RD2/#62 - Brady's Heir to the Throne

[mabrowndog]

All hail Jimmy Garoppolo, Lord of Lords, reigning over the Kingdom of Eastern Illinois.
 
Either praise the genius of Belichick Almighty, or denigrate the attributes of Tony Romo Jr.

 

[Mystic Merlin]

I hope to hell he becomes as good as Tony Romo.

 

[soxfan121]

I hope we never need to find out if he's good. 
 
BREAK GLASS IN CASE OF EMERGENCY should be on the back of his uniform. And I really hope he fares better than poor Brian Hoyer after he finishes four years as Brady's backup.

 

[( . ) ( . ) and (_!_)]

I hope to hell he becomes as good as Tony Romo.

....minus the pants shitting.

I'd honestly rather he just flat out sucks then be good enough to get everyone's hopes up to shit his pants at the biggest moments.

 

[Stitch01]

Is there a third option? I'm not close to either of these two.

 

[soxhop411]

Mike Loyko ‏@NEPD_Loyko  1m
If the Rumors are true that Houston wanted Garappolo, the Patriots just made an AFC opponent worse and may have forced their hand

 

[mascho]

Not a fan of this, at all.
 
I don't mind them going QB.  I just think they could have waited until at least the third round and drafted a QB.  And likely someone who is a better QB to boot.  

 

[Reverend]

 

My favorite part of the draft every year is when Belichick trolls everyone.

 

 

[axx]

Only really makes sense if they think JG will be competing for the starter job before Brady's contract is up.

 

[( . ) ( . ) and (_!_)]

Not a fan of this, at all.
 
I don't mind them going QB.  I just think they could have waited until at least the third round and drafted a QB.  And likely someone who is a better QB to boot.  

Who do you like better at QB? I'm just curious

 

[wiffleballhero]

I don't know, this sure seems like a waste of a draft pick. There are countless real needs where presumably there are players who could contribute to a team with a chance to win. If Brady is gone in the near future, those teams are not going to win with this guy or with some retread picked up an hour after Brady's injury. So why waste the pick (unless maybe he can be traded for more pieces?)? So it seems you take away a chance to add some depth to positions that really matter for a pick that adds depth to the position where, really, there is only a depth chart of one that is meaningful if the Pats are going to win.

 

[Cellar-Door]

In the middle, I like it since I don't think you can count on Brady to be healthy every game for 4 more years. If he is, great, you burned a second to have a cheap backup QB. If not, good to have a guy you think can play.

 

[Klostrophobic]

Sick sick sick. Too bad Brady is gonna play another 7 years.

 

[AbbyNoho]

Our choices are he never starts a game or is the best QB of all time. Hmmm

 

[mascho]

Who do you like better at QB? I'm just curious

 
The SEC M triplets.  Mettenberger/McCarron/Murray.  I've defended AJ in many posts this offseason, and was really hoping he'd be coming to Foxboro.  
 
As for JG, he struggled handing pressure and things won't get easier for him in the NFL.  I think there is something to be said for the level of competition you face in college, especially as a QB.  

 

[soxfan121]

Our choices are he never starts a game or is the best QB of all time. Hmmm

 

 

[DaveRoberts'Shoes]

Well, everyone forgot about Easley's knees all of a sudden.

All part of the Belichikian master plan...

 

[tims4wins]

Seriously, where is the vote of this is a smart pick but he will ride the bench for 3-4 years and then the Pats will pick Brady's successor in 2017-2018??

 

[mabrowndog]

Is there a third option? I'm not close to either of these two.

 
Nope. No fence sitting. Pick a side and defend it to the death.

 

[dcmissle]

<p>
Mike Loyko ‏@NEPD_Loyko  1mmabrowndog is a dingus
If the Rumors are true that Houston wanted Garappolo, the Patriots just made an AFC opponent worse and may have forced their hand

This viewpoint is just so fucked up on every level. NO -- BoB is not going to knuckle under and give you a king's ransom for Mallet cause you grabbed JG. And the draft is about making YOU better, not weakening your opponents -- and in any case, Houston would not top the list of teams you would need to weaken.

This aside, I fully expected QB to be picked with the second rounder, just one of the M boys, not JG. But I'm no QB expert, so jury out for me

 

[HomeRunBaker]

 
The SEC M triplets.  Mettenberger/McCarron/Murray.  I've defended AJ in many posts this offseason, and was really hoping he'd be coming to Foxboro.  
 
As for JG, he struggled handing pressure and things won't get easier for him in the NFL.  I think there is something to be said for the level of competition you face in college, especially as a QB.  

