Philadelphia vs Houston - World Series thread

[canderson]

Philadelphia seems to have “it” but Houston is an absolute juggernaut and will be well rested. Give me Astros in 5.

I hope it goes 7. I’ll likely be at game 4 and don’t want to see a Houston title first-hand.

Schedule (all games on FOX)
Game 1 - Friday, Oct. 28 @ Houston
Game 2 - Saturday, Oct. 29 @ Houston
Game 3 - Monday, Oct. 31 @ Philadelphia
Game 4 -Tuesday, Nov. 1 @ Philadelphia
Game 5 -Wednesday, Nov. 2 @ Philadelphia (if necessary)
Game 6 - Friday, Nov. 4 @ Houston (if necessary)
Game 7 - Saturday, Nov. 5 @ Houston (if necessary)

 

[santadevil]

Cheering for the underdog Phillies

 

[DeadlySplitter]

For the third WS in a row for the Astros they face an upstart NL East team.

 

[rajendra82]

Just dropping in here to say a hearty F U to Ted Cruz.

 

[NorthwestSoxGuy]

I'll be pulling for the Phillies to win even though it's unlikely they'll beat Houston.

 

[streeter88]

This has been shared already, but hoping the Astros win…
View: https://twitter.com/thestreet/status/1582391367451672580?s=21&t=_iRioTWteLaMZ7cdljVBEw

 

[shawnrbu]

Absent any other rooting preference, rather see the 106 win team win the World Series instead of an 87 win 3rd Wild Card.

 

[Mueller's Twin Grannies]

Both teams will have the exact same amount of rest, since they both cinched on the same day. But, if you want to be technical, Philadelphia had a few hours head start on Houston.

 

[hunter05]

Absent any other rooting preference, rather see the 106 win team win the World Series instead of an 87 win 3rd Wild Card.

Why?

 

[DeadlySplitter]

The Astros last lost a game against Aaron Nola.

 

[catomatic]

I predict that, regardless of the outcome, the foremost local beneficiary of the Fighting Phils ascending to the biggest stage will be John Fetterman.

Doc Oz will misidentify a player, a fundamental rule or piece of regional baseball pride, and the candidate who looks like an ex-DH and who could circulate easily and unaffectedly in that clubhouse stands to gain significantly.

Just get a mic in Doc Oz’s face and let him start creating his own unwitting blooper real.

 

[shawnrbu]

Why?

I like seeing the team that was excellent over the 162 get the big prize over the team that had a good season. I wouldn’t want the giant to win every year. With the Braves winning last year with an 88 win team, I would rather see a great team like the Astros win this year instead of another high 80s win team.

 

[Leskanic's Thread]

I understand the 76ers and Celtics are divisional rivals, and the Flyers and Bruins have had plenty of tussles over the years. And the Eagles beat the Patriots in the Super Bowl that one time. But...despite all that, I've never really attached myself to any negative feelings towards Philadelphia as a sports city. Maybe it's because basketball is where the rivalry is strongest and that's the sport I'm least plugged into. Maybe it's because I went to college there and just know too many locals I can be happy for when the Phillies do well. It just seems like both cities have a similar amount of passion, vim, and vigor about their sports, and both have a burning hatred of New York sports teams.

Add to that the fact that the Phillies have a longer "drought" (14 years isn't much, but it's more than five, asterisks and all), plus they are big-time Cinderella underdogs, and it's an easy call: go Team Schwarber!

 

[hunter05]

I like seeing the team that was excellent over the 162 get the big prize over the team that had a good season. I wouldn’t want the giant to win every year. With the Braves winning last year with an 88 win team, I would rather see a great team like the Astros win this year instead of another high 80s win team.

Interesting. I almost always root for the underdog absent a specific reason. Like I said earlier, if the Astros win that means Vaz gets another ring which I‘d enjoy. But I’ll still be cheering for the Phillies.

 

[loshjott]

I understand the 76ers and Celtics are divisional rivals, and the Flyers and Bruins have had plenty of tussles over the years. And the Eagles beat the Patriots in the Super Bowl that one time. But...despite all that, I've never really attached myself to any negative feelings towards Philadelphia as a sports city. Maybe it's because basketball is where the rivalry is strongest and that's the sport I'm least plugged into. Maybe it's because I went to college there and just know too many locals I can be happy for when the Phillies do well. It just seems like both cities have a similar amount of passion, vim, and vigor about their sports, and both have a burning hatred of New York sports teams.

Add to that the fact that the Phillies have a longer "drought" (14 years isn't much, but it's more than five, asterisks and all), plus they are big-time Cinderella underdogs, and it's an easy call: go Team Schwarber!

I went to college there too and had the same feelings (and who among us Pats fans weren't rooting for the Eagles over the Raiders in the SB that year?) until I moved to DC and many years later the Nats came to town. The Phillies fans invaded first RFK stadium then Nats Park so thoroughly and obnoxiously those first several years, which coincided with the last Phillies glory era, that it made me hate that team thoroughly. And their fans. Yet I'll still root for them against the cheatin' Astros.

 

[Papo The Snow Tiger]

Rooting for the Astors in the ALCS was like I what I imagine rooting for Stalin in WWII was like; they're both abhorrent on many levels but still better than the alternative. But now that