Rays announcing new St. Pete stadium

Humphrey

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Doesn't the Miami attendance figures this year, with a pretty decent young club; show that a boost in attendance in Tampa/St. Pete is far from guaranteed?

At least the architect will have strict orders to eliminate catwalks from the design.
 

Deweys New Stance

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So, if I read that correctly, they're going to build it in the current neighborhood (Gas Plant District)? Haven't we been told for years that the problem isn't just the ugly concrete dome but the location? I thought the traffic getting there was the big issue?
 

8slim

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I suspect this will never happen.

If it does, it's dumb. People don't go to games (1) because it's Florida, and (2) because St. Pete specifically is an awful spot for a baseball stadium.

They're going to have a shiny, new billion dollar, half-empty park. Congrats, idiots.
 

Sad Sam Jones

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Sounds like it would make more sense to just powerwash Tropicana and put some new air fresheners in the restrooms.
 

RS2004foreever

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Tampa cannot afford a stadium. RJS was built with a .75 sales tax and Tampa also supports the Forum. I don't think people get that the population is very spread out.
The right place to build the stadium is next to where the Howard Franklin crosses the bay on the Pinellas side. I live in Tampa part-time and have owned partial-season tickets there for years. The drive is nuts and effects attendance.
Why don't the Rays move? In part because it is a decent size and growing market and their TV ratings are actually pretty good.

There actually is nothing wrong with the Trop - a ball hits the roof like 5 times a year.
 

luckiestman

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The traffic is surprisingly bad. I don’t agree that “there is nothing wrong with the trop”. It’s the worst park I’ve been to by far.
 

Ale Xander

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Parking is very good there (helps with having a high percentage of old fans who can’t walk far, young local people who don’t drive, and low total number of attendance). I fear this commercial development will hipsterfy the area and make parking for games harder because hipsters will want their nightly IPA.
 

Zososoxfan

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So, if I read that correctly, they're going to build it in the current neighborhood (Gas Plant District)? Haven't we been told for years that the problem isn't just the ugly concrete dome but the location? I thought the traffic getting there was the big issue?
Yeah, that was all smokescreen for the fact that the real issue is that Sternberg still subscribes to the philosophy that one of the primary ways to derive value from the club as an asset is to get public financing for the stadium.

I'm beating a dead horse, but Stu got offered the ideal ballpark in the ideal location (water views in Channelside/Ybor) by a consortium of business folks but wanted a stupid expensive stadium built almost entirely on public dollars. Once he made that last part clear, everyone threw up their hands and moved on to better uses of their time.

Tampa cannot afford a stadium. RJS was built with a .75 sales tax and Tampa also supports the Forum. I don't think people get that the population is very spread out.
The right place to build the stadium is next to where the Howard Franklin crosses the bay on the Pinellas side. I live in Tampa part-time and have owned partial-season tickets there for years. The drive is nuts and effects attendance.
Why don't the Rays move? In part because it is a decent size and growing market and their TV ratings are actually pretty good.

There actually is nothing wrong with the Trop - a ball hits the roof like 5 times a year.
Yeah, hard disagree on nothing wrong with the Trop, and your location for a stadium. That area is fine, but Tampa's urban core is booming right now and getting a ballpark closer to that area should be the primary goal in a vaccuum.

In sum, I doubt this story looks the same once it's been vetted for a minute. This is bare bones initial reporting so far.
 

8slim

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My father has lived in Lakeland for a dozen years, is a massive baseball fan, and I think has been to 2 Rays games. I get the sense that no one east of St. Pete has the slightest desire to drive there for a 7pm game. It's traffic suicide. That eliminates a huge chunk of the market's population,
 

strek1

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I suspect this will never happen.

If it does, it's dumb. People don't go to games (1) because it's Florida, and (2) because St. Pete specifically is an awful spot for a baseball stadium.

