Pritchard Extended

The Mort Report

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i don't think any team is under the illusion that he can start though, are they? I can't think of a team that is 1) lacking a starting PG, and 2) is either trying to lose or trying to win, that would want him. Maybe if it is a straight salary dump?
Oh god I would imagine not, he's in his ideal position being the 7th-ish guy on a roster. However, I could see a rebuilding team in a big market(like the Nets) wanting to put out an at least somewhat entertaining product. His swagger on the floor alone would bring some juice, while not adding to winning since he's the starting PG. To a younger team he also brings that work ethic he has and the knowledge of what it takes to be a champ. Plus its not like the team would be taking on a huge contract

I'm also not trying to say they'd get anything of value for him, but they might not have to staple a 2nd to him to get a team to take him. It's also his only path for at least one "big" payday
 

ALiveH

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I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that Pritchard could start at PG for half the teams in the NBA. We're blessed to have him as a 20-25 mpg backup PG.
 

snowmanny

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Hmmm…picked at very random a middle-of-the pack team to look at their guards vs PP

IMG_9678.jpeg
 

benhogan

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I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that Pritchard could start at PG for half the teams in the NBA. We're blessed to have him as a 20-25 mpg backup PG.
A lot of teams would be better off starting PP over several players (PG/SG) that start in the NBA. His added strength helped him on both sides of the ball but the NBA is deep at PG. I made a list 18 months ago when there were suggestions that Fultz was a top 20 NBA PG (which he wasn't). The list still kind of stands (Maxey/White jumps withstanding)

Where would you slot PP?

There are a lot of really good guards in the league (hence the Jaylen Brown for Forward campaign)

Here is a rough PG list. Where do you slot him?
1. Luka
2. Curry
3. SGA
4. Lilliard
5. Morant
6. Fox
7. Holiday
8. Haliburton
9. Ky-ZuZu
10. Brunson
11. Harden
12. Ball
13. Trae Young
14. Garland
15. Murray
16. White
17. Smart
18. Brogdon
19. VanVleet
20. Maxey
21. Quickly
22. Poole
23. Chris Paul
24. D'Lo Russell
25. Kevin Porter Jr
26. Dinwiddie
27. Conley
28. Caruso
29. Westbrook
30. Tyus Jones
 

the moops

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I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that Pritchard could start at PG for half the teams in the NBA. We're blessed to have him as a 20-25 mpg backup PG.
Half the teams?

There are some teams playing young guys that Pritchard would be an upgrade over (looking at you Scoot) but PG is pretty damn deep. And once you get to like 15th ranked PG you are looking at the likes of Conley and VanVleet and Garland
 

HomeRunBaker

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I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that Pritchard could start at PG for half the teams in the NBA.
Wait what? I’m sure there are 3-4 lottery teams where he could compete for the starting job but certainly not 15 and even those 3-4 would be looking for a PG if Pritchard is their starter.
Hmmm…picked at very random a middle-of-the pack team to look at their guards vs PP

View attachment 88143
Context matters though. Pritchard, or any guard in this role, was set up perfectly for success with so much talent around him during the season. It is still hard for him to be on the floor during the playoffs in certain matchups like Dallas and Indiana when we had to pull him pretty quickly (Doncic and McConnell).
 

PedroKsBambino

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Yeah, I think PP could put up some superficially nice numbers for a bad team. But as HRB notes, they would be viewing it as a slot to upgrade before/as they became a legit playoff team.

His highest and best use is : 20/10 guy (well, probably more a 22/7 guy) on a lottery team who isn't really trying to win, or his current role. This is not some upside play for anyone who is at all contending---the defense will never be there, and the offensive creativity isn't there to make up for it. But he competes and he can really shoot, which matters in the right role/situation.
 
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Auger34

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A lot of teams would be better off starting PP over several players (PG/SG) that start in the NBA. His added strength helped him on both sides of the ball but the NBA is deep at PG. I made a list 18 months ago when there were suggestions that Fultz was a top 20 NBA PG (which he wasn't). The list still kind of stands (Maxey/White jumps withstanding)

Where would you slot PP?
I'd say he's about 28th on that list. I think he could start on a few teams in the NBA.

I think his best role would be going to a team that is rebuilding and needs a hard worker in the room to show the young guys how to be a professional.

