: this quote is madeup (see my post below)
 
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Trapaholic

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Simply magical. "Believe our actions, not our words. Our actions show we didn't do enough and we know that. So even though our actions fell short, believe our words when we tell you that we're really committed to winning."
Cannot make this stuff up. What a quote. I can pretty much guarantee that no one believes their words, but how nice of them to confirm that we should not.
 

moondog80

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I get it, but what are they supposed to do? List out the precise list of moves they intend to make?
 

astrozombie

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Before this gets out of control, I was conflating the two posts that @soxhop411 had made in the original post:
1. Kennedy on whether ownership did enough for the 2024 team: “No. we’re not there. That’s on us.”
2. Kennedy on why fans should believe owners’ commitment: “We have to let our actions speak louder than our words…We feel that burning urgency to get back to the postseason.”

My quote was madeup, intended to be a (humorous) summary of what was said based on the two things above. That said, the sentiment is the same: ownership is asking fans to believe that their actions speak louder than words, but also the words sound a lot better than their actions, so actually just go ahead and believe those.
 

8slim

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There's no point in watching that, so I won't. They'll either do, or not do, this offseason. There is no try, and talk is worthless.
 

moondog80

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There's no point in watching that, so I won't. They'll either do, or not do, this offseason. There is no try, and talk is worthless.
Yeah. I did follow it, but now matter what they said, I'm either going to be satisfied with the offseason or I won't. Today has zero to do with it.
 

dynomite

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There's no point in watching that, so I won't. They'll either do, or not do, this offseason. There is no try, and talk is worthless.
This is correct.

If there's urgency to make the playoffs in 2025, there's plenty of ways to demonstrate that instead of another offseason spent parsing what "full throttle" means.

And hopefully next season our big pitching acquisition, starting SS, and starting 1B don't all go down for 5+ months by mid-April.
 
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simplicio

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From Speier's account:

"Cora says Sox have been talking to players about physicality, with possibility that team wants players to get stronger to withstand the season workload.

Cora cites the physicality of the Cleveland bullpen as an aspirational model to help the pitchers be more consistent."


I hope this means they're taking steps to continue hitting throughout the season instead of falling off a cliff in August. Wrt Cleveland's bullpen, I don't know that team well enough to track what he's talking about there, any ideas?
 

Philip Jeff Frye

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And hopefully next season our big pitching acquisition, starting SS, and starting 1B don't all go down for 5+ months by mid-April.
Not to pick on you particularly, but the injuries excuse is increasingly lame, especially when it seems to come up every year lately.

The Braves lost Strider for virtually the entire season and Acuna for most of the season - they are far better players than anybody the Sox missed this year - but they still made the playoffs. They had a bunch of other key players miss significant time.

The Dodgers pitching staff was beset with injury after injury and they lost Mookie and Max Muncy for long stretches, but they won 98 games.

The Yankees lost Cole, Rizzo, and Stanton for parts of the season. Shane Bieber missed almost the entire year for the Guardians. Christian Yelich and Devin Williams both missed significant time for the Brewers.

Injuries happen. Being healthy is better than being not healthy, but good teams manage to overcome injuries. Good front offices build depth and make trades to overcome injuries. Why can't we do these things?
 
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simplicio

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The Sox had more days missed to injuries that occurred this year than any other team (LAD had more total but knew about Gonsolin, May and Kershaw going into the offseason and were able to plan accordingly).
https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/injured/_/year/2024/view/team

You're partially right about the depth part, but as to "why can't we do these things" the answer is: we are. When the starters all broke at the same time in 2022 we had to bring Crawford up and he wasn't ready. Now he's giving us 180 innings. David Hamilton was worse than useless last year, this year he was our best 2B. We started this year without a single pitcher in the minors ready to contribute, now we've seen positive results from Fitts, Priester, Booser, Guerrero, maybe Penrod and Shugart too. Fun fact: Guerrero was the first of Bloom's draft picks to make the majors. Development takes time.
 

nvalvo

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There's no point in watching that, so I won't. They'll either do, or not do, this offseason. There is no try, and talk is worthless.
This is correct.

If there's urgency to make the playoffs in 2025, there's plenty of ways to demonstrate that instead of another offseason spent parsing what "full throttle" means.

And hopefully next season our big pitching acquisition, starting SS, and starting 1B don't all go down for 5+ months by mid-April.
THAT'S WHAT SAM KENNEDY SAID.

