Red Sox Acquire Andrew Cashner

Harry Hooper

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McAdam had an interesting observation:

In retrospect, for instance, the Red Sox might have been wise to wait a day to activate Andrew Cashner and instead, gotten themselves a fresh arm from Pawtucket to replaced the injured Steven Wright, if only for a day.
IIRC, the club's historical pattern has been typically to wait until the pre-game deadline to make roster moves official. In this case, it looks like they activated Cashner before they had to, and it's been a bit of an issue for the pitching staff for both last night & today's game. The 72-hour window for Cashner wouldn't run out until tomorrow, yes?
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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McAdam had an interesting observation:



IIRC, the club's historical pattern has been typically to wait until the pre-game deadline to make roster moves official. In this case, it looks like they activated Cashner before they had to, and it's been a bit of an issue for the pitching staff for both last night & today's game. The 72-hour window for Cashner wouldn't run out until tomorrow, yes?
It's not as though the pen is short-handed as a result of the move. They have eight relievers even after Wright went on the IL, and they're coming off the all star break so everyone should be rested. Also, it's hard to anticipate needing 7 innings out of your relievers when you've got one of your horses on the mound like they did last night.

Really the only guy who's probably entirely unavailable tonight is Velazquez, maybe Hembree as well. Walden didn't pitch at all last night. The rest can probably handle a few batters tonight if need be. Not really a dire situation.
 

Mueller's Twin Grannies

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I know they don't really have the arms to deal right now, but is there any chance the Cashner acquisition allows them to deal Porcello for bullpen help/minor league depth and maybe flip the script on Eovaldi moving to the 'pen? Or are they just bound and determined to do that no matter what and lose Porcello for nothing at the end of the season?
 

Reverend

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I know they don't really have the arms to deal right now, but is there any chance the Cashner acquisition allows them to deal Porcello for bullpen help/minor league depth and maybe flip the script on Eovaldi moving to the 'pen? Or are they just bound and determined to do that no matter what and lose Porcello for nothing at the end of the season?
The Red Sox said they were going to use Eovaldi out of the pen because he could contribute sooner that way, whereas he would not be ready for the regular rotation until later if they were to go that way.

Basically, it doesn’t sound like the starting rotation is an available option for Eovaldi, whereas working out of the pen is.
 

chawson

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I know they don't really have the arms to deal right now, but is there any chance the Cashner acquisition allows them to deal Porcello for bullpen help/minor league depth and maybe flip the script on Eovaldi moving to the 'pen? Or are they just bound and determined to do that no matter what and lose Porcello for nothing at the end of the season?
There’s a nonzero chance this could work with the Phillies, a playoff contender with major rotation holes and enough bad contract ballast to balance it out.

I doubt they’d move Rick in a playoff chase, but something like Porcello/Shawaryn for Nicasio/Velasquez would be a smart move and free up a bit of payroll.
 

Mueller's Twin Grannies

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The Red Sox said they were going to use Eovaldi out of the pen because he could contribute sooner that way, whereas he would not be ready for the regular rotation until later if they were to go that way.

Basically, it doesn’t sound like the starting rotation is an available option for Eovaldi, whereas working out of the pen is.
I guess that makes sense but how much longer would he really need to go 5 innings as opposed to 1+? They couldn't make do with what they have for a couple starts?

There’s a nonzero chance this could work with the Phillies, a playoff contender with major rotation holes and enough bad contract ballast to balance it out.

I doubt they’d move Rick in a playoff chase, but something like Porcello/Shawaryn for Nicasio/Velasquez would be a smart move and free up a bit of payroll.
But with the Red Sox having next to no wiggle room (or negative wiggle room, potentially), this would mean Philly would have to pay the bulk on a lot of those deals which probably reduces the quality of any potential return, right? Would Philly even be interested in filler like Shawaryn, who has not shown much at the ML level?
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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I guess that makes sense but how much longer would he really need to go 5 innings as opposed to 1+? They couldn't make do with what they have for a couple starts?



