Red Sox 2b in aggregate 2019

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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Mar 11, 2007
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First.... I apologize that I don't have time to actually do the research this morning as I'm heading out the door and work in the field, not at a computer. Hoping someone else could pick this up...
Wondering what the Sox aggregate 2B offensive stats look like this season in comparison to other teams. Between Chavis, Hernandez and now Holt putting up good numbers, (dragged down by Nunez)...... I'd guess that they're looking above average at least
 

shaggydog2000

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Apr 5, 2007
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First.... I apologize that I don't have time to actually do the research this morning as I'm heading out the door and work in the field, not at a computer. Hoping someone else could pick this up...
Wondering what the Sox aggregate 2B offensive stats look like this season in comparison to other teams. Between Chavis, Hernandez and now Holt putting up good numbers, (dragged down by Nunez)...... I'd guess that they're looking above average at least
According to Fangraphs they're 15th in WRC+, and 22nd in Offensive WAR (due to bad base running), and 27th in Defensive WAR, for a total of 19th in WAR. So average to bad depending on the stat.
 

shaggydog2000

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I understand the desire, and often do that as well when looking at player stats, but that's not significantly different though, is it? Nunez really did a lot to pull the numbers down. The good news is that between Holt and Hernandez, we should expect the numbers to be considerably better from here on out. Defensive value alone should shoot up. I don't consider it a problem spot for the rest of the season.
 
Apr 8, 2017
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Unfortunately fangraphs' by-position charts may not be very helpful. Those are the total stats for all players that played 2b, including when they weren't playing 2b. It includes, e.g., all of Chavis' stats even though he's played more at 1b than 2b.
 

Savin Hillbilly

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The wrong side of the bridge....
Unfortunately fangraphs' by-position charts may not be very helpful. Those are the total stats for all players that played 2b, including when they weren't playing 2b. It includes, e.g., all of Chavis' stats even though he's played more at 1b than 2b.
Ah, good point. Well then, there's BBref's Play Index team splits, which shows the Sox' OPS while playing 2B at .692, 10th in the AL.

Just for completeness' sake, and while I've got it open, here are the Sox' team OPS and AL rank for each position:

C: .786, 3rd
1B: .744, 9th
2B: .692, 10th
SS: .979, 1st
3B: .932, 1st
LF: .759, 9th
CF: .725, 7th
RF: .908, 1st
DH: .702, 13th
P: .500, 2nd
PH: 1.157, 1st
 
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shaggydog2000

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Unfortunately fangraphs' by-position charts may not be very helpful. Those are the total stats for all players that played 2b, including when they weren't playing 2b. It includes, e.g., all of Chavis' stats even though he's played more at 1b than 2b.
That was a mistake I made. But you can also look at splits by position, which I think isolates just games played at a given position, and it's pretty much the same. Below average. Chavis' batting was pretty close to average, so I don't think they effected the total stats much.
 

chawson

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Ah, good point. Well then, there's BBref's Play Index team splits, which shows the Sox' OPS while playing 2B at .692, 10th in the AL.

Just for completeness' sake, and while I've got it open, here are the Sox' team OPS and AL rank for each position:

C: .786, 3rd
1B: .744, 9th
2B: .692, 10th
SS: .979, 1st
3B: .932, 1st
LF: .759, 9th
CF: .725, 7th
RF: .908, 1st
DH: .702, 13th
P: .500, 2nd
PH: 1.157, 1st
That DH figure is off, no?
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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That DH figure is off, no?
Off how? It's what the team has collectively gotten from the DH position over 93 games (426 PA) this year. Keep in mind that 13 different players have hit in the DH spot this year.

Martinez has the most PA (278) for a .807 OPS, but the next two highest PA are Nunez (41 PA, .430 OPS) and Vazquez (35 PA, .515 OPS). Really other than JD, the DH spot hasn't exactly been a bright spot.
 

chawson

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Off how? It's what the team has collectively gotten from the DH position over 93 games (426 PA) this year. Keep in mind that 13 different players have hit in the DH spot this year.

Martinez has the most PA (278) for a .807 OPS, but the next two highest PA are Nunez (41 PA, .430 OPS) and Vazquez (35 PA, .515 OPS). Really other than JD, the DH spot hasn't exactly been a bright spot.
My mistake, thanks. I was looking here, where it says the Sox have an .847 OPS out of the DH spot (4th), but I think Fangraphs may fold in the numbers differently or something. Carry on.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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My mistake, thanks. I was looking here, where it says the Sox have an .847 OPS out of the DH spot (4th), but I think Fangraphs may fold in the numbers differently or something. Carry on.
They do. As pointed out just a few posts up, Fangraphs includes all the stats for all the players who've played the position for the team, not just what they do while playing DH. So JD's numbers as an outfielder, Vazquez's numbers while catching, Mookie's as an outfielder, etc are all included.
 

chawson

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They do. As pointed out just a few posts up, Fangraphs includes all the stats for all the players who've played the position for the team, not just what they do while playing DH. So JD's numbers as an outfielder, Vazquez's numbers while catching, Mookie's as an outfielder, etc are all included.
Yikes, my double bad then. Thought I was caught up on the thread but I didn’t see that post explaining that.

I wonder if that’s a thing with JDM. He hit better playing the field last year too. May be inferior NL pitching, something psychological, or just random data.
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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Mar 11, 2007
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Thanks all. I was out in direct 104 degree heat with no shade all day so I'm sort of toasted. Anyhow.... interesting how they bundle PA's for positions.
Regarding JDM's "struggles" when employed as a DH as opposed to playing the field- hasn't that been an ongoing thing and one of the extraordinary talents of Ortiz (and Edgar Martinez)? To be locked in while basically doing a whole lot of nothin' for most of the game. It's something to consider moving forward with JDM.... but also makes me wonder if he would benefit from being an exclusive DH, in a way more than just his long term health. If he's not mixing up his role, would he be more (or less) inclined to be focused on his next AB? Statistics make the claim that players benefit offensively from playing out on defense... but those statistics, I would guess.... likely have a small sample size to draw on for players that just focus on DH