Red Sox acquire Kyle Schwarber

NJ_Sox_Fan

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I would agree it seems unlikely he plays 1B, but I also think it is even more unlikely he was acquired to be a bench/platoon guy so if no one else is going then perhaps he is that LHH 1B
 

CapeCodYaz

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Overall, I am a touch puzzled.

-Schwarber seems a good LHH/bench bat acquisition, and they don't seem to have a reliable bat they can/will promote.
-He can be mixed and matched with the existing OF-types to create some good PH opportunities. Say PH for the 2B player, and move E.Hernandez to 2B, and reshuffle the OF. (But Cora usually does not PH early in games).

OTOH:
-He brings no defensive value and no great upgrade at his natural position.
-He is injured, which reduces his on the field time.
-He may opt out after the end of the season.

In isolation, it's not a terrible trade. But in the context of the team, we have a much larger potential upgrade at 1B. I can't see how Schwarber addresses that.

We'll have to see if another trade is happening before evaluating this one.
He got hot hitting on the Nats and then got hurt but he is a butcher in the outfield
 

RedOctober3829

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I meant in a game. Listen maybe that’s the plan, but I think this allows them to trade Duran, have more OF/DH flexibility and bolsters the lineup against RHP.

We will know a lot more at 4 today but I just can’t see them going all in on this. It lacks prudence and Chaim seems to be like the most prudent front ops guy we’ve ever seen.
I just think it was an opportunity to add talent to the roster and they’d figure out the rest later. I, too, hope they add a 1B. It’s puzzling to me why they wouldn’t just have extended for Rizzo.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I would agree it seems unlikely he plays 1B, but I also think it is even more unlikely he was acquired to be a bench/platoon guy so if no one else is going then perhaps he is that LHH 1B
It's thinking outside the box. Were they going to get a bat at 1b as good as Kyle's at the same acquisition price? Why not take the risk. Aldo Ramirez is far from a sure thing and is currently injured himself.
 

Vermonter At Large

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Explain to me, in detail, what “streaky, bullshit, all or nothing” OPS is. And then explain why I should be concerned that he’s hit 146 homers over his career.
Because run-scoring is a continuous string of events involving a whole lineup, not the accumulation of numbers. More than 50% of Schwarber's career total bases have come from HR's. He's an above-average HR hitter (at least in Wrigley Field), but still only hits HR's in about 6% of PA's. He's a streaky hitter, hits righties much better than lefties, has power primarily to right and right center, and he'll most likely contribute to team run-scoring during 14-6 blowouts of bottom-dwellers with AAAA starters. He has no speed or defensive credentials.

I may be missing something here, but this smacks of a move made as an excuse for the lack of a better move.
 

bosockboy

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I just think it was an opportunity to add talent to the roster and they’d figure out the rest later. I, too, hope they add a 1B. It’s puzzling to me why they wouldn’t just have extended for Rizzo.
Seems like the Cubs wanted to buy better prospects thus paying Rizzo’s salary. Whereas we absorbed salary to avoid more talent going out. Just not a match.
 

cournoyer

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Overall, I am a touch puzzled.

-Schwarber seems a good LHH/bench bat acquisition, and they don't seem to have a reliable bat they can/will promote.
-He can be mixed and matched with the existing OF-types to create some good PH opportunities. Say PH for the 2B player, and move E.Hernandez to 2B, and reshuffle the OF. (But Cora usually does not PH early in games).

OTOH:
-He brings no defensive value and no great upgrade at his natural position.
-He is injured, which reduces his on the field time.
-He may opt out after the end of the season.

In isolation, it's not a terrible trade. But in the context of the team, we have a much larger potential upgrade at 1B. I can't see how Schwarber addresses that.

We'll have to see if another trade is happening before evaluating this one.
Reading this thread and working on how I feel about this trade I think these points probably summarize it best for me. As was mentioned upthread, we've been using Plawecki as a pinch hitter which isn't exactly ideal, regardless of which side of the plate he hits. Core will definitely get creative with his usage and I think ultimately it will benefit the team. There's no doubt he's been a beast this year.

The cons that RR listed are probably the ones that stick out to me, as I don't think he will be playing first base. It's a nice thought, but he'll have a month and a half at best to learn the position and put it into use in game situations, which is a hell of a lot different than fielding groundballs before a game. My stance on this trade will change though depending on what Chaim does today. They could really use a pitcher (Berrios or another decent reliever), but for me they need a legit first baseman. It's the black hole on this team that should be somewhat easy enough to patch.
 