But with the Red Sox having next to no wiggle room (or negative wiggle room, potentially), this would mean Philly would have to pay the bulk on a lot of those deals which probably reduces the quality of any potential return, right? Would Philly even be interested in filler like Shawaryn, who has not shown much at the ML level?
I'm probably going to think myself out of this before I press "post reply" but IMO I think the Sox should start trying to hang on to guys like Shawaryn and try to develop them as bullpen arms. Serious SSS but he only appeared in 8 games with the Sox, and after his first 6 appearances he had a great line in 10 innings (I especially liked that he was going 2 innings on average): 0.90 ERA, .535 OPSA, 15K's, 5BB's. The wheels came off during his 7th appearance and then the car caught fire and exploded his last appearance before being sent down..... but the general point is is that he's exactly the type of guy that should be broken in as a 6th inning, lo-leverage guy and then slowly amped up over a year to see what he can do or what he could become. I don't think it's great to just perpetually be adding these types to other deals.
There's definitely a point when it's clear that they're not going to make it as even a 5th starter on a shitty team at which it makes sense to start pushing them to refine their best two pitches. Barnes did NOT look very promising during his first.... and he's obviously had some struggles, but if you're a FIPster, then you still gotta like what Barnes is doing this season at 2.60. Every season he's been a steady improvement after his first 3 pretty bad seasons as a lo-leverage guy.
 

chawson

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But with the Red Sox having next to no wiggle room (or negative wiggle room, potentially), this would mean Philly would have to pay the bulk on a lot of those deals which probably reduces the quality of any potential return, right? Would Philly even be interested in filler like Shawaryn, who has not shown much at the ML level?
The Phillies make interesting trade partners right now. Not sure if they’d be interested in Shawaryn specifically, but their four big money bullpen pieces (Robertson, Hunter, Neshek, Nicasio) are all on the shelf, they have a frustrating and inconsistent rotation (Velasquez and Pivetta specifically) and they’re still in contention. They’ve also already pushed their chips in, as it’s Arrieta’s last year and Realmuto’s second-to-last.

Just goofing around with that Baseball Trade Values makes some interesting stuff. In the scenario I pose above, Nicasio and Velasquez make less this year than Porcello and Shawaryn, so we wouldn’t take on any salary. Even taking *two* of their bad reliever contracts in a Porcello swap is worth exploring if they’re willing to part with Velasquez (under contract through 2021) or Pivetta (through 2023).

PHI gets: Porcello + Hembree + Shawaryn ($22.99M total 2019 salary)
BOS gets: Pivetta + Nicasio + Neshek + Morgan ($18.70M total 2019 salary)

- Sox get their 2020 fifth starter, a solid lefty, and half a year of a decent late inning guy in Nicasio
- Phillies get a durable starter in Porcello (who grew up an hour from Philly) that they may want to re-sign, a durable late inning reliever in Hembree, and a high strikeout wild card in Shawaryn

I’d much rather go into 2020 with Vince Velasquez or Nick Pivetta as our fifth starter than Cashner.
 

DeadlySplitter

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I doubt the Phils would bite giving controllable starters (even if mediocre) away for a declining Porcello, but hey, why not ask.
 

sean1562

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I just dont see how anyone looks at the season Rick Porcello is having and tries to add him to their team. He has been pretty bad, and he wasnt particularly good last year either. Cashner seems like a better option than Porcello, so why wouldnt other teams have been in play on him? I just dont see it h appening
 

JMDurron

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"Underwhelming" seems completely appropriate given the general team performance thus far this season.

Given the apparent payroll constraints, and the systemic underperformance across the roster by players not named Devers, Bogaerts, or Vazquez, I'm not sure how anyone could have expected more than "underwhelming." Either Cashner will help hold the line until the other pieces of the team play closer to their (hopefully) baseline ability levels, or at least this trade isn't going to significantly harm the team's long-term viability anyway.
 

chawson

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Cashner is what he is, but to my eyes he didn’t look all that bad last night. He threw changeups for 44% of his pitches — a big increase from his already high 25% with the Orioles.

The overreliance on offspeed pitches makes for an interesting look at what the Sox see in him. The pitchers who throw the most changeups in baseball include Trevor Richards (tops at 38.8%), Joey Lucchesi, Luis Castillo, Zach Davies, Hyun-Jin Ryu, Lucas Giolito, et al. Cashner throws harder than all of them except Castillo and Giolito, and he has a better BB% (2.75/9) than both those guys.
 

soxhop411

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patoaflac

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Cashner trying to win over Sox fans with his postgame comments

ChrisCotillo: Andrew Cashner says he loves facing the Yankees. Why? “Everyone grows up hating the Yankees, right?””

His father runs a mortuary; so yes go bury the MFY forever.