Always thought this was a case of Davonte Green vs Max Strus...? I recall they converted Strus from a 2 way to a standard, then Green beat him out for the standard spot.
Pick #38- Jordan Walsh
- Thread starter Cellar-Door
- Start date
We've had this discussion before (see, e.g., https://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?threads/16-days-in-january-determining-trade-deadline-activity.35490/page-10#post-4839251). Some folks believe that Strus would have stayed on a two-way if the Cs had parted with Tacko.
I always thought the Cs weren't interested in keeping both Javonte Green and Strus but seeing this Westerholm article from that time - https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2019/10/boston-celtics-tacko-falls-two-way-deal-puts-max-strus-javonte-green-in-competition-for-final-roster-spot.html - maybe that was correct.
But then again, if the Cs keep Strus and cut Tacko and then Strus hurts his knee (like he did in CHI), maybe we don't end up with either Strus or any of the Tacko minutes that we loved and cherished.
This Reddit post - https://www.reddit.com/r/bostonceltics/comments/192n685/jordan_walsh_tough_shot_maker/?rdt=65124 - is from someone who apparently watches Maine's games and says that Walsh isn't just shooting wide-open 24 footers. He includes a couple of videos of Walsh shooting, including one that looks to be 30-ish feet and Walsh drains it pretty effortlessly.
He also includes a video of a bad sequence from Walsh.
He also includes a video of a bad sequence from Walsh.
5 game sample size on the 41.7%. For the season he's at 36% from 3 on 121 attempts. Showing flashes for sure with the shot which is encouraging, but the overall offensive game is still pretty rough.
Walsh is a long way away from what I've seen. The defense isn't even there yet. If the defense was there, he'd probably be getting some minutes with the big club.
The one thing I've seen from him that I have liked is that he can finish at the rim even with dudes around him. (Not that he can get there by driving closeouts -- it's only in transition.)
The one thing I've seen from him that I have liked is that he can finish at the rim even with dudes around him. (Not that he can get there by driving closeouts -- it's only in transition.)
It's basically a redshirt year for Walsh. Let's hope he carve out a role with the parent club next season.
I don't know how anybody could have watched Summer League and thought Jordan Walsh would contribute at the NBA level this season.
Defense is his calling card and the footwork + body didn't look close to NBA-ready. He has some lengthy physical tools that will play when he fills out. Maybe he'll develop the Corner3 & get there eventually
I enjoy seeing young players get a chance, so hopefully he gets some garbage time minutes. BUT Joe does have a mature, deep bench that wants to play, contribute, and get contracts next season.
Defense is his calling card and the footwork + body didn't look close to NBA-ready. He has some lengthy physical tools that will play when he fills out. Maybe he'll develop the Corner3 & get there eventually
I enjoy seeing young players get a chance, so hopefully he gets some garbage time minutes. BUT Joe does have a mature, deep bench that wants to play, contribute, and get contracts next season.
IDK, I watched the wraiths that OKC runs out there (SGA, Holmgren, Joe, Giddey, etc.) last night and he seems more physically developed than them, and they're really good basketball players. Skill development is what he really needs, hopefully he's getting that in Maine.
sure shooting & dribbling a basketball helps, figured that was understood.
BUT if he is going to be a defensive menace, like Jordan was billed, then he needs to grow & be able to move his feet
Yeah it's a combination. Some size wouldn't hurt him because he plays wing, but his athleticism is great. The skills need a lot of growth. And there's also a bit of a Bambi factor. He looked pretty lost even in SL. Reminded me of early Nesmith but even worse. Poor reads on both ends. Game was moving too fast for him. Getting reps in Maine is a great first step in solving that problem, one of the few things that the G league is good for developmentally IMO. If he gets any minutes in Boston, we'll see if he looks more locked in and makes better reads.
Nice first game for Jordan. The rebounds fell into his lap, but he didn't fumble them away. He wasn't running around like a maniac (Nesmith year 1), he was in control.
Good first step for the rookie.
Good first step for the rookie.
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I was at the game and his debut got a great crowd reaction. People were really pulling for his one shot to go in, but nice way for him to ease into real game action.
I can only imagine the level of jacked-up a guy must feel when taking his first shot in the NBA. Whatever mechanics you've worked on probably out the door the second the ball hits your hands in shooting position.
Nice article about Jordan Walsh.
40% from 3 at Maine.
There is a chance he can grab the Brissett role next season (10th man)
https://www.celticsblog.com/2024/1/19/24043878/behind-the-scenes-with-jordan-walsh-on-his-memorable-nba-debut-maine-celtics-boston
40% from 3 at Maine.
