R-Dub: Time Lord, Tantalizing Sleeper, or Just a Late Flier?

wade boggs chicken dinner

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How were the blocks? Man to man? Weak side help? From behind?
First block - he was switched out on a wing, Glenn Robinson III I think. GR3 trued to shoot over him and RWill got a piece. He blocks more jump shots than anyone I can remember.

His most impressive play on offense was getting a pass on the baseline and immediately making a bounce pass to Yabu driving down the lane. There was some traffic so it wasn't obvious or easy. He's going to be great in a Caprla role if he can stay healthy.
 

luckiestman

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First block - he was switched out on a wing, Glenn Robinson III I think. GR3 trued to shoot over him and RWill got a piece. He blocks more jump shots than anyone I can remember.

His most impressive play on offense was getting a pass on the baseline and immediately making a bounce pass to Yabu driving down the lane. There was some traffic so it wasn't obvious or easy. He's going to be great in a Caprla role if he can stay healthy.[/QUOTE ]


I was shocked he made that pass. The blocks were awesome but that pass was unexpected.
 

Koufax

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I think that was a goaltend, really, but he got away with it. On another block he swatted it to a teammate. That's what I call a successful block, none of this OOB stuff that gives the ball back to the opponent.
 

HowBoutDemSox

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I think that was a goaltend, really, but he got away with it. On another block he swatted it to a teammate. That's what I call a successful block, none of this OOB stuff that gives the ball back to the opponent.
Wasn’t Bill Russell known for those blocks, where the ball stayed in bounds and went to a teammate? Not to invite the comparison - not really fair to compare anyone to Bill Russell, of course - but a good skill to have.
 

Eddie Jurak

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How were the blocks? Man to man? Weak side help? From behind?
I think that was a goaltend, really, but he got away with it. On another block he swatted it to a teammate. That's what I call a successful block, none of this OOB stuff that gives the ball back to the opponent.
Disagree that it was a goaltend - the ball looked to still be rising when he made contact.

Anyway, his 3 blocks were all different:
1. He's guarding GR III, who gets him off his feet but RW III is able to avoid contact, stay on him, and get a piece of the shot.
2. Goes up late to block a floater (this is the video posted above).
3. The more "typical" kind of block where RW III challenged a shot in the paint.

People have already mentioned hid nice feed to Yabu; he also had 3 rebounds in his 7 minutes including a sick offensive rebound.

All garbage minutes, of course, but it was a promising stint for him.
 

bsj

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Not a goaltend in today's NBA. Wasnt still going up, but hadnt started coming down ether. C's were victimized by the same non call a couple nights ago
 

HomeRunBaker

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Not a goaltend in today's NBA. Wasnt still going up, but hadnt started coming down ether. C's were victimized by the same non call a couple nights ago
Yeah, that block was never a goaltend per any rules the NBA has ever had regarding goaltending. Hopefully Williams learns defensive rotations sooner rather than later so he isn't buried on the bench like Jordan Bell. He can be a big contributor with his skillset if he can get on the floor.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Bell played 809 minutes as a rookie. I'll take the under for RW III.
Oh no doubt unless there are several injuries that knock Horford, Baynes, and/or Theis out for significant time. I was referring to a longer term outlook based on Bell's inability to be on the floor this season despite the team having a need for his skillset. Bell is squandering a great opportunity and it is solely on his shoulders due to his cerebral flaws which were apparent last season. Last year he lost minutes to Looney and this year Damian Jones took all of his minutes as he's now only a garbage time/injury depth insurance player for the Warriors. I'm obviously hopeful that when Williams does have these same opportunities he picks up the schemes much better than Bell has in Oakland.
 

benhogan

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Williams has electric hops, if you squint real hard you can see a Capella clone in the making (over the next few years).

Really like how Kerr/Warriors use Jones, Looney, and Bell (making him re-earn his minutes). Physical presence, setting picks, rolling to the hoop, creating screens, rebounds in traffic, tip outs, backside defensive help at the hoop, and last option on offense. Starting that lunch pail player at the 5 and playing them 15-20mins/night works (as it has in the past with McGee, ZaZa, Bogut, etc)

I think we will eventually see the Celtics use Baynes, Theis and Williams (next year) the same way (w/ Horford in the Draymond Green role).
 

TripleOT

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Hopefully, Williams can get 10 garbage minutes 50 times this season.

