Red Sox acquire Wyatt Mills for Jacob Wallace, DFA Eric Hosmer

SouthernBoSox

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You can make an argument, and it wouldn’t be a difficult one, that Hosmer is the 3rd or 4th best major league hitter on the 40 man.

To say it’s puzzling isn’t a stretch. It’s downright bizzare.
 

simplicio

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It's really not. He's another LHB on a team that already has too many, with no positional role, and no he wasn't the 3rd or 4th best hitter team. He had a lower ops+ than Dalbec last year. That is not good.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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That projection seems suspect to me, those are better than his career numbers. He hit 268/334/382 last year and was available for almost nothing at the deadline. What’s changed? He still has a no trade. There’s very little market for aging LH 1B who aren’t good enough to start and can’t play any other position; they just make no sense as backups…when would they play?

That he would be one of the Sox better hitters were the season to start today (but it’s not even Hanukkah, I know) is an indictment of the Sox, not a positive about Hosmer.
 

simplicio

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On the topic of Mills, is he now the biggest question mark in the pen? As it looks currently it's:
Jansen
Schreiber
Houck
Barnes
Martin
Rodriguez
Brasier
Mills

With Brasier the likeliest cut if Taylor proves he can ever throw a baseball again to give us another lefty.
So is the pen set? Are we expecting more moves?
 

kelpapa

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It's really not. He's another LHB on a team that already has too many, with no positional role, and no he wasn't the 3rd or 4th best hitter team. He had a lower ops+ than Dalbec last year. That is not good.
Hosmer's ops+ last year was 108. Dalbec's was 80.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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I’d expect Taylor to make the team if healthy, probably at the expense of Mills? Hard to imagine them carrying only one lefty.
 

chawson

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I’d expect Taylor to make the team if healthy, probably at the expense of Mills? Hard to imagine them carrying only one lefty.
I think Mills was a constructive pickup as opposed to a roster churn guy (McGee, Reed, Garza Jr.) they’ll try to slip through waivers. They didn’t have to give up Wallace for him, and Wallace was somewhere around the team’s 25th- to 30th-ranked prospect.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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Mills has an option, though, which I think makes him more likely to start the season in Worcester than Boston. Imagine he could be one of the first ones up once a RH reliever is hurt / ineffective.
 

chawson

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Mills has an option, though, which I think makes him more likely to start the season in Worcester than Boston. Imagine he could be one of the first ones up once a RH reliever is hurt / ineffective.
Ah, sure - sorry, misread “at the expense of” like you meant the 40, not the 26.
 

Super Nomario

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So who do we got lined up as a better DH? Hosmer’s projected slash line is considerably higher than what Trey Mancini put up the past two years. It’s better than Wil Myers. J.D. Martinez is a likely better bet if his September rebound is real, but he’s likely moving on.
This is the weird thing to me, too. The team makes more sense with a RH DH, but shouldn't they wait until they, y'know, actually acquire a RH DH before they dump Hosmer? Similarly (but less importantly), dumping Hoy Park was odd without adding another utility IF (or a starting IF that would push Arroyo to the bench). It's like Chaim hasn't learned his lesson from trading Renfroe without replacing him. I'm sure they plan to make some adds, but plans don't always work out and plan B is gone.
 

E5 Yaz

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This is the weird thing to me, too. The team makes more sense with a RH DH, but shouldn't they wait until they, y'know, actually acquire a RH DH before they dump Hosmer? Similarly (but less importantly), dumping Hoy Park was odd without adding another utility IF (or a starting IF that would push Arroyo to the bench). It's like Chaim hasn't learned his lesson from trading Renfroe without replacing him. I'm sure they plan to make some adds, but plans don't always work out and plan B is gone.
I think this is what is causing so much angst in these threads ... that the moves being made seem to leave even more holes and more questions than existed before. Everyone knows that many more moves are to be made before the season starts, but the 40-man being full makes every incremental decision magnified.
The roster crunch would seem to indicate trades where the Sox give up more players than they get in return, but those options haven't made themselves apparent. On one hand, it's good that they're playing their cards close to the vest. On the other, all we as fans can do is react to available evidence.
 