There are a gazillion successful QBs over the years who refute the claim of your last sentence.

 

[Stitch01]

I don't know, this sure seems like a waste of a draft pick. There are countless real needs where presumably there are players who could contribute to a team with a chance to win. If Brady is gone in the near future, those teams are not going to win with this guy or with some retread picked up an hour after Brady's injury. So why waste the pick (unless maybe he can be traded for more pieces?)? So it seems you take away a chance to add some depth to positions that really matter for a pick that adds depth to the position where, really, there is only a depth chart of one that is meaningful if the Pats are going to win.

I don't mean this to address you directly per se, but I'm curious if there's much overlap between people with this line of thought about chances of winning if Brady gets hurt and people who think the Pats have built a top five defense with their moves this offseason? Because if you believe the latter, I don't think the former is true.

 

[mabrowndog]

There are a gazillion successful QBs over the years who refute the claim of your last sentence.

 
Phil Simms, Morehead State. Man, he sucked.

 

[ifmanis5]

I'm more confused then anything.
 

 

[mascho]

There are a gazillion successful QBs over the years who refute the claim of your last sentence.

 
And I hope that soon there will be a gazillion and one.  But having watched a metric shit ton of the M triplets, as well as a ton of film on JG, as well as every Senior Bowl practice JG was in, I don't see it.  

 

[soxfan121]

As for JG, he struggled handing pressure and things won't get easier for him in the NFL.  I think there is something to be said for the level of competition you face in college, especially as a QB.  

 
At least he didn't lose his starting job during his senior year.

 

[smokin joe wood]

I produced 4-5 of Garoppolo's games this past season. He was the best player on the field by a wide margin in each game he played. Garoppolo's deep ball is simply something to behold. I saw him repeatedly put it on receiver's hands from 30+ yards in the air. 
 
Comes from an Art Briles system. Not a ton of work from under center. 

 

[Dollar]

 
Nope. No fence sitting. Pick a side and defend it to the death.

 
You could have at least given an "all of the above" option.
 
It wasn't the pick I expected, and it's probably not what I would have done, but BB has his drafting methods and they've worked very well over the years, and he doesn't want to change his ways.  JG probably had a first-round grade, and he was just too valuable to pass up at that point in the draft.  I think over time we've seen that it's a lot easier for the Pats to find a late round pick/UDFA at a non-QB position who can fit into the Pats' scheme and be productive, while the QB options are not going to be nearly as good later on (ignoring the Brady pick because times and the draft process have changed since then.)  In the end, it was too much value at a valuable position and BB had to make the move. 

 

[Devizier]

There are a gazillion successful QBs over the years who refute the claim of your last sentence.

 
At this point, it's almost the opposite being true.

 

[soxhop411]

I produced 4-5 of Garoppolo's games this past season. He was the best player on the field by a wide margin in each game he played. Garoppolo's deep ball is simply something to behold. I saw him repeatedly put it on receiver's hands from 30+ yards in the air. 
 
Comes from an Art Briles system. Not a ton of work from under center. 

Thanks for the info.

 

[mpx42]

This viewpoint is just so fucked up on every level. NO -- BoB is not going to knuckle under and give you a king's ransom for Mallet cause you grabbed JG. And the draft is about making YOU better, not weakening your opponents -- and in any case, Houston would not top the list of teams you would need to weaken.

This aside, I fully expected QB to be picked with the second rounder, just one of the M boys, not JG. But I'm no QB expert, so jury out for me

 
Try following Mike Loyko for a week on Twitter without wanting to break something.

 

[Klostrophobic]

Very recently I would have agreed with the "backup QB on the Patriots is useless because if Brady goes down the season is over" meme, but now with the way the defense is headed a backup QB could be really valuable. This team could be good enough to go deep in the playoffs if Brady goes down. Look two years forward: if the Patriots have the best defense in the AFC will it be a complete and utter shock? Having someone on the roster who can step in and be reasonably effective is an important piece, and until Garropolo was drafted there was no backup on the team for 2015.
 
Plus it's hard to grade any single move in the vacuum. Let's see what happens with Mallett.

 

[DJnVa]

 Garoppolo's deep ball is simply something to behold. I saw him repeatedly put it on receiver's hands from 30+ yards in the air. 
 

 
NFL.com disagrees:
 

Does not rip the deep out or drive the ball with high RPMs. Undershoots and often hangs the deep ball. Makes receivers work for the ball downfield, and deep accuracy could stand to improve. 
 

