Red Sox 2020 Roster Thread

[Red(s)HawksFan]

FWIW, only 60.2 of Brian Johnson's 99 innings pitched in 2018 were as a starter. I can't figure out how to pull those out to get his ERA+ or whip info, though. Eovaldi also had 50 innings of starts for the Sox with a total ERA+ of 133 for the Sox (he also had one relief appearance)

I don't know how to calculate ERA+ but Johnson's WHIP as a starter was 1.451 (4.15 ERA, 7.9 K/9).

Eovaldi's one non-start that season was following Sale's return from the IL. Effectively, he was the long man after Sale was the opener. Hardly worth parsing those 3.2 innings at all, especially considering that was a longer outing than his final start of the year...a planned two inning outing on the next to last day of the season.

To my point about the fifth spot generally being a collection of pitchers, Johnson and Eovaldi combined for 24 starts (111 innings) with a 3.73 ERA, a 1.37 WHIP, and 7.9 K/9. Unsurprising that a 108 win team would have a "fifth" starter with those numbers.

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

Yeah, it's hard to determine a team's "number five" starter when it's a mish-mash of people. Or even in 2004...Lowe's numbers made him the fifth starter, but I'd argue that Arroyo really was that for them.

Lowe and Arroyo had similar numbers, but I think Arroyo was more effective that year

I don't know how to calculate ERA+ but Johnson's WHIP as a starter was 1.451 (4.15 ERA, 7.9 K/9).

Eovaldi's one non-start that season was following Sale's return from the IL. Effectively, he was the long man after Sale was the opener. Hardly worth parsing those 3.2 innings at all, especially considering that was a longer outing than his final start of the year...a planned two inning outing on the next to last day of the season.

To my point about the fifth spot generally being a collection of pitchers, Johnson and Eovaldi combined for 24 starts (111 innings) with a 3.73 ERA, a 1.37 WHIP, and 7.9 K/9. Unsurprising that a 108 win team would have a "fifth" starter with those numbers.

Well said

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

Lowe and Arroyo had similar numbers, but I think Arroyo was more effective that year

As evidenced by the fact that Arroyo was their Game 3 starter and Lowe was in the pen when the post-season began. At least until ALCS Game 3 threw everything into disarray. Guess by that same token (post-season deployment), E-Rod was the #5 in 2018.

 

[Archer1979]

As evidenced by the fact that Arroyo was their Game 3 starter and Lowe was in the pen when the post-season began. At least until ALCS Game 3 threw everything into disarray. Guess by that same token (post-season deployment), E-Rod was the #5 in 2018.

With Lowe's post-season success, people tend to forget that Lowe almost didn't make the post-season roster that year. Toward the end of the regular season, every bad turn for Lowe when he was on the hill resulted in some form of emotional reaction (in varying degrees). His body language was horrible. The other team's bat boys were lining up to hit.

 

[Max Power]

With Lowe's post-season success, people tend to forget that Lowe almost didn't make the post-season roster that year. Toward the end of the regular season, every bad turn for Lowe when he was on the hill resulted in some form of emotional reaction (in varying degrees). His body language was horrible. The other team's bat boys were lining up to hit.

I ran into Theo on the street in the middle of 2004 and he complained to me unprompted about Lowe. I asked if something was hurt I think he said something like, "just his head."

 

[DeadlySplitter]

View: https://twitter.com/RedSox/status/1301273985380954115

 

[soxhop411]

We have discount Mike Clevinger

 

[Sandy Leon Trotsky]

Seeing Devers finally start to hit again is now the highlight of the season for me. I don't know if his struggles thus far have been BABIP related or what but he had me worried that last season was going to be an outlier. The future of the team is going to be dependent on his being a .900 OPS +25HR player. If i'm Chaim I'd talk about a 10 year contract this offseason. He might be a consistently slow starter every season though.
A middle of the lineup Verdugo, Devers and X for the next five years will be enough to anchor a solid potent offense. And yes, I'm aware that X can opt out before those 5 years.