He said, and I'm paraphrasing, ownership thought this edition was a winner; that didn't materialize. They are committed to getting into the postseason in 2025, but he understands that there's nothing he can say that will make people believe that: they have to show us.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Not to pick on you particularly, but the injuries excuse is increasingly lame, especially when it seems to come up every year lately.

The Braves lost Strider for virtually the entire season and Acuna for most of the season - they are far better players than anybody the Sox missed this year - but they still made the playoffs. They had a bunch of other key players miss significant time.
The Red Sox were a wildcard team at best going into the season (not just of their roster quality but because the O's and Yankees were clearly better). So when they lost some key players, that was enough to cause their chances to make the post-season to slip. For a team most predicted to win 75-80 games before the injuries, finishing at .500 isn't necessarily a negative. It's arguably impressive. Meanwhile the Braves were a pre-season favorite to not just win the NL East, but to win the World Series. ESPN had them as their consensus pick to win it all. MLB.com had them as #1 in their preseason power rankings. So losing a couple key players caused them to slip to a position where they had to win game 162 just to get into the post-season. Hard to argue that they weathered their injuries as well or better just because they barely snuck into the playoffs. The teams weren't on the same level to start with.
 

8slim

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THAT'S WHAT SAM KENNEDY SAID.

He said, and I'm paraphrasing, ownership thought this edition was a winner; that didn't materialize. They are committed to getting into the postseason in 2025, but he understands that there's nothing he can say that will make people believe that: they have to show us.
Why are you yelling? Sam Kennedy has been spinning bullshit for a couple years running. Now he knows he can't sell nonsense anymore since the on field results have stunk. Hooray for him that he acknowledged reality. He gets 10 Schrute bucks and 50 points for Hufflepuff.
 

chawson

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Why are you yelling? Sam Kennedy has been spinning bullshit for a couple years running. Now he knows he can't sell nonsense anymore since the on field results have stunk. Hooray for him that he acknowledged reality. He gets 10 Schrute bucks and 50 points for Hufflepuff.
I can’t speak for nvalvo but for me, part of the frustration is this tiresome practice of summoning outrage over anything said in these pressers.

Personally, I just can’t get worked up about them. It’s just a pro forma media appearance. They’re not going to give away strategy (and shouldn’t), they’re not going to say anything that blames or demoralizes players on their roster (and shouldn’t), they’re not going to talk about payroll (and shouldn’t), and they’re not going to promise any specific transactions (and shouldn’t). Yet they still have to do them.

The fact of the matter, in my opinion, is that the Red Sox were probably smart to not shell out a bunch of money last winter for most of the guys we discussed. There’s some gray area to that sentiment — Imanaga, as we discussed, would have looked good in the rotation, but he reportedly wanted to be in Chicago and turned down more money to sign there — but in the vast majority of cases, I think we’re in a better position now than we’d be if we had.

I don’t think that’s true going forward. It’s time for one or several big splashes, and we’ll get them. But the best way they could handle these press conferences is by saying what they did.
 

8slim

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I can’t speak for nvalvo but for me, part of the frustration is this tiresome practice of summoning outrage over anything said in these pressers.

Personally, I just can’t get worked up about them. It’s just a pro forma media appearance. They’re not going to give away strategy (and shouldn’t), they’re not going to say anything that blames or demoralizes players on their roster (and shouldn’t), they’re not going to talk about payroll (and shouldn’t), and they’re not going to promise any specific transactions (and shouldn’t). Yet they still have to do them.

The fact of the matter, in my opinion, is that the Red Sox were probably smart to not shell out a bunch of money last winter for most of the guys we discussed. There’s some gray area to that sentiment — Imanaga, as we discussed, would have looked good in the rotation, but he reportedly wanted to be in Chicago and turned down more money to sign there — but in the vast majority of cases, I think we’re in a better position now than we’d be if we had.

I don’t think that’s true going forward. It’s time for one or several big splashes, and we’ll get them. But the best way they could handle these press conferences is by saying what they did.
That's fine but I didn't summon outrage. I literally said I wouldn't listen to the presser because it matters precisely 0%.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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Wacha, Lugo, Manaea, Imanaga, Flaherty, Lorenzen, Gray, Severino- the mid tier FA pitching marketplace offered pretty great value last offseason. The Sox should have been more active, IMO. Look at the Royals; they were mocked here for adding the guys they did to a team that was going nowhere, and look at them.
 

chawson

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Wacha, Lugo, Manaea, Imanaga, Flaherty, Lorenzen, Gray, Severino- the mid tier FA pitching marketplace offered pretty great value last offseason. The Sox should have been more active, IMO. Look at the Royals; they were mocked here for adding the guys they did to a team that was going nowhere, and look at them.
The Royals have a tremendous defense, are elite at controlling the running game, and play in a pitchers park. It’s much less the case that Lugo, Lorenzen, and Wacha are essentially good than they are a few guys who benefited from all that. (They were also 12-1 against the worst team of all time.)

