Red Sox Deadline Discussion

Harry Hooper

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SemperFidelisSox said:
What's next for Carp is driving down Yawkey Way with the World Series trophy tied to his bumper like Costanza. "Attention Henry and front office morons...you all stink"
 
Hah! Carp must be wondering what it takes to get moved.
 

twibnotes

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SemperFidelisSox said:
What's next for Carp is driving down Yawkey Way with the World Series trophy tied to his bumper like Costanza. "Attention Henry and front office morons...you all stink"
"I fear no reprisal..."
 

bakahump

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Well on the bright side, with all the trades causing stunned paralysis of 20-30% of the posters at any one time, we have had no outages...
 

joe dokes

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So for the past 2 weeks or so, pages here have been filled with the posts, stories and tweets from the baseball media elite about "what's going to happen" at the Deadline.
 
Does anyone keep track of whether anyone got anything right? In other words, whether paying any attention at all to these clowns from the middle of July on is worth even one second of your time? (I'm thinking of what, for example, Deadspin does at the end of the NFL season tallying up the pre-season prognostocations),
 

benhogan

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So what does Ownership do with all the $$$ they saved by dealing off these players?
 
I hope whatever it is gets added to next years budget and we can spend more then the luxury cap.
 

johnnywayback

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It's really remarkable how reluctant teams were to trade their top prospects (Oakland excepted).  Nearly every major "sell" today brought back a return consisting mostly of major-league players.  Eduardo Rodriguez was the best pitching prospect moved all month.
 
If that indicates that teams are beginning to value prospects more, it sure is nice that we have so many of them.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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benhogan said:
So what do the Red Sox do with all the $$$ they saved by dealing off these players?
 
I hope whatever it is gets added to next years budget and we can spend more then the luxury cap.
 
What money did they save other than Lackey's $500K?  None of the rest were on the books for 2015, so I don't see how they've saved anything going forward.  In fact, they've added to their 2015 payroll with these deals.  Of course, they've addressed some things that would have otherwise needed addressing, so it's probably a net wash.
 
Unless you're trying to say that the 2014 salary they've saved will roll over.  In which case, I don't think it matters. Any money "saved" on 2014 salaries isn't likely to increase the 2015 budget since the budget is probably based on 2015 luxury tax cap, which is locked in already.
 

54thMA

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benhogan said:
So what does Ownership do with all the $$$ they saved by dealing off these players?
 
 
 
John Henry buys himself a spiffy new umbrella.
 
And Lucky Larry buys himself a toupee with some brains in it.
 
 

benhogan

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Red(s)HawksFan said:
 
What money did they save other than Lackey's $500K?  None of the rest were on the books for 2015, so I don't see how they've saved anything going forward.  In fact, they've added to their 2015 payroll with these deals.  Of course, they've addressed some things that would have otherwise needed addressing, so it's probably a net wash.
 
Unless you're trying to say that the 2014 salary they've saved will roll over.  In which case, I don't think it matters. Any money "saved" on 2014 salaries isn't likely to increase the 2015 budget since the budget is probably based on 2015 luxury tax cap, which is locked in already.
Yea the money from this season, 2014. Not future obligations.
 
$5MM from Drew
Ownership also saved 2014 money on the Lackey, Miller and Lester deals.
 
I'd like to see that money put to use on players, not ownerships p/l statement.
 

Marbleheader

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joe dokes said:
So for the past 2 weeks or so, pages here have been filled with the posts, stories and tweets from the baseball media elite about "what's going to happen" at the Deadline.
 
Does anyone keep track of whether anyone got anything right? In other words, whether paying any attention at all to these clowns from the middle of July on is worth even one second of your time? (I'm thinking of what, for example, Deadspin does at the end of the NFL season tallying up the pre-season prognostocations),
Well, mystery team for Lester was spot on in a very vague sort of way...
 

Tyrone Biggums

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I like the moves overall. Cespedes and Craig upgrade this lineup immensely. Boegarts back to SS upgrades his bat. Middlebrooks is an upgrade at 3rd. The pitching staff is AAA however. Time to find out which kids want to be on this squad next year.

I'm thinking Lester will resign pretty quick. This roster with Lester, healthy Buchholz and another veteran arm will once again be a top notch squad.

I also wouldn't rule out a 3/45 extension for Cespedes.

