Red Sox Deadline Discussion
- Thread starter soxhop411
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smastroyin said:
Because he'll be 33 for the first year of his next deal. No one is going more than 4 years on him without getting stupid. Maybe 18 million isn't enough, but I doubt he gets more than 20. He's been very good, but he's at an age where the risk of decline is a little higher. And he'll have a QO hanging around his neck. I can't see his ceiling being higher than 4/80.
The fact that we traded Lester not for prospects (as was expected) but for help next year, when Lackey will have value to us. If we had traded for prospects, it would have suggested we're not going for it next year, the last year we have Lackey. So I think it's a reasonable (though not certain, of course) leap to suggest we might keep Lackey after all.DrewDawg said:
Carmen Fanzone said:
Given that the As just gave Milone up and all they got back was Sam Fuld, I would have liked the Red Sox to have pursued this.
BigPapiLumber Co. said:
At this point, if I'm Ben, I make it known that we're not really interested in trading Lackey anymore unless someone blows us away. With a little free agent help this winter, we're looking at a team that should compete for the division. They've got one more shot with Papi. Who would have bet on that a few days ago?
Snodgrass'Muff said:
Which we'd gladly pay. A deal like that and take the last two years of Cliff Lee and those deals play into the higher AAV, shorter years philosophy the FO craves.
I think this fits for a number of baseball reasons and a couple of non-baseball / timing and personnel type reasons.
1) The Sox are not that far away - many of their prospects are in breakout territory, on both the pitching and hitting side. Gaining low minors guys for Lester would be poorly timed right now, and it seems to me that lots of the close to ready prospects (Bell, Joc) were not really an option.
2) a G.F.I. '15 attitude (go for it next year) very well might help them attract FA pitching, such as Lester himself, Scherzer, etc. With a protected pick, the Sox will likely be active in the FA market, and having a team that can't hit and is committed to going nowhere next year will not help. Cespedes is a step in the right direction, and there are plenty of second steps to look at to make '15 a non travesty season. The AL East is wide open in that regard.
Will the Sox be a great team next year? Not necessarily, but getting a valuable, well fit and potentially improving Cespedes is a step in the right direction, and his presence just might start a domino effect that gets Boston back in shape again. Giving that a shot, with a pretty good FA market for pitching, lots of prospects seemingly on the brink, David Ortiz still swatting, and of course plenty of money - seems like very sound strategy to me.
1) The Sox are not that far away - many of their prospects are in breakout territory, on both the pitching and hitting side. Gaining low minors guys for Lester would be poorly timed right now, and it seems to me that lots of the close to ready prospects (Bell, Joc) were not really an option.
2) a G.F.I. '15 attitude (go for it next year) very well might help them attract FA pitching, such as Lester himself, Scherzer, etc. With a protected pick, the Sox will likely be active in the FA market, and having a team that can't hit and is committed to going nowhere next year will not help. Cespedes is a step in the right direction, and there are plenty of second steps to look at to make '15 a non travesty season. The AL East is wide open in that regard.
Will the Sox be a great team next year? Not necessarily, but getting a valuable, well fit and potentially improving Cespedes is a step in the right direction, and his presence just might start a domino effect that gets Boston back in shape again. Giving that a shot, with a pretty good FA market for pitching, lots of prospects seemingly on the brink, David Ortiz still swatting, and of course plenty of money - seems like very sound strategy to me.
Yes, this is what I'm thinking as well. Fuld is far below Milone's value, imho. Smarter people than me have traded Tommy for a guy they waived earlier or chose to not have him added to the bigger deal in which they sent their stud SP.MakMan44 said:
“@TomCaron: Source said deal was to make team competitive in 2015. Looking for immediate help, not prospects. Any additional deals will be w/ same goal.”
https://twitter.com/TomCaron/status/494864570734100480
https://twitter.com/TomCaron/status/494864570734100480
soxhop411 said:
When he left Fenway citing "business" to deal with last night, maybe the Sox are working out an extension with him...
“@Jim_Duquette: Expect Andrew Miller to be traded. Heavy demand on him, Sox will do well when they finish the day”
https://twitter.com/Jim_Duquette/status/494861013427036161
https://twitter.com/Jim_Duquette/status/494861013427036161
I'd be shocked if they don't trade him. I'd also like to see them see what they can get for Victorino, Napoli, Drew, Carp, and Badenop. Don't want to give away the first two, but if we can get something that helps for next year or for making a run at Stanton this offseason, I think you've got to at least put your toes in the water.soxhop411 said:
soxhop411 said:
Am I remembering wrong, or were there reports yesterday that he'd been told he'd be traded? Certainly could reverse course on that, but it seemed pretty final, like a decision had been made.
Yaz4Ever said:
Mariners are looking for offense anywhere they can find it, particularly RHH. They've asked about Napoli before. That would leave a big dent in the Red Sox offense next year, but if serious chips were put on the table, it is a possibility.
https://twitter.com/jonmorosi/status/494869547317334018
https://twitter.com/jonmorosi/status/494869856588554241
https://twitter.com/jonmorosi/status/494869856588554241
Victorino and Napoli will be big parts of next season. They aren't going anyhwere.
I think this winter they target Tulowitzki and sign/acquire two SP's (two of Lee/Shields/Iwakuma).
This is a lineup I can get excited about:
Pedroia
Victorino
Tulowitzki
Ortiz
Napoli
Cespedes
Bogaerts
Vasquez
JBJ
With Holt as the 10th hitter/floater.
