Red Sox Acquire Andrew Cashner

bosockboy

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Two lottery tickets for a 5th starter who’s pitching well is a really good deal. They still could acquire another reliever since they basically gave up nothing of note.
 

Sampo Gida

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He does have some nice box score stats of late. Maybe it continues. If so, nice. If not, regression can be painful.

Hopefully DD not done. Castro might be had cheap. Awful season but a change of scenery could turn that around.

Would still like an established closer but guess DD going with Eovaldi
 

glennhoffmania

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No. If he does not reach 340 innings he's not under contract next season. He signed a 2 year deal for $16 million--2018 and 2019. If he reaches 340 IP it becomes a 3 year deal for $26 million. If he reaches 360 IP it becomes a 2 year deal with a player option for year 3. There's no team option.
That's not what Cots says. It was posted earlier. There's a 2020 option.
 

chawson

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Woud you rather the Sox try to get MadBum from the Giants or Bauer from the Cleveland ball club? Maybe see if DeGrom can be pryied from the Mets? The price for an Ace will be expensive this time of year. You need more realistic options.
No, the cost is too high for those guys. I was holding out for a Dalbec trade for a cost-controlled guy with upside. And who knows who was truly available. I’m not sure Cashner’s appreciably better than Velazquez, but the prospect cost is virtually nothing so it’s not a big deal.

It reminds me of the Kinsler trade from last year. We needed a replacement level stopgap.
 

The Gray Eagle

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Anyone who can go 9-3 with the horrendous Orioles might be worth a shot. That W-L differential to his team might be close to Steve Carlton in 1972.

He's a big blonde, bearded surfer-looking dude, so if he gets people out he could be fun to have around.

I just hope he's not a Dud.

 

Danny_Darwin

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He does have some nice box score stats of late. Maybe it continues. If so, nice. If not, regression can be painful.

Hopefully DD not done. Castro might be had cheap. Awful season but a change of scenery could turn that around.

Would still like an established closer but guess DD going with Eovaldi
Which Castro do you mean? Starlin? Because you may have stumbled upon a decent idea because he's actually pretty good against LHP, (.822 OPS in 99 PAs) and that's secretly the other big flaw with this team right now. He might actually be a decent Nunez replacement. Miami would have to eat some money to make it happen, though.
 

YTF

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IF Eovaldi stays healthy, that should help the bullpen. If Cashner can continue the season the same way he's started, that should help the bullpen. IF DD can find one more arm that would be great, but these two pitchers should cut down on of the overuse of some guys in the pen. That said they're all going to have to go out there and pitch well.
 
Odds are extremely slim of winning the division, would you rather they didn't try to get a wild card slot? A month ago the team needed a closer and a fifth starter. Today (or very soon) they'll have both without adding much payroll. How it all works out remains to be seen, but I'm more than OK with this.
I completely disagree about that. This team started abysmally, and thus tanked their chance to win their fourth straight division. But they have been among the elite in the league since mid-April. Nothing is guaranteed, but no one would want to face them in a one game play-in.
If it's foregone that we have no chance at the division, I would rather them work on setting themselves up for next year.

I would say that we still have a shot at the division, and so that's worth giving consideration.
But the "Wild Card slots" as currently constituted really - in my opinion - don't.
 

uilnslcoap

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I'd rather we get bullpen help
But...a 4th/5th starter that doesn't suck IS bullpen help, right? Taking away innings from the bullpen to lighten the load to make its current members more effective etc. etc.
 

bsj

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But...a 4th/5th starter that doesn't suck IS bullpen help, right? Taking away innings from the bullpen to lighten the load to make its current members more effective etc. etc.
I guess. This feels we are trying to rationalize a square peg in a round hole but maybe with enough force it will fit I dunno.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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The bullpen's problem has been the inability of half the rotation to pitch past the fifth inning (or the fourth, or the third in many cases). If Cashner can throw 6 innings every fifth game and do so competently (say, a quality start each time...6 IP, 3 or fewer runs), that's a huge boon for the bullpen. If the bullpen collectively throws fewer innings per game in the second half, that's an improved bullpen without a single change in personnel down there.
 

RoDaddy

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...a very Gary Bell style pickup
Wayback machine...I'm guessing most of the board don't know who Bell is lol. But one of my best Fenway memories as a kid was running into Bell and his wife (?) in a pizza place in Kenmore with my buds, talking to him and getting his autograph. Nice guy and yes, an important mid-season acquisition
 

yazbread

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Wayback machine...I'm guessing most of the board don't know who Bell is lol. But one of my best Fenway memories as a kid was running into Bell and his wife (?) in a pizza place in Kenmore with my buds, talking to him and getting his autograph. Nice guy and yes, an important mid-season acquisition
Ding Dong Bell. A very nice tie in to Jim Bouton's recent death.
 