SouthernBoSox

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I really think it might be as simple as the thought of Renfroe or Vazquez hitting against a RHP in a meaningful playoff plate appearance as unacceptable.

Due to the 3 batter rule, having one of Renfroe/Schwarber on the bench is an enormous situational advantage.
 

YTF

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I doubt they moved Aldo for an insurance policy. Why do people have such a hard time believing he will play 1b? This happens anytime a player is rumored to switch positions. "No way that happens." Then it happens. The board was having this debate with Franchy not that long ago.

It's not like this is a rare thing. Maybe he will fail at it, but I think it's the plan.
There's a need at 1B, both offensively and defensively. This move possibly leaves Dalbec/Chavis/Santana at first for a couple more weeks which means your rental with no experience at the position gives you six weeks to try to lock down the division. I know most folks are thinking playoffs with this team, but I say no thanks to the idea of a play in game when this team has led the division for a good part of the season. For me the Franchy experiment was about seeing if it would work before the deadline and then reassess the need going into today, but that's not how it went down.
 

bsj

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Schwarber played 2 FULL games at 1st base in 2013 with Wareham of the CCBL .... 10 putouts, 1 assist, involved in one DP. So....there's that?
 

NJ_Sox_Fan

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It's thinking outside the box. Were they going to get a bat at 1b as good as Kyle's at the same acquisition price? Why not take the risk. Aldo Ramirez is far from a sure thing and is currently injured himself.
Yes, I love the deal. I would have preferred Gallo overall (light years better on D), but Schwarber was the other big bat out there that was my second choice.
 

JCizzle

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I don't hate it, but I am largely disappointed if they don't bring in a legit first baseman.
I don't hate it either, but the injury concerns me more than anything. He's a rental and not due back until mid-August according to some reports and what I've read here. If there's a set back in his recovery for some reason, we traded for nothing.
 

Jerry’s Curl

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Are there any Mitch Moreland types of 1B out there you'd like to see Bloom aquire relatively cheap that could provide league average production at first?
 

PrometheusWakefield

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The negative reaction to this trade is insane.

I thought we were getting an average offensive first baseman with a good glove who could hold down our weakest position. And I was happy with that.

Instead we got a power hitting offensive stud last seen lighting the world on fire before his breakout season got derailed by a mild injury. I don't know where he does in the field exactly but he is a hell of a bat to insert into our already stacked middle of the lineup. We will make the defensive positioning work somehow.
 

JimD

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I may be missing something here, but this smacks of a move made as an excuse for the lack of a better move.
So they punted with 18 hours left before the deadline? Sorry, not buying it - I'm going to give Chaim and the FO more credit than that.
 

YTF

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I don't hate it either, but the injury concerns me more than anything. He's a rental and not due back until mid-August according to some reports and what I've read here. If there's a set back in his recovery for some reason, we traded for nothing.
And that's why I'm hopeful that this is not the only move to be made. Chaim obviously understands this risk and feels comfortable with the deal he made.
 

DJnVa

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I need one more post referencing the Money Ball scene with Star Lord.

Years from now we will be posting "But where will Schwarber play?" all over this forum and never reference Willie McGee again.
 

NJ_Sox_Fan

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Because run-scoring is a continuous string of events involving a whole lineup, not the accumulation of numbers. More than 50% of Schwarber's career total bases have come from HR's. He's an above-average HR hitter (at least in Wrigley Field), but still only hits HR's in about 6% of PA's. He's a streaky hitter, hits righties much better than lefties, has power primarily to right and right center, and he'll most likely contribute to team run-scoring during 14-6 blowouts of bottom-dwellers with AAAA starters. He has no speed or defensive credentials.

I may be missing something here, but this smacks of a move made as an excuse for the lack of a better move.
The guy literally was just homering to lead off every game for roughly a month. At one point I think he had 12 in 10 games. Leading off. I do not see how anyone could not want his bat in the lineup.
 

BaseballJones

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The guy literally was just homering to lead off every game for roughly a month. At one point I think he had 12 in 10 games. Leading off. I do not see how anyone could not want his bat in the lineup.
I am guessing his concern is that if a player is streaky and he’s already burned through his streak, then the Sox are quite likely trading for his bad streak instead of his good one.
 

cornwalls@6

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The bottom line on this for me is that the lineup, and depth, just got significantly better with his acquisition. Whether he tries 1B, or plugs into the OF/DH rotation, their situational/match up options, particularly with an eye towards the post season, are a lot better now. The injury is something of a concern, and I’d still be on board with at least a defensive upgrade at 1B today, but I like this move very much.
 

