Price is right

DeadlySplitter

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good story here behind paywall, I'll quote a couple relevant parts https://theathletic.com/619436/2018/10/29/buckley-david-prices-transformation-into-boston-icon-complete-now/

That’s when Price, caught up in the moment, pulled the official “2018 World Series Champs” cap off his head, reared back, and fired it high into the air toward the crowd beyond the protective netting. As the mob fought for the cap, Price disappeared into the dugout.

“I don’t know why I did that,” he said later. “We have a lot of Red Sox fans here. And hopefully one of them got that hat and they can tell that story for the rest of their life.”

...

Turns out Price’s “2018 World Series Champions” cap did wind up in the hands of a Red Sox fan. And for those of you who are into symbols, feel free to look at that cap as a handshake that’ll forever bind Price with Red Sox fans from coast to coast and well beyond.

Price’s cap didn’t wind up with some cranky Sox fan who’d been booing the guy for three years, wondering if he’d ever win a postseason start. Instead, it went to someone who never wavered in his belief Price was going to pitch the Red Sox to a World Series championship.

We’re talking about Cole Flashner, 23, a Needham native whose family relocated to California when he was 13 because it had been decided that a milder climate might be more agreeable for his mother, who has multiple sclerosis.

“Catching this cap is one of the craziest experiences of my life,” he said. “I can’t believe we won the World Series and I’m just happy to be part of it.

“He’s coming off the field, and I’m just cheering for Price,” he said. “All of a sudden he just throws up his hat, it goes over the fence, it comes gliding down the netting. Some guy tries to swoop in and grab it, real quick. And I just got it. Insane.”

...

“I’m a very big fan of his work, and I’m really, really happy to see him in a Red Sox uniform,” he said. “And I’m a glass-is-half-filled kind of guy . . . I believed he would eventually prove himself in the postseason and he proved that this year. And he obviously has the potential to keep doing that.”
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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To me it's not just that he pitched well in these postseason games but it's also how he did it.

A guy took him deep on the first pitch of the game last night and for the first two innings and an out he looked like he was on fumes. He couldn't locate very well. He got a very well timed double play ball but even so he was going 3-2 to most batters and he had a 9-pitch at bat where we were a bit lucky Machado didn't hit a mistake. But he gutted it out. He looked like he was laboring. He wasn't locating.

But then something amazing happened. JD misplayed a fly ball. And it was like a jolt of lightening. To that point -- through 2.1 innings -- he had thrown 44 pitches and only 56.9 percent strikes. And then he simply bore down and picked up his teammate. He got out of that inning and he never looked back.

After the Freese triple, Price retired 14 in a row. To those 14 batters he threw a total of eight balls. Eight! And it's not like he could just pound the zone because he had a big lead. For most of the time he had a 1 or 2 run lead to work with.

Who knows what was going through his head, but he was two completely different pitchers before and after that misplay by JD. It's almost like he decided he was not going to let his teammate fail and a light switch went on.

David F-ing Price was nails.
 

HomeBrew1901

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Plus, even if Price is a prick, and I’m not saying he is at all, I think the dude has earned the right to tell people to go fuck themselves. He’s taken an endless amount of shit for having subpar performances in the postseason and now he’s shut those people up in back to back starts in a most impressive fashion. If I were him, I’d be telling all those people to blow me. He’s a fierce competitor who, by all accounts, is loved by his teammates. I’m glad to have him on the Red Sox.
He's still a prick. Everything he did this week doesn't change that, he still went after Eckersley and proved last night he's still just as thin skinned by his press conference and tweets.

Here's the thing though, I don't care if he's a prick or not, I don't have to like everyone on the Red Sox. I've held my nose and cheered for bigger A holes that have done far worse than being sensitive. He was a big part of the reason they won the World Series and I hope he comes back next year because his performance was almost legendary.
 

ledsox

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I love that he told his teammates that he was going to be the WS MVP.
This was the night before the opening day loss to TB (as told by him). The guy is a stud.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Yeah, it really is unbelievable. In fact, it was so unbelievable that after you guys responded I figured I better go back and double check because there's really no way it could be possible. And, naturally, I screwed it up. I'm sorry.