jmanny24

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I think this is what is causing so much angst in these threads ... that the moves being made seem to leave even more holes and more questions than existed before. Everyone knows that many more moves are to be made before the season starts, but the 40-man being full makes every incremental decision magnified.
The roster crunch would seem to indicate trades where the Sox give up more players than they get in return, but those options haven't made themselves apparent. On one hand, it's good that they're playing their cards close to the vest. On the other, all we as fans can do is react to available evidence.
I think a big part of the problem is the bolded and people reacting to evidence they think they have but don't. I have been puzzled but by the new year they could sign Swanson, Turner, Conforto, Kluber and make a trade for a SP and things suddenly look much different. Do I expect it? No but I also expect them to spend to the tax (and perhaps beyond) by opening day. We can discuss what the roster will/should/could look like in all these threads and that would be fun but to have every one riddled with whine and "they're cheap with no plan" narratives should be below this place. How about some positives, I think the pen should be much improved and their are still paths to a pretty competitive roster.
 

E5 Yaz

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I have been puzzled but by the new year they could sign Swanson, Turner, Conforto, Kluber ...
And create four new threads about the four players who get DFA'd as a result? I'm not sure the server can withstand it
 

ElcaballitoMVP

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This is the weird thing to me, too. The team makes more sense with a RH DH, but shouldn't they wait until they, y'know, actually acquire a RH DH before they dump Hosmer? Similarly (but less importantly), dumping Hoy Park was odd without adding another utility IF (or a starting IF that would push Arroyo to the bench). It's like Chaim hasn't learned his lesson from trading Renfroe without replacing him. I'm sure they plan to make some adds, but plans don't always work out and plan B is gone.
Why should they wait to drop Hosmer if they had no intention of bringing him to spring training? Now they have a bullpen option with an option instead of a weak hitting LHH 1B only player. The (apparent) fact that they found no trade interest for him, making league minimum, says a lot. There's really not a lot of risk getting rid of Hosmer now, especially if the intention is to get a RHH DH who can play some 1B. If that's the case, Hosmer was gone regardless. And I'm not worried about their ability to find a player comparable to Hoy Park to be their utility IF. I think it's easier for people if the Sox made moves in a certain order, but the order doesn't really matter in the end. Hosmer was never going to be part of the '23 plan and Hoy Park is fungible. The Sox will continue to make moves to fill in these gaps.
 

YTF

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This is the weird thing to me, too. The team makes more sense with a RH DH, but shouldn't they wait until they, y'know, actually acquire a RH DH before they dump Hosmer? Similarly (but less importantly), dumping Hoy Park was odd without adding another utility IF (or a starting IF that would push Arroyo to the bench). It's like Chaim hasn't learned his lesson from trading Renfroe without replacing him. I'm sure they plan to make some adds, but plans don't always work out and plan B is gone.
This is my biggest concern here. I'm not ready to divorce myself from this FO just yet, but looking back to the Renfroe trade I can convince myself that at least Chaim had plan B in place. If Cotillo's Tweet is accurate I'd rather they held onto Hosmer until there was a better option on board.
 

Super Nomario

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Why should they wait to drop Hosmer if they had no intention of bringing him to spring training? Now they have a bullpen option with an option instead of a weak hitting LHH 1B only player. The (apparent) fact that they found no trade interest for him, making league minimum, says a lot. There's really not a lot of risk getting rid of Hosmer now, especially if the intention is to get a RHH DH who can play some 1B. If that's the case, Hosmer was gone regardless. And I'm not worried about their ability to find a player comparable to Hoy Park to be their utility IF. I think it's easier for people if the Sox made moves in a certain order, but the order doesn't really matter in the end. Hosmer was never going to be part of the '23 plan and Hoy Park is fungible. The Sox will continue to make moves to fill in these gaps.
I get the idea that they have no intention of bringing Hosmer to spring training, but intentions aren't realities. Maybe I'm just gunshy because I heard last offseason that trading Renfroe for JBJ was fine because they were going to add another OF by opening day and JBJ wasn't really going to start. It never materialized, and the OF was a disaster all season. If it's that easy to find a righty DH, maybe they should find a righty DH and then cut Hosmer. Or if they're going to be waiting out the market and fishing for what they can find in the spring, maybe they should make sure they don't leave themselves empty-handed?
 

