Red Sox AAA depth

The_Dali

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Something I’ve noticed in watching spring training is how the FO appears to have focused on bringing in lots of fringe major league players to bolster the AAA depth. In addition, looks like a fair number of AA and AAA “journeymen” types who are solid pro ball players but likely have a limited ceiling. Just struck me how good the upper minors will be for the Sox, although some guys are gonna have opt-out windows I’m sure.

I’m talking about guys like. Faria, Hamilton, Alfaro, Koss, Lugo, Allen, Tapia, Goodrum, Palka, Sogard…

Just seems like a concerted effort to have solid ball players in the upper minors instead of just guys filling out rosters. .
 
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Daniel_Son

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A lot of our high-grade prospects are in the low minors. I think this was done to eliminate the talent gap somewhat.
 
Yo La Tengo

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I think most teams would like to bring in major league depth to spring training to protect against injuries, but players will most likely pick teams where there is a more likely pathway to the major league roster.

The question marks around the Sox outfield, 2B/SS, and catcher all likely made Boston a more attractive option for some of these fringe players.
 
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EmeryThomas

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The_Dali said:
Something I’ve noticed in watching spring training is how the FO appears to have focused on bringing in lots of fringe major league players to bolster the AAA depth. In addition, looks like a fair number of AA and AAA “journeymen” types who are solid pro ball players but likely have a limited ceiling. Just struck me how good the upper minors will be for the Sox, although some guys are gonna have opt-out windows I’m sure.

I’m talking about guys like. Faria, Hamilton, Alfaro, Koss, Lugo, Allen, Tapia, Goodrum, Palka, Sogard…

Just seems like a concerted effort to have solid ball players in the upper minors instead of just guys filling out rosters. .
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I ain't heard about them before.
 
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Petagine in a Bottle

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Ideally, they keep Tapia and Alfaro and demote Duran and Wong. But they need to somehow add two spots on the 40; cutting Ort seems like a no brainer. But they are still short one; they could DFA Chang or trade Dalbec. But can they find a way to get another lefty in the pen? That seems pretty challenging.

Think they probably need to trade Dalbec and Duran…but easier said than done.
 
Rovin Romine

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Petagine in a Bottle said:
Ideally, they keep Tapia and Alfaro. . .
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Tapia and Alfaro have no recent history of being even league average players at their positions, and their ages, while not precluding improvement, strongly suggest it's not going to happen. As break-glass ST backups, they're good to have around. But I don't think you cut Dalbec or Duran just to get them on the 40 man if you believe they've made changes to their approach.
 
Petagine in a Bottle

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I’d be looking to trade Dalbec and Duran simply because I don’t think they have much value to the team now or in the future; and they’d be better served with more flexibility on the 40-man. If the org thinks that those two guys can be useful in limited roles, sure, keep them. But the way the 40-man is right now, there’s no real path to keeping them in the minors, seems like Boston or bust (edit- Duran in AAA seems doable but I see no way they can do it with Bobby).
 
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YTF

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Rovin Romine said:
Tapia and Alfaro have no recent history of being even league average players at their positions, and their ages, while not precluding improvement, strongly suggest it's not going to happen. As break-glass ST backups, they're good to have around. But I don't think you cut Dalbec or Duran just to get them on the 40 man if you believe they've made changes to their approach.
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I think it's too early to DFA either Dalbec or Duran. Wongers to the 60 day IL (while not ideal for him) would have afforded the team a better look at Alfaro, but that didn't happen. I really don't know the path to getting him onto the 40 man. Ort is the easy answer, but wouldn't another pitcher be the use of that slot? If Chaim's good with Turner and RFsnyder backing up Casas perhaps he makes a call to DD to see if he's interested in a cheap platoon partner for Hall. I also don't know how you get Tapia on the 40. I'd like to see him make the team, but ATM Chang seems to be a more important piece and RFsnyder adds greater value to the team with his flexibility.
 
Petagine in a Bottle

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They are going to need a third catcher on the 40-man at some point, though, right? They carried four for most of last year and it’s difficult to imagine the team getting through the entire year with just McGuire and Wong. Seems to me like adding Alfaro and DFAing Ort makes sense right now. The problem is that if they DFA Ort, they have just 13 healthy major league pitchers on the 40-man. Which is just enough.

Just have to get through the first few weeks without any other pitching injuries, and hope the reinforcements arrive in schedule.
 
Red(s)HawksFan

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InsideTheParker said:
What? This would be insane. (No offense intended, but really?)
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Why would it be insane? Because he looked good in a few games in the WBC? The guy played for four different organizations last year. He's the definition of a fungible player. Given he's still not arrived in camp and can't be optioned, he's really the most obvious DFA. Besides, he is likely going to be DFA when Mondesi is ready anyway. They might as well cut him now and make due with Dalbec as the utility infielder for a couple weeks.
 
Coachster

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The obvious answer in keeping Alfaro, (especially since Bloom seems to believe Ort is Papelbon II) is to place Paxton on the 60-day IL. He's not going to be ready till May at the earliest, and I'm sure he'll break down in rehab before that.
 