There is a chance he can grab the Brissett role next season (10th man)
https://www.celticsblog.com/2024/1/19/24043878/behind-the-scenes-with-jordan-walsh-on-his-memorable-nba-debut-maine-celtics-boston
The 40% (actually 41) is just for the "regular" season which has only been 8 games. The 16 game "showcase" he shot 34% from 3.
Nice to hear the accolades about his defensive potential.
Love that it is off of two feet, almost jumps past the basket, and the certainty he was taking it all the way. Good for him.
He made a good read there. He said after the game that he was taught run to the corner, but saw the alley and went to the rim. Nice job by Brissett there too grabbing the rebound and leading the break.
Could we be talking about this dunk as Jordan Walsh’s only basket as a Boston Celtic? The only sense his drafting made was to showcase him without exposing him for the purpose of being a deadline asset.
Hauser in the opp corner also was pumped. I think he jumped up with both fists raised above his head. And you would have a hard time convincing me that Brissett didnt engineer that (at least from the point he got the rebound and saw Jordan starting to sprint off to his right). He was gonna do everything he could to get the kid a bucket. Pretty cool when your talking about the 10th ish guy who probably woulda loved the bucket himself.
Jordan is averaging 6.5 points 6.5 assists, 19.6 rebounds, and 3.3 steals (per 100 possessions) and has a 152 ORtg and 103 DRtg (also per 100 possessions).
Given Boston's payroll stratification I'm not sure there is any deal out there for them. Honestly the only real need they'd have is a Pritchard upgrade, but I'm not seeing any way for them to get one (e.g. Caruso). Any guy they trade for has to make less than ≈ $8.5 million, and would require them to send out so many warm bodies that it immediately complicates things.
This. Walsh’s biggest asset is not his play, it’s his ability to carry top end talent due to his cost. If he can somehow morph into a 3 and D guy, great, but that’s not really his main contribution.
Agreed, but I think it's still possible. One scenario that checks out on Sportrac's checker is Caruso for Pritchard, Brissett, and Kornet. The C's could take in Drummond using their exception in a preceding trade and make it a 3-2 swap, where the Bulls don't have to cut anyone.
Oh, yeah, I forgot that Drummond was in Chitown. That would work. Of course, losing Brissett actually hurts.
Does it? If the guy coming in is Caruso, I am quite unsure it would hurt. Caruso and Holiday are both guards that can easily cover the same 3's and some 4's that Brissett did
I intentionally said "some". He is probably closer to White than Jrue, but if tasked with covering the occasional 4 he can hold his own. Brissett is fine, but it's not as if he is Jaden McDaniels out there or anything
I legit don't know what this means. If he can contribute at all someday, then yes that contribution at a super low cost would be great. If he's never good enough to get on an NBA court, then he has no value at all. It's not like they need him to meet a salary floor or minimum roster size (they're well over).
I'm not sure what was meant either. This season, Walsh could have some value as a trade piece, although my guess is that the value is fairly low, and Stevens may prefer to dish out a couple of 2nds instead.
Walsh becomes potentially less value as a trade piece when the trade aggregation rules kick in, although I do think teams under the 2nd apron can still accept minimum salaried players in a trade without worrying about the cap implications. He basically becomes the equivalent of a MLB-style "prospect", whose value could increase or decrease over time. But he costs the Celtics nothing to keep him on the ass end of the roster until he is either traded, finds a role on the team, or eventually leaves via free agency. In that respect, he is more valuable to the Celtics than a Banton or a Mykhailiuk.
I am still intrigued. He'll definitely be given run in Summer League and the 2nd halves of preseason games. Upside for next season is that he breaks into the Top 12, which basically means he gets bench minutes when 2 or more starters are out (like we've seen with Brissett and even Banton [one start] this season).
It is that he is cheap so they have space under the cap for their expensive players, I think.
I like comparing Walsh to Peyton Watson on Denver. Watson's just a year ahead (drafted in '22).
-Both were high level recruits, similar body type. Watson measured an inch taller, they have nearly identical standing reach and wingspan (half inch different - Watson taller on standing reach, Walsh has him on the wingspan). I don't think either is a significantly greater athlete than the other (though I could be wrong). Watson seems like the better ball handler, both have the rep for being active defensively.