They're going to have a shiny, new billion dollar, half-empty park. Congrats, idiots.
Who cares? As long as it's decent to play in. Unlike that disaster of a park they have now.
 

jayhoz

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Tampa cannot afford a stadium. RJS was built with a .75 sales tax and Tampa also supports the Forum. I don't think people get that the population is very spread out.
The right place to build the stadium is next to where the Howard Franklin crosses the bay on the Pinellas side. I live in Tampa part-time and have owned partial-season tickets there for years. The drive is nuts and effects attendance.
Why don't the Rays move? In part because it is a decent size and growing market and their TV ratings are actually pretty good.

There actually is nothing wrong with the Trop - a ball hits the roof like 5 times a year.
Tropicana field is nothing short of an embarrassment to the sport and should be sent to the depths of hell Carrie style as soon as humanly possible. The catwalks are an utter joke and, as stated, the stadium is completely soulless. The real problem however, is that you can't see a baseball hit in the air due to the brilliant strategy of making the roof a lovely shade of baseball.
 

Auger34

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I live in Tampa and The Trop is an embarrassment to sports.

IMO, they should have really pushed hard to move to Ybor. There would be close proximity to the Lightning and there's a lot of money flowing into Downtown and Channelside now (which are both really close to Ybor)
 

SemperFidelisSox

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The deal also includes affordable housing units, office and retail space, hotel rooms, entertainment venue and museum. I guess the idea is to turn the Gas Plant District into what Kraft did with the area around Gillette, which is also in a terrible location.
 

shaggydog2000

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Who on earth wants to visit something called the Gas Plant District? That's like naming a place Chemical Storage Heights.
 

luckiestman

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I live in Tampa and The Trop is an embarrassment to sports.

IMO, they should have really pushed hard to move to Ybor. There would be close proximity to the Lightning and there's a lot of money flowing into Downtown and Channelside now (which are both really close to Ybor)
Yes, the vibe going to see the Lightning is totally differently. My in laws are in central Florida so I end up going to see the locals. Magic is fun ( a little too loud in there), Bucs are a mediocre experience, Lightning is great, the Trop is awful but tickets are incredibly cheap.
 

shaggydog2000

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Meatpacking district is hot shit in NYC, you never know.
That's true. Although the meatpacking district sort of evokes the image of blue collar bars and cool lofts, while Gas Plant District sounds like a superfund site. But the Gas Works park in Seattle is pretty cool, and hopefully free of forever chemicals that might damage your DNA, so you never know.
 

8slim

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Who cares? As long as it's decent to play in. Unlike that disaster of a park they have now.
Honestly, I'd prefer MLB get the franchise out of that market if they're just going to build a new place in St. Pete.

There's lots of places that can actually support a team via good attendance. One of those place may be all of 10-15 miles east. St. Pete has had 25 years and can't do it.
 

No Pepper

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Who on earth wants to visit something called the Gas Plant District? That's like naming a place Chemical Storage Heights.
That's Historic Gas Plant District, Sir.

Also, if I'm in the Tampa Bay chamber of commerce, I'm calling google in the morning to get my Maps profile picture replaced.

71071
 

Ale Xander

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Honestly, I'd prefer MLB get the franchise out of that market if they're just going to build a new place in St. Pete.

There's lots of places that can actually support a team via good attendance. One of those place may be all of 10-15 miles east. St. Pete has had 25 years and can't do it.
Never understood why they don’t move to Orlando, for one.
Just upgrade the Disney site, or near the Sanford airport or many more options.
 

shaggydog2000

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It’s not like the much classier Gaslamp Quarter in San Diego.
It's amazing the difference one word makes. Beacon Hill has gas lamps and the real estate is some of the most expensive in the country. Exits on the Jersey turnpike have gas plants and people go an hour out of their way to go around them.

That's Historic Gas Plant District, Sir.

Also, if I'm in the Tampa Bay chamber of commerce, I'm calling google in the morning to get my Maps profile picture replaced.