Sandy Leon Trotsky

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Red(s)HawksFan said:
Why would it be insane? Because he looked good in a few games in the WBC? The guy played for four different organizations last year. He's the definition of a fungible player. Given he's still not arrived in camp and can't be optioned, he's really the most obvious DFA. Besides, he is likely going to be DFA when Mondesi is ready anyway. They might as well cut him now and make due with Dalbec as the utility infielder for a couple weeks.
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Agree sadly. I really like Chang but he doesn’t fit with the combined immediate and future needs
 
Red(s)HawksFan

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Coachster said:
The obvious answer in keeping Alfaro, (especially since Bloom seems to believe Ort is Papelbon II) is to place Paxton on the 60-day IL. He's not going to be ready till May at the earliest, and I'm sure he'll break down in rehab before that.
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Paxton is less than 60 days away from returning. There's not a chance in hell they put him on the 60-day IL in anticipation of an injury/set-back that hasn't happened.
 
JM3

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Dalbec as a 3rd middle infielder would be pretty yikes. Mitigated a bit if they have Wong & not Alfaro.

Would much rather keep Chang than Dalbec.
 
InsideTheParker

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Red(s)HawksFan said:
Why would it be insane? Because he looked good in a few games in the WBC? The guy played for four different organizations last year. He's the definition of a fungible player. Given he's still not arrived in camp and can't be optioned, he's really the most obvious DFA. Besides, he is likely going to be DFA when Mondesi is ready anyway. They might as well cut him now and make due with Dalbec as the utility infielder for a couple weeks.
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Well, to me he didn't look "good," he looked great. I have never seen any reason for Dalbec to be on the Sox.
 
Red(s)HawksFan

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Petagine in a Bottle said:
How does the 60 day work prior to the season starting? Can it not be retroactive to a certain date?
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It works just like the regular IL in that you can only retroactively date it a few days at most. It's not like they can put him on it today retroactive to the day he got hurt. It would be retroactive to Wednesday or Thursday only.

Paxton threw a live BP session today. The next step after maybe doing that again in a couple days is throwing in a game. I'm not exactly sure how it works with an extended spring training situation and throwing in an intrasquad game, but he'll have to put on a rehab assignment in order to throw in real games for Worcester or Portland. And once that rehab clock starts, he has 30 days before he has to be activated. I would think first week of May is his likely return date. Can't do that if he's on the 60-day IL.
 
Petagine in a Bottle

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Gotcha, thought during the season you could DL retroactive to when the player last appeared in a game, guess it’s not the same during the spring.
 
jon abbey

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Actually the 60 days don't start until Opening Day, no matter when in March someone is added to the 60 day IL, so it's not retroactive at all.
 
Red(s)HawksFan

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Petagine in a Bottle said:
Gotcha, thought during the season you could DL retroactive to when the player last appeared in a game, guess it’s not the same during the spring.
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It's not like that regular season or not. The rule is an IL assignment can't be backdated by more than three days. Now if Paxton had actually been placed on the IL back when he was hurt, maybe they could switch him to the 60-day and shorten the clock that way. But he wasn't. He's still technically on the active roster right now. He will be placed on the IL before Opening Day though.
 
YTF

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JM3 said:
Dalbec as a 3rd middle infielder would be pretty yikes. Mitigated a bit if they have Wong & not Alfaro.

Would much rather keep Chang than Dalbec.
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ATM RFsnyder can fill that bill and there are others on the 40 man. Defensively I think Chaim prefers Chang until Mondesi returns, but he's going to have a decision(s) to make in the next couple of days.
 
JM3

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Petagine in a Bottle said:
Gotcha, thought during the season you could DL retroactive to when the player last appeared in a game, guess it’s not the same during the spring.
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For Spring Training...

A player who is placed on the MLB 60-day Injured List during Spring Training must spend at least the first 60 days of the MLB regular season on the Injured List (the player cannot be reinstated any earlier than the 61st day of the MLB regular season).
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JM3

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YTF said:
ATM RFsnyder can fill that bill and there are others on the 40 man. Defensively I think Chaim prefers Chang until Mondesi returns, but he's going to have a decision(s) to make in the next couple of days.
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Refsnyder hasn't played 2B since 2017 & has never played SS in the majors...
 
Petagine in a Bottle

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I guess if we want to break this down…*not on 40

Pitchers- need to keep 13

Kluber, Sale, Houck, Crawford, Pivetta
Jansen, Martin, Schreiber, Bleier, Kelly, Brasier, Winck, Kelly, Ort

DL: Bello, Whitlock, Paxton, Mills, Rodriguez

C- keep 2
McGuire, Wong, Alfaro*

IF- keep 6/7
Devers, Hernandez, Arroyo, Casas, Dalbec, Turner, Chang

DL: Mondesi

OF- keep 4/5
Yoshida, Duvall, Verdugo, Refsnyder, Duran, Tapia*
 
JM3

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I think Sherriff gets that 13th pitching job & I think they have to move on from Tapia/Dalbec/Ort. & probably Alfaro.
 
simplicio

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InsideTheParker said:
Well, to me he didn't look "good," he looked great. I have never seen any reason for Dalbec to be on the Sox.
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He may have looked great when the competition of his 4 WBC games was the worst pool. In MLB (including 11 games with us last year) he has decidedly not.
 
billy ashley

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I get why folks want Alfaro, but ya'll realize that almost no one thinks he can catch, right?

