Red Sox acquire Alejandro de Aza

trekfan55

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They keep trading for OFs while Bradley is doing well in AAA, and we know his defensive strength.
 

MakMan44

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trekfan55 said:
They keep trading for OFs while Bradley is doing well in AAA, and we know his defensive strength.
He still doesn't have a starting role in MLB though. 
 

moondog80

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trekfan55 said:
They keep trading for OFs while Bradley is doing well in AAA, and we know his defensive strength.
 
I'd rather have JBJ a full time player in AAA than a part timer in Boston.  De Aza is much better suited for 5 plate appearances a week in the majors.
 

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It seemed like it was just yesterday when De Aza was a decent bat, good baserunner, who could cover all three outfield positions. Kind of like Rajai Davis.
 
Maybe he still can be that guy, but I'm not all that hopeful.
 

Byrdbrain

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the1andonly3003 said:
wouldn't it be easier to send him along to Balt too?
Easier? Maybe, but is there any reason Baltimore would want him? I assume they DFA him and try to get him to Pawtucket, if he leaves oh well.
 

Hee Sox Choi

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Orioles acquired RHP Joe Gunkel from the Red Sox for OF Alejandro De Aza and cash considerations.
Gunkel had registered a decent 2.90 ERA, 1.34 WHIP, and 44/12 K/BB ratio in 40 1/3 innings this season between High-A Salem and Double-A Portland. The 23-year-old right-hander is a pretty nice get for the O's considering they had designated De Aza for assignment.
 

curly2

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Devizier said:
It seemed like it was just yesterday when De Aza was a decent bat, good baserunner, who could cover all three outfield positions. Kind of like Rajai Davis.
 
It also seemed like only yesterday the Sox had more outfielders than they knew what to do with, and now they're giving up a guy who's probably a longshot to make the majors but who has a live arm to get an OF.
 

johnnywayback

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Don't love this trade.  Gunkel seems like a prospect with real, if minimal, value; De Aza is a rich man's Carlos Peguero (in terms of position on and value to this year's team, not skill set).
 

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Carlos Peguero is in the lineup tonight.  Does that mean someone else is getting cut / released?
 

E5 Yaz

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Koufax said:
Carlos Peguero is in the lineup tonight.  Does that mean someone else is getting cut / released?
 
Why would it? De Aza doesn't arrive until tomorrow. 
 
This could be the Celtics Ceremonial Start
 

Darnell's Son

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de Aza hasn't been activated yet.
 
http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/13003585/boston-red-sox-acquire-alejandro-de-aza-baltimore-orioles
 
To make room for De Aza on the 40-man roster, right-hander Brandon Workman was transferred to the 60-day disabled list.
Alejandro De Aza will give manager John Farrell some options in an ailing Red Sox outfield. AP Photo/Alex BrandonDe Aza was not activated for Wednesday's doubleheader against the Twins, manager John Farrell said, though he did not name the player involved in the acquisition.
 
 

Hee Sox Choi

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Koufax said:
Carlos Peguero is in the lineup tonight.  Does that mean someone else is getting cut / released?
They said de Aza is en route from the D.R. so they probably won't make a move until tomorrow.
 

aron7awol

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johnnywayback said:
Don't love this trade.  Gunkel seems like a prospect with real, if minimal, value; De Aza is a rich man's Carlos Peguero (in terms of position on and value to this year's team, not skill set).
Agree completely.  I like De Aza as a pickup, but Gunkel has been surprisingly good and is still young.
 

semsox

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I was fine when I thought it was just cash considerations, but throwing in a prospect who's still a step above organizational filler seems pretty steep for a guy who was DFA'd a few days ago.
 

aron7awol

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Papelbon's Poutine said:
 
But...but...I thought he was Papi insurance? 
He was, and so is a healthy Craig.  I never said Peguero was super valuable, just useful.  He's starting tonight.  Maybe he sticks around.  If not, well, this organization is super deep at OF and yet they still found a way to put him on the active roster and even get him some playing time.  Clearly, they like him.
 

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curly2 said:
 
It also seemed like only yesterday the Sox had more outfielders than they knew what to do with, and now they're giving up a guy who's probably a longshot to make the majors but who has a live arm to get an OF.
 