Savin Hillbilly

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The wrong side of the bridge....
Seems like exactly the kind of deal I think a sensible GM makes in the Sox' current predicament. It could easily go wrong, but the Sox basically need a lot of things to go right anyway, and at least picking up a healthy veteran like Cashner seems likely to take some pressure off the rest of the staff at an essentially negligible prospect cost.

It looks like part of Cashner's improvement this year is due to scrapping his cutter and 2-seamer and becoming a primarily 4-seamer/changeup guy who works breaking pitches in sparingly. He's in the top 10 in MLB (of 78 qualifiers) in changeup usage this year, and has the second most effective changeup in MLB, according to FG.
 

nighthob

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Wayback machine...I'm guessing most of the board don't know who Bell is lol. But one of my best Fenway memories as a kid was running into Bell and his wife (?) in a pizza place in Kenmore with my buds, talking to him and getting his autograph. Nice guy and yes, an important mid-season acquisition
Nemo’s or Pizza Pad?
 

YTF

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If it's foregone that we have no chance at the division, I would rather them work on setting themselves up for next year.

I would say that we still have a shot at the division, and so that's worth giving consideration.
But the "Wild Card slots" as currently constituted really - in my opinion - don't.
Why can't the Cashner trade be both?
 

Green Monster

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Prior to the break, I was of the opinion that the Sox should hold tight or possibly even sell if things continued in the wrong direction. I was just trying to be realistic about the situation they are in. I was concerned that a deadline deal would be more focused on placating a frustrated fan base rather than improving the team and it would further deplete a thin farm system for a rental piece that would have marginal impact for 2019...........I find myself surprisingly good with this Cashner deal. He is not the type that will win a CY Young award but he will provide stability to the back end of the rotation which as many have pointed out will trickle down to help the bullpen. He has been pitching well in a bad situation (in Baltimore) and can clearly be a positive addition to the 2019 team. For me the best part is the 2020 option in his contract that gives the Sox a jump start on the 2020 roster and allows them to re-allocate Porcello's $20M towards Mookie, JBJ, or strengthening the bullpen.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Prior to the break, I was of the opinion that the Sox should hold tight or possibly even sell if things continued in the wrong direction. I was just trying to be realistic about the situation they are in. I was concerned that a deadline deal would be more focused on placating a frustrated fan base rather than improving the team and it would further deplete a thin farm system for a rental piece that would have marginal impact for 2019...........I find myself surprisingly good with this Cashner deal. He is not the type that will win a CY Young award but he will provide stability to the back end of the rotation which as many have pointed out will trickle down to help the bullpen. He has been pitching well in a bad situation (in Baltimore) and can clearly be a positive addition to the 2019 team. For me the best part is the 2020 option in his contract that gives the Sox a jump start on the 2020 roster and allows them to re-allocate Porcello's $20M towards Mookie, JBJ, or strengthening the bullpen.
Have things really "continued in the wrong direction" since the end of April?

Since May 1: 37-25 (.597...~97 win pace)
Since June 1: 21-14 (.600...~97 win pace)
July: 6-2 (.750)

The pitching needs help without question (rotation in particular), but I'm confused by anyone thinking the team is trending the wrong way. The bad start + Yankees being really good = 9 games back on July 14. They've not gained ground on the Yankees since Memorial Day, but they've not lost ground either. But it's a lot to ask to make up ground on a team that's playing .620 ball themselves.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I'd rather we get bullpen help
This trade did provide bullpen help by allowing us to move Eovaldi to the 9th inning thus pushing everyone else back an inning while alleviating many of their innings. We needed that Miley-type we can rely on to give us a consistent 6 innings every 5th day replacing the previous bullpen-taxing trainwreck of the Velazquez, Weber, Smith, Johnson, and Hernandez starts.
 

bosockboy

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Have things really "continued in the wrong direction" since the end of April?

Since May 1: 37-25 (.597...~97 win pace)
Since June 1: 21-14 (.600...~97 win pace)
July: 6-2 (.750)

The pitching needs help without question (rotation in particular), but I'm confused by anyone thinking the team is trending the wrong way. The bad start + Yankees being really good = 9 games back on July 14. They've not gained ground on the Yankees since Memorial Day, but they've not lost ground either. But it's a lot to ask to make up ground on a team that's playing .620 ball themselves.
Yep. The horrific April has defined the season thus far and has stained the overall impression of this team. They are a very good team that got stuck in the starting gate and likely cost them a division. But no guarantee they would have won anyway.
That said, they are completely capable of repeating. The one game playoff seems to have a glass half empty view. I’d take it in a heartbeat.
 

maufman

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Have things really "continued in the wrong direction" since the end of April?