View attachment 71071
Are those used hot tub parts? I love it.
 

j-man

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Tampa cannot afford a stadium. RJS was built with a .75 sales tax and Tampa also supports the Forum. I don't think people get that the population is very spread out.
The right place to build the stadium is next to where the Howard Franklin crosses the bay on the Pinellas side. I live in Tampa part-time and have owned partial-season tickets there for years. The drive is nuts and effects attendance.
Why don't the Rays move? In part because it is a decent size and growing market and their TV ratings are actually pretty good.

There actually is nothing wrong with the Trop - a ball hits the roof like 5 times a year.
on tv the trop looks depressing and soulless
 

Mantush

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I live in Orlando. I can only stomach going to one game a year because of how bad the traffic is. Building in the same area is beyond dumb. But hey, tax-payer funded stadium boosts the team value for whenever Sternberg decides to sell I guess.
 

InstaFace

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I suspect this will never happen.

If it does, it's dumb. People don't go to games (1) because it's Florida, and (2) because St. Pete specifically is an awful spot for a baseball stadium.

They're going to have a shiny, new billion dollar, half-empty park. Congrats, idiots.
I mean, aside from the pandemic season, the hockey team across the bay has sold out every single game for 7 years running.

In the Evan Longoria glory years the Rays got up above 1.8M attendance 3 years running (2008-2010), ~23k / game, not great but not in the MLB basement either. It was their 2014-2019 nadir, where the only thing keeping them from being bottom by a mile every year was when the Marlins bottomed out after 2017. Look, I don't know the area as well as you and others here do, but clearly it's not impossible to build a sizable following and have a decent crowd atmosphere there. Would it be better in Tampa proper? Sure. Is it the best city to put a team, if you look at all those lacking one? Probably not. But neither is it some sort of failure or boondoggle. The Rays aren't fated to be poorly-supported, they were just run by an owner who was happy to cynically collect revenue-sharing every year and sell tickets to away-team fans. Change the underlying dynamics and you probably change their support levels too.
 

koufax32

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My father has lived in Lakeland for a dozen years, is a massive baseball fan, and I think has been to 2 Rays games. I get the sense that no one east of St. Pete has the slightest desire to drive there for a 7pm game. It's traffic suicide. That eliminates a huge chunk of the market's population,
Yep. I’ve been in the Lakeland area for 4 years now and have attended exactly 0 games. Not worth the effort
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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I live in Tampa and The Trop is an embarrassment to sports.

IMO, they should have really pushed hard to move to Ybor. There would be close proximity to the Lightning and there's a lot of money flowing into Downtown and Channelside now (which are both really close to Ybor)
I stayed down on Water Street recently and I was actually incredibly impressed with the build out of that area.

FWIW my friends in the area think a St. Pete stadium might work, especially given their opinion that downtown is pretty happening.
 
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8slim

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I mean, aside from the pandemic season, the hockey team across the bay has sold out every single game for 7 years running.

In the Evan Longoria glory years the Rays got up above 1.8M attendance 3 years running (2008-2010), ~23k / game, not great but not in the MLB basement either. It was their 2014-2019 nadir, where the only thing keeping them from being bottom by a mile every year was when the Marlins bottomed out after 2017. Look, I don't know the area as well as you and others here do, but clearly it's not impossible to build a sizable following and have a decent crowd atmosphere there. Would it be better in Tampa proper? Sure. Is it the best city to put a team, if you look at all those lacking one? Probably not. But neither is it some sort of failure or boondoggle. The Rays aren't fated to be poorly-supported, they were just run by an owner who was happy to cynically collect revenue-sharing every year and sell tickets to away-team fans. Change the underlying dynamics and you probably change their support levels too.
It probably will be a boondoggle. Just read the responses of those in this thread who live in the area. It is a miserable experience to get to that area if you’re to the east. The Lightning do well because they’re in Tampa and the arena is exceedingly easier to get to.
 

genoasalami

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Since the Rays started the stadium push over a decade ago the Tampa Bay market has exploded. St Pete is no longer God's waiting room. Kids graduating college put the Tampa Bay area is on their short list of places they want to live and work. It has become a market that an owner would love to be in, even if the stadium location is not perfect.