From our perch today, the upside in our case is that we have mini-breakouts from Houck, Crawford, and Bello. They weren’t going to put Pivetta in the pen. And they signed Giolito for the last piece. (That Giolito got hurt in spring training is back luck.)

The decision to clear three starting rotation lanes for Bello, Crawford, Houck, and Whitlock to emerge helps us in 2025 and beyond more than it would have to sign one of those guys. Anyone else we would have added to the mix would have precluded or forestalled those breakouts.
 

Trapaholic

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Wacha, Lugo, Manaea, Imanaga, Flaherty, Lorenzen, Gray, Severino- the mid tier FA pitching marketplace offered pretty great value last offseason. The Sox should have been more active, IMO. Look at the Royals; they were mocked here for adding the guys they did to a team that was going nowhere, and look at them.
I agree with this, insofar as they were 1 or 2 MLB level pitchers short most of the year. I have mentioned it on here before, but this team had Rich Hill and Brad Keller pitching in high leverage games when they still had a legit shot at a wild card spot.

Chawson is correct in that the Royals were a more fundamentally sound team that played in a park that suited their type of game. Anyone who pitched for the Red Sox was going to have a leaky defense behind them. The moves that were made to shore up the bullpen backfired, but I didn't mind the process that went into making the moves. It would have been nice if Breslow et all got out ahead of the bullpen additions instead of waiting for the end of July when the bullpen had already melted down from fatigue and poor performance. The pitching depth cratered right when the team needed it the most.
 
Mar 30, 2023
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The decision to clear three starting rotation lanes for Bello, Crawford, Houck, and Whitlock to emerge helps us in 2025 and beyond more than it would have to sign one of those guys. Anyone else we would have added to the mix would have precluded or forestalled those breakouts.
I'm sorry -- those breakouts?! What? Kutter Crawford is 28 years old and was a below-league average pitcher this year who led the league in home runs allowed. Garrett Whitlock pitched 18 innings this year, is also 28, and has never topped 80 in a single season in his entire career. Bello is at least legitimately young and promising, but he was also a below league average pitcher this year.

What universe are you living in where the Red Sox would have been worse off if Shota Imanaga had deprived them of the production provided by Kutter Crawford and Garrett Whitlock, to say nothing of the 50 games started by Nick Pivetta (who has no future with the organization), Cooper Criswell, and Josh Winckowski?

And let's be clear about another thing here: there was no "decision" to clear rotation spots for those guys. The Red Sox's goal last offseason was to sign two free agent pitchers. They signed one who didn't make it out of Spring Training and then got outbid on countless others (Imanaga, Lugo, Yamamoto, etc.), leaving them with no choice but to put these guys in the rotation. At no point was that Plan A.
 
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Big Papi's Mango Salsa

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I'm sorry -- those breakouts?! What? Kutter Crawford is 28 years old and was a below-league average pitcher this year who led the league in home runs allowed. Garrett Whitlock pitched 18 innings this year, is also 28, and has never topped 80 in a single season in his entire career. Bello is at least legitimately young and promising, but he was also a below league average pitcher this year.

What universe are you living in where the Red Sox would have been worse off if Shota Imanaga had deprived them of the production provided by Kutter Crawford and Garrett Whitlock, to say nothing of the 50 games started by Nick Pivetta (who has no future with the organization), Cooper Criswell, and Josh Winckowski?

And let's be clear about another thing here: there was no "decision" to clear rotation spots for those guys. The Red Sox's goal last offseason was to sign two free agent pitchers. They signed one who didn't make it out of Spring Training and then got outbid on countless others (Imanaga, Lugo, Yamamoto, etc.), leaving them with no choice but to put these guys in the rotation. At no point was that Plan A.

I believe that it's mostly semantics and you're arguing about the "breakout" but similarly, I think it's equally unfair to call Crawford and Bello "below average" - at least in my opinion.