Hembree and Layne have to get the call at some point to help the pen.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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benhogan said:
Yea the money from this season, 2014. Not future obligations.
 
$5MM from Drew
Ownership also saved 2014 money on the Lackey, Miller and Lester deals.
 
I'd like to see that money put to use on players, not ownerships p/l statement.
 
What makes you think they won't spend it?  Jesus Fuck, this ownership group has NEVER skimped on payroll.  They're unlikely to start now.
 

LynnRice75

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Tyrone Biggums said:
I like the moves overall. Cespedes and Craig upgrade this lineup immensely. Boegarts back to SS upgrades his bat. Middlebrooks is an upgrade at 3rd. The pitching staff is AAA however. Time to find out which kids want to be on this squad next year.

I'm thinking Lester will resign pretty quick. This roster with Lester, healthy Buchholz and another veteran arm will once again be a top notch squad.

I also wouldn't rule out a 3/45 extension for Cespedes.

Hembree and Layne have to get the call at some point to help the pen.
 
Where is Holt in your equation?
 

Drek717

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LynnRice75 said:
 
Where is Holt in your equation?
Super sub, where he should be.  Playing about 6 days a week all over the diamond to give everyone else a day off.
 

benhogan

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Red(s)HawksFan said:
 
What makes you think they won't spend it?  Jesus Fuck, this ownership group has NEVER skimped on payroll.  They're unlikely to start now.
Jesus Fuck I didn't say they were skimping on payroll, can you read?
 
They saved money, right?  
 
Its a business, right?
 
Either use the money on payroll or it goes into a black hole (ownership pockets)
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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benhogan said:
Jesus Fuck I didn't say they were skimping on payroll, can you read?
 
They saved money, right?  
 
Its a business, right?
 
Either use the money on payroll or it goes into a black hole (ownership pockets)
 
Implying that they'll pocket the money certainly reads like you think they'll skimp.
 
I guess I'm not sure what you're trying to say then.  There's not much else to spend the money on in 2014.  In 2015, their spending is probably going to be the same whether they had saved anything this year or not.  As I said before, the savings on Drew and Lester and Lackey isn't going to result in an increase in the 2015 payroll budget.  They'll spend and be in the top 5 in the league in payroll like they usually are.
 

DavidTai

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Red(s)HawksFan said:
 
Implying that they'll pocket the money certainly reads like you think they'll skimp.
 
I guess I'm not sure what you're trying to say then.  There's not much else to spend the money on in 2014.  In 2015, their spending is probably going to be the same whether they had saved anything this year or not.  As I said before, the savings on Drew and Lester and Lackey isn't going to result in an increase in the 2015 payroll budget.  They'll spend and be in the top 5 in the league in payroll like they usually are.
 
There is one way, I think - bidding on that Cuban defector, Rusney Castillo. If they can get him, and they feel he's ready, they could roll out an OF of Castillo, Bradley, and Cespedes. Imagine if this were last year instead - we could have just bid on Jose Abreu with the extra money saved, for example.
 
But eh, I don't see the point of spending money JUST to spend money - with Craig and Cespedes on the roster, I'm not sure why they'd want to spend on Castillo unless they want to trade Bradley or Napoli, and I just don't see anything they can do with that savings otherwise, unless it's to throw the money in with Carp, Napoli, or Uehara at this point and 'buy prospects', which I don't think is gonna happen.
 

benhogan

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All I'm saying is if the 2015 budget was X and they saved $10MM today on the 2014 budget,  the 2015 budget should be X + $10MM. 
 
I'm totally cool with them taking a stand on long term/risky contracts.  They did some shrewd moves today and got out of some monetary obligations for 2014.
 
Its not unfair to ask them to use those savings and spend them on next years team.
 

DJnVa

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Cherington PC: Heading into Toronto series, team was still thinking about 2014 and possibly adding to team.
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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Sorry if this has been said a million times on the boards, but there's about 90 pages of posts from today in a variety of threads that I'm in no way able to read to see if I'm repeating this... but every move since Peavy has been traded screams that the Sox are going to make a massive bundle package to Miami to get Stanton in the off season.  It's so insanely obvious.  They're going to let Betts and Merrero go along with 2 of their top tier starting pitching prospects (I'm guessing Webster and RDLR) along with Cespedes and $$$ to subsidize Cespedes.
 