Yes, downtown Tampa is the better location, but the money isn't there unless Stu wants to foot a bigger part of the bill. The St. Pete location isn't the best choice, but it isn't awful. There is a very vibrant city walking distance from the park. I live in Tampa, and the drive isn't much different than anyone coming into Boston from the suburbs to watch a Red Sox game. Plus, by the time the stadium is built, a new Howard Frankland Bridge over the Bay will be finished. What is going to make this work is the fact that instead of a soulless stadium in the middle of a parking lot, the stadium is going to become a destination, similar to the Braves development in Cobb County.
 

MuzzyField

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Since the Rays started the stadium push over a decade ago the Tampa Bay market has exploded. St Pete is no longer God's waiting room. Kids graduating college put the Tampa Bay area is on their short list of places they want to live and work. It has become a market that an owner would love to be in, even if the stadium location is not perfect.

Yes, downtown Tampa is the better location, but the money isn't there unless Stu wants to foot a bigger part of the bill. The St. Pete location isn't the best choice, but it isn't awful. There is a very vibrant city walking distance from the park. I live in Tampa, and the drive isn't much different than anyone coming into Boston from the suburbs to watch a Red Sox game. Plus, by the time the stadium is built, a new Howard Frankland Bridge over the Bay will be finished. What is going to make this work is the fact that instead of a soulless stadium in the middle of a parking lot, the stadium is going to become a destination, similar to the Braves development in Cobb County.
The Central district is a fun urban core, keeps getting better, and the west side of the Bay is booming. Nice assessment of future projections. Manatee and Sarasota counties have exploded from the south too and are an easy drive over the Skyway.

And Ale, Orlando sucks.
 

Ale Xander

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The Central district is a fun urban core, keeps getting better, and the west side of the Bay is booming. Nice assessment of future projections. Manatee and Sarasota counties have exploded from the south too and are an easy drive over the Skyway.

And Ale, Orlando sucks.
I love Sarasota county LOVE
Wish they could move a team there but they can’t
Orland can get get the Lakeland people and the Daytona and Even Jacksonville and St Augie people and also still get Tampa
(Sorry St Pete and the other beach communities)
 

MuzzyField

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I love Sarasota county LOVE
Wish they could move a team there but they can’t
Orland can get get the Lakeland people and the Daytona and Even Jacksonville and St Augie people and also still get Tampa
(Sorry St Pete and the other beach communities)
As a JAX person, nobody up here is looking to go to or through Orlando, ever. We find a reason to go to Gainesville or 301 it to Ocala and hit I-75 to get to Tampa/St. Pete. The St Augustine folks of through Palatka and hit 301.

Another part of the Sunshine state sports discussion.

The Jags are fucked if they go for the full demo and play in Orlando, Daytona, or Gainesville for two years. They timed their not suck window poorly, two years of Trevor prime played on the road should be a non-starter as far as public funding goes. I'm on team Fuck Shad in these negotiations. He has a decade of bailing on profitable deals he deemed unworthy as an NFL owner.

They already are giving London a Trevor home game a year.
 

RS2004foreever

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Yes, the vibe going to see the Lightning is totally differently. My in laws are in central Florida so I end up going to see the locals. Magic is fun ( a little too loud in there), Bucs are a mediocre experience, Lightning is great, the Trop is awful but tickets are incredibly cheap.
That's because no one goes to the games. The Trop is fine when people are actually there. For one thing the seats are more comfortable than Fenway. When they tear it down the new park will have double the ticket prices and real baseball fans will find they can't afford to go.

The goal of the Rays owner is to use public money to build a stadium and then have corporations buy season tickets and expense those so they get a tax write off. Real fans will get shut out.

My place is in South Tampa and the drive to the Trop really isn't that bad. It is easier to go there than it is for me to get to Fenway (I live about 20 miles outside of Boston on 93). The entire area on both sides of the bay is exploding - and getting richer. No sane owner would leave TPA.

I have a partial season ticket to the Lightning - the Lightning are expensive as hell. But the forum is great after the redesign and the atmosphere in downtown is great too.