That lineup could support JBJ's lack of offense and keep the elite defense.
I think this winter they target Tulowitzki and sign/acquire two SP's (two of Lee/Shields/Iwakuma).
This is a lineup I can get excited about:
Pedroia
Victorino
Tulowitzki
Ortiz
Napoli
Cespedes
Bogaerts
Vasquez
JBJ
With Holt as the 10th hitter/floater.
That lineup could support JBJ's lack of offense and keep the elite defense.
Napoli + for Walker + wouldn't make me sad. SEA needs to do something now that Oak just got so much better.Puffy said:
Rudy Pemberton said:
Papi, sure. But Pedroia? He'll be 31 next year. What are you talking about? And a massive improvement is necessary from guys like Bogaerts and Bradley? With a lineup starting with Victorino, Pedroia, Papi, Napoli and Cespedes, they would be just fine with Bogaerts at a .750 OPS and Bradley getting to .700. They don't need these kids to be all stars next year in order to compete. And the rotation will only need one free agent to be competitive if they don't trade Lackey. I'm not sure where you are getting "a few" from. They don't need to sign three starters.
As for the bullpen, they're bringing back Badenhop and Tazawa and are apparently prepared to make a QO to keep Koji around. Filling in around that with prospects would be just fine. No real need to go to the free agent market unless there is someone out there that they really like.
Price is probably out there because Lester didn't go for prospects.
Pittsburgh should go all in for Price with the extra year.
Pittsburgh should go all in for Price with the extra year.
I can't imagine at this point they won't move him. He's generally liked in the Boston club house and will be viewed through the "2013 World Series Champs!" lens by fans. The Sox aren't likely to tear up the option in exchange for two more years when he's already in his late 30's. The market is hungry for good starters, and Lackey doesn't have the same level of attachment and good will for any other city, so it's easy for some other team to play the "bad guy" when they take the option. All their fans will see is good value and the players will be hoping that he gives them a veteran #2.JohntheBaptist said:
It is just too easy for some other team to use the option instead of the Sox, and in the process for the Sox to extract a lot of good value in a seller's market. The fact that Lester went to Oakland only helps, as that leaves all the NL competitors in on Lackey.
If they can sign Cespedes to an extension, what kind of package centered around Betts would we be looking at for Stanton? The OF would be pretty stacked and set for a while.
I had a dream last night about Pedroia and Lackey for Dee Gordon. Gets Gonzo a ring and a bright future for us. Unrealistic dream of course.Snodgrass'Muff said:
https://twitter.com/BNightengale/status/494869620344369152Corsi said:
link to tweet
Cespedes plus Lackey makes sense for the Royals.
Rudy Pemberton said:
Sure, Pedroia isn't a 17 home run hitter going forward, but his OBP is pretty consistent and he'll set the table for what is now a very healthy middle of the order. As for Bogaerts and JBJ, those numbers are only huge improvements if you believe they are .682 and .604 OPS hitters as a baseline, and not rookies who have struggled while adjusting who are more likely to approximate their minor league success going forward than to continue struggling. I don't think .750 or .700 are terribly optimistic numbers given some basic context.
The point you are trying to make about replacing pitchers, however, is laughable. Peavy and Doubront are going to be tough replace? Seriously? You think they need to sign three free agent pitchers because of Peavy and Doubront? How can you post that with a straight face? Lester will take some money to replace, but he's the only one from that trio that can't be replaced from within. Hell, Workman and RDLR are both already better than Peavy and Doubront have been for the Sox this year.
They don't need an excessive amount of good luck to compete this year. They need to avoid an excessive amount of bad luck and to spend a little money on shoring up the rotation and maybe the bullpen.
DrewDawg said:
Amen to your Miller comment. The Sox took a guy who was almost to the point where he was done, fixed him (or allowed him to be fixed, whatever), turned him into a dominant pitcher, won a World Series, didn't pay him that much for good production, and will now deal him in a year when they are not competitive for something really good. Can't do business much better than that.
You deal Lackey if you expect him to (start to) drop off. Or can get a nice haul. I think he's an obvious keeper as he allows you more financial flexibility to sign a starter. Given that the trade is rumored to be close I fully expect them to get a strong return that makes it a no brainer.
I don't think 2015 Lackey is an irreplaceable piece at all.
I don't think 2015 Lackey is an irreplaceable piece at all.
GIven that he has an extra year at essentially the league minimum, that he can be dealt in the offseason or at the deadline next year, and that he and Lester are supposedly close and keeping Lackey could help woo Lester back (emphasis on could, this angle is probably overblown but it's still there), the Sox should be holding on to Lackey unless they are blown away with an offer.JimD said:
In many ways, given his contract for next year, Lackey has as much value, if not more, than the other pitchers that have been dealt and are still on the market
If Miller is tied to this they could get a nice haul. Without him tied to it, it will be interesting to see what we get.
The_Powa_of_Seiji_Ozawa said:
It should look every bit as gracious as the Lester thread, but it won't. The guy gave his body for the club, took serving after serving of shit from the fans, and still came back to help lead the club to the World Series last year, while embracing the city in the midst of a terrible tragedy, while being praised as an amazing teammate. Of course, he has a face that's easy to hate, so he'll be vilified.
The_Powa_of_Seiji_Ozawa said:
He was an integral part of bringing a World Series to Boston, and despite playing a key role in the collapse of 2011, he helped wash away the sting of Bobby the 5th with his performance in 2013. No ill will here.