He's got great defensive instincts. I'm guessing he does a fair amount of shotblocking, in practice against the vets. Looked very confident at the defensive end, despite barely playing this season.
 

slamminsammya

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This is an overreaction, but I think there has to be some bayesian justification for saying that his 3 blocks last night imply he is the next Clint Capela.

I am pretty sure just using the word "bayesian" is justification enough for most.
 

lovegtm

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This is an overreaction, but I think there has to be some bayesian justification for saying that his 3 blocks last night imply he is the next Clint Capela.

I am pretty sure just using the word "bayesian" is justification enough for most.
I think we can all agree, bayesianly, that it does not make him less likely to become the next Clint Capela.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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This is an overreaction, but I think there has to be some bayesian justification for saying that his 3 blocks last night imply he is the next Clint Capela.

I am pretty sure just using the word "bayesian" is justification enough for most.
I think it’s a Baynesian reaction -i.e., everyone thrives when they get coached up by Brad.
 

nighthob

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This is an overreaction, but I think there has to be some bayesian justification for saying that his 3 blocks last night imply he is the next Clint Capela.

I am pretty sure just using the word "bayesian" is justification enough for most.
The reason is that Williams has been surprisingly quick to flash some advanced skills in his short time here.

I was as down on him as anyone over the summer, but despite his tendency to overblock he’s shown a remarkable amount of defensive awareness for someone that turned 21 a week and a half ago.

So, yes, there are reasons to hope that a long, explosive C has the upside of a player chosen 25th with similar length and athleticism (and who’s clearly become the guy that Nerlens Noel was supposed to be).
 

slamminsammya

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The overblocking thing is concerning. With that kind of athleticism he might fool himself into thinking he can get away with bad positioning. Thats where its great to have guys like Horford and Baynes to show him the way of the Jedi.
 

benhogan

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The reason is that Williams has been surprisingly quick to flash some advanced skills in his short time here.

I was as down on him as anyone over the summer, but despite his tendency to overblock he’s shown a remarkable amount of defensive awareness for someone that turned 21 a week and a half ago.

So, yes, there are reasons to hope that a long, explosive C has the upside of a player chosen 25th with similar length and athleticism (and who’s clearly become the guy that Nerlens Noel was supposed to be).
He was 2-time Defensive POY in a competitive SEC. Maybe it's not that far fetched to expect his skills to transfer

Nice article about R-Dub prior to the Draft:

https://www.theringer.com/2018/3/22/17149150/robert-williams-texas-am-sweet-16
 

HomeRunBaker

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He was 2-time Defensive POY in a competitive SEC. Maybe it's not that far fetched to expect his skills to transfer

Nice article about R-Dub prior to the Draft:

https://www.theringer.com/2018/3/22/17149150/robert-williams-texas-am-sweet-16
Jordan Bell was the PAC-12 Defensive Player of the Year as well along with being Oregon's All-Time leader in Blocked Shots. College Awards are nice and all but playing a game under different rules doesn't tell you how quickly a player can pick up NBA defensive schemes. Once R-Will gets an extended opportunity once some injuries occur we'll all be able to evaluate him properly.
 

lovegtm

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Some of the passing instincts he's shown are shockingly good for a big, and make me more optimistic about his anticipation and BBIQ.
 

Jimbodandy

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Jordan Bell was the PAC-12 Defensive Player of the Year as well along with being Oregon's All-Time leader in Blocked Shots. College Awards are nice and all but playing a game under different rules doesn't tell you how quickly a player can pick up NBA defensive schemes. Once R-Will gets an extended opportunity once some injuries occur we'll all be able to evaluate him properly.
Not for nothing, but there's a reason why Ainge passed on Bell. It's not because he didn't know that the kid had skills and athleticism. It could be because he had an oversized opinion on what Ojeleye is or will become, but it could very well be that he just didn't like Bell. And he grabbed Williams ten spots higher this year. Jury is still out of course.
 

nighthob

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He was 2-time Defensive POY in a competitive SEC. Maybe it's not that far fetched to expect his skills to transfer
NBA defense is whole ‘nother beast compared to the NCAA. We might be spoiled by Marcus & the Tatumator and their rapid grasping of NBA efensive positioning, but Jaylen Brown (who looked lost for most of his rookie season) is more the rule for college players. The fact that Williams is showing this awareness from day one is very encouraging.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Not for nothing, but there's a reason why Ainge passed on Bell. It's not because he didn't know that the kid had skills and athleticism. It could be because he had an oversized opinion on what Ojeleye is or will become, but it could very well be that he just didn't like Bell. And he grabbed Williams ten spots higher this year. Jury is still out of course.
Or he liked Bell but found the prospect of drafting someone 240 who could guard guards and shoot 40% from the collegiate 3P line to be enticing.
 

nighthob

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The overblocking thing is concerning.
By overblocking I mean his tendency, a la the young Tyson Chandler, to block everything into the third row.