Yeah, but it's not like they're desperate for bodies. De Aza is a very solid option for 5th outfielder. He can be used as a late inning defensive sub, a pinch runner and an occasional pinch hitter when the match ups call for it (for his career he's about league average against right handed pitchers). If the cost for adding a solid 25th man to the roster, which allows them to keep JBJ playing every day in Pawtucket, is a fringe prospect with some upside, I'm happy to see them make that deal.
 

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aron7awol said:
He was, and so is a healthy Craig.  I never said Peguero was super valuable, just useful.  He's starting tonight.  Maybe he sticks around.  If not, well, this organization is super deep at OF and yet they still found a way to put him on the active roster and even get him some playing time.  Clearly, they like him.
 
Clearly they see him as a warm body. I'm not sure why you're having so much trouble with this. 
 

aron7awol

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Papelbon's Poutine said:
 
Clearly they see him as a warm body. I'm not sure why you're having so much trouble with this. 
No.  An organization this deep in OF doesn't start a warm body in the OF.  Did you completely miss that he's starting in LF tonight?  Give it up instead of taking ignorant shots at me in a thread that's supposed to be about De Aza.
 

Snodgrass'Muff

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aron7awol said:
No.  An organization this deep in OF doesn't start a warm body in the OF.  Did you completely miss that he's starting in LF tonight?  Give it up instead of taking ignorant shots at me in a thread that's supposed to be about De Aza.
 
It's a double header. Hanley looked a little gimpy after his slide into third today and Castillo has been banged up all season. This is exactly the kind of situation where you start a warm body. Besides, Nava is hurt and Craig isn't getting called up unless they mean for him to stay so they're not so deep in the outfield right now.
 

Todd Benzinger

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Peguero looks OK out in left (despite misplaying the monster), and going by fWAR has been the far better player this season... In fact, by that measure he's been better than many of the Sox!
 
Could they have a different move in mind?
 

johnnywayback

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Todd Benzinger said:
Could they have a different move in mind?
 
That's my thought, too -- not that they aren't sending down Peguero, but that, in the long term, De Aza isn't replacing Peguero but rather Nava.
 
After all, when Victorino is healthy, he's the fourth outfielder.  And then when Nava is back, he's the token LH off the bench as well as the fifth outfielder.  Peguero's role was to fill the roster spot without having to yo-yo JBJ up and down between Pawtucket's lineup and the big-league bench.
 
Spending even a low-level prospect like Gunkel to upgrade the player in that Peguero role seems really silly.  Spending a Gunkel to upgrade the Nava spot (and if Nava is toast, this is an upgrade) makes more sense.
 

MakMan44

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HangingW/ScottCooper said:
5th Outfielders are the new market ineffeciency... seriously, wtf?
They didn't give up any to get him & he has some minor upside. I don't see what the big deal is. Is the season so shot to shit that we're going to nitpick every tiny deal Ben makes?
 

soxhop411

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@TimBritton: FYI: According to a source, Red Sox will pay about $1M of De Azas remaining salary this season.
 

Laser Show

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They didn't give up any to get him & he has some minor upside. I don't see what the big deal is. Is the season so shot to shit that we're going to nitpick every tiny deal Ben makes?
"Didn't give up anything" isn't correct. As the post above me said, they're paying $1 million in salary, but what concerns me more is that they gave up Joe Gunkel who is not a non-prospect with the way he's been pitching.
 

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Laser Show said:
"Didn't give up anything" isn't correct. As the post above me said, they're paying $1 million in salary, but what concerns me more is that they gave up Joe Gunkel who is not a non-prospect with the way he's been pitching.
As others have said. This feels like the end for Nava
 

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It just seems strange to give up even a low-level prospect for a Baltimore reject who doesn't seem any better than who they've already gotten -- unless Nava/Vic are much further away from returning than they've let on.
 
 
(I'm assuming Gunkel is too young to become a minor league FA any time soon)
 

MakMan44

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Laser Show said:
"Didn't give up anything" isn't correct. As the post above me said, they're paying $1 million in salary, but what concerns me more is that they gave up Joe Gunkel who is not a non-prospect with the way he's been pitching.
The salary came out AFTER my post so I clearly didn't know that. 
 