Mr. Stinky Esq.

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Forgive me if this has already been discussed, but why not try Duran at 2B with Schwarber in the OF? Sure, Duran's not ready but he's here, he was drafted as a 2B, and he's always a better option at the plate than Chavis or Marwin.

Edit: didn't get enough sleep - then what to do with Hernandez, 1B? I don't know, it's a half baked idea.
 

Yo La Tengo

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Schwarber provides some balance, either in RF or on the bench, if the Sox do land a right handed hitting 1B (Aguilar, Cron, Schoop).
 

Cesar Crespo

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Forgive me if this has already been discussed, but why not try Duran at 2B with Schwarber in the OF? Sure, Duran's not ready but he's here, he was drafted as a 2B, and he's always a better option at the plate than Chavis or Marwin.

Edit: didn't get enough sleep - then what to do with Hernandez, 1B? I don't know, it's a half baked idea.
Duran is probably worse at 2b than CF. It might have been his position, but he was moved off it with no one blocking him.
 

jercra

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Duran is probably worse at 2b than CF. It might have been his position, but he was moved off it with no one blocking him.
Is it Duran's OPS+ of 35 that's got everyone clamoring for playing time? Or is the middling defense? I get it, he's a prospect, he's fast, he's exciting, but, so far he's overmatched at the MLB level. Sending him back down until rosters expand seems like a decent plan to me. Schwarber basically replaces Duran on the roster and shifts Verdugo over to CF.
 

4 6 3 DP

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Would seem to me that he's taking at bats from guys that we all groan about every time they step up to the plate. Sounds great to me. Bottom of that lineup many nights is a black hole and now it will be able to pressure pitchers better.
 

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Aldo is a lottery ticket with an elbow problem. That doesn’t normally end well.

Chaim wins this one.
 

BaseballJones

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Is it Duran's OPS+ of 35 that's got everyone clamoring for playing time? Or is the middling defense? I get it, he's a prospect, he's fast, he's exciting, but, so far he's overmatched at the MLB level. Sending him back down until rosters expand seems like a decent plan to me. Schwarber basically replaces Duran on the roster and shifts Verdugo over to CF.
I'm all for sending him down. I'm not for trading him.
 

bosockboy

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Is it Duran's OPS+ of 35 that's got everyone clamoring for playing time? Or is the middling defense? I get it, he's a prospect, he's fast, he's exciting, but, so far he's overmatched at the MLB level. Sending him back down until rosters expand seems like a decent plan to me. Schwarber basically replaces Duran on the roster and shifts Verdugo over to CF.
Spot on.
 

Devizier

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Is it Duran's OPS+ of 35 that's got everyone clamoring for playing time? Or is the middling defense? I get it, he's a prospect, he's fast, he's exciting, but, so far he's overmatched at the MLB level. Sending him back down until rosters expand seems like a decent plan to me. Schwarber basically replaces Duran on the roster and shifts Verdugo over to CF.
I'm not agog over the guy, but he has 37 plate appearances. If he gets a walk in his next one, his OBP jumps up by .021.
 

mauf

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Oh man we lost Aldo Ramirez???



Who is Aldo Ramirez again?
More than anything, this deal strikes me as a bet against Ramirez.

Schwarber will help if he’s healthy, but he doesn’t fill an obvious hole like Jake Peavy did in 2013, and there’s a chance Schwarber’s hamstring injury lingers and he gives us nothing (though in that case you probably have him for 2022, if that’s a good thing). A GM who is relatively early in his tenure doesn’t pull the trigger on this deal if he thinks there’s any chance Ramirez develops into a league-average starting pitcher.
 

A Bad Man

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Difficult to properly evaluate this trade without knowledge of the medicals and with deals still likely to be made. No doubt KS can mash RHP if healthy. Some of CB's willingness to deal for KS could be because JD has played fairly well in LF this year (in 139 innings, 1 DRS, 34.3 UZR/150, -1 OOA). Also KS seems to have a gun (career 11 rARM), and a somewhat static but smart LF with arm strength plays in Fenway.