Since May 1: 37-25 (.597...~97 win pace)
Since June 1: 21-14 (.600...~97 win pace)
July: 6-2 (.750)

The pitching needs help without question (rotation in particular), but I'm confused by anyone thinking the team is trending the wrong way. The bad start + Yankees being really good = 9 games back on July 14. They've not gained ground on the Yankees since Memorial Day, but they've not lost ground either. But it's a lot to ask to make up ground on a team that's playing .620 ball themselves.
I think this is right. If the Sox win the coin-flip game, I’d give them at least the standard 1-in-8 chance of winning a title as anyone else. But they have work to do just to secure a wild-card berth, and even if they do, there’s a 50/50 chance their postseason ends after a single game.

It appears DD acknowledges this reality and is trying to shore up the current club’s weaknesses without sacrificing anything next year or giving up any long-term chips. So unless you know something about the two Venezuelan kids that the rest of us don’t, there’s nothing not to like about this deal. Moreover, another deal for bullpen help is still possible; the only thing this deal forecloses is taking someone in a straight salary dump, and no one worth a damn was going to be available on that basis for the limited space the Sox had under the tax threshold.

I think a big part of the O’s motivation had to be avoiding the possibility of Cashner’s 2020 club option becoming vested, because there’s not much else to like in this deal from their perspective.
 
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amRadio

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Low acquisition cost for a starting pitcher having a good season. It seems difficult to find something not to like about this trade. Cashner's option likely remains in team control or vests which makes him solid Porcello replacement at half the cost next year. If Sale can go back to being Chris Sale, and Eovaldi takes well to closing, the only glaring weakness on the pitching staff going forward this season is the lack of a lefty. They still have chips to address that potentially. I assume this means they're officially over the highest tax threshold?
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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I think this is right. If the Sox win the coin-flip game, I’d give them at least the standard 1-in-8 chance of winning a title as anyone else. But they have work to do just to secure a wild-card berth, and even if they do, there’s a 50/50 chance their postseason ends after a single game.

It appears DD acknowledges this reality and is trying to shore up the current club’s weaknesses without sacrificing anything next year or giving up any long-term chips. So unless you know something about the two Venezuelan kids that the rest of us don’t, there’s nothing not to like about this deal. Moreover, another deal for bullpen help is still possible; the only thing this deal forecloses is taking someone in a straight salary dump, and no one worth a damn was going to be available on that basis for the limited space the Sox had under the tax threshold.

I think a big part of the O’s motivation had to be avoiding the possibility of Cashner’s 2020 club option becoming vested, because there’s not much else to like in this deal from their perspective.
I'm not sure the option vesting is that strong a possibility. He needs another 90.2 innings to reach the vesting mark. With 70 games remaining in the season, that's probably 13-14 starts max and he'd need to average nearly 7 innings a game to get there. Seems fairly unlikely for someone who's averaging under 6 innings per start thus far.

I think you're right that unless they know something about the two prospects that no one else does, this seems to be a gift from the O's to the Sox.
 

DrewDawg

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bosox79

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Both of the guys they traded were signed to contracts that didn't count against the pool (Romero at $275k, Elio at 80k). Elio got off to a very good start but has cooled off a lot since. Romero is a light hitting, good glove SS.

They should both make it to the states but they profile as a 4th OF and a UI. I'm just glad they kept my binky, Brainer Bonaci.
 

chawson

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Cashner has been pretty solid first time through the order this year, a 3.73 FIP with a 14.4 K-BB%. Things get rough the second time through, with a 5.38 FIP with a 6.5 K-BB%.
 

nighthob

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HaHa, not sure, maybe Pizza Hut, but it was close to the area that became the Rathskellar
Pizza Pad was just to the left of The Rat (on the other side of the hair school) and Nemo’s was just to the right, in one of the basement shops (down by the Army Navy store). Although thinking about it I’m not sure Nemo’s was there in ‘67, so likely Pizza Pad.
 

The Gray Eagle

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Both of the guys they traded were signed to contracts that didn't count against the pool (Romero at $275k, Elio at 80k). Elio got off to a very good start but has cooled off a lot since. Romero is a light hitting, good glove SS.

They should both make it to the states but they profile as a 4th OF and a UI. I'm just glad they kept my binky, Brainer Bonaci.
Yeah, this trade was a real no-Brainer.

Cashner used to be a real flamethrower-- per Wikipedia, his fastball averaged 99.4 miles per hour (160.0 km/h) in the first half of 2012 when he was working as a reliever.