I understand the ERA+ below 100 (and thus below average) but I think it's also discounting the value of someone taking the ball 30x a season and giving the team a chance to win more often than not, especially with the plethora of "worthless" or "injured" that has permeated the roster of the Boston Red Sox for the better part of the past half decade, but YMMV.

In terms of bWAR among SPs Crawford was 52nd and Bello was 80th in the league. Is that awesome - no, certainly not. Does it still put them both well among "decent" starting pitching in the game - certainly. Figure there are 30 clubs, each with 3 starting pitchers in the top half of rotations is 90 (and it's 75 if you want to call it 2.5). Give the team another (ish) 15 starts of that type of pitching - which is I think what they were hoping for with Paxton and they're probably in the playoffs. Again - we're not talking about Cy Young candidates, to be clear, but I don't think it's fair to call them below average either.

Had they done that for 15 games and gotten hurt - I'd agree. Taking the ball for 30 and doing that has real value to an organization and probably shouldn't be minimized.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/majors/2024-standard-pitching.shtml
 
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nvalvo

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Why are you yelling? Sam Kennedy has been spinning bullshit for a couple years running. Now he knows he can't sell nonsense anymore since the on field results have stunk. Hooray for him that he acknowledged reality. He gets 10 Schrute bucks and 50 points for Hufflepuff.
Please excuse the yelling, but for some reason this completely innocuous person who does not actually make any important baseball decisions has his words scrutinized like he’s the Fed Chairman.
 
Mar 30, 2023
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I believe that it's mostly semantics and you're arguing about the "breakout" but similarly, I think it's equally unfair to call Crawford and Bello "below average" - at least in my opinion.

I understand the ERA+ below 100 (and thus below average) but I think it's also discounting the value of someone taking the ball 30x a season and giving the team a chance to win more often than not, especially with the plethora of "blah" and "injured" that the Sox rotation has been for the better part of the last 10 seasons, though YMMV.

In terms of bWAR among SPs Crawford was 52nd and Bello was 80th in the league. Is that awesome - no, certainly not. Does it still put them both well among "decent" starting pitching in the game - certainly. Figure there are 30 clubs, each with 3 starting pitchers in the top half of rotations is 90 (and it's 75 if you want to call it 2.5). Give the team another (ish) 15 starts of that type of pitching - which is I think what they were hoping for with Paxton and they're probably in the playoffs. Again - we're not talking about Cy Young candidates, to be clear, but I don't think it's fair to call them below average either.

Had they done that for 15 games and gotten hurt - I'd agree. Taking the ball for 30 and doing that has real value to an organization and probably shouldn't be minimized.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/majors/2024-standard-pitching.shtml
Ok, sure: Crawford and Bello were both "decent" pitchers this year (who also happened to be below league average according to the most commonly used statistic to measure pitcher production). That does not mean the Red Sox are better off for having not signed Shota Imanaga because hey, now we know we have a couple of guys who would be decent options to fill out the back half of a rotation on a good team.

And, again, what's more pertinent for this conversation is the fact that the Red Sox did not deliberately decide to pass on free agent pitchers in order to "see what the kids can do." They said they were going to sign multiple pitchers, they tried and failed to sign multiple pitchers, and then they went into damage control mode. I just cant believe people bought it.
 
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Montana Fan

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Please excuse the yelling, but for some reason this completely innocuous person who does not actually make any important baseball decisions has his words scrutinized like he’s the Fed Chairman.
That’s what the ignore button is for. I was 99% sure who the poster was that you and Chawson were calling out. Had Rovin Romine ignored him last offseason I believe he’d likely still be posting here, well that and not being an asshole to the dope.
 

TomRicardo

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THAT'S WHAT SAM KENNEDY SAID.

He said, and I'm paraphrasing, ownership thought this edition was a winner; that didn't materialize. They are committed to getting into the postseason in 2025, but he understands that there's nothing he can say that will make people believe that: they have to show us.
Ownership thought this was a winning team? Does Sam Kennedy watch baseball?
 

TomRicardo

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That’s what the ignore button is for. I was 99% sure who the poster was that you and Chawson were calling out. Had Rovin Romine ignored him last offseason I believe he’d likely still be posting here, well that and not being an asshole to the dope.
The losses keep stacking up with Kennedy.

 

Montana Fan

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The losses keep stacking up with Kennedy.
I get it and haven’t been completely pleased with the Sox’ direction but the strides made by many of our minor leaguers as well as a few major leaguers has me optimistic going forward. We have a great hole without Larry Lucchino and ownership has been flailing around trying to find a new voice.