It was nine! ;0)
 

gedman211

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Yeah, it really is unbelievable. In fact, it was so unbelievable that after you guys responded I figured I better go back and double check because there's really no way it could be possible. And, naturally, I screwed it up. I'm sorry.

It was nine! ;0)
9 Balls?!!! Then I hope the prick opts out.
 

drbretto

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I feel like this postseason meant more to David Price than it did to anyone. He wanted to change that perception of him and he absolutely crushed it. I am so happy for this dude.

He's not going anywhere. I love that chip on his shoulder. He uses it the way New Englanders would want. He's a Red Sock 4 lyfe. I'm not sure what his HoF chances are (I'm not claiming he is or isn't here), he would end up going in with a Red Sox hat, I think.
 

OurF'ingCity

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He's still a prick. Everything he did this week doesn't change that, he still went after Eckersley and proved last night he's still just as thin skinned by his press conference and tweets.

Here's the thing though, I don't care if he's a prick or not, I don't have to like everyone on the Red Sox. I've held my nose and cheered for bigger A holes that have done far worse than being sensitive. He was a big part of the reason they won the World Series and I hope he comes back next year because his performance was almost legendary.
That's a good way of thinking about it. I mean, Pedro was a dick too for much of his Red Sox career until he softened a bit in his later years (I forget the details but I remember something from his autobiography where he said he refused to tip his cap to the Fenway fans after his starts because he got booed early on in his Sox career one time).
 

Al Zarilla

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To me it's not just that he pitched well in these postseason games but it's also how he did it.

A guy took him deep on the first pitch of the game last night and for the first two innings and an out he looked like he was on fumes. He couldn't locate very well. He got a very well timed double play ball but even so he was going 3-2 to most batters and he had a 9-pitch at bat where we were a bit lucky Machado didn't hit a mistake. But he gutted it out. He looked like he was laboring. He wasn't locating.

But then something amazing happened. JD misplayed a fly ball. And it was like a jolt of lightening. To that point -- through 2.1 innings -- he had thrown 44 pitches and only 56.9 percent strikes. And then he simply bore down and picked up his teammate. He got out of that inning and he never looked back.

After the Freese triple, Price retired 14 in a row. To those 14 batters he threw a total of eight balls. Eight! And it's not like he could just pound the zone because he had a big lead. For most of the time he had a 1 or 2 run lead to work with.

Who knows what was going through his head, but he was two completely different pitchers before and after that misplay by JD. It's almost like he decided he was not going to let his teammate fail and a light switch went on.

David F-ing Price was nails.
That’s a great post. Oh, it’s by DDB, who has a very high GPA (great post average).
 

troparra

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Yeah, it really is unbelievable. In fact, it was so unbelievable that after you guys responded I figured I better go back and double check because there's really no way it could be possible. And, naturally, I screwed it up. I'm sorry.

It was nine! ;0)
He turned into Greg Maddux.
 

Monbo Jumbo

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In my first trip to Fenway in 19 years, I saw his complete game in May from some pretty good seats.
I haven't doubted him since.

Thin-skinned?
I see that guy in the mirror every day.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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That’s a great post. Oh, it’s by DDB, who has a very high GPA (great post average).
Thanks Al. I get one right here and there -- blind squirrel and the nut and all that.

Isn't it completely messed up that we now have enough championships in recent history that in addition to just winning you can actually have winning and an amazing narrative? 2004 will never really be beat, but you know the Sox didn't just win but they get to do it with this amazing redemption story for David Price. It's like icing on the cake.

He teared up in the presser last night when asked about how it felt to have his teammates talk about what a great teammate he is. I think he takes that stuff seriously. I really believe that he felt it was his job to do whatever he could to pick JD up from his misplay.
 

