Pick Your All-Red Sox World Series Roster

Bergs · Jan 6, 2022

Are you creating a regular season roster or a postseason roster?

Either way, I'm flipping '13 Els and '04 Damon.

If a postseason roster, 2018 Sale doesn't work for me; I'd take '18 Price or '13 Lackey.

GreenMonster49 · Jan 6, 2022

I can't take that guy George Ruth from the '18 team?

Jim Ed Rice in HOF · Jan 6, 2022

BaseballJones said:
The rotation is very good but not QUITE as good as I hoped for.

I think '13 Buchholz deserves a look although it's a weird year health wise and his playoff performance definitely didn't match his regular season. 12-1, 1.74 era, 237 era+, 1.025 whip, 8.0 k/9, 4.3 bWAR

Those numbers are better than two guys in your rotation but typing the sentence "you should replace Pedro with Buchholz" just doesn't compute.

ehaz · Jan 6, 2022

I'd switch out Ortiz for Ortiz so I could get the GOAT WS slashline from 2013 (.688/.760/1.188).

Minneapolis Millers · Jan 6, 2022

BJ, it looks like you’re looking at good fits for the bench, yes? Also, were you looking only at regular season stats or factoring in playoff performances? And is JD your late inning defensive replacement for Manny?

That pitching staff btw does look ridiculous.

Minneapolis Millers · Jan 6, 2022

I might take 2007 Wakefield as a swing pitcher/RP over Kimbrel just to allow us to f*ck with teams more! (Although then we’d need Mirabelli at C…)

Rovin Romine · Jan 6, 2022

GreenMonster49 said:
I can't take that guy George Ruth from the '18 team?

Marty Barrett's '86 post-season was amazing, as was Bruce Hurst's.

scottyno · Jan 6, 2022

I'd take Stephen Drew over Holt, better bat and better glove, not quite as versatile, but with the rest of that roster you wouldn't ever need that guy to play anywhere besides short or 2nd.

TomBrunansky23 · Jan 6, 2022

Imagine if I'd have told any of you on January 6, 2004, that on January 6, 2022, we'd be having this discussion.

I thank the good lord every day for the last two decades of the Red Sox.

grepal · Jan 7, 2022

C Varitek
1st, The Captain
2nd Pedroia
3rd Lowell
Short, Bogey
Left, Ted
Center, Fred Lynn
Right, Moonie
DH, Ortiz
Alternate, Manny
Starters Cy Young, Pedro, Giant, Lonborg and Schilling
Closer, Papelbon
Manager, Francona

CarolinaBeerGuy · Jan 7, 2022

grepal said:
C Varitek
1st, The Captain
2nd Pedroia
3rd Lowell
Short, Bogey
Left, Ted
Center, Fred Lynn
Right, Moonie
DH, Ortiz
Alternate, Manny
Starters Cy Young, Pedro, Giant, Lonborg and Schilling
Closer, Papelbon
Manager, Francona

Someone didn’t read the opening post.

Lose Remerswaal · Jan 7, 2022

CarolinaBeerGuy said:
Someone didn’t read the opening post.

Yeah. I was, like, did Varitek play First?

Who is "Giant"?

And when did Wally Moon play for the Red Sox?

Petagine in a Bottle · Jan 7, 2022

I’d consider replacing Miller with Breslow, who was arguably better that year (1.5 bWAR). I think you could potentially replace Holt with Mike Carp or Steve Pearce. Fun idea!

Brohamer of the Gods · Jan 7, 2022

I'm tempted to put 2004 Pokey Reese and 2018 JBJ on the bench just so I can see the highlight reel plays they make coming in as defensive replacements in the neverending series of 8-2 games the rest of the team would produce.

ehaz · Jan 7, 2022

I'd take Orlando Cabrera on the bench over Holt. 1.8 bWAR in only 58 games in 2004.

Brohamer of the Gods · Jan 7, 2022

BaseballJones said:
No. Did you read the OP?

To be fair, in the OP you did not specify which '18 Red Sox World Series winning team we could choose from.

Brohamer of the Gods · Jan 7, 2022

The 1918 pitching staff leads in nicknames: Sad Sam, Bullet Joe, Dutch, King.

Al Zarilla · Jan 7, 2022

BaseballJones said:
You know which other team’s fan base can do this exercise using four World Series winning teams in the 2000’s?

None.

Statistically speaking, in the long history of baseball, three (Giants) is about the same as four (Red Sox). You'll do the Giants next, right? I didn't think so.

Archer1979 · Jan 7, 2022

Al Zarilla said:
Statistically speaking, in the long history of baseball, three (Giants) is about the same as four (Red Sox). You'll do the Giants next, right? I didn't think so.

Let's make the 21st Century as a line of demarcation. The NYY are stuck with just the 2009 roster.