The block on Little Dog is a great example of this, had he softly deflected it Wanamaker would have recovered the ball. But he’ll grow out of that, and as you noted having Horford and Baynes to mentor him will pay real dividends for Boston and one reason that I’m hopeful that Williams will hit that upside as a poor man’s Clint Capela.
 

Jimbodandy

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Or he liked Bell but found the prospect of drafting someone 240 who could guard guards and shoot 40% from the collegiate 3P line to be enticing.
Yeah could be. But leaving aside the lack of shooting on Ojeleye's part so far, a half-decent 3 & D player isn't as valuable as the guy many people here and elsewhere think that Bell will turn into. So I guess what I'm saying is, obviously Ainge is not on that wagon.

edit: And by contrast, he did take Williams and even higher.
 

chilidawg

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Yeah could be. But leaving aside the lack of shooting on Ojeleye's part so far, a half-decent 3 & D player isn't as valuable as the guy many people here and elsewhere think that Bell will turn into. So I guess what I'm saying is, obviously Ainge is not on that wagon.

edit: And by contrast, he did take Williams and even higher.
Or Ainge just thought Ojeleye was a better prospect. Hard to come up with any conclusions about what Ainge thinks based on one pick.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Not for nothing, but there's a reason why Ainge passed on Bell. It's not because he didn't know that the kid had skills and athleticism. It could be because he had an oversized opinion on what Ojeleye is or will become, but it could very well be that he just didn't like Bell. And he grabbed Williams ten spots higher this year. Jury is still out of course.
It wasn't only Ainge who passed on Bell.....he went 38th overall. The red flags were there.
 

lovegtm

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By overblocking I mean his tendency, a la the young Tyson Chandler, to block everything into the third row.

The block on Little Dog is a great example of this, had he softly deflected it Wanamaker would have recovered the ball. But he’ll grow out of that, and as you noted having Horford and Baynes to mentor him will pay real dividends for Boston and one reason that I’m hopeful that Williams will hit that upside as a poor man’s Clint Capela.
If he hits his upside, he's better than Capela. Odds on that are very low, of course.
 

amarshal2

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Do we think he could grow into the type of player who could guard Giannis effectively or is the freak too quick?
 

lovegtm

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Do we think he could grow into the type of player who could guard Giannis effectively or is the freak too quick?
He probably could, simply because Giannis's lack of a jumper lets Williams give a decent cushion, and his size/quickness/length take away the usual advantage Giannis has with a head of steam near the rim. He'd need to improve a lot to stay on the floor on the offensive side, but 76 games gives a lot of time for improvement, and it's not like Semi was lighting it up on O last year.
 

HomeRunBaker

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He probably could, simply because Giannis's lack of a jumper lets Williams give a decent cushion, and his size/quickness/length take away the usual advantage Giannis has with a head of steam near the rim. He'd need to improve a lot to stay on the floor on the offensive side, but 76 games gives a lot of time for improvement, and it's not like Semi was lighting it up on O last year.
Better for another thread but this is Giannis' 6th season......you'd think at some point you would put in the work and/or add a reliable 3-point shot to your repertoire by now. 1-16 to start the season out there. He should have left exit interviews each of the last couple years saying to himself, "Giannis, you have one job this summer!"
 

lovegtm

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Better for another thread but this is Giannis' 6th season......you'd think at some point you would put in the work and/or add a reliable 3-point shot to your repertoire by now. 1-16 to start the season out there. He should have left exit interviews each of the last couple years saying to himself, "Giannis, you have one job this summer!"
I'd be down for a thread on no-doubt stars who also have crippling flaws that only the playoffs and certain teams can expose, and that can, in some cases, drastically reduce their value from its regular season levels. Giannis and Simmons' jumpers, Jokic's inability to switch, etc.
 

Imbricus

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Williams went 5 for 5 last night with the Red Claws with 10 rebounds and 3 blocked shots (no one else had more than a single blocked shot -- hey, it's the G league). Not a bad start.
 

bosox79

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Bigs always dominate the G league so it's hard to read anything into that.
 