 

[( . ) ( . ) and (_!_)]

 
NFL.com disagrees:
 

He will fit right in with Brady!

 

[smokin joe wood]

 
NFL.com disagrees:
 

 
That's fine. They're pros and they see things I don't. 
 
I had Garoppolo five times last year and get to watch each play from at least four angles and replay. He was specifically impressive throwing deep balls down the sidelines in each game I did. Eastern Illinois is also famous for having really high winds at their home stadium. 
 
Fun fact: Garoppolo threw for something like 300+ yards and 4 TDs in the first half of a game this year without his top two WR. 

 

[dcmissle]

Very recently I would have agreed with the "backup QB on the Patriots is useless because if Brady goes down the season is over" meme, but now with the way the defense is headed a backup QB could be really valuable. This team could be good enough to go deep in the playoffs if Brady goes down. Look two years forward: if the Patriots have the best defense in the AFC will it be a complete and utter shock? Having someone on the roster who can step in and be reasonably effective is an important piece, and until Garropolo was drafted there was no backup on the team for 2015.
 
Plus it's hard to grade any single move in the vacuum. Let's see what happens with Mallett.

And in connection with Mallet, consider again SJWs post -- not a lot of work under center. So the new kid needs to learn the offense, has to adjust to a much higher level of completion and has to master really basic stuff like playing under center. For a rookie, that's a bridge too far foe the 2014 season.

 

[mascho]

And in connection with Mallet, consider again SJWs post -- not a lot of work under center. So the new kid needs to learn the offense, has to adjust to a much higher level of completion and has to master really basic stuff like playing under center. For a rookie, that's a bridge too far foe the 2014 season.

 
I posted this in our QB thread:
 

 
 
Watching Garoppolo, Derek Carr and David Fales work out in practice, and it illustrates just how tough it is to evaluate a college QB and translate/predict NFL success.  The Jags' QB coach is working on their alignment and "cheat step," basically working on how they line up under center and drop their left foot back to ease the escape from the center, and "cheat step" towards the center with their right foot at the snap to avoid a fumble.  A lot of these QBs run primarily shotgun-based offenses and have to "re-learn" lining up under center, traditional dropbacks, executing play-fakes when starting under center, etc.  

 
He definitely needed work under center.  

 

[Klostrophobic]

And in connection with Mallet, consider again SJWs post -- not a lot of work under center. So the new kid needs to learn the offense, has to adjust to a much higher level of completion and has to master really basic stuff like playing under center. For a rookie, that's a bridge too far foe the 2014 season.

Is learning to accept the football from the Center that hard? Cam Newton couldn't do it either and he went #1 overall. Learning the offense and adjusting to a much higher level of competition is something every single rookie QB has to do.
 
I'm not a scout so I'm not gonna pretend like I can tell you the difference between Jimmy Garropolo and Blake Bortles, let alone Jimmy Garropolo and AJ McCarron.

 

[singaporesoxfan]

Also, Brady going down doesn't necessarily mean a 2008-style season-ending injury. If Brady's out for a few games like Aaron Rodgers last season it'd be nice to have a backup hold the fort and keep the Pats in the playoff hunt till Brady comes back.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

These threads are always great.  I know our friend Yammer always likes to make fun of the whole In Bill Belichick I Trust bias here but, for fuck's sake its entirely deserved.  I don't think I have to go through the reasons why except that I will once again remind everyone that he got a team with a decimated defense and no true receiving option to the AFCG last year.  And he won his first Superbowl with a bunch of UDFAs the first time around.
 
Do you really think anyone in this thread has more knowledge or feel for the value of someone like Garoppolo than BB or his staff?  To be clear, I am not saying we shouldn't discuss him or even pick apart his strengths and weaknesses.  However if Belichick thinks the guy is worth spending a second round pick on, rather than trading it for a shot to draft a Rutgers DB two rounds later, well, then I am onboard until proven otherwise.   

 

[Reverend]

Oh fer...
 
I, personally, am soliciting a dissenting opinion. But said opinion for which I am searching is for an evaluation of the actual player taken, and not a discussion of whether or not Belichick is smart.
 
I feel the same way about arguments as to why he would be good in the Patriots system.
 
is there any chance of discussing the player and the team and not just the choice?

 

[Stitch01]

So, are dissenting opinions not allowed? If you're going to play the "he's Belichick and you're not" card then what is the point of these threads?

Its sort of a tension because that sentiment bugs me too at times, more on other boards.