LesterFan

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When he arrived in the dugout after the Red Sox’s third win of the series, Price high-fived Dustin Pedroia, the only non-rookie left from Boston’s 2013 championship team. Behind Pedroia stood Cora.

“Tomorrow’s you,” he told Price.

Price was surprised. Like everyone else, he assumed Sale was starting. It didn’t faze him. Immediately, Price went into preparation mode. He grabbed dinner, put on his headphones and ate in the office of Red Sox traveling secretary Jack McCormick. Back at the hotel, he hopped on his Xbox, opened Fortnite and teamed with Eovaldi for a few games of duos. This is their custom, with Eovaldi dropping into the war zone of Tilted Towers, Price preferring the safer terrain of Wailing Woods, both keen to forget baseball for a few hours at a time. Even after Game 3, following his herculean six-inning relief effort, Eovaldi said Price “wanted me to get on, but I was a little tired. So I got on that next morning, and we got a couple dubs.”
Unbeknownst to the Red Sox, the Yankees believed Price was tipping his changeup. Only it wasn’t visible to the hitter. The first-base coach could deduce when Price was throwing a changeup and would signal the hitter. With his cut fastball becoming a pitch he used less and less, taking the changeup out of the equation made hitters’ jobs even easier. The Yankees jumped him.

Houston also knew about Price’s tipping and did the same in Game 2 of the ALCS. Over the four days between then and Price’s Game 5 start, the Red Sox cracked the tell. They also eliminated his cutter almost entirely, making the changeup even more important. Price threw a career-high 39 changeups that night. The Astros swung and missed a dozen times after doing so once in Game 2.
https://sports.yahoo.com/inside-story-boston-red-sox-won-2018-world-series-134956118.html
 

MakeMineMoxie

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I was not thrilled when they signed him, he had too much of the Jo Maddon Tampa Stink still lingering. That said, once signed, I obviously wanted him to do well. It appears he has done that!

I hope he stays since the Sox have a chance to win again in 2019. That, and I want to see him go into Yankee Stadium and stomp on their testicles. That's the only hill he has left to conquer.
 

DeadlySplitter

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I feel like the analytics / technology is making tipping that much easier to do. Any slight difference in pitching delivery, I bet advance scouting is trying to correlate it to pitch types, and if it's a high correlation, you got tipping.

So when everyone says how is the team not catching this sooner / needing outside people like Gagne to catch it, I say, you gotta be perfect on mechanics or you might get exploited in today's game.
 

BroodsSexton

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I feel like the analytics / technology is making tipping that much easier to do. Any slight difference in pitching delivery, I bet advance scouting is trying to correlate it to pitch types, and if it's a high correlation, you got tipping.

So when everyone says how is the team not catching this sooner / needing outside people like Gagne to catch it, I say, you gotta be perfect on mechanics or you might get exploited in today's game.
Yeah but if other teams can do that analysis based on mechanics and pitch type, then we should be running that analysis on our pitchers too.
 

DeadlySplitter

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so another group split the vote, two for Pearce alone, one for Price alone.

it was extremely close, and hey Pearce maybe got a little contract bonus for it. onwards.
 

Byrdbrain

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What a dumb way to do voting, just give two guys from each organization or 10 guys from different organization votes. Why bother doing this if they can then just split their votes anyway.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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Who decided to give a vote to the Herald, did they draw out of a hat?

Either was fine with me. I’d prob have gone Price but Pearce benefits more. All good. But yes, dumb process.
 

ricopetro6

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^ that's crazy..The group that wanted co-MVPs and voting that way actually made Pearce win it 3-2.

rdit: and needing the vote in the 7th inning is just dumb, anything could still happen.
 

ricopetro6

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What a dumb way to do voting, just give two guys from each organization or 10 guys from different organization votes. Why bother doing this if they can then just split their votes anyway.
right, voting process obviously not thought through.
 

Byrdbrain

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Who decided to give a vote to the Herald, did they draw out of a hat?