Eagle3

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Does anybody know if that 5 for 5 included anything other than dunks? I actually streamed part of the second half but I didn't see a lot of him because he was on a minutes restriction (presumably to keep him fresh in case they use him tonight). The only 2 shots I saw were dunks. He rebounded well and also altered a couple of shots on D. Overall he looked good in the short time I watched, but he did get burned for a layup after falling for a pump fake in the last minute or so when the game was up for grabs. I can live with the aggressive mistakes as long as he's not biting on those fakes every time.
 

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I caught some of the game and he looked real good, although as bosox mentions, bigs dominate this league. Remember the eye-popping blocks, bounds and scoring numbers Fab Melo put up in Maine, which didn't translate to the NBA? Nonetheless, you can see that Williams has some serious talent. Big time athleticism, hops, and shot blocking to go with aggressive rebounding and offensive dunks. On top of that, I've seen enough of him in the past to know he has a decent looking mid-range shot - last night, one of his buckets was a nice jumper in the lane. After a bumpy start as a Celt, it looks like he's behaving, probably in part because vets like Horford and Baynes have talked to him. Because other than questionable attitude, he looks like a top ten lottery talent. And I'm also wondering about his potential down the line to guard big-time scorers like Giannis and Durant, even if it's for a short time to get in their heads.
 

lovegtm

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The pass he does at 1:40 is really, really impressive. He waits until he sees the cutter draw the guy who would be helping the helper on the weak side, and then fires a bullet to the opposite corner for a 3. This is not your typical "big man dominates G league bums" stuff: his BBIQ is quite impressive.

I like early in the highlights that you can see him working on improving his screening and making better contact, even if he still whiffs sometimes.

I'm all-in on the Time Lord; there's a lot to dream on here, and no one can take away my dreams.
 

Imbricus

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Bigs always dominate the G league so it's hard to read anything into that.
Fair point, but he did have 3 blocks in 8 minutes against the Pistons. The guy can come flying out of nowhere and can seriously elevate fast. He still seems to be lazy at setting picks and sometimes seems disengaged from the flow of the game, but it's early.
 

lovegtm

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Fair point, but he did have 3 blocks in 8 minutes against the Pistons. The guy can come flying out of nowhere and can seriously elevate fast. He still seems to be lazy at setting picks and sometimes seems disengaged from the flow of the game, but it's early.
Setting picks is actually a quite tough skill: if you do it by the rules, you rarely make solid contact. You can sort of see him feeling things out and trying to figure out how to walk that line. Time with Horford and Baynes would/will help a lot there.
 

HomeRunBaker

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He still seems to be lazy at setting picks and sometimes seems disengaged from the flow of the game, but it's early.
Young players struggle in these areas......nearly all rookies do. It is probably more noticeable due to a lack of other elite talents that can mask these flaws. He needs experience, years of it, to truly develop as a reliable big. For now, Brad can pick some spots or be a guy for deep depth. He is a part of our deep bench and isn't ever going to miss a Celtics game to be up in Maine. Utilizing the schedule breaks to gain him 10-15 games in Maine over the court of the year is a nice perk of the G-League. The priority is still in Boston though.
 

bosox79

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Fair point, but he did have 3 blocks in 8 minutes against the Pistons. The guy can come flying out of nowhere and can seriously elevate fast. He still seems to be lazy at setting picks and sometimes seems disengaged from the flow of the game, but it's early.
Yeah, I didn't mean it as a knock on him. The G league just doesn't tell us anything about bigs. Yabu averaged 20.3 points, 7.9 rebounds, 2.7 assists, 1.2 steals and 1.7 blocks per game. Zizic went for 16.4 points, 9.4 boards, and 1.2 blocks.

I'd take RWill over both of them but we won't really know anything about him until he's playing NBA games.
 

Imbricus

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Did anyone else notice that, according to that highlight video, Williams actually went 6 for 6? Odd.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Yeah, I didn't mean it as a knock on him. The G league just doesn't tell us anything about bigs. Yabu averaged 20.3 points, 7.9 rebounds, 2.7 assists, 1.2 steals and 1.7 blocks per game. Zizic went for 16.4 points, 9.4 boards, and 1.2 blocks.

I'd take RWill over both of them but we won't really know anything about him until he's playing NBA games.
Let's not ever forget the infamous Fab Melo game when he put up a 15/16/14 triple double (the 14 was blocked shots!!). I think he has another 32 point game with 9 blocks too. The problem with G-League isn't the top level talent as every team has a couple decent players who could have a cup of coffee in the league.....it's that each teams 4-9 players are guys from your local pro-am summer league.
 
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