Where I come out personally is that BB for sure makes errors and thought out dissenting opinions make better discussion, particularly on player evaluation where I think even the best miss a ton, but I'm never going to get worked up over something as relatively minor as a single draft pick or trade or probably even whole draft I don't like because there's a pretty good chance I'm going to like how everything turns out and the long-term plan is very likely sound.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

So, are dissenting opinions not allowed? If you're going to play the "he's Belichick and you're not" card then what is the point of these threads?

 
To be clear, of course you should dissent.  But I mean isn't the latter part really true?  
 
Do you really feel qualified to take the other side of his decision making?  I know there are some very knowledgeable folks in this forum and I value their opinions.  However they are the opinions of a bunch of folks on a messageboard versus those of NFL professionals - professionals, I might add, who have a long track record of success in identifying talent.  
 
I would be interested to hear why Garoppolo was a reach here and why the Pats made a big mistake.  However, until proven otherwise, the team gets the benefit of the doubt while others here have a higher bar.

 

[DJnVa]

He just seems to check off a lot of boxes on what BB looks for:
 
--high football IQ
--mobile in pocket (a valuable trait Brady has as well) without losing his receivers
--quick decision maker
--team leader, and started all 4 years (durable)
--hard worker
 
Of course there are weaknesses, but he seems to be the type of guy that BB likes. I'm 99% sure he'll say something like "He's just a good football player" when he talks about him.

 

[wutang112878]

I hate spending a 2nd rounder on a guy I hope never sees the field anytime soon.

Putting emotion aside, this probably makes a lot of sense. If you think he is worth the 2nd round grade then you have a high quality backup. There is also the possibility, although its not great, that you can indeed groom him to be Brady's successor but most likely that's not happening on his rookie deal.



I hate spending a 2nd rounder on a guy I hope never sees the field anytime soon.

 

[DJnVa]

I hate spending a 2nd rounder on a guy I hope never sees the field anytime soon.

 
Good thing Bortles wasn't available at 29 then.
 
If that rumor is true, then clearly the Pats had QB down as a very important part of this draft process. If that extended beyond Bortles and JG I don't know. Perhaps we'll hear why.

 

[wutang112878]

Do you really feel qualified to take the other side of his decision making?  I know there are some very knowledgeable folks in this forum and I value their opinions.  However they are the opinions of a bunch of folks on a messageboard versus those of NFL professionals - professionals, I might add, who have a long track record of success in identifying talent.

Tavon Wilson taken rounds early, and Chad Jackson and Maroney who were taken against scouts advice. Every once and a while even Bill needs some skepticism to make sure he isn't going off the reservation

 

[( . ) ( . ) and (_!_)]

Which is reasonable. Belichick could go 0 for 2014's draft and still have a 13-3 team next year. The 2nd round pick certainly was defensible but my preference was somebody who could contribute, or at least have a reasonable chance of contributing next year. In 2015, Revis may be gone, Brady may start his decline, etc. With Wilfork's injury status, I would have gone Nix.

I get what you are saying but Nix is an odd guy to mention since many teams passed on him three times. Something wasn't right there with him.

But this brings me to a bigger point. Quite simply we as fans over value the draft. Most of our 'binkies' are not going to amount to squat. It's the way it is. But that's easy to understand

Now what I find more interesting is that it feels at times that the pats value the draft less then most other teams. This was supposed to be the deepest draft in decades and the pats make two picks in the first three rounds, one of which is not likely to see the field. Teams will obviously disagree but doesn't every year has a "Belichick just doesn't like this years crop" feel to it?

Is that right or wrong i don't know. I guess the results speak for themselves but damn it feels likes missed opportunities.

 

[bradmahn]

Oh fer...
 
I, personally, am soliciting a dissenting opinion. But said opinion for which I am searching is for an evaluation of the actual player taken, and not a discussion of whether or not Belichick is smart.
 
I feel the same way about arguments as to why he would be good in the Patriots system.
 
is there any chance of discussing the player and the team and not just the choice?

 
 

He just seems to check off a lot of boxes on what BB looks for:
 
--high football IQ
--mobile in pocket (a valuable trait Brady has as well) without losing his receivers
--quick decision maker
--team leader, and started all 4 years (durable)
--hard worker
 
Of course there are weaknesses, but he seems to be the type of guy that BB likes. I'm 99% sure he'll say something like "He's just a good football player" when he talks about him.

 
He seems a good fit for an offense that likes to make quick reads in the short to intermediate passing game with an abundance of play action.

 

[Dogman]

Well, everyone forgot about Easley's knees all of a sudden.

All part of the Belichikian master plan...

 
Everyone forgot about Revis and Browner too