Five Cent Head · Jan 7, 2022

BaseballJones said:
My main starting batting order would be:

1. Betts (.438 OBP, are you kidding me?)
2. Youkilis (.390 OBP - you're getting guys on base a ton right out of the gate for the big guns)
3. Ortiz
4. Manny
5. Lowell
6. Youkilis
7. Varitek (Bogey is a better hitter but I like how it could help with the L-R thing to put Varitek here)
8. Bogaerts
9. Ellsbury (love the speed at the bottom of the lineup, and he will set up the top of the order nicely)

Should #6 be Pedroia?

Jim Ed Rice in HOF · Jan 7, 2022

jhp64 said:
Should #6 be Pedroia?

Pedey's going to rip @BaseballJones a new one for not putting him in the lineup. Probably the last guy you want to leave on the bench from a never hear the end of it perspective. Pedey will also want to hit clean up.

Minneapolis Millers · Jan 7, 2022

Seriously, which of those closers do you want handling the 9th, if you have to go with one? I think it’s Koji.

Minneapolis Millers · Jan 7, 2022

BaseballJones said:
Yes and no to your question, MM. good bench players - I was looking for a combo of versatility and production. Honestly, Holt’s 2018 season was just pretty damned good on its own merit. He’s basically a perfect backup for this team as he can cover for anyone at anytime.

Also, my JD question was tongue in cheek, but he actually was a better offensive player than Manny, year v year. That’s a tough choice for bad D starting OF!

Jim Ed Rice in HOF · Jan 7, 2022

BaseballJones said:
I've posted this before in a SOSH thread, but compare the postseason runs of Foulke (2004), Papelbon (2007), and Koji (2013). Each of them was just mind-bogglingly good.

But that said, I've never ever been more calm watching a pitcher close out games than Koji in 2013. So I'll take him.

Foulke took at least 5 years off my life in ‘04. I don’t recall anything close to that with Koji or Papelbon.

Petagine in a Bottle · Jan 7, 2022

Koji was just so dominant and you didn’t have to worry about a walk, and he was such a fun guy. Of course, Papelbon was ridiculously dominant too, which I think people kind of forget. He only gave up postseason runs in one game (of course, it was awful), and he kind of wore out his welcome by the end by being associated with the collapse. But I think he’d have to be considered for most under appreciated Red Sox player of the last two decades or so.

jon abbey · Jan 8, 2022

Petagine in a Bottle said:
Koji was just so dominant and you didn’t have to worry about a walk, and he was such a fun guy. Of course, Papelbon was ridiculously dominant too, which I think people kind of forget. He only gave up postseason runs in one game (of course, it was awful), and he kind of wore out his welcome by the end by being associated with the collapse. But I think he’d have to be considered for most under appreciated Red Sox player of the last two decades or so.

I’m guessing this has something to do with his final appearance for BOS, game 162 in 2011.

Daniel_Son · Jan 8, 2022

Jim Ed Rice in HOF said:
Foulke took at least 5 years off my life in ‘04. I don’t recall anything close to that with Koji or Papelbon.

Obviously the stakes weren't nearly as high as '04, but Kimbrel in '18 was absolutely terrifying.

PC Drunken Friar · Jan 8, 2022

Interesting excercise. I went and did the Giants ("10, '12 and '14). Obviously a much shorter window, but damn, how did they win? Awesome BP, Good to Great SP (and, of course MadBum in the playoffs), Posey and...meh?


Starters
C	Buster	Posey 2012	24	103	0.336	0.408	0.549	0.957	171	7.6
1B	Aubrey	Huff 2010	26	86	0.29	0.385	0.506	0.891	142	5.7
2B	Freddie	Sanchez 2010	7	47	0.292	0.342	0.397	0.739	102	1.9
3B	Pablo	Sandoval 2014	16	73	0.279	0.324	0.415	0.739	111	3.2
SS	Brandon	Crawford 2014	10	69	0.246	0.324	0.389	0.713	104	3.4
LF	Melk	Cabrera 2012	11	60	0.346	0.39	0.516	0.906	157	4.8
CF	Angel	Pagan 2012	8	56	0.275	0.36	0.421	0.781	123	4.2
RF	Hunter	Pence 2014	20	74	0.277	0.332	0.445	0.777	121	4
DH	Mike	Morse 2014	16	61	0.279	0.336	0.475	0.811	130	0.9
Bench
C	Benji	Molina 2010	3	17	0.257	0.312	0.322	0.634	77	0.1
CIF	Brandon	Belt 2012	7	56	0.275	0.36	0.421	0.781	123	2.8
MIF	Marco	Scutaro 2012	3	44	0.362	0.385	0.473	0.858	144	2.1
OF	Pat	Burrell 2010	18	51	0.266	0.364	0.509	0.873	136	2.1
OF	Andres	Torres 2010	16	63	0.268	0.343	0.479	0.822	122	5.3
Pitching
SP	Matt	Cain 2012	16-5	2.79	126	1.04	3.9	7.9
SP	Jonathan	Sanchez 2010	13-9	3.07	127	1.23	3.2	9.5
SP	Madison	Bumgarner 2014	18-10	2.98	116	1.09	3.7	9.1
SP	Tim	Lincecum 2010	16-10	3.43	114	1.27	3.3	9.8
SP	Jake	Peavy 2014	6 and 4	2.17	1.04	1.04	1.9	6.6
Swing	Ryan	Vogelsong 2012	14-9	3.37	105	1.22	1.9	7.5
RP	Brian	Wilson 2010	3 and 3	1.81	217	1.17	2.8	11.2
RP	Santiago	Castilla 2010	7 and 2	1.95	201	1.19	1.6	10.2
RP	Sergio	Romo 2012	4 and 2	1.79	198	0.84	1.9	10.2
RP	Javier	Lopez 2012	3 and 0	2.5	142	1.41	0.5	7
RP	Jeremy	Affeldt 2014	4and 2	2.28	152	1.1	1.3	6.7
RP	Jean	Machi 2014	7 and 1	2.58	134	0.95	1.4	9.2