As @PedroKsBambino notes, once a team is on the rise or trying to be a serious title contender, his role would essentially be the same as it is now
 

snowmanny

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Context matters though. Pritchard, or any guard in this role, was set up perfectly for success with so much talent around him during the season. It is still hard for him to be on the floor during the playoffs in certain matchups like Dallas and Indiana when we had to pull him pretty quickly (Doncic and McConnell).
Oh, absolutely. He benefits from how Coach Joe uses him and the talent around him. And the DARKO spike last year reflects all that. And if his playoff usage is seven seconds every other quarter that is not a huge help. But I could see some team without big playoff aspirations wanting him.
 

InstaFace

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Yeah, I think PP could put up some superficially nice numbers for a bad team. But as HRB notes, they would be viewing it as a slot to upgrade before/as they became a legit playoff team.

His highest and best use is : 20/10 guy (well, probably more a 22/7 guy) on a lottery team who isn't really trying to win, or his current role. This is not some upside play for anyone who is at all contending---the defense will never be there, and the offensive creativity isn't there to make up for it. But he competes and he can really shoot, which matters in the right role/situation.
I think that might be a little too far into the negative side for me. Because, locked into the salary he's locked into, he is tremendous value on that contract. Bringing him in for a "marginally starter-grade" role, at $7.5M / year for 4 more years, unlocks a TON of other payroll that you can use to upgrade other positions. If he's playable against NBA starters, which he very nearly is*, then it enables a lot of other team-building you might be able to do. You might still be planning to drop a lottery pick on a PG in a year or two's time, and let that guy get up to speed while you still have Pritch to run the offense, but he's got a lot of positive asset value that a rebuilding team can use in a couple of ways - not just a contender trying to save money on their bench.

* reasonable people can disagree about this, and I get it that he can still be wrecked by the Lukas of the league. But he's close enough that one team might see his trendline and think "this guy will have been obsessing over his defense and strength-and-conditioning all summer, if I buy him now, I'd be buying low." And it only takes one team to think that to trade some minor assets for his contract.
 

lovegtm

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We had a good run with Jrue and DWhite's health for the season+playoffs, but one injury to either of them, at any point, and the value of PP over "random min contract guard" might swing a playoff series. It's not as urgent as having someone good behind KP, but it's pretty important.

It's hard to replace that for less than $7.5M, unless you get pretty lucky.
 

the moops

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I'd say he's about 28th on that list. I think he could start on a few teams in the NBA.
I was skeptical, but going through projected starting lineups there are a few where Pritchard is at worst a sideways move
ATL - Trae
BRK - Schroeder
CHA - Lamelo
CHI- White
CLE - Garland
DAL - Luka
DEN - Murray
DET - Cade
GSW - Curry
HOU - VanVleet
IND - Hali
LAC - Harden
LAL - Russell
MEM - Ja
MIA - Rozier
MIL - Dame
MIN - Conley
NOP - Murray
NYK - Brunson
OKC - SGA
ORL - Suggs
PHI - Maxey
PHO - Jones
POR - Scoot

SAC - Fox
SAS - CP3
TOR - Quickley
UTA - George
WAS - Poole
 

Ale Xander

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We had a good run with Jrue and DWhite's health for the season+playoffs, but one injury to either of them, at any point, and the value of PP over "random min contract guard" might swing a playoff series. It's not as urgent as having someone good behind KP, but it's pretty important.

It's hard to replace that for less than $7.5M, unless you get pretty lucky.
I agree. I think Brown is the better candidate to be traded. Can't play PG and has a $49M cap hit. This is why I really hope Scheierman develops.

If you don't get anyone back:

1st unit
PG Jrue
SG White
SF Hauser
PF Tatum
C Porzingis

2nd unit
PG Pritchard
SG Walker/Springer/Walsh
SF Scheierman
PF/C Horford
C/PF Kornet/Tillman
 

benhogan

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I agree. I think Brown is the better candidate to be traded. Can't play PG and has a $49M cap hit. This is why I really hope Scheierman develops.