I have no doubt that they will strike this offseason. It’s the right play, the last couple years weren’t.
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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Ok, sure: Crawford and Bello were both "decent" pitchers this year (who also happened to be below league average according to the most commonly used statistic to measure pitcher production). That does not mean the Red Sox are better off for having not signed Shota Imanaga because hey, now we know we have a couple of guys who would be decent options to fill out the back half of a rotation on a good team.

And, again, what's more pertinent for this conversation is the fact that the Red Sox did not deliberately decide to pass on free agent pitchers in order to "see what the kids can do." They said they were going to sign multiple pitchers, they tried and failed to sign multiple pitchers, and then they went into damage control mode. I just cant believe people bought it.
I'm looking more at how Houck, Bello and Crawford performed in the 2nd half and Bello really turned it around. I suspect out of the three he'll be the best pitcher of the bunch next season- possibly top 15 in MLB. I expect some regression from Houck but still a very high performance- top 25 in MLB. Crawford I'm unsure about but I think he should have some better luck on HR's and that'll be a massive improvement if nothing else improves. He could at least be what we were hoping Pivetta would be- a guy with a 30+ starts on a consistent basis with a 4.10ish ERA and some stretches of greatness framed in by some horrifying stretches. That's incredibly valuable....
 

dynomite

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That's fine but I didn't summon outrage. I literally said I wouldn't listen to the presser because it matters precisely 0%.
I for one don't see what you said that was problematic, especially since I agreed.

And a response in ALL CAPS doesn't make what you said untrue. I'm glad that it sounds like both the front office and fans are clear that what they say at this point is irrelevant, what matters is a) how they behave this offseason, and b) how they play next season.

Hard to argue that [the Braves] weathered their injuries as well or better just because they barely snuck into the playoffs. The teams weren't on the same level to start with.
Not to pick on you particularly, but the injuries excuse is increasingly lame, especially when it seems to come up every year lately.
...
Injuries happen. Being healthy is better than being not healthy, but good teams manage to overcome injuries. Good front offices build depth and make trades to overcome injuries. Why can't we do these things?
It's funny -- I've been making your point elsewhere on this board for a few years now. But that context wasn't in my post, so you I don't disagree with your thoughts.

The Brewers, in particular, I noted elsewhere are a frustrating counterpoint to the 2024 Red Sox. They also traded their ace starter before the season (Burnes vs. Sale), lost two of their best players for significant time as you noted... and yet won 93 games and made the playoffs thanks in part to filling similar gaps in their roster.

The position player they got for Burnes (Joey Ortiz) was very good, their starting pitching acquisitions of Frankie Montas and Aaron Civale made chicken salad out of chicken... stuff, and they turned Tobias Myers -- a former prospect and double DFA castoff in 2022 -- into a mid-rotation starter.

I think @Red(s)HawksFan answered the difference between the Braves and Red Sox. To add to it:

The Braves won 104 games last year, and this season they won 89 games and made the playoffs by 1 game in Game 162. So their baseline -- if Strider and Acuña and Austin Riley and Ozzie Albies and Michael Harris and others had remained healthy -- was probably 95-100 wins. Those injuries, you could argue, cost them 6-10 wins (this is back of the napkin stuff, I'm not looking into WAR).

The Red Sox won 78 games last year, and won 81 games this year, missing the playoffs by 5 games. I have two responses here:

1) The 2024 Red Sox had bad luck. How many more games do they win if even 2 of Giolito, Story, Casas, Grissom and Whitlock stay healthy? I think 4-5 is realistic (Story alone was worth 2.5 WAR in 2022 when he only played 94 games).

2) To your point, the 2024 Red Sox failed in painful and glaring ways to address this bad luck. Back to the Brewers. They acted decisively in early July, deciding to buy and correctly identifying the two Starting Pitchers they needed to bolster their rotation. Now to the Braves. They traded for Jorge Soler, they called up Ramon Laureano from AAA, and had turned White Sox swingman castoff Reynaldo Lopez into a Cy Young candidate, so losing Strider wasn't as painful. The Red Sox made incredible strides with Houck and early results elsewhere looked promising, but got a rough finish (for example: after his solid 1st half, Kutter Crawford's 6.56 ERA in the 2nd half was part of what went wrong in August). Their trade deadline acquisitions were roughly uniformly disastrous, and while they made a few solid depth signings (Dom Smith in particular) they didn't add up to a successful season.