He should now take over the lead in the race for the best beard on the pitching staff:
 

glennhoffmania

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Yes--it's called an option because it doesn't happen automatically---it vests if he hits 340 IP and changes to player option at 360 IP. He contract he signed was 2 years. There is no club option. Look at other deals on the Cots page: https://legacy.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/al-east/boston-red-sox/ There are club options everywhere. Cashner does not have one.
I understand what you're saying and you may be right. But if that's what the deal was then there's no option. An option implies the holder has a choice. If he doesn't reach 340 and that means there is no 3rd year no matter what then there was never an option. It's just a oddly worded clause on Cots.

The way its worded suggests that it's a 2 year deal with a club option; if he reaches 340 the 3rd year becomes guaranteed; and if he reaches 360 he could essentially opt out of the 3rd year if he wants. If the reality is actually how you've described then it's really a 3 year deal and the 3rd year is voided if he doesn't reach 340 with no option on either side.
 

Savin Hillbilly

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The wrong side of the bridge....
Pizza Pad was just to the left of The Rat (on the other side of the hair school) and Nemo’s was just to the right, in one of the basement shops (down by the Army Navy store). Although thinking about it I’m not sure Nemo’s was there in ‘67, so likely Pizza Pad.
I worked on Lansdowne St. for a couple of years in the early 80s, and I'm 90% sure at that point Pizza Pad was a couple of doors to the right of the Rat, pretty much where the McDonalds is now. I remember they had fabulous arcade games.
 

nighthob

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I worked on Lansdowne St. for a couple of years in the early 80s, and I'm 90% sure at that point Pizza Pad was a couple of doors to the right of the Rat, pretty much where the McDonalds is now. I remember they had fabulous arcade games.
It depends on whether or not you were standing in the Rat’s doorway. I always turned left when leaving the Rat to hit the Pad for a slice before heading home. No better, or other, place to get pizza at 3am in the 70s and 80s. Of course for a meal Friday through Sunday you turned right and walked past Nemo’s to Charlie’s Deli on the corner (home of the world’s greasiest grilled double cheeseburger).
 

scottyno

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baseball reference lists his deal as a 2020 team option, so basically it seems like no one in the third party tracker sites has a clue, presumably the sox know one way or the other
 

geoduck no quahog

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The only harm with this acquisition is the ongoing fantasy that Eovaldi is a bonafide championship closer, when there's no evidence that the wish will come true. Hope springs eternal (or internal in this case)
 

Danny_Darwin

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This trade did provide bullpen help by allowing us to move Eovaldi to the 9th inning thus pushing everyone else back an inning while alleviating many of their innings. We needed that Miley-type we can rely on to give us a consistent 6 innings every 5th day replacing the previous bullpen-taxing trainwreck of the Velazquez, Weber, Smith, Johnson, and Hernandez starts.
The comparison I'd make instead of Miley would be Ryan Dempster in 2013 - maybe only an average-ish pitcher, but he took the ball (and was a clear upgrade over guys like Allen Webster). A guy like this could have been the difference in 2011, too, I've always thought.
 

bosox79

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The comparison I'd make instead of Miley would be Ryan Dempster in 2013 - maybe only an average-ish pitcher, but he took the ball (and was a clear upgrade over guys like Allen Webster). A guy like this could have been the difference in 2011, too, I've always thought.
If we are going to use 2013, isn't the obvious guy to use Jake Peavy?
 

Danny_Darwin

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If we are going to use 2013, isn't the obvious guy to use Jake Peavy?
My memory was that Peavy was way better for the 2013 Red Sox than what I thought were reasonable expectations for Cashner. But my memory is wrong: Peavy was also pretty much average while in Boston while averaging more than six innings per start. So yes, he's also a fair comparison.
 

Max Power

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I worked on Lansdowne St. for a couple of years in the early 80s, and I'm 90% sure at that point Pizza Pad was a couple of doors to the right of the Rat, pretty much where the McDonalds is now. I remember they had fabulous arcade games.
I think you might both be talking about the same place. Captain Nemo's was in the lower level of the building that the used record store (that's not Nuggets) was in. They had arcade games in there when I was at BU in the 90s. The building was destroyed by fire a short time before the entire block was redeveloped.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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The only harm with this acquisition is the ongoing fantasy that Eovaldi is a bonafide championship closer, when there's no evidence that the wish will come true. Hope springs eternal (or internal in this case)
Fortunately they don't need him to be a "championship closer" (whatever that is). They just need him to be average to slightly above average. In the last ten years, teams have won titles with Fernando Salas, Santiago Castilla, Sergio Romo, Greg Holland, and Ken Giles as their primary closers. Not exactly names that jump off the page as "bonafide championship closer"...until they won a title.