Either was fine with me. I’d prob have gone Price but Pearce benefits more. All good. But yes, dumb process.
It wasn't given to the Herald, Silverman was voting on behalf of the BWAA. "J.P. Hoornstra of the Southern California News Group and I shared the Baseball Writers Association of America’s vote for World Series MVP. We were one of five members of the electorate. The others were FOX Sports, ESPN Radio, MLB Network World Feed and MLB.com."
 

Savin Hillbilly

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The wrong side of the bridge....
“I’m not going anywhere”- David Price

He’s staying

I'm fine with this, and was even before his postseason. Yes, the contract has been a mild overpay so far and will probably be a somewhat bigger one before it's over, but I think Price will make a great staff anchor for the next four years, helping smooth the transition when the Sox lose Sale and Porcello after next year, so they don't have to build a new rotation from scratch (which they'll be in a pretty poor position to do, with Shawaryn looking like the only prospect who might be ready to join the rotation by 2020). That's worth something, even if it isn't worth quite $30M.
 

In my lifetime

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I'd say so far the RS have received no less than fair value. 9.0 WAR and a WS MVP worthy performance for 93 MM. Of course, it is unlikely that the next 4 years of the contract turn out as well. Nevertheless the contract looks a lot better now than it looked a year ago.
 

dhappy42

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I'd say so far the RS have received no less than fair value. 9.0 WAR and a WS MVP worthy performance for 93 MM. Of course, it is unlikely that the next 4 years of the contract turn out as well. Nevertheless the contract looks a lot better now than it looked a year ago.
What is the dollar value of 1 WAR now? A few years ago it was about $9 mil. I assume it always goes up year-to-year. Can Price be an average 3 WAR pitcher over the next three years? If he stays relatively healthy, I think so. But even if he declines somewhat, he could still be a solid #4 starter and by 2021 good #4 starters could very well be earning close to $30 mil. At the time of his signing, I thought the Sox overpaid, (not my money so I didn’t much care,) but after Price’s MVP-worthy post-season performance, I now think the Red Sox got their money’s worth no matter what happens going forward.
 

TFisNEXT

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I'd say so far the RS have received no less than fair value. 9.0 WAR and a WS MVP worthy performance for 93 MM. Of course, it is unlikely that the next 4 years of the contract turn out as well. Nevertheless the contract looks a lot better now than it looked a year ago.
It's hard to put a value on Price's performance in the ALCS and WS. I'm sure many would pay well north of 30 million AAV to get it. IF he can just stay reasonably healthy the next few seasons, it will be hard for most fans and the FO to second guess the contract.
 

JimD

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I never thought he'd seriously consider opting out and leave that much cash on the table, but if there ever was a dude to shock the world and do it, it would be him.

I'm fine with this, and was even before his postseason. Yes, the contract has been a mild overpay so far and will probably be a somewhat bigger one before it's over, but I think Price will make a great staff anchor for the next four years, helping smooth the transition when the Sox lose Sale and Porcello after next year
I'm not convinced both are goners - I think there's a decent chance one will sign an extension or a new contract with the Sox.
 

BornToRun

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I'd say so far the RS have received no less than fair value. 9.0 WAR and a WS MVP worthy performance for 93 MM. Of course, it is unlikely that the next 4 years of the contract turn out as well. Nevertheless the contract looks a lot better now than it looked a year ago.
I’m completely satisfied with what we’ve gotten from David so far. Isn’t the whole point of these massive contracts to get your money’s worth in the first few years and then deal with the decline anyway? Furthermore, I think he’s the kind of pitcher that can adapt to diminishing velocity as he ages. He was firing 95-96 throughout the postseason but I know that we’ve seen him have success at around 91-92 as well. All in all, I’m happy that he’s sticking around.
 

nvalvo

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I’m completely satisfied with what we’ve gotten from David so far. Isn’t the whole point of these massive contracts to get your money’s worth in the first few years and then deal with the decline anyway? Furthermore, I think he’s the kind of pitcher that can adapt to diminishing velocity as he ages. He was firing 95-96 throughout the postseason but I know that we’ve seen him have success at around 91-92 as well. All in all, I’m happy that he’s sticking around.
This is the key issue for me. He's now made the transition from a young fireballer to a mature pitcher who can get outs in different ways, so he has a chance to age pretty gracefully. And he's shown that while he may not be a prototypical ace anymore, he can put up long stretches of ace performance. His strong second half really held this pitching staff together while other pitchers were dealing with injuries.