And I'm not really ready to comment on Gunkel. He absolutely could turn out to be something, and he could also be the next Miles Head. Too early to say. 
 

phenweigh

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Todd Benzinger said:
Jeff Bianchi seems to be back on the active roster. I'm guessing he goes before Peguero.
Having Brock Holt on the roster certainly allows the front office more than typical flexibility when filling out a bench, but it seems to me that a backup middle infielder is more likely to be needed than a sixth outfielder.
 
Maybe they've decided Rusney needs more time in AAA.
 

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Laser Show said:
"Didn't give up anything" isn't correct. As the post above me said, they're paying $1 million in salary, but what concerns me more is that they gave up Joe Gunkel who is not a non-prospect with the way he's been pitching.
Who was the last homegrown bullpen arm for Boston who came through the minors in the bullpen?  I can think of two -- Bard, who they wanted to start but really couldn't find any control as a starter (yes, I know it was prescient) and Tazawa, who was starting until elbow surgery.  The rest that I can think of -- Workman, Miller, Barnes, heck Papelbon and Manny Delcarmen were all starters as late as Triple A.  I mention this because it would seem from that track record that the organization probably didn't think that highly of Joe Gunkel if he was already in the bullpen in Portland.  Besides, for the longshot of minor league reliever trying to make the Red Sox roster Pat Light is probably the better pick.
 

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Troy O'Lovely said:
Who was the last homegrown bullpen arm for Boston who came through the minors in the bullpen?  I can think of two -- Bard, who they wanted to start but really couldn't find any control as a starter (yes, I know it was prescient) and Tazawa, who was starting until elbow surgery.  The rest that I can think of -- Workman, Miller, Barnes, heck Papelbon and Manny Delcarmen were all starters as late as Triple A.  I mention this because it would seem from that track record that the organization probably didn't think that highly of Joe Gunkel if he was already in the bullpen in Portland.  Besides, for the longshot of minor league reliever trying to make the Red Sox roster Pat Light is probably the better pick.
Craig Hansen? Speaks for itself, I guess.
 

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Gunkel has started 3 of his 4 appearances in Portland, gone at least 2 innings in 6 of his other appearances and had 15 starts last year. "Already in the bullpen" is not exactly fair. He seems to be a long reliever / swingman type at the moment.
 
Having optionable relievers who can soak up innings and make the minimum is something they have been lacking the last couple years as they have filled their pen with guys like Breslow and Mujica, who can't go more than an inning or two, nor be optioned when they get tired to bring up another fresh arm. Gunkel may never progress further but I would have liked to see if he could more than I think they need a bench outfielder. (Or if they did need a bench OF, it seems they could have acquired one who was only a little worse than de Aza without giving up a live arm). 
 

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Toe Nash said:
Gunkel has started 3 of his 4 appearances in Portland, gone at least 2 innings in 6 of his other appearances and had 15 starts last year. "Already in the bullpen" is not exactly fair. He seems to be a long reliever / swingman type at the moment.
 
Having optionable relievers who can soak up innings and make the minimum is something they have been lacking the last couple years as they have filled their pen with guys like Breslow and Mujica, who can't go more than an inning or two, nor be optioned when they get tired to bring up another fresh arm. Gunkel may never progress further but I would have liked to see if he could more than I think they need a bench outfielder. (Or if they did need a bench OF, it seems they could have acquired one who was only a little worse than de Aza without giving up a live arm). 
 
There aren't very many relievers who go more than an inning with any regularity and if your rotation is doing it's job, you generally don't need any to. I think we're going to have a lot of the guys you're talking about over the next few years with Workman, Barnes, Pat Light, Steven Wright, probably at least one of Brian Johnson/Henry Owens and maybe both of them and guys like Hinojosa, Hembree, Noe Ramirez and Jonathan Aro.
 

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aron7awol said:
No.  An organization this deep in OF doesn't start a warm body in the OF.  Did you completely miss that he's starting in LF tonight?  Give it up instead of taking ignorant shots at me in a thread that's supposed to be about De Aza.
Quantity doesn't necessarily equate to quality. We have a lot of OF under contract......that doesn't mean we have great OF depth.

1. Vic is always injured.
2. Craig likely won't ever return due to LT cost.
3. JBJ hasn't shown he can hit at all at this level.
4. Nava is here only because of the 3 above reasons.