 

[nvalvo]

Seeing Devers finally start to hit again is now the highlight of the season for me. I don't know if his struggles thus far have been BABIP related or what but he had me worried that last season was going to be an outlier. The future of the team is going to be dependent on his being a .900 OPS +25HR player. If i'm Chaim I'd talk about a 10 year contract this offseason. He might be a consistently slow starter every season though.
A middle of the lineup Verdugo, Devers and X for the next five years will be enough to anchor a solid potent offense. And yes, I'm aware that X can opt out before those 5 years.

Devers 2019, first 71 PA: .246/.343/.295.
Thereafter: .317/.363/.582

Devers 2020, first 70 PA: .169/.229/.323
Thereafter: .333/.375/.587

Based on this study (n=2) I think it takes him a few weeks to really get his swing and timing together, or maybe figure out how teams are approaching him this year.

 

[DeadlySplitter]

Red Sox waiver claim a 23 year old catcher from the Phillies

View: https://twitter.com/TimKellySports/status/1301613232122146817?s=20

 

[jon abbey]

That looks like a good score by Bloom, BA had him as PHI’s #16 prospect this winter.

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

That looks like a good score by Bloom, BA had him as PHI’s #16 prospect this winter.

The only thing that gives me pause is why would the Phillies waive a 24-year-old catching prospect if he's that highly regarded? Hopefully it's a mechanical thing (at the plate or behind it) that the Sox think they can fix.

 

[jon abbey]

The only thing that gives me pause is why would the Phillies waive a 24-year-old catching prospect if he's that highly regarded? Hopefully it's a mechanical thing (at the plate or behind it) that the Sox think they can fix.

Maybe a 40 man roster crunch? He has all three options remaining also according to Roster Resource.

 

[E5 Yaz]

Grullon played in four games with the Phillies last September, going 1 for 9 with a double and an RBI. He's been a good hitter at Triple A (.283 BA, .851 OPS) and has a chance to stick in the majors as a backup catcher with pop.

The reason the Phillies removed Grullon from the 40-man roster even though they knew losing him for nothing was a possibility was the same reason they've designated for assignment Nick Williams and Enyel De Los Santos in recent weeks. All three were going to be 40-man roster casualties this winter anyway when the Phillies will have to add other prospects to the roster to protect them from the Rule 5 draft.

https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/phillies/phillies-deivy-grullon-red-sox-catcher

 

[OurF'ingCity]

Bloom seems to be doing a pretty good job this season given the options. Acquiring a potential cheap backup catcher with options for literally nothing is a good get.

 

[E5 Yaz]

Easy to do with primo claiming position

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/phillies/phillies-deivy-grullon-red-sox-catcher

Thanks. Still gotta wonder why they didn't try to trade him a few days ago if he was destined to be a roster crunch casualty in the winter anyway. Have to think someone would have given the Phils something of value for a 24 year old catcher with all his options. The Phils loss is the Sox gain, hopefully.

 

[E5 Yaz]

Thanks. Still gotta wonder why they didn't try to trade him a few days ago if he was destined to be a roster crunch casualty in the winter anyway. Have to think someone would have given the Phils something of value for a 24 year old catcher with all his options. The Phils loss is the Sox gain, hopefully.

I agree ... but I think it might just be that all teams have gotten better at monitoring roster crunches in other organizations and are willing to wait until that team sorts it out for themselves. Unless, of course, the move would involve a heavily-targeted prospect, which might require a trade.

 

[Diamond Don Aase]

Thanks. Still gotta wonder why they didn't try to trade him a few days ago if he was destined to be a roster crunch casualty in the winter anyway. Have to think someone would have given the Phils something of value for a 24 year old catcher with all his options. The Phils loss is the Sox gain, hopefully.

The NBCSports article mentioned the need to add catcher Rafael Marchan to the 40-man roster this winter but the Phillies likely will need to add catcher Rodolfo Duran as well. Assuming that Realmuto is re-signed or replaced, the Phillies’ 40-man roster would have included five catchers. The Phillies essentially chose to keep Andrew Knapp over Grullon, likely at least in part due to Knapp’s greater familiarity with the current major-league pitching staff.

I am surprised that teams like the Mariners did not express more interest but perhaps Jerry DiPoto needed a nap amidst his flurry of activity around the trade deadline.