I also have to think CB believes KS can play 1B. Not sure this happens immediately, but as has been mentioned, it will likely come into play later in the season. I found this 2016 piece from Fangraphs assessing catcher play at 1B. Not at all conclusive, but gives some credence to the intuition that a catcher should be able to handle 1B - though Schwarber does throw right-handed and has not played catcher for a number of years.

As for Aldo, interesting to note that the tendinitis comes after unexpectedly adding 2 MPH to his fastball in fall instructs last year. As others have said, the writing may be on the wall. I don't have much to go on here, though.

Overall an intriguing deal given the market. Initially I winced a bit losing Aldo, but then saw the tendinitis piece. Ultimately KS is an impact bat. We gave up an exciting prospect with potentially alarming question marks, dealing from a position of improved organizational strength.

Finally, and obviously, this team wants Arroyo back: Verdugo has been below average in CF this year (-1 OOA; -4 DRS), while Kiké has been fantastic (5 OOA; 12 DRS). On the other hand, Kiké has been bad at second (-3 OOA; -1 DRS) and Arroyo has been great (3 OOA; 4 DRS).
 

Mr. Stinky Esq.

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Is it Duran's OPS+ of 35 that's got everyone clamoring for playing time? Or is the middling defense? I get it, he's a prospect, he's fast, he's exciting, but, so far he's overmatched at the MLB level. Sending him back down until rosters expand seems like a decent plan to me. Schwarber basically replaces Duran on the roster and shifts Verdugo over to CF.
I don't think anyone's clamoring for it but I'm not going to dismiss his ability to contribute for the remainder of this year on his first 34 ABs. If he's going to be up with the major league club I'd rather see him get regular ABs than Marwin/Santana/Chavis/Dalbec.
 

cornwalls@6

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I don't think anyone's clamoring for it but I'm not going to dismiss his ability to contribute for the remainder of this year on his first 34 ABs. If he's going to be up with the major league club I'd rather see him get regular ABs than Marwin/Santana/Chavis/Dalbec.
Agree it's a small sample size, but being a legit WS contender, in a very tight divisional race, changes the calculus for me in terms of how many PA's you're willing to give a prospect/rookie to figure it out. They're already doing it to some degree with Dalbec, not sure on the job training for two guys fits the mission fight now. And as noted by others, he could always return 9/1, and get some lower leverage PA's, and also have his speed made use of then.
 

jercra

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I don't think anyone's clamoring for it but I'm not going to dismiss his ability to contribute for the remainder of this year on his first 34 ABs. If he's going to be up with the major league club I'd rather see him get regular ABs than Marwin/Santana/Chavis/Dalbec.
Sure. My post was in response to someone suggesting that Duran be moved to 2nd base. That's forcing him into the lineup and he's not shown anything to justify that kind of talk. Literally every one of the players you listed above is outperforming Duran at the plate, some of them significantly. It's SSS, but it's the only SS we have. If KS is going to replace anyone on the roster, for various reasons, it should be Duran. Once he reaches 350 ABs, then we can dismiss his ability to contribute.
 

brandonchristensen

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Agree it's a small sample size, but being a legit WS contender, in a very tight divisional race, changes the calculus for me in terms of how many PA's you're willing to give a prospect/rookie to figure it out. They're already doing it to some degree with Dalbec, not sure on the job training for two guys fits the mission fight now. And as noted by others, he could always return 9/1, and get some lower leverage PA's, and also have his speed made use of then.
Even in the small sample size, I think every at bat he has had this season he’s battled better than Dalbec and others.

And he’s had some insanely exciting hits as well that has fired up the whole team. I think that stuff lifts teams up, too.
 

cornwalls@6

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Even in the small sample size, I think every at bat he has had this season he’s battled better than Dalbec and others.

And he’s had some insanely exciting hits as well that has fired up the whole team. I think that stuff lifts teams up, too.
I don't disagree, and I like him, and don't want them to trade him. But in terms of the roster, he makes the most sense to open up room for Schwarber, who's a huge offensive upgrade at this point. A few more weeks of work in AAA would be good for Duran, IMO. And a return, and even a post season role, are certainly still possibilities.
 
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brandonchristensen

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I don't disagree, and I like him, and don't want them to trade him. But in terms of the roster, he makes the most sense to open up room for Schwarber, who's a huge offensive upgrade at this point. A few more weeks of work in AAA would be good for Duran, IMO. And a return, and even a post season role, are certainly still possibilities.
Do we need to send him down now that Workman has been DFA’d?