I blame both bad luck and bad decision making for why the Red Sox are cleaning out their lockers today instead of getting ready to play Game 1 in Houston or Baltimore.
 
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JimD

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I've given this ownership group the benefit of the doubt in recent offseasons, but I'm done. They deserve all of the scorn from the fanbase until they prove with their spending that they deserve our support.

I'm not giving Craig Breslow a pass either - he still has to prove himself. We all knew that his hands would be tied by the ownership's budget limitations but I was hoping that he'd bring some smarts and more boldness than Chaim exhibited and that did not materialize at the trade deadline.

It just sucks because a playoff berth was there to be had and they couldn't overcome their mediocrity. A race to the wire and even just a few wild-card games would have provided some valuable experience for the young guys on this team.
 

Hank Scorpio

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Kutter Crawford is pretty interesting and has a lot of room to improve, if he can get his HR rate under control. Most of his rate stats are right there with top of the rotation guys...

WHIP:
Crawford 1.12 (#19 of 59 qualified starters / better than league average of 1.27)
Houck 1.14
Fried 1.16
Valdez 1.11
Eovaldi 1.11
Burnes 1.10

K/9:
Crawford 8.6 (#28 of 59 qualified starters / right at league average of 8.6)
Valdez 8.6
Fried 8.6
Imanaga 9.0
Eovaldi 8.8
Nola 8.9
Burnes 8.4

H/9:
Crawford 7.6 (#16 of 59 qualified starters / better than league average of 8.3)
Fried 7.5
Burnes 7.6
Gray 7.7
Lugo 7.7
Imanaga 7.7
Flaherty 7.5

BB/9:
Crawford 2.5 (#28 of 59 qualified starters / better than league average of 3.1)
Houck 2.4
Wacha 2.4
Nola 2.3
Burnes 2.2
Valdez 2.8

HR/9:
Crawford 1.7 (#59 of 59 qualified starters / worse than league average of 1.1)

If he's able to get his gopher-itis down to league average, he's probably a borderline All Star.

It's a question I'd love to ask Breslow or Bailey... how difficult is it to fix a pitcher who's only real fault is giving up a bunch of long balls?
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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Kutter Crawford is pretty interesting and has a lot of room to improve, if he can get his HR rate under control. Most of his rate stats are right there with top of the rotation guys...

WHIP:
Crawford 1.12 (#19 of 59 qualified starters / better than league average of 1.27)
Houck 1.14
Fried 1.16
Valdez 1.11
Eovaldi 1.11
Burnes 1.10

K/9:
Crawford 8.6 (#28 of 59 qualified starters / right at league average of 8.6)
Valdez 8.6
Fried 8.6
Imanaga 9.0
Eovaldi 8.8
Nola 8.9
Burnes 8.4

H/9:
Crawford 7.6 (#16 of 59 qualified starters / better than league average of 8.3)
Fried 7.5
Burnes 7.6
Gray 7.7
Lugo 7.7
Imanaga 7.7
Flaherty 7.5

BB/9:
Crawford 2.5 (#28 of 59 qualified starters / better than league average of 3.1)
Houck 2.4
Wacha 2.4
Nola 2.3
Burnes 2.2
Valdez 2.8

HR/9:
Crawford 1.7 (#59 of 59 qualified starters / worse than league average of 1.1)

If he's able to get his gopher-itis down to league average, he's probably a borderline All Star.

It's a question I'd love to ask Breslow or Bailey... how difficult is it to fix a pitcher who's only real fault is giving up a bunch of long balls?
I really don't know.... but hasn't there been a lot of evidence to suggest that this is "pitch sequencing". When hitters get into certain counts, they're more certain with Crawford exactly what's coming down (and straight down) the zone? A lot of people here blamed Wong for this but wasn't this more on whoever was actually calling the pitches? Or was Crawford tipping certain pitches.
I also suspect that a certain percentage of those HR's were just dumb luck and with a slight down turn luck correction, he'll turn into a very valuable starter if not a top "1 or 2" in a good rotation.
 

Big Papi's Mango Salsa

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Ok, sure: Crawford and Bello were both "decent" pitchers this year (who also happened to be below league average according to the most commonly used statistic to measure pitcher production). That does not mean the Red Sox are better off for having not signed Shota Imanaga because hey, now we know we have a couple of guys who would be decent options to fill out the back half of a rotation on a good team.