RJS is better than Gillette (it actually has enough bathrooms) and you can go there and not get caught in an hour traffic jam.
 

genoasalami

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Rays average attendance this year is around 17,800. The new ballpark will seat around 30,000. The growth here on both sides of the Bay is incredible, so when they finish the new park in 5 years they will have even more money and fans in the market. With a destination ballpark built and all that comes with it, (think Braves in Cobb County) the attendance should settle in the low to mid 20k range which is fine. The location will still hurt them some in the long run, but a team belongs here. The market has become too big and too important not to have a team.
 

Zososoxfan

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Yep. I’ve been in the Lakeland area for 4 years now and have attended exactly 0 games. Not worth the effort
No offense intended, but I don't think Lakeland figures into the discussion of a DTSP stadium, and for a Tampa stadium it's a secondary consideration. The population that gets activated by a downtown Tampa stadium is located in Tampa city limits, Carrollwood, Brandon/Riverview, Town N' Country, Westchase, and to a lesser extent south county and the Pasco suburbs. I don't think Plant City is even in the conversation much.

The Central district is a fun urban core, keeps getting better, and the west side of the Bay is booming. Nice assessment of future projections. Manatee and Sarasota counties have exploded from the south too and are an easy drive over the Skyway.

And Ale, Orlando sucks.
DTSP is definitely poppin', and in some ways I like it even more than downtown Tampa. That said, DTSP is a really different vibe (think hipsters) and I don't think that population cares too much about losing the Rays, whereas Tampa is obsessed with its teams.

That's because no one goes to the games. The Trop is fine when people are actually there. For one thing the seats are more comfortable than Fenway. When they tear it down the new park will have double the ticket prices and real baseball fans will find they can't afford to go.

The goal of the Rays owner is to use public money to build a stadium and then have corporations buy season tickets and expense those so they get a tax write off. Real fans will get shut out.

My place is in South Tampa and the drive to the Trop really isn't that bad. It is easier to go there than it is for me to get to Fenway (I live about 20 miles outside of Boston on 93). The entire area on both sides of the bay is exploding - and getting richer. No sane owner would leave TPA.

I have a partial season ticket to the Lightning - the Lightning are expensive as hell. But the forum is great after the redesign and the atmosphere in downtown is great too.

RJS is better than Gillette (it actually has enough bathrooms) and you can go there and not get caught in an hour traffic jam.
The Trop is not fine, even when people are in the stands. I went to a game with the wife and 2 young kids last month, and while the concessions are better, and the services are better than they used to be, it's still a very sterile environment with far too much concrete and brick and not nearly enough natural light. It's also an acoustic nightmare (TBF so is Marlins Park). It's a AAA-quality stadium with a capacity for a MLB club.
 

Auger34

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Since the Rays started the stadium push over a decade ago the Tampa Bay market has exploded. St Pete is no longer God's waiting room. Kids graduating college put the Tampa Bay area is on their short list of places they want to live and work. It has become a market that an owner would love to be in, even if the stadium location is not perfect.

Yes, downtown Tampa is the better location, but the money isn't there unless Stu wants to foot a bigger part of the bill. The St. Pete location isn't the best choice, but it isn't awful. There is a very vibrant city walking distance from the park. I live in Tampa, and the drive isn't much different than anyone coming into Boston from the suburbs to watch a Red Sox game. Plus, by the time the stadium is built, a new Howard Frankland Bridge over the Bay will be finished. What is going to make this work is the fact that instead of a soulless stadium in the middle of a parking lot, the stadium is going to become a destination, similar to the Braves development in Cobb County.
Your entire post is right on. The bolded is my biggest issue with all of this. Sternberg is a shit owner. I can't believe that he convinced St. Pete to foot 650 million dollars for this entire thing when 80-90% of this cost should be coming out of his pocket (especially with what @InstaFace brought up, he's been collecting checks from other teams for years)

It's a shame because Vinik is a fantastic owner and what he has done with the Lightning and Water Street/Channelside is incredible