[Edited for major dumbassery]

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

The NBCSports article mentioned the need to add catcher Rafael Marchan to the 40-man roster this winter but the Phillies likely will need to add catcher Rodolfo Duran as well. Assuming that Realmuto is re-signed or replaced, that Phillies’ 40-man roster would have included five catchers. The Phillies essentially chose to keep Andrew Knapp over Grullon, likely at least in part due to Knapp’s greater familiarity with the current major-league pitching staff.

Even after designating Grullon for assignment, there was still a period where the Phillies could have traded him before attempting to pass him through waivers. I am surprised that teams like the Mariners did not express more interest but perhaps Jerry DiPoto needed a nap after his flurry of activity around the trade deadline.

Not really. They designated him on Monday to make room for a trade deadline acquisition. Unless they got something worked out at the very last minute, the option to trade Grullon before putting him on waivers didn't exist.

 

[Diamond Don Aase]

Not really. They designated him on Monday to make room for a trade deadline acquisition. Unless they got something worked out at the very last minute, the option to trade Grullon before putting him on waivers didn't exist.

The Phillies did not have to place Grullon on waivers until September 7. They may have felt that the deluge of transactions in the immediate aftermath of the trade deadline offered the best opportunity to sneak him through waivers but the Phillies had the opportunity to wait until September 7.

[Major dumbassery was promoted to General]

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

The Phillies did not have to place Grullon on waivers until September 7. They may have felt that the deluge of transactions in the immediate aftermath of the trade deadline offered the best opportunity to sneak him through waivers but the Phillies had the opportunity to wait until September 7 and attempt to work out a trade in the meantime.

They couldn't trade him after the trade deadline, which was Monday at 4pm. Waivers was the only option they had to remove him from the 40-man roster. I can see the argument that they hoped to sneak him through in the fog of other activities at/after the deadline, but the waiver period is 48 hours long. No front office worth anything is going to overlook a good prospect on the wire because they're distracted momentarily.

 

[Diamond Don Aase]

They couldn't trade him after the trade deadline, which was Monday at 4pm. Waivers was the only option they had to remove him from the 40-man roster. I can see the argument that they hoped to sneak him through in the fog of other activities at/after the deadline, but the waiver period is 48 hours long. No front office worth anything is going to overlook a good prospect on the wire because they're distracted momentarily.

I apologize for the confusion, you are correct. I think initial reports that the Brewers had acquired (rather than claimed, as they actually did) Dan Vogelbach Thursday afternoon and the generally bizarre nature of this pseudo-season created confusion in my already-addled brain.

 

[Papelbon's Poutine]

Easy to do with primo claiming position

Doesn't it still mean he had to make it all the way through the NL before Boston even had it's spot make a difference? Or am I confusing that with another order?

 

[BaseballJones]

Grullon's MiL numbers last two seasons:

2018 (AA): .271/.310/.515/.825, 21 hr, 14 2b in 359 ab
2019 (AAA): .283/.354/.496/.851, 21 hr, 24 2b in 407 ab

Seems like a really nice pickup for free.

 

[OurF'ingCity]

Doesn't it still mean he had to make it all the way through the NL before Boston even had it's spot make a difference? Or am I confusing that with another order?

They changed that rule at some point - now it's just overall record regardless of league.

 

[Sandy Leon Trotsky]

Grullon's MiL numbers last two seasons:

2018 (AA): .271/.310/.515/.825, 21 hr, 14 2b in 359 ab
2019 (AAA): .283/.354/.496/.851, 21 hr, 24 2b in 407 ab

Seems like a really nice pickup for free.

And 23 years old.... there's some element of truth about catcher's being late bloomers. These are pretty amazing numbers for a C at that level really. Isn't there some rough calculator that adjusts expected ML numbers based off minor league numbers?

 

[brandonchristensen]

Imagine getting your (possibly) only taste of the Show during a year where the stakes are lower than ever, and there’s no fans to watch.

 

[Sandy Leon Trotsky]

Who exactly is Yairo Muñoz?

Boy what it be great if Bloom found a type that Cashman seems to have over the past 3 years.

 

[DeadlySplitter]

Hall optioned, Beni to 45-day IL, making his season officially a wash.

Christian Arroyo is finally up and probably will get some playing time.

Finally, surprisingly, the newest waiver claim, Gruillon, will be the 29th man for the doubleheader today.

View: https://twitter.com/PeteAbe/status/1303385176005849088

 

[JBJ_HOF]

Ugly day for Chavis and Chatham imo

 

[DeadlySplitter]

I remembered Plawecki got hit on the hand on Sunday. So I guess Gruillon will start game 2 tonight.

Arauz also seems to get the shaft here? Roenicke is saying Arroyo is going to get a tryout at 2B. Peraza maybe has run out of chances.

 

[DeadlySplitter]

View: https://twitter.com/SPChrisHatfield/status/1304061478761304064

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

Woodros was more prescient than anyone thought

 

[DeadlySplitter]

View: https://twitter.com/RedSox/status/1304549517497454593

 

[Humphrey]

You can't do worse facing your first MLB batter than giving up a dinger...which Tapia did.

 

[vadertime]

Doing a quick look at the roster, over half the roster should be turned over in the off season. Has there ever been that kind of turnover here?

Braiser - possible non-tender
Brice, Covey, Godley, Hall, Hart, Kirkham, Leyer, Mazza, Springs, Stock, & Triggs all could/should be DFA.
Lin - out of options and hasn't shown anything. Given the Arroyo accusation another likely DFA or non tender.
Peraza - another likely non-tender
Pedroia - another year on the 60/45 day IL or retirement
Wilson - another likely non-tender, depening on Bradley's status. But I'd hope they would want better.
Bradley - Free agent and I'd say 50/50 at best to be back
Weber, Walden, Brewer - All 3 are have shown they can be serviceable in the rights situations/staff but also have shown what can happen when they have to take on more of a role then they should. Depending on other acquisitions they could be gone as well. Honestly I wouldn't mind an upgrade over them.

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

Doing a quick look at the roster, over half the roster should be turned over in the off season. Has there ever been that kind of turnover here?

Braiser - possible non-tender
Brice, Covey, Godley, Hall, Hart, Kirkham, Leyer, Mazza, Springs, Stock, & Triggs all could/should be DFA.
Lin - out of options and hasn't shown anything. Given the Arroyo accusation another likely DFA or non tender.
Peraza - another likely non-tender
Pedroia - another year on the 60/45 day IL or retirement
Wilson - another likely non-tender, depening on Bradley's status. But I'd hope they would want better.
Bradley - Free agent and I'd say 50/50 at best to be back
Weber, Walden, Brewer - All 3 are have shown they can be serviceable in the rights situations/staff but also have shown what can happen when they have to take on more of a role then they should. Depending on other acquisitions they could be gone as well. Honestly I wouldn't mind an upgrade over them.

I think this is why we're seeing so many of those guys pitching this season...they've (obviously) punted and rather than bring up younger prospects that will a) kick start service clocks and/or burn options and b) chew up 40-man spots in future seasons. If they have any inkling that a guy has future value (say, beyond 2021) and he isn't already on the 40-man, they're not bringing him up prematurely. Maximum flexibility for Bloom to start re-building the team this winter.

 

[steveluck7]

Pete Abe:
And indeed Red Sox announce Tanner Houck starts on Tuesday

 

[Heating up in the bullpen]

Given the Arroyo accusation another likely DFA or non tender.

What is the Arroyo accusation? I don't recall hearing about anything.

 

[vadertime]

What is the Arroyo accusation? I don't recall hearing about anything.

Waiver claim a couple weeks ago. Former top prospect.

 

[Papelbon's Poutine]

Acquisition?

 

[Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat]

That’s a bad typo

 

[nvalvo]

That’s a bad typo

It's probably autocorrect run amok.

But Arroyo is interesting, in large part because of how he didn't live up to the hype. A first rounder, he did well in the low minors and moved fast, culminating in a 2017 season between SF (.548 OPS in 135 PA) and Sacramento (1.065 OPS in 102 PA) as a 22 year old. In Sacramento, his season was ended by a HBP on the hand that caused a fracture.

In the offseason, he was sent to TB in the Longoria trade. Needing at bats, they sent him to the Dominican Winter League. But after a few games (12 PA), he was shut down for another hand surgery connected to the original fracture. This was the '17-18 offseason. So in 2018, he was on the shelf until May, and only got ~200 mediocre PA between AAA Durham and Tampa Bay, and then another injury (an oblique, I think).

But then in 2019, he finally had a good stretch in Durham, posting a .314/.381/.603 line and 8 HR in only 134 PA, before another hit by pitch on the wrist shut him down — again! Then he was dealt to Cleveland... then COVID... then Cleveland's plans changed, and they DFA'd him, and now we have him.

He's posted great numbers in the high minors as a young player, but the injuries have deprived him of sustained opportunities at the MLB level.

 

[effectivelywild]

It's probably autocorrect run amok.

But Arroyo is interesting, in large part because of how he didn't live up to the hype. A first rounder, he did well in the low minors and moved fast, culminating in a 2017 season between SF (.548 OPS in 135 PA) and Sacramento (1.065 OPS in 102 PA) as a 22 year old. In Sacramento, his season was ended by a HBP on the hand that caused a fracture.

In the offseason, he was sent to TB in the Longoria trade. Needing at bats, they sent him to the Dominican Winter League. But after a few games (12 PA), he was shut down for another hand surgery connected to the original fracture. This was the '17-18 offseason. So in 2018, he was on the shelf until May, and only got ~200 mediocre PA between AAA Durham and Tampa Bay, and then another injury (an oblique, I think).

But then in 2019, he finally had a good stretch in Durham, posting a .314/.381/.603 line and 8 HR in only 134 PA, before another hit by pitch on the wrist shut him down — again! Then he was dealt to Cleveland... then COVID... then Cleveland's plans changed, and they DFA'd him, and now we have him.

He's posted great numbers in the high minors as a young player, but the injuries have deprived him of sustained opportunities at the MLB level.

Seems like a worthwhile flyer on a post-prospect guy who may have real talent. Obviously, when rebuilding/retooling you want to find guys who are underrated or who have what you think are correctable flaws. Seems like if we can coach up Arroyo to use the bat to hit the ball rather than his hand, he could turn into something.

 

[DeadlySplitter]

I do'nt think he's a good 2B, more natural at 3B, but a couple nice easy HR this weekend. we'll see.

Looking forward to Houck a lot, there's enough games left for up to 3 starts for him.

 

[Heating up in the bullpen]

Acquisition?

Yes, that makes sense. Thanks.

 

[Sandy Leon Trotsky]

Bloom has put together some promotions, trades and acquisitions (accusations) that have quickly stocked the team with some intriguing if not proven talent. Vertugo, who is already proven....also he's picked up Arroyo and Downs (both 2B), promoted Dalbec and has Casas close to ready by fall 2021. I'm still not sure about Duran... but if all these guys can pan out, they've got a very good future lineup. Obviously, as mentioned, this is all more intriguing more than guaranteed but it's left me with a sense of optimism for the future (not getting into the "ifs" here.

1B, DH, 3B- Dalbec, Casas, Devers, JDM*, Chavis*
2B-Arroyo, Downs, Chavis
SS- X
OF- Benintendi, Chavis, Vertugo, JBJ*, Duran, Jimenez

*future on team after '20 in question

 

[Coachster]

Bloom has put together some promotions, trades and acquisitions (accusations) that have quickly stocked the team with some intriguing if not proven talent. Vertugo, who is already proven....also he's picked up Arroyo and Downs (both 2B), promoted Dalbec and has Casas close to ready by fall 2021. I'm still not sure about Duran... but if all these guys can pan out, they've got a very good future lineup. Obviously, as mentioned, this is all more intriguing more than guaranteed but it's left me with a sense of optimism for the future (not getting into the "ifs" here.

1B, DH, 3B- Dalbec, Casas, Devers, JDM*, Chavis*
2B-Arroyo, Downs, Chavis
SS- X
OF- Benintendi, Chavis, Vertugo, JBJ*, Duran, Jimenez

*future on team after '20 in question

DON'T FORGET YAIRO MUNOZ

 

[Sandy Leon Trotsky]

DON'T FORGET YAIRO MUNOZ

Honestly intrigued by him.... not sure if the ALL CAPS IS SUPPOSED TO BE SARCASTIC or not though.