ElcaballitoMVP

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I get the idea that they have no intention of bringing Hosmer to spring training, but intentions aren't realities. Maybe I'm just gunshy because I heard last offseason that trading Renfroe for JBJ was fine because they were going to add another OF by opening day and JBJ wasn't really going to start. It never materialized, and the OF was a disaster all season. If it's that easy to find a righty DH, maybe they should find a righty DH and then cut Hosmer. Or if they're going to be waiting out the market and fishing for what they can find in the spring, maybe they should make sure they don't leave themselves empty-handed?
I guess it all depends on how you view Hosmer. I don't think his bat is worth keeping around, especially since he can't play anywhere but 1B where the Sox have a young LHH prospect who needs to get as many AB's as possible at the MLB level. So, if we're just talking DH at bats for Hosmer, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect them to find a bat that's RH and can provide more production than what Hosmer offers (esp in the power department). Guys like JDM, Drury, Myers, Mancini, Turner are free agents just off the top of my head that are likely to be better fits for the team and that's not even including the trade market.

The reason they couldn't find a RHH DH and then cut Hosmer is because the team had the opportunity to get a reliever with an option that they liked and they needed a roster spot for him. Since Hosmer wasn't part of the '23 plan, he was the guy to go. If they sign a RHH DH, they'll have to make another move and maybe it's someone like Ort that is gone. And that's basically Mills for Ort and RHH DH for Hosmer. Same thing, just a different order. Now, if they go into the season without getting that RHH DH, sure, I'll understand the frustration. I just think it's premature right now.
 

TubeSoxs

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What was the point of even aquiring him then? The deadline deals werent obviously enough to move the needle. Should have just kept Groome for a longer look.
 

TubeSoxs

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I guess it all depends on how you view Hosmer. I don't think his bat is worth keeping around, especially since he can't play anywhere but 1B where the Sox have a young LHH prospect who needs to get as many AB's as possible at the MLB level. So, if we're just talking DH at bats for Hosmer, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect them to find a bat that's RH and can provide more production than what Hosmer offers (esp in the power department). Guys like JDM, Drury, Myers, Mancini, Turner are free agents just off the top of my head that are likely to be better fits for the team and that's not even including the trade market.

The reason they couldn't find a RHH DH and then cut Hosmer is because the team had the opportunity to get a reliever with an option that they liked and they needed a roster spot for him. Since Hosmer wasn't part of the '23 plan, he was the guy to go. If they sign a RHH DH, they'll have to make another move and maybe it's someone like Ort that is gone. And that's basically Mills for Ort and RHH DH for Hosmer. Same thing, just a different order. Now, if they go into the season without getting that RHH DH, sure, I'll understand the frustration. I just think it's premature right now.
Can JDM play anything other than DH at this point? I dont see a huge drop off offensively either, Hosmer still bats around 270, dozen dongs and financially costs a lot less than any of those names. The way Bloom is looking to cut costs he seemed like a decent option to keep around if they‘re staying under the luxury. However now it appears they wont even get close to it so…..

What does it say about Bloom though if he was the only one that had interest in Hosmer(when he was injured no less)? He actually gave up a top 20 prospect to get him.
 

ElcaballitoMVP

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What was the point of even aquiring him then? The deadline deals werent obviously enough to move the needle. Should have just kept Groome for a longer look.
It's been covered in here plenty. Groome was behind the other SP's in the system and the team had a 40 man roster crunch. He was likely going to be lost this offseason anyway and isn't ready to pitch in the majors. His stuff isn't what it was before TJ. Hosmer was brought in to try to give them average production at 1B (something they weren't getting) with next to no financial commitment. The deadline deals were weird, I agree, but they decided to move on from Groome to get a guy who could try to help them make a playoff push. Didn't work and there's nothing we can do about that now.

And JDM can't really play anywhere other than DH at this point, but his track record is leaps and bounds ahead of Hosmer and he's right handed. He's a much better fit for the lineup. And 12 homers isn't what you want from your DH, no matter what you pay him, especially when he can't play anywhere but 1B where they have another LHH who needs to get all the AB's he can this year. Could Casas struggle? Sure, but that's the risk you take with giving the job to a prospect. They could sign JDM and Drury (who can play some 1B) and be better off than having Hosmer sitting on the bench or taking DH at bats. Will they? We'll see.
 

kelpapa

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Can JDM play anything other than DH at this point? I dont see a huge drop off offensively either, Hosmer still bats around 270, dozen dongs and financially costs a lot less than any of those names. The way Bloom is looking to cut costs he seemed like a decent option to keep around if they‘re staying under the luxury. However now it appears they wont even get close to it so…..