And, again, what's more pertinent for this conversation is the fact that the Red Sox did not deliberately decide to pass on free agent pitchers in order to "see what the kids can do." They said they were going to sign multiple pitchers, they tried and failed to sign multiple pitchers, and then they went into damage control mode. I just cant believe people bought it.
Totally fair.

I'd say that the presence (and upside - or at least "unknown") of Bello, Houck and Crawford excuses(d) the Red Sox from signing the one year "meh" deals in order to continue finding out what they have in the system. But I'd also agree that their presence in no way excuses the Red Sox for not going out and signing a "one."

I'm still not upset they didn't give one year deals to guys that worked (Flaherty, Wacha) or guys that didn't (Lorenzen; not paying Paxton). At a certain level, I'll make the exact same argument this year - as in I have no interest in giving turns in the rotation to Ross Stripling or Lorenzen (again) over Priester or Fitts.

But I'll be equally upset if they don't go out and acquire someone that should slot in to the top of the rotation. Just like Houck, Bello and Crawford last year, the presence of Fitts, Priester and Giolito doesn't excuse them from getting someone you'd want to give the ball in Game 1 of the playoffs.
 

dynomite

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I've given this ownership group the benefit of the doubt in recent offseasons, but I'm done. They deserve all of the scorn from the fanbase until they prove with their spending that they deserve our support.

I'm not giving Craig Breslow a pass either - he still has to prove himself. We all knew that his hands would be tied by the ownership's budget limitations but I was hoping that he'd bring some smarts and more boldness than Chaim exhibited and that did not materialize at the trade deadline.

It just sucks because a playoff berth was there to be had and they couldn't overcome their mediocrity. A race to the wire and even just a few wild-card games would have provided some valuable experience for the young guys on this team.
I have to say I agree with this point of view. After 2018, I said I would refuse to criticize the team for the next 5 seasons. They had earned that at least, in my opinion.

But now... while I'm sure many are not eager to rehash months of debates in here, and I really appreciate @Rovin Romine especially for providing the "be patient" perspective... I strongly disagreed in January/February/March that competing in 2024 necessarily meant sacrificing the chance to compete in 2025 and beyond, and I still feel that way.

Those of us on this board aren't front office executives (unless there are folks lurking!). I don't think the fact that many of us wanted the Sox to sign Jordan Montgomery when he was the last dog left at the bowl in March doesn't mean we were "wrong" -- the feeling that the Red Sox were short a few pieces turned out to be correct.

The fact remains that if the Red Sox had better identified pitchers (Breslow's supposed strength) -- trading for relief pitchers in July who didn't pour gasoline on the bullpen fire would have helped, as would signing, say, Sonny Gray or Reynaldo Lopez, or signing/trading for Aaron Civale, Frankie Montas, or Martín Perez -- the Sox could be getting ready to play in Baltimore or Houston right now.

And to the point of the playoffs always being worth striving for, we saw an 84-win team make the World Series just last year (DBacks), and an 87-win team the year before (Phillies). Part of Theo Epstein and other's whole philosophy -- especially with a 3rd Wild Card and (in my opinion) too many playoff teams -- is to make it to October baseball and see what happens. The Red Sox have now failed to do that 3 years in a row. That's a shame.

But I'll be equally upset if they don't go out and acquire someone that should slot in to the top of the rotation. Just like Houck, Bello and Crawford last year, the presence of Fitts, Priester and Giolito doesn't excuse them from getting someone you'd want to give the ball in Game 1 of the playoffs.
Strongly agree with this.
 
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Max Power

thai good. you like shirt?
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Those of us on this board aren't front office executives (unless there are folks lurking!). I don't think the fact that many of us wanted the Sox to sign Jordan Montgomery when he was the last dog left at the bowl in March doesn't mean we were "wrong" -- the feeling that the Red Sox were short a few pieces turned out to be correct.
I think the disagreement is about which pieces they were short of. Talking about missing on Lorenzen or Imanaga is missing the point. As the season played out, the team was actually okay on mid-rotation staters. The issue was the feast or famine offense, the terrible defense, and the homers given up by the pen.
 

simplicio

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No, not yet.

Breslow has said earlier this year that he wanted to add a GM in the offseason. I'd guess he may have someone in mind from the Cubs once his hiring ban expires.
 

dynomite

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I think the disagreement is about which pieces they were short of. Talking about missing on Lorenzen or Imanaga is missing the point. As the season played out, the team was actually okay on mid-rotation staters. The issue was the feast or famine offense, the terrible defense, and the homers given up by the pen.
My sense is some people -- and I could be wrong! -- didn't care much about the 2024 Red Sox and never took them seriously as a playoff contender. Or didn't think it was possible to do more in 2024 without sacrificing their plans for 2025, 2026, and beyond, so they were fine with the team treading water.