Exciting set of tools. I hope they can stash him in the minors but he's not a back up. If he's up, it's with Wong not instead of Wong.
 
simplicio

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I took them to mean they think he only makes it to Boston if something happens to McGuire.
 
billy ashley

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nvalvo said:
He’s saying that there may be a role for Alfaro, but it’s as a C3/DH2/OF5.
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Exactly this. Apologies if I was unclear, but my point is that not many people see Alfaro is a catcher. He's not an option for back-up. He can be an emergency catcher and play some OF and DH but he's not really a long term option for back up catcher.

If something were to happen to McGuire or Wong, I'd imagine Alfaro would get some playing time there, but they'd also probably also call up Hamilton or make a trade.

Catcher is such a weak spot for the organization right now. The minor-league options are pretty bad. because most of them, like Alfaro, might not be credible MLB catchers. I think Hernandez and Scott are interesting minor-league projects with some upside, but neither are guys you want catching MLB games, right now (maybe ever).
 
YTF

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billy ashley said:
Exactly this. Apologies if I was unclear, but my point is that not many people see Alfaro is a catcher. He's not an option for back-up. He can be an emergency catcher and play some OF and DH but he's not really a long term option for back up catcher.

If something were to happen to McGuire or Wong, I'd imagine Alfaro would get some playing time there, but they'd also probably also call up Hamilton or make a trade.

Catcher is such a weak spot for the organization right now. The minor-league options are pretty bad. because most of them, like Alfaro, might not be credible MLB catchers. I think Hernandez and Scott are interesting minor-league projects with some upside, but neither are guys you want catching MLB games, right now (maybe ever).
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Thanks for the clarification. If that's the case, then there's no place for him.
 
JM3

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I mean Alfaro definitely is a catcher. He's played 95% of his innings in the field there including 100% last season.

The question is does his hitting make up for his poor fielding. & the answer is no, not really, considering his career 89 wRC+ & 90 wRC+ last season. That's not a bat you need to create space for.

He has a cannon, but throws out a bit less than league average (27% to 30%) & is a career -18 DRS. So yeah, if he wants to play at Worcester, great, but I don't really see a point in going to great lengths to get him onto the 40/26.
 
Petagine in a Bottle

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If you don’t think he can catch, then I don’t think Alfaro is worth keeping; his bat isn’t good enough to really play anywhere else.

I think it all comes down to how you feel about McGuire and Wong; and how confident you are in Hamilton / Hernandez should one of them get hurt. They are going to need a third catcher on the 40 man at some point, do you do it now and keep Alfaro, or just wait until you are forced to?

Reasonable arguments for both sides, I think. But if Alfaro’s defense is a non-starter, then there’s no real point to keep him.
 
JM3

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Petagine in a Bottle said:
If you don’t think he can catch, then I don’t think Alfaro is worth keeping; his bat isn’t good enough to really play anywhere else.

I think it all comes down to how you feel about McGuire and Wong; and how confident you are in Hamilton / Hernandez should one of them get hurt. They are going to need a third catcher on the 40 man at some point, do you do it now and keep Alfaro, or just wait until you are forced to?

Reasonable arguments for both sides, I think. But if Alfaro’s defense is a non-starter, then there’s no real point to keep him.
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Yeah. It's a bit of a conundrum. I don't think it's reasonable to say his defense is a non-starter. It's definitely a negative, though.

& Hamilton definitely is not a major league caliber hitter. The dream scenario is that no one really wants Alfaro & he's happy here in Worcester as our break the glass in case of injury guy. Or that Hernandez makes a big jump & is ready to step in.
 
Petagine in a Bottle

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Seems like Tapia would take Ort’s spot on the 40 man; Kelly takes the last bullpen spot.

If they choose Alfaro, then it seems like the easiest way to create a spot is from the loser of the Chang / Dalbec battle.

Or they trade Duran.
 
JM3

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Petagine in a Bottle said:
Seems like Tapia would take Ort’s spot on the 40 man; Kelly takes the last bullpen spot.

If they choose Alfaro, then it seems like the easiest way to create a spot is from the loser of the Chang / Dalbec battle.

Or they trade Duran.
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They need another 40-man spot for Mosqueda or Sherriff in that scenario anyway. I'm hoping the Phillies just want Dalbec.
 
Petagine in a Bottle

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JM3 said:
They need another 40-man spot for Mosqueda or Sherriff in that scenario anyway. I'm hoping the Phillies just want Dalbec.
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Yep, they may end up getting little to nothing in return if they have to move Dalbec or Duran though. Maybe they dump Chang or try to keep him in AAA, if he has not major league spots available to him.

Fingers crossed nobody else gets hurt. Running out of bodies.
 
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