What does it say about Bloom though if he was the only one that had interest in Hosmer(when he was injured no less)? He actually gave up a top 20 prospect to get him.
He didn't give up a top 20 prospect to get hosmer. They traded a guy that would need to be added to the 40 for two prospects that didn't plus hosmer.
 
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jteders1

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The thing that makes the Hosmer cut so strange is that sitting here today, he was probably our starting DH, and insurance if Casas struggles. In addition, his batted ball profile and new shift rules coming up was likely to help him. I’m not opposed to dropping him, he is not in our long term plan, but my preference would have been after we signed a DH. If we close the deal with Turner, I’ll feel better. The other possibility is that the Sox front office feels really good about Valdez being able to handle the DH role in 2023.
 

nvalvo

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The thing that makes the Hosmer cut so strange is that sitting here today, he was probably our starting DH, and insurance if Casas struggles. In addition, his batted ball profile and new shift rules coming up was likely to help him. I’m not opposed to dropping him, he is not in our long term plan, but my preference would have been after we signed a DH. If we close the deal with Turner, I’ll feel better. The other possibility is that the Sox front office feels really good about Valdez being able to handle the DH role in 2023.
I'd be happy — eager, even — to bring in a bigger bat to help out at DH, but with present personnel I don't think I would prefer Hosmer at DH over a platoon of our bench guys.

Hosmer v. RHP, career: .810 OPS... and not that good recently, excepting the 2020 shortened season.
Hosmer v. LHP, career: .667 OPS

Valdez v RHP, 2022 (minors): .996 OPS, .926 in 2021
Refsnyder v LHP, 2022: 1.005 OPS
Dalbec v LHP, 2022: .755 OPS
Arroyo v. LHP, 2022: .777 OPS

You could fill in something with Valdez taking a lot of the DH PA against righties, and also helping out at 2B, 3B, and as a depth option in the OF corners. Refsnyder is option one at DH v. LHP, but also has OF4 responsibilities. Dalbec backs up the corner infield spots and gets a few DH PA against lefties, and Arroyo starts somewhere in the middle infield, but also picks up some DH PA to get him off his feet, presumably with Valdez in the field.

I know Valdez has only posted those numbers in the minors, but if I have to pick who is more likely to post an .800+ OPS against RHP in 2023 — Hosmer or Valdez — I'm picking the 24 year old coming off impressive back-to-back seasons in the high minors in this instance.
 

Hee Sox Choi

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Valdez played in the PCL. The PCL, as a whole, had it's largest offensive season in history. Sure, Enmanuel slashed .296/.347/560 but that was only 18% above average. wRC+ 118.

His AA stats were massively bouyed by a .438 BABIP.

When he came to Worcester (a more neutral park & environment), he hit .237/.309/.422 in 195 PAs. Baseball Prospectus doesn't even mention him on their 20-prospect-deep list.

Things to like:
2021: 26 HR in 91 gms between A & AA.
2022: 28 HR in 126 gms between AA & AAA.

I still like him and he's interesting, but the Red Sox should not be going into camp thinking he's the DHvR.
 

chawson

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Valdez played in the PCL. The PCL, as a whole, had it's largest offensive season in history. Sure, Enmanuel slashed .296/.347/560 but that was only 18% above average. wRC+ 118.

His AA stats were massively bouyed by a .438 BABIP.

When he came to Worcester (a more neutral park & environment), he hit .237/.309/.422 in 195 PAs. Baseball Prospectus doesn't even mention him on their 20-prospect-deep list.

Things to like:
2021: 26 HR in 91 gms between A & AA.
2022: 28 HR in 126 gms between AA & AAA.

I still like him and he's interesting, but the Red Sox should not be going into camp thinking he's the DHvR.
Why is Enmanuel Valdez's ZIPS projection so...good? That system has him slated for a .246/.309/.437 line next year, good for a .323 wOBA (albeit in 126 projected PAs). Among 24-year-olds without a major-league at-bat, that's really pretty solid.