To your point, fair enough, although I disagree on pitching to an extent.

I hate to use the best case scenario as a ding against the front office, but Reynaldo Lopez even at the beginning of last offseason was a perfect guy for the Red Sox to take a chance on -- he had been an elite reliever, had high leverage stuff, and had the potential (which he of course realized this year) to be a strong starting pitcher. For a team with so many question marks across the rotation and bullpen, he would have given us another versatile weapon like Whitlock and Houck.

Anyway, yes, different trees, same forest.
 
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Steve Dillard

wishes drew noticed him instead of sweet & sour
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Those of us on this board aren't front office executives (unless there are folks lurking!). I don't think the fact that many of us wanted the Sox to sign Jordan Montgomery when he was the last dog left at the bowl in March doesn't mean we were "wrong" -- the feeling that the Red Sox were short a few pieces turned out to be correct.
Arizona feels differently:
Team owner Ken Kendrick knows exactly whom to blame for at least one of those moves: himself.

"If anyone wants to blame anyone for Jordan Montgomery being a Diamondback, you're talking to the guy that should be blamed," Kendrick told Arizona Sports. "Because I brought it to [the front office's] attention. I pushed for it. They agreed to it -- it wasn't in our game plan. You know when he was signed -- right at the end of spring training. And looking back, in hindsight, a horrible decision to invest that money in a guy who performed as poorly as he did. It's our biggest mistake this season from a talent standpoint. And I'm the perpetrator of that."
I'm most excited about what assets they have now, meaning they can be competitive for the next five years.
 

lexrageorge

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I for one am thrilled that the Sox avoided the Jordan Montgomery disaster. They now have resources to get a real pitcher, not someone that had a 2 month run among a career of mediocrity.
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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The fact remains that if the Red Sox had better identified pitchers (Breslow's supposed strength) -- trading for relief pitchers in July who didn't pour gasoline on the bullpen fire would have helped, as would signing, say, Sonny Gray or Reynaldo Lopez, or signing/trading for Aaron Civale, Frankie Montas, or Martín Perez -- the Sox could be getting ready to play in Baltimore or Houston right now.
Who knows how any of these pitchers could/would have performed for the Sox if they traded for them... but I'm 100% if Martin Perez was the move, say, instead of Paxton, half this board that gave Breslow an A- grade at the deadline would likely have downgraded him to a C- or worse....
.....at the time. Results matter of course.
 

plucy

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a rock and a hard place
No, not yet.

Breslow has said earlier this year that he wanted to add a GM in the offseason. I'd guess he may have someone in mind from the Cubs once his hiring ban expires.
Zaidi is available. His regime in SF, which included Bailey, did a very good job of resurrecting the careers of a number of pitchers. Perhaps as second in command he will be shielded from his difficulties in securing high end free agents, although I think he was used as a stalking horse.
 

dynomite

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Arizona feels differently:

I'm most excited about what assets they have now, meaning they can be competitive for the next five years.
I for one am thrilled that the Sox avoided the Jordan Montgomery disaster. They now have resources to get a real pitcher, not someone that had a 2 month run among a career of mediocrity.
Jordan Montgomery was a disaster who helped tank the DBacks season. Clearly those of us arguing for him were wrong.

My point is I don't think we were wrong that the Red Sox needed to sign other pieces and did not. Montgomery was the worst case scenario. Are you also glad the Red Sox didn't sign Reynaldo Lopez?

I'm also happy that the Red Sox have "assets," but it's time to start turning assets into wins.
 

dynomite

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Who knows how any of these pitchers could/would have performed for the Sox if they traded for them... but I'm 100% if Martin Perez was the move, say, instead of Paxton, half this board that gave Breslow an A- grade at the deadline would likely have downgraded him to a C- or worse....
.....at the time. Results matter of course.
Right, Martin Perez's 10 starts (52 IP) and 3.46 ERA (1 WAR) for the Padres since the deadline would have been a far better investment (despite the fact that FIP indicates he was a similar pitcher in Pittsburgh and San Diego).

And as if we needed yet more reminders that reactions in late July sometimes seem silly in early October, the Tigers sold Flaherty when they were under .500... and are currently playing Game 1 of their Wild Card series.