C Ross and Vazquez
1B Nap
2B Pedroia
SS X
3B WMB
LF Craig
CF JBJr
RF Stanton
 

Snodgrass'Muff

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Trotsky said:
Sorry if this has been said a million times on the boards, but there's about 90 pages of posts from today in a variety of threads that I'm in no way able to read to see if I'm repeating this... but every move since Peavy has been traded screams that the Sox are going to make a massive bundle package to Miami to get Stanton in the off season.  It's so insanely obvious.  They're going to let Betts and Merrero go along with 2 of their top tier starting pitching prospects (I'm guessing Webster and RDLR) along with Cespedes and $$$ to subsidize Cespedes.
 
I don't think there is any chance that Cespedes is a piece in a Stanton deal. He's not controlled after next year, so of what value is he to the Marlins? Craig is probably more attractive if he can put together a solid final two months of the season as he's under control for four more seasons and with a subsidy could be extremely cheap. They might be gearing up for a run at Stanton, but Cespedes may also indicate they aren't optimistic he's ever going to be available for something they are willing to pay.
 

shepard50

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We are getting two top of the rotation free agent starting pitchers this winter. What else would you spend the 70-90M they have free on? And there isn't much exciting in the market aside form starting pitching. Scherzer and Lester.
 

jscola85

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Ananti said:
Stanton was always a pipe dream. We're not getting Stanton.
 
Why? Maybe it's a pipe dream now, but at some point, Miami is going to cash in on him for their next wave of prospects.  That's what they do, just like the Rays.  Build up an asset until they get too expensive, then restock.
 

Snodgrass'Muff

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jscola85 said:
 
Why? Maybe it's a pipe dream now, but at some point, Miami is going to cash in on him for their next wave of prospects.  That's what they do, just like the Rays.  Build up an asset until they get too expensive, then restock.
 
There is a very nice team coming together there. If they're ever going to pony up, it'll be for Stanton. I could see them pay what it takes to extend him and continue building around him. Just a few months back people around here had trouble picturing this Miami team as a threat to make the playoffs, but things have come together and they are currently 4.5 out of the Wild Card and 6 out of their division. It's a competitive roster already. Buying into it makes sense.
 

ivanvamp

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Cespedes vs. Stanton
 
Cespedes:  28 yrs old, career slash line of:  .262/.318/.470/.788, 119 ops+, 2.8 bWAR a season
Stanton:  24 yrs old, career slash line of:  .270/.361/.536/.898, 141 ops+, 4.0 bWAR a season
 
After 2015, Cespedes will probably command a 4-year deal worth around $18 mil a season ($72 mil total).  After 2016, Stanton will probably command an 8 or 9 year deal worth between $25-30 million a season ($200-270 mil total).
 
Is it worth dealing what would appear to be about 5 legit assets *and* increase your payroll by maybe $12 million a season, in order to get the upgrade from Cespedes to Stanton?
 
Amazingly, I can see the answer being either yes or no.
 

Tyrone Biggums

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geoduck no quahog said:
Can we ban the name "Stanton" from the board for at least 6 months? Please?
Fine. Now what about that outfielder Giancarlo that I've heard so much about :)
 

Rasputin

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Trotsky said:
Sorry if this has been said a million times on the boards, but there's about 90 pages of posts from today in a variety of threads that I'm in no way able to read to see if I'm repeating this... but every move since Peavy has been traded screams that the Sox are going to make a massive bundle package to Miami to get Stanton in the off season.  It's so insanely obvious.  They're going to let Betts and Merrero go along with 2 of their top tier starting pitching prospects (I'm guessing Webster and RDLR) along with Cespedes and $$$ to subsidize Cespedes.
 
C Ross and Vazquez
1B Nap
2B Pedroia
SS X
3B WMB
LF Craig
CF JBJr
RF Stanton
It really doesn't scream any such thing. Since they clearly targeted OF power, you could even say the taxes today make it less likely the Sox will trade for Stanton.

Nevertheless, I rather suspect it's going to be Stanton all day every day this off-season.
 

Stitch01

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Roster construction now, IMO, cries for a deal for a top starter now in arb and about to get really expensive from a rebuilding team who needs pitching prospects.
 

Sprowl

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Stitch01 said:
Roster construction now, IMO, cries for a deal for a top starter now in arb and about to get really expensive from a rebuilding team who needs pitching prospects.
 