-Both didn't score a ton as freshmen. Watson played even less than Walsh did - just 12 minutes per game on a very good UCLA team. Walsh got 24 minutes for a good Arkansas team
Watson: 32.2% FG / 22.6% 3FG / 68.8% FT
Walsh: 43.3% FG / 27.8% 3FG / 71.2% FT
As a rookie - Watson's G-League shooting stats weren't very good, but he got a some late season run with Denver:
GLeague (just 7 games): 45.8% FG / 14.3% 3FG / 78.4% FT
NBA (just 186 minutes) : 49.2% FG / 42.9% 3FG / 55% FT - total of 59 FG and 14 3FG.
Almost all of his NBA production came after February his rookie year. He made a grand total of 3 field goals prior to then.
I don't think anyone a year ago would have predicted this out of Watson, based on what he had done in College and GLeague - he's still got a negative BPM but there's obvious promise with him.
I think it's unlikely next year Walsh matches what Watson is doing this year, that's a pretty big climb Watson took. And Oct 2024 Walsh will also be 6 months younger than Watson was on opening day 2023. But I think we can have some hope Walsh is on a similar track.
-Both were high level recruits, similar body type. Watson measured an inch taller, they have nearly identical standing reach and wingspan (half inch different - Watson taller on standing reach, Walsh has him on the wingspan). I don't think either is a significantly greater athlete than the other (though I could be wrong). Watson seems like the better ball handler, both have the rep for being active defensively.
-Both didn't score a ton as freshmen. Watson played even less than Walsh did - just 12 minutes per game on a very good UCLA team. Walsh got 24 minutes for a good Arkansas team
Watson: 32.2% FG / 22.6% 3FG / 68.8% FT
Walsh: 43.3% FG / 27.8% 3FG / 71.2% FT
As a rookie - Watson's G-League shooting stats weren't very good, but he got a some late season run with Denver:
GLeague (just 7 games): 45.8% FG / 14.3% 3FG / 78.4% FT
NBA (just 186 minutes) : 49.2% FG / 42.9% 3FG / 55% FT - total of 59 FG and 14 3FG.
Almost all of his NBA production came after February his rookie year. He made a grand total of 3 field goals prior to then.
I don't think anyone a year ago would have predicted this out of Watson, based on what he had done in College and GLeague - he's still got a negative BPM but there's obvious promise with him.
I think it's unlikely next year Walsh matches what Watson is doing this year, that's a pretty big climb Watson took. And Oct 2024 Walsh will also be 6 months younger than Watson was on opening day 2023. But I think we can have some hope Walsh is on a similar track.
I want him to spend next summer working out with JB to build his frame up a bit.
Though what do we think is best for his development, tons of minutes in the G or sporadic with the big club but lots of practice against superior players? Usually I almost always lean towards young guys getting more reps, but with the system Joe runs that elevates players I wonder if its best for his development to stay in Boston all season
Though what do we think is best for his development, tons of minutes in the G or sporadic with the big club but lots of practice against superior players? Usually I almost always lean towards young guys getting more reps, but with the system Joe runs that elevates players I wonder if its best for his development to stay in Boston all season
Practice time gets pretty limited once the season starts, but I have to think there'll be some minutes for him in the regular season, assuming that Joe prioritizes rest for his regulars a little more this year. I'm guessing he's #4 on the wing rotation behind the Jays and Hauser.
Right. Oshae played 630 minutes last year. Svi played another 400 or so. There is some time available.
Yep, 4th wing. With Walker as the 4th guard and a big rotation that is 4 deep to start the season, we have reason to be optimistic.
While Walsh has clearly worked on and improved his shot, I have been most surprised by his early success in taking it to the hole. The kid is learning from watching and playing with JT/JB and being strongly coached.
The fact he can play 2-4 pretty easily definitely helps his chances at playing time. I'd be a bit surprised if he averages fewer than 10 mins/game, since the team is clearly looking to aggressively rest guys (hi Jrue and Al!).
The majority of those were 4Q garbage time minutes though. Only Brissett played any meaningful spot minutes after the Lamar Stevens look failed miserably and we were relatively healthy on the year. So yeah, there will be some meaningful spot minutes available but I wanted to put those 600 and 400 minute numbers in context as nearly half of Brissett's 600 minutes occurred in games with a 25+ point spread.
Yup, was nearly all garbage time (unlike PP, for example, who actually played lots of meaningful minutes).
Fwiw, Walsh looks better than Brissett and Svi, is very young, seems to have found a bit of an improvement model, and Mazzulla likes what he's doing (unlike Springer, who was clearly not taking to coaching). I'm cautiously optimistic there will be real game minutes for Jordan.