He'll likely need to get a surgery on that elbow at some point in the next four seasons, but then again maybe not.

Long story short, we're paying retail prices for these wins, but as long as he can stay on the mound, it's good to have him.
 

BaseballJones

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I'm not yet convinced that he can win throwing 91-92 consistently. One of the things that he was able to do this postseason was adjust his mechanics so that he was back to throwing 93-95. Those few extra mph make a difference.
 

Savin Hillbilly

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The wrong side of the bridge....
I’m completely satisfied with what we’ve gotten from David so far. Isn’t the whole point of these massive contracts to get your money’s worth in the first few years and then deal with the decline anyway?
Well, ideally you want to get a little more than your money's worth in the first few years so that the decline phase brings you back toward break-even, though most contracts, even the relatively good ones, wind up short of break-even in the end.

We've gotten a bit less than money's worth from Price so far, if you're assuming $8M/WAR -- about $70M in value for a $90M-ish investment. However, that's primarily because he was hurt and only pitched about a half-year last year. If he had pitched a full season, the Sox would be very close to breaking even so far. And you could argue that his postseason this year made up most of that gap, and I wouldn't disagree.
 

PedroKsBambino

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I'm not yet convinced that he can win throwing 91-92 consistently. One of the things that he was able to do this postseason was adjust his mechanics so that he was back to throwing 93-95. Those few extra mph make a difference.
Certainly, he's better at 93-95. I have some confidence given his control and his ability to adjust his pitch mix that he'd adapt if his velo stuck down in the low 90s, too....but I agree that's not a certainty.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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It wasn't given to the Herald, Silverman was voting on behalf of the BWAA. "J.P. Hoornstra of the Southern California News Group and I shared the Baseball Writers Association of America’s vote for World Series MVP. We were one of five members of the electorate. The others were FOX Sports, ESPN Radio, MLB Network World Feed and MLB.com."
Yes, I read it. Would you like me to rephrase? "Who gave the BBWAA vote to the guy who writes for the rag Herald?" Better?
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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It's hard to put a value on Price's performance in the ALCS and WS. I'm sure many would pay well north of 30 million AAV to get it. IF he can just stay reasonably healthy the next few seasons, it will be hard for most fans and the FO to second guess the contract.
Yeah, how do you value postseason performance? The Red Sox have been lucky in that World Series are more than once in a generation events in the last 15 years. Still, these are incredibly rare things.

Price had a .45 WPA in the World Series. Only Pearce was higher and I don't think anyone else was particularly close to those two. What's a half of a world series game win worth?

Millions I think. Many millions. I know it's not that simple. But even if the Sox only were to get 4/5 level starter production from Price for the rest of the contract, I'm good.
 
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BornToRun

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Yeah, how do you value postseason performance? The Red Sox have been lucky in that World Series are more than once in a generation events in the last 15 years. Still, these are incredibly rare things.

Price had a .45 WPA in the World Series. Only Pearce was higher and I don't think anyone else was particularly close to those two. What's a half of a world series game win worth?

Millions I think. Many millions. I know it's not that simple. But even if the Sox only were to get 4/5 level starter production from Price for the rest of the contract, I'm good.
I’ve always been of the opinion that a World Series win makes a contract worth it. We are not celebrating a championship right now without the contributions of David Price. The contract is worth it, in my opinion, and I’d say that’s going to hold true regardless of what the next four years hold.