That isn't a deep OF.
 

jasail

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I just can't wrap my mind around this. The Sox have both Bradley & Brentz in Pawtucket. There seems to be real value in bringing both up. Bradley can partially platoon with Castillo in RF and spell Mookie from time to time in CF, plus provide late inning defense. Brentz can give them a RHH bat to play LF against LHP and let JF slide Hanley into 3B and DH, as both should never be in a lineup together against LHP.

Seems like a terrible waste of resources to give up a guy like Gunkel for De Aza considering the 40 man . Even if JBJ & Brentz aren't very good, they can't be much worse than DeAza considering the acquisition cost.
 

moondog80

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jasail said:
I just can't wrap my mind around this. The Sox have both Bradley & Brentz in Pawtucket. There seems to be real value in bringing both up. Bradley can partially platoon with Castillo in RF and spell Mookie from time to time in CF, plus provide late inning defense. Brentz can give them a RHH bat to play LF against LHP and let JF slide Hanley into 3B and DH, as both should never be in a lineup together against LHP.

Seems like a terrible waste of resources to give up a guy like Gunkel for De Aza considering the 40 man . Even if JBJ & Brentz aren't very good, they can't be much worse than DeAza considering the acquisition cost.
You can't wrap your mind around the idea that they'd rather have them play full time in AAA than part time in MLB?
 

Byrdbrain

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I don't think they expect de Aza to be better than JBJ they just want JBJ playing every day, he'll be up in September or if another OF gets hurt.
Bringing Brenz up makes no sense at all, the last thing they need is another right handed hitting outfielder.
 
Oh and Hanley won't be playing 3B ever again, if he plays first this year it will only be after they are totally out of it(so not for a couple weeks yet). I could see him there next year.
 

jasail

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JBJ
 
I'd have a greater understanding of having JBJ play every day at AAA if Rusney looked remotely decent at the plate or in the field. However, he doesn't. There are 107 games left in the season over 18 weeks. That's about 6 games per week. For the sake of argument, lets say that Rusney gets 4 starts per week and JBJ gets 3-4, spelling Mookie CF and occasionally moving into the OF to give Hanley a day off in LF. That gives JBJ about 250 PAs over the remaining 2/3 of a season. That's plenty of regular playing time and it doesn't even account for the fact that he may outplay Rusney over that period of time and obtain more playing time. If Rusney figures out how to play and/or JBJ sucks and it doesn't work out, then they can send JBJ back down and find a guy like De Aza at a later date. 
Sure, there is the argument that they're not paying Rusney $10/per to be a bit player. That doesn't hold water for me because they were paying him that to start in AAA to give Shane playing time. IIt's just that at this time, this team needs performance far more than it needs to play contracts. I'd much rather see JBJ get about 100 fewer PAs over the rest of 2015 and the Sox put a better team on the field than JBJ sit in Pawtucket to collect those 100 PAs and De Aza get run for the next couple months (or until injury or further ineffectiveness forces the Sox to promote JBJ).
 
Brentz
 
This is more of a secondary issue than JBJ. I understand the Sox don't need another RHH OF. However, what they do need is another hitter that can hit LHP. To do this they have to spell Sandoval or Ortiz regularly against LHP. As I said, I don't think there should be another game this season when both of these guys play against LHP. To do this, they need to play Hanley in LF or 3B or find a RHH that can play LF and 3B that can come off the bench. Brentz at least gives them the ability to build a better lineup against LHP. He'd also only be a short term solution until Shane gets healthy. 
 
Bottom Line
 
They can't get much worse. They need to field a better and more competitive team on a nightly basis, particularly against LHP. At this point, I'd rather them fail by being creative than continue to fail by being conservative. They may only be 5.5 games out but with this type of play, that's insurmountable. Considering these circumstances, the 40-man roster, and the acquisition cost, I just don't understand De Aza. If they were in a different situation, I'd get it. In the situation they are in, they should be trying to put together the best 25-man roster and lineup they can. 
 

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moondog80 said:
You can't wrap your mind around the idea that they'd rather have them play full time in AAA than part time in MLB?
They'd rather have JBJ playing in Venezuela right now than performing in Boston as he has over the past year. About a month ago I listed JBJ as our #8 OF and someone, I forget who, claimed he was like their 4th which left me confused. He's had a couple chances to impress in Boston and failed both last year and this. There are only so many tryouts you get in the bigs before a team moves on and you gain the "needs a change of scenery" tag like a Middlebrooks.