Reaction to Ryan Braun

CaptainLaddie

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I'll be honest: Red Sox giving Braun a hard time for "PED use" while giving Ortiz (who almost undoubtedly used PEDs) a standing ovation kind of made my stomach turn.  I love David Ortiz in a way that isn't fully healthy (I'm saying that considering I've never met him, I love him more than all but eight people on Earth, and that's not healthy) -- but c'mon.  Yes, Braun went through the whole dog and pony show of "oh, the test was tainted" crap and whatever, but give me a break.
 
Red Sox fans have cheered for plenty of cheaters.  The idea of booing a PED user now is just kind of tacky -- every fan base is guilty of cheering a few on.  Cascading a ballplayer with boos because he used PEDs is just hypocritical.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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CaptainLaddie said:
I'll be honest: Red Sox giving Braun a hard time for "PED use" while giving Ortiz (who almost undoubtedly used PEDs) a standing ovation kind of made my stomach turn.  I love David Ortiz in a way that isn't fully healthy (I'm saying that considering I've never met him, I love him more than all but eight people on Earth, and that's not healthy) -- but c'mon.  Yes, Braun went through the whole dog and pony show of "oh, the test was tainted" crap and whatever, but give me a break.
 
Red Sox fans have cheered for plenty of cheaters.  The idea of booing a PED user now is just kind of tacky -- every fan base is guilty of cheering a few on.  Cascading a ballplayer with boos because he used PEDs is just hypocritical.
 
Frankly, I'd be booing Braun for the way he threw the poor courier under the bus during his original appeal more so than for the fact that he "cheated".  The guy got fired and his integrity was questioned for nothing.  Fuck Braun for being an asshole...couldn't care less that he is a cheater.
 

barbed wire Bob

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CaptainLaddie said:
I'll be honest: Red Sox giving Braun a hard time for "PED use" while giving Ortiz (who almost undoubtedly used PEDs) a standing ovation kind of made my stomach turn.  I love David Ortiz in a way that isn't fully healthy (I'm saying that considering I've never met him, I love him more than all but eight people on Earth, and that's not healthy) -- but c'mon.  Yes, Braun went through the whole dog and pony show of "oh, the test was tainted" crap and whatever, but give me a break.
 
Red Sox fans have cheered for plenty of cheaters.  The idea of booing a PED user now is just kind of tacky -- every fan base is guilty of cheering a few on.  Cascading a ballplayer with boos because he used PEDs is just hypocritical.
The evidence against Braun was overwhelming and warrented the penalty he received. The only evidence of PED use by Ortiz is the leaked test result in 2003 that came back as "inconclusive." Are you basing your claim that he "almost undoubtedly used PEDs" on that single inconclusive drug test (and ignoring all the others he passed since then) or are you basing it on the fact the Ortiz has had a potential Hall of Fame career? One of the the things I hate about the steroid era is that any player with career numbers above average is automatically assumed to be a PED user. As far as booing players, I don't do it because I think it is impolite and disrespectful.
 

TheoShmeo

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Another Braun/Ortiz difference is that even if Papi did cheat, the "evidence" comes from an era when cheating was rampant. Braun cheated post-testing when seemingly fewer guys are doing it. To me, cheating now is worse than cheating when it was done by a large percentage of players.

Either way, Braun has said that the booing really bothers him. Good. If there is even a slight possibility that the treatment of Braun will make him less effective, the Boston crowd should keep it up and amp it up.

As to second guesses, I thought that Farrell stayed with Buck too long last night. I get trying to save the pen, but there was a game to be won and Clay wasn't getting many guys out.
 

MoGator71

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Red(s)HawksFan said:
 
Frankly, I'd be booing Braun for the way he threw the poor courier under the bus during his original appeal more so than for the fact that he "cheated".  The guy got fired and his integrity was questioned for nothing.  Fuck Braun for being an asshole...couldn't care less that he is a cheater.
Absolutely this. Generally speaking, PED use is kind of like political scandal, where most people don't actually give much of a damn but its a chance to say "gotcha" at a guy on the other side. But in rare cases like Braun where the guy goes above and beyond the PED thing to specifically make a douche of himself...boo away, I say.
 

Average Reds

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CaptainLaddie said:
I'll be honest: Red Sox giving Braun a hard time for "PED use" while giving Ortiz (who almost undoubtedly used PEDs) a standing ovation kind of made my stomach turn.  I love David Ortiz in a way that isn't fully healthy (I'm saying that considering I've never met him, I love him more than all but eight people on Earth, and that's not healthy) -- but c'mon.  Yes, Braun went through the whole dog and pony show of "oh, the test was tainted" crap and whatever, but give me a break.
 
Red Sox fans have cheered for plenty of cheaters.  The idea of booing a PED user now is just kind of tacky -- every fan base is guilty of cheering a few on.  Cascading a ballplayer with boos because he used PEDs is just hypocritical.
I'll be honest: using the 2003 "positive" test to create a false equivalence between Ortiz and Braun makes my stomach turn.