To put into context, that system pegs Jake Cronenworth for a .324 wOBA (.250/.333/.405), Ozzie Albies for a .328 wOBA (.259/.312/.445) and Tim Anderson for a .323 wOBA (.286/.321/.423). It's projection him to outhit Christian Arroyo, who ZIPS says is in line for a .319 wOBA (.264/.315/.421). ZIPS has Valdez hitting considerably better than Dansby friggin' Swanson, who they see hitting only at a .315 wOBA clip next year in Chicago (.247/.310/.415).

Grain of salt when dealing with projection systems, if you like, and all of these guys offer much more defensive value, but this seems really bullish to me! Maybe the system expects him to hit against RHP only (I'm not aware that the system projects for handedness by anticipated platoons), but still. Oswaldo Cabrera is entering his age-24 season and hit .247/.312/.429 in 171 PAs for New York, and he's projected at only a .315 wOBA.
 
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jon abbey

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Steamer seems to have some wild predictions for minor leaguers. Check out these recent ones for NYY prospects, then remember that while Chaparro indeed did tear up AA at the end of last season, he was just left unprotected in the rule 5 and was not selected, so it's pretty clear that 30 teams are more pessimistic on him short-term than Steamer is. :)

View: https://twitter.com/Dan_KellyPSA/status/1590153648423960578
 

Hee Sox Choi

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Something is wrong with their steamer projections. It's near impossible to find a rookie who doesn't have a wRC+ of 100 or more. Really weird.

Chris Gittens is projected to hit 30 HRs!
 
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chawson

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That's Steamer. Zips is here (but it's pretty similar). 97 OPS+ projection which is a tad below an avg mlb'er.

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/2023-zips-projections-boston-red-sox/
Ah whoops, thanks, thought the FanGraphs WAR depth charts were fixed to ZIPS not Steamer for some reason.

Gotta say, Valdez's .317 ZIPS projection looks alright too, FWIW, at least relative to my expectations. Josh Bell's 2023 ZIPS projection is .320, to take another likely DH.

Or, here's how his age-24 ZIPS projection compares with other guys (mostly other infielders) entering their age-24 seasons last year:

Age-24 ZIPS projections:
Jazz Chisholm, Jr., 2022: .228/.292/.412, 89 OPS+
Gavin Lux, 2022: .243/.318/.414, 95 OPS+
Brandon Marsh, 2022: .249/.319/.367, 87 OPS+
Jake McCarthy, 2022: .223/.292/.373, 76 OPS+
Jose Miranda, 2022: .272/.316/.432, 103 OPS+
Lars Nootbaar, 2022: .244/.314/.386, 91 OPS+
Jeremy Peña, 2022: .254/.304/.424, 95 OPS+
Bryson Stott, 2022: .244/.317/.384, 87 OPS+
Enmanuel Valdez, 2023: .248/.307/.432, 97 OPS+

Age-24 Actual (2022):
Jazz Chisholm, Jr.: .254/.325/.525, 139 OPS+
Gavin Lux: .276/.346/.399, 105 OPS+
Brandon Marsh: .245/.295/.384, 91 OPS+
Jake McCarthy: .285/.342/.427, 118 OPS+
Jose Miranda: .268/.325/.426, 116 OPS+
Lars Nootbaar: .228/.340/.448, 126 OPS+
Jeremy Peña: .253/.289/.426, 101 OPS+
Bryson Stott: .234/.295/.358, 84 OPS+
Enmanuel Valdez, 2023: ?

In other words, there's something about Enmanuel Valdez's bat that these projection systems like going into 2023 more than it liked Lux, Chisholm or Peña's coming into last year. Curious to see what this guy's deal is.
 