If you don't get anyone back:

1st unit
PG Jrue
SG White
SF Hauser
PF Tatum
C Porzingis

2nd unit
PG Pritchard
SG Walker/Springer/Walsh
SF Scheierman
PF/C Horford
C/PF Kornet/Tillman
I was addicted to Jaylen "Fake Trade" posts for years. I've kicked the habit ;)

I'm in the JAYs + White stay camp.

When they need to cut payroll to reset (next summer?), I expect KP/Jrue will be the casualties.

Hauser/PP will probably see more regular season minutes this year, as they play more prominent scoring roles.
Developing guys like Queta, Tillman, Luke, Springer, Baylor, & G-Leaguers is important. If one of them POPS into 20-25 mpg players the C's are in good shape long-term.
 

InstaFace

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I was skeptical, but going through projected starting lineups there are a few where Pritchard is at worst a sideways move
ATL - Trae
BRK - Schroeder
CHA - Lamelo
CHI- White
CLE - Garland
DAL - Luka
DEN - Murray
DET - Cade
GSW - Curry
HOU - VanVleet
IND - Hali
LAC - Harden
LAL - Russell
MEM - Ja
MIA - Rozier
MIL - Dame
MIN - Conley
NOP - Murray
NYK - Brunson
OKC - SGA
ORL - Suggs
PHI - Maxey
PHO - Jones
POR - Scoot

SAC - Fox
SAS - CP3
TOR - Quickley
UTA - George
WAS - Poole
Good list, I don't disagree with any of it (except that no coach is ever benching Chris Paul for Payton Pritchard, even if you can argue they should).

But beyond the ones you bolded, there's probably a few more in a "best ability is availability" category. Ja Morant, Lamelo, perhaps Dame or Fox... there are a few additional candidate teams where you might not be acquiring Pritchard to start as the #1 choice, but you have a reasonable likelihood to have to plan for big chunks of unavailability for the star, and want someone who you can feel confident in taking the starting reins for a while without the wheels coming off. So you'd be buying him as a pseudo-starter, even if you're not building your future around him. That's not true for the Celtics, where (to lovegtm's point) we have two starting guards who are as rock-solid to be healthy and on the floor as anyone in the league... but it's true for enough teams that they might value PP more than we do if a trade comes calling, because they have a bigger role they need him for.
 

Jimbodandy

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I was addicted to Jaylen "Fake Trade" posts for years. I've kicked the habit ;)

I'm in the JAYs + White stay camp.

When they need to cut payroll to reset (next summer?), I expect KP/Jrue will be the casualties.

Hauser/PP will probably see more regular season minutes this year, as they play more prominent scoring roles.
Developing guys like Queta, Tillman, Luke, Springer, Baylor, & G-Leaguers is important. If one of them POPS into 20-25 mpg players the C's are in good shape long-term.
Thank you. The fake JB trade posts have diminished so much that Ale's post stood out like a fart in church.

Whenever the "we need to slim the payroll" conversations happen, I'd expect KP, then Jrue to be the initial pieces absent some kind of godfather deal on someone else. And agreed that Brad's job over the next couple of years is to identify the backfills, and it's no easy job. Pritchard and Hauser are making the kind of money that there's a heck of a lot less benefit from moving off of them. It's great that you can, that you have optionality there, but the benefit isn't as great. I'm grateful that PBS didn't have to shoot the moon on either guy because that made them less likely to be long-term pieces, not because I care about Wyc/Pags' wallet.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I was skeptical, but going through projected starting lineups there are a few where Pritchard is at worst a sideways move
ATL - Trae
BRK - Schroeder
CHA - Lamelo
CHI- White
CLE - Garland
DAL - Luka
DEN - Murray
DET - Cade
GSW - Curry
HOU - VanVleet
IND - Hali
LAC - Harden
LAL - Russell
MEM - Ja
MIA - Rozier
MIL - Dame
MIN - Conley
NOP - Murray
NYK - Brunson
OKC - SGA
ORL - Suggs
PHI - Maxey
PHO - Jones
POR - Scoot

SAC - Fox
SAS - CP3
TOR - Quickley
UTA - George
WAS - Poole
Couple things. The Suns backcourt is Booker and Beal so one of them would be considered the starting PG. Keyonte George is really really good and coming off his age 20 season, PP isn’t in his league. They are probably interchangeable but I’d consider Brogdon the Wizards PG. He isn’t starting over Rozier either.