You don't mean Mat Latos, do you?
 

ehaz

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Sprowl said:
 
You don't mean Mat Latos, do you?
 
I wouldn't be surprised to see something like this in the offseason IMO.  If ownership is taking a hard stance on not giving Lester what he wants, why splash the cash to someone like Shields (33), Santana (32) or Masterson (injuries/bullshit)?  There's no way you can convince me that giving 4 years/$80 million to a guy who's thrown 200+ innings every season since 2006 is less risky than paying Lester.  Mat Latos is only under contract for 2015 so I doubt they'd have to give up someone like Betts to acquire a front of the rotation starter if healthy.
 

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BosRedSox5 said:
With the call up of Oscar Taveras, Allen Craig gas been relegated to the bench. This is a guy who for 2.5 seasons before this year slashed 312/.364/.500/.863. He's literally never made an outfield error and he's got some defensive flexibility. 

The Cardinals need some pitching help. Maybe they'd want Peavy, maybe they'd want Mujica back... I don't know but there seems to be a real opportunity there to buy low. Craig isn't a great defensive player but LF in Fenway could make use of his sure handedness and decent arm without needing big time range. Expecting his bat to come back is a little bit of a gamble, but he'd had a big sample size from 2011-2013 that I think showed he was for real. At 25 million remaining over 3 years I think it's a decent enough shot for a team with the Sox's resources.
Well then.
 

ivanvamp

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foulkehampshire said:
I was thinking about that earlier. Trade for Latos, sign a top tier FA SP, resign Miller, and you got yourself something interesting to work with.
 
Rotation:  Latos, Shields (4/72), Buchholz, and then two of the army of kids.  That would be just fine.
 
Bullpen:  Tazawa, Miller (3/24…wow that's expensive but it might be what it takes), Koji (QO), Hembree, Alex Wilson, and maybe another veteran lefty.  That would also be pretty nice.  Good power arms there (Taz, Miller, Hembree), lots of swing and miss pitchers there.
 
Regulars: Vazquez, Napoli, Pedroia, WMB/Holt, Bogaerts, Cespedes, JBJ, Craig, Ortiz
 
2b Pedroia
SS Bogaerts
DH Ortiz
RF Cespedes
1b Napoli
LF Craig
3b Middlebrooks
C Vazquez
CF Bradley
 
Some actual power in the lineup, spots 3-7.  If Bogaerts can ramp up to the 18-20 hr mark in 2015, then even better.
 

HomeRunBaker

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So we are suddenly banking on X not being a horrific fielder at SS (and 3b) while WMB suddenly learned how to hit/lay off breaking pitches down and away? This is what we are banking on? Good lord.

I'm rooting HARD for Marrero to continue his offensive improvement at PAW the rest of the year. It may be our only hope to stop this insanity of a X/WMB left side.
 

MakMan44

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HomeRunBaker said:
So we are suddenly banking on X not being a horrific fielder at SS (and 3b) while WMB suddenly learned how to hit/lay off breaking pitches down and away? This is what we are banking on? Good lord.

I'm rooting HARD for Marrero to continue his offensive improvement at PAW the rest of the year. It may be our only hope to stop this insanity of a X/WMB left side.
Sounds like they're giving it to the end of the season. Why is that such a big deal? If it pans out, fantastic. If not, they make offseason moves accordingly. 
 

ehaz

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HomeRunBaker said:
So we are suddenly banking on X not being a horrific fielder at SS (and 3b) while WMB suddenly learned how to hit/lay off breaking pitches down and away? This is what we are banking on? Good lord.

I'm rooting HARD for Marrero to continue his offensive improvement at PAW the rest of the year. It may be our only hope to stop this insanity of a X/WMB left side.
 
You forgot that X hits better at SS.
 
Kidding aside, I wouldn't bank on Marrero being the opening day starter.  Far more likely that we see X/Holt in some form.  If they finally give up on WMB there are a few options on the FA market such as Headley and Hanley.
 

Savin Hillbilly

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HomeRunBaker said:
So we are suddenly banking on X not being a horrific fielder at SS (and 3b) while WMB suddenly learned how to hit/lay off breaking pitches down and away? This is what we are banking on? Good lord.
 
Well, for the next two months it's basically a piggy bank. So I don't see the harm in rattling it to see what comes out.