I mean, would that team be favored to win their division any time in the last 15 years?

EDIT: I used WAR from Baseball-Reference, couldn't find bWAR...is that the same thing? Because the SP WAR looks WAY too high?

RedOctober3829 · Jan 8, 2022

C: '04 Varitek
1B: '07 Youkilis
2B: '07 Pedroia
SS: '18 Bogaerts
3B: '07 Lowell
LF: '04 Ramirez
CF: '18 Betts
RF: '18 JD Martinez
DH: '07 Ortiz
Bench: '04 Johnny Damon , '18 Christian Vazquez, '18 Brock Holt, '13 Mike Napoli

Lineup
Betts CF
Pedroia 2B
Ortiz DH
Ramirez LF
Martinez RF
Bogaerts SS
Youkilis 1B
Lowell 3B
Varitek C

Starters
'04 Pedro Martinez
'04 Curt Schilling
'18 Chris Sale
'07 Josh Beckett
'13 Jon Lester

Bullpen
'13 Koji
'04 Foulke
'07 Papelbon
'18 Kimbrel
'07 Okajima
'07 Breslow
'04 Timlin
'18 Joe Kelly

Jim Ed Rice in HOF · Jan 8, 2022

Daniel_Son said:
Obviously the stakes weren't nearly as high as '04, but Kimbrel in '18 was absolutely terrifying.

Oh without a doubt but the initial post was referencing incredible post season runs of the other years since, like you point out, ‘18 didn’t have one of those from our closer.

Al Zarilla · Jan 9, 2022

About the Giants, Posey, yes, and also Brandon Crawford has been an outstanding fielding SS throughout his career and sometimes the hitting shows up for him too. Brandon Belt, kind of the same. And don't forget that Pablo Sandoval set a record for hits in a single postseason in 2014 while suckering the Red Sox in.

it was largely their pitching though: Bumgarner, Lincecum and Matt Cain, and a really good bullpen with standouts Wilson, Romo, Affeldt and old friend Javier Lopez. Finally, the manager Bruce Bochy. A lot of the things we say about Alex Cora you can say about Bochy as well: player's manager plus an excellent go-between between the players and upper management. Very smart. A Career backup guy like Cora, he spent a lot of time in the dugout learning how to manage. I just don't remember this guy making in game mistakes.

I'm just as happy that the Sox didn't run into the Giants in any World Series.We might have lost one, I don't know.

Late Yclept Chanticleer · Jan 9, 2022

The OP and I think all rosters that have followed have 5 players listed as SP. This exercise is to create a roster to play in a time-displaced World Series, correct, not a regular season?

If so, I believe four starters is the playoff custom throughout MLB. A quick googling verifies that in the '13 and '18 WS, at least, both the AL and NL teams used only four starters apiece over the six respective games. Doesn't apply to '04 or '07, of course.

Any thoughts on whether such a change would better be effected by just retitling one's #5 and swing pitcher's roles down a notch each or does it make sense to redeploy that roster spot somehow? An extra bat or glove? Another short inning fireballer? Kevin Youkilis from the '04 WS? I'm no stathead.

Sox37937 · Jan 10, 2022

As a variation on this very fun exercise, what if you take "closer" as a position, and can only have one of Foulke, Paps, Koji, or Kimbrel, so middle relievers get some consideration?
Perhaps that opens the door to, for example, Timlin, Joe Kelly, even Wakefield, who would presumably be used in relief in the post season/WS.

kfoss99 · Jan 11, 2022

Sox37937 said:
As a variation on this very fun exercise, what if you take "closer" as a position, and can only have one of Foulke, Paps, Koji, or Kimbrel, so middle relievers get some consideration?
Perhaps that opens the door to, for example, Timlin, Joe Kelly, even Wakefield, who would presumably be used in relief in the post season/WS.

The Embree/Timlin setup duo in '04 was great, as I remember.

Embree had a .6 WHIP in the '04 WS. Timlin a 1.0 WHIP.

Pick Your All-Red Sox World Series Roster

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