Spurs, who may end up starting Castle sooner rather than later, and Portland, if Scoot doesn’t make any leaps, would appear to be the two where he could sneak into the starting lineup this year albeit for a brief time until their young gun is ready.
 

lovegtm

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I agree. I think Brown is the better candidate to be traded. Can't play PG and has a $49M cap hit. This is why I really hope Scheierman develops.

If you don't get anyone back:

1st unit
PG Jrue
SG White
SF Hauser
PF Tatum
C Porzingis

2nd unit
PG Pritchard
SG Walker/Springer/Walsh
SF Scheierman
PF/C Horford
C/PF Kornet/Tillman
Jaylen got way too good to trade. You can't find All-NBA big wings, in their prime, for any amount of money. You have to have them, trade for them, or have them choose you in FA (PG to Philly).
 

ALiveH

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I said what I said and I expected to get crushed for it. Seems like there've been a lot of backup PGs who blossomed at relatively advanced age once they were given the keys. People probably said same stuff about Billups, Nash, Kyle Lowry or Dragic when they were backups, not that PP has to ever have a peak nearly as good as any of those guys to be a league average starting PG. A league average team isn't trying to figure out who's playable on D in the playoffs, they're playing their tails off just to sniff an early playoff exit.

My standard isn't that PP is clearly better than & has a brighter future than the current starting PG (though at his age and given consistent minutes he still has room to make leaps). My standard is he is comparably as good, so could make a case that he's at least a lateral move. In addition to the bolded guys on the list, I think he's as good or better than Schroder, whoever Lamelo's backup is when he gets injured again, Coby White, Garland (regressed this year), D'Angelo D'Russell, Quickley, plus whichever of the >35 year old guys who happen to fall off a cliff this year.
 

benhogan

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I said what I said and I expected to get crushed for it. Seems like there've been a lot of backup PGs who blossomed at relatively advanced age once they were given the keys. People probably said same stuff about Billups, Nash, Kyle Lowry or Dragic when they were backups, not that PP has to ever have a peak nearly as good as any of those guys to be a league average starting PG. A league average team isn't trying to figure out who's playable on D in the playoffs, they're playing their tails off just to sniff an early playoff exit.

My standard isn't that PP is clearly better than & has a brighter future than the current starting PG (though at his age and given consistent minutes he still has room to make leaps). My standard is he is comparably as good, so could make a case that he's at least a lateral move. In addition to the bolded guys on the list, I think he's as good or better than Schroder, whoever Lamelo's backup is when he gets injured again, Coby White, Garland (regressed this year), D'Angelo D'Russell, Quickley, plus whichever of the >35 year old guys who happen to fall off a cliff this year.
Besides the scoring & added bulk/strength, PP made a nice leap last season with his ball security (8.5% TOV, 5-1 Asst/TO ratio). I agree that he could start/help many NBA teams, although matching him up versus PGs in a vacuum makes that comment seem odd.

As @Euclis20 noted above, Payton made 5 starts (vs. Cho, Was, Pdx, Det 2x) last season and buried them. It was a showcase to the dregs. Those are the type of teams that should be chasing PP, but Detroit's busy trading for Hardaway Jr. & making dumb signings. The Wizards now have Brogdon & are trying to get Poole to live up to that bloated contract. Colby White had a breakout year for the Bulls. PDX has Scoot/Simon. A back-up gig for the Hornets while he waits for LaMelo to break down would probably be Payton's best opportunity at NBA stardom.

BUT the reality is at his price PP is a key element to the Celtics' long-term contention status. When they have to cut salaries, both PP & Hauser will eventually slide into more prominent rotational roles. I could see Sam starting & PP being a 6th man/bench oven when that day comes. Their peak seasons match up well with the JAYs/DW & their skillsets would allow Brad to sign dirt-cheap defense first/fungible 5s during that time frame.
 

the moops

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In addition to the bolded guys on the list, I think he's as good or better than Schroder, whoever Lamelo's backup is when he gets injured again, Coby White, Garland (regressed this year), D'Angelo D'Russell, Quickley, plus whichever of the >35 year old guys who happen to fall off a cliff this year.
I could maybe be convinced about Schroder, but no chance on the Garland, White, Quickley crew.