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Hee Sox Choi

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Yeah, you're right, chawson, that's a nice group of players to be compared to. Giving me hope DAMN YOU!
 

johnlos

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I think a big part of the problem is the bolded and people reacting to evidence they think they have but don't. I have been puzzled but by the new year they could sign Swanson, Turner, Conforto, Kluber and make a trade for a SP and things suddenly look much different. Do I expect it? No but I also expect them to spend to the tax (and perhaps beyond) by opening day. We can discuss what the roster will/should/could look like in all these threads and that would be fun but to have every one riddled with whine and "they're cheap with no plan" narratives should be below this place. How about some positives, I think the pen should be much improved and their are still paths to a pretty competitive roster.
This is not aging well. I don't think they're spending this year until the trade deadline in the 1/10 chance the team is competitive
 

jon abbey

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Something is wrong with their steamer projections. It's near impossible to find a rookie who doesn't have a wRC+ of 100 or more. Really weird.

Chris Gittens is projected to hit 30 HRs!
I really liked Gittens and think he could have blossomed in the right situation but he’s playing in Japan now, so unlikely he’ll be hitting any MLB HRs this year.
 

A Bad Man

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Sweet little interview with "Earp" on the Bradfo Sho. Edit: seems like a likeable and very intelligent dude.
 

Big Papi's Mango Salsa

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But we were assured they would trade him
A lot of us (or at least me) who said that were operating under the assumption that both Cots and SportTrac had it right and that Hosmer counted against our AAV number (for what it's worth, he's still listed as part of our AAV budget on SportTrac), as they're generally reliable sources. https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/boston-red-sox/payroll/?ref=trending-pages

Speier pointed out that he in fact does not count at all on our Luxury Tax / AAV budget and they have it wrong, and I trust Speier more than Cots, etc.

I claimed he'd assuredly be traded because, despite the fact that I disagree with the vast majority of what Bloom has done since November of 2021 and were I in charge I'd have fired him on no less than 5 separate occasions between now and then, I didn't / don't think there is any way he's stupid enough to trade for Eric Hosmer just to burn $4m to $5m of AAV budget space for the next three seasons. Disagreeing with a plan is much different from thinking someone is a totally incompetent moron.

If Speier (or Cots, SportTrac, etc) had mentioned that he didn't count against the $LTT at all before he was DFA'ed (or when he was DFA'ed), I would have had no illusions about Bloom having a trade in line.
 

jbupstate

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It’s Eric Hosmer for crying out loud. They acquired him last year to competently play first base… as in catch and throw from 1B. And probably hoped he’d hit a little and get something in a trade - that Hosmer had to approve.

Hosmer, Groome, Ward? Probably will not remember much less be crying about their departures 2 years from now.
 

Diamond Don Aase

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He was such a valuable asset, and necessary insurance for Casas! In the end, he was worthless and a temporary waste of a roster spot. Oh well, live and learn.
According to chapter 2022 from the Book of Bloom, Triston Casas was simultaneously an infallible fall-back plan in case Bobby Dalbec inhibited Boston’s offense by hitting like, well, Bobby Dalbec and a bright-eyed neophyte in such dire need of proven veteran winnernicity that it was necessary and proper for the Red Sox to surrender Jay Groome for Eric Hosmer and his resulting full no-trade clause. It turns out that Triston Casas was Schrödinger's bat.
 

Max Power

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That's a decent joke. But Casas was injured in May and didn't come back to AAA until 9 days before the trade deadline. If he was a backup plan in the spring, those plans were dashed by mid-summer.
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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It really isn't hard to see that by replacing JBJ with Pham. Dalbec with Hosmer (and allowing Casas to ease in to a playoff race) and Vazquez with McGuire.... and with Sale and Eovaldi AND Wacha AND Houck AND Whitlock (to shore up the BP) all about to return how the Sox could get into the playoffs last season.
The wheels were very loose before the deadline after a miserable July, but the team showed they could kick ass for a stretch, and I thought Bloom did a good job at both putting a better team out to viably contend while also assembling some pieces for the future.
That it took Eovaldi longer to return, Sale getting knocked out by a freak line drive, along with Devers completely falling apart and JDM continuing his slide was what finally put the nails in the coffin.
If perhaps Casas was called up for Dalbec in June and played as well as he did, Sale doesn't get injured and Eovaldi returns on schedule things could be different right now. Maybe they slip into the playoffs and they collectively turn into the May version of the team.
Every single move that Bloom made I completely understand... my biggest issue with Bloom was the Renfroe/JBJ deal and not signing Schwarber. I'm not a "Bloomer" but I think I'm more objective about this than a lot of people on this site currently.