Im certain that you are right about Ortiz. There is still no relevance to anything associated with what happened with Braun and you should know it.

Do better than this.
 

snowmanny

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Average Reds said:
I'll be honest: using the 2003 "positive" test to create a false equivalence between Ortiz and Braun makes my stomach turn.

Im certain that you are right about Ortiz. There is still no relevance to anything associated with what happened with Braun and you should know it.

Do better than this.
He's probably right about Ortiz. "Certain"? We do not even know what substance tested positive.  Some of the substances weren't on the banned list in 2003. 
 
I agree the booing is stupid. But it is also true that Braun is more than just another PED user; he was caught and instead of taking responsibility he was tried to ruin other people.  So Braun revealed himself as a crappy person.
 

MoGator71

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snowmanny said:
He's probably right about Ortiz. "Certain"? We do not even know what substance tested positive.  Some of the substances weren't on the banned list in 2003. 
 
I agree the booing is stupid. But it is also true that Braun is more than just another PED user; he was caught and instead of taking responsibility he was tried to ruin other people.  So Braun revealed himself as a crappy person.
 
There's also a perception, fair or not, that there was a double standard. Latin players get popped and they go away, a white guy gets caught and got off on a technicality. Throw in that he probably should have gotten a double pop since it was his second go around, but he's a Brewer and Bud's the commissioner. 
 

Plympton91

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Just to add to the claims of false equivalence. We do not know anything about what David Ortiz did or did not do with certainty. He has turned himself into a different hitter and slimmed down as he aged, plausibly accounting for the lack of dropoff in average and doubles. He certainly is hitting fewer HRs as expected. He probably tested positive for something in 2003, but we never learned what it was and he's never had a hint since. I assume that pre 2003, more than half of all players were doing something, so it would be no surprise if he were one of them. But to single out him in the OP and not Nomar, Valentin, Pedro, or any of the other players we cheered during the steroid era is really just trolling.

And that's before discussing Braun's "looking for the real killer" routine.
 

Andrew

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As others have mentioned, this is why Braun is a scumbag. At least the other people who cheated are only affecting themselves and those inside their sport. Instead of admitting the truth when he was caught, he decided to tear down anyone around him he could. This isn't doing due dilligence in protecting yourself legally, it was exploiting a loophole that has since been closed and trying to destroy someone's integrity while he did it. Fuck Braun. He deserves to be booed. 
 

epraz

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There are legitimate moral frameworks under which one could hate Braun and love Ortiz, but in general, trying to make sure the emotional reactions of an unorganized group of 30,000 people are consistent is going to be unfulfilling.
 

Tim Naehrings Girl

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Red(s)HawksFan said:
 
Frankly, I'd be booing Braun for the way he threw the poor courier under the bus during his original appeal more so than for the fact that he "cheated".  The guy got fired and his integrity was questioned for nothing.  Fuck Braun for being an asshole...couldn't care less that he is a cheater.
This 1000%.  Ryan Braun is total scum having nothing at all to do with if he took PED's.
 

soxfaninyankeeland

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Plympton91 said:
And that's before discussing Braun's "looking for the real killer" routine.
 
Papi has one of those as well:
 
"Today I was informed by a reporter that I was on the 2003 list of MLB players to test positive for performance-enhancing substances. This happened right before our game, and the news blindsided me.
"I want to talk about this situation and I will as soon as I have more answers. In the meantime I want to let you know how I am approaching this situation. One, I have already contacted the Players Association to confirm if this report is true. I have just been told that the report is true. Based on the way I have lived my life, I am surprised to learn I tested positive.
"Two, I will find out what I tested positive for. And, three, based on whatever I learn, I will share this information with my club and the public. You know me -- I will not hide and I will not make excuses."
 
-David Ortiz, 7/31/09. Still waiting.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4366335
 
edit-forgot link
 

barbed wire Bob

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soxfaninyankeeland said:
Papi has one of those as well:

 
-David Ortiz, 7/31/09. Still waiting.
In the wake of Mondays biogenesis suspensions, David Ortiz was asked by radio station WEEI prior to Tuesday nights game if anyone had ever told him what he had reportedly tested positive for during Major League Baseballs supposedly anonymous 2003 survey testing, a result revealed by the New York Times in July 2009. Heres his response.



No. Nobody. Not MLB. Not the Players Association. Nobody. They just threw it out there that I tested positive on this one list and that was it. Nothing. So I have to deal with that, and your mind is all over the place. And Ive lived with it.
I dont think Im going to have a worse year than 09 and I came out of it. Thats the one thing I look at and the one thing I tell myself, If you survive through that, youre a warrior. A lot of things went down that year. Things I had nothing to do with. It was somebody was trying to hurt me.
It is something that is still in the dark because nobody ever had the [guts] to come to me and say, This is what was happening. You damaged my image at the time, and it has always stayed like that. No explanation. No nothing.
A lot of things happen in your career that has to do with bad people trying to do stupid things.
http://mlb.si.com/2013/08/07/david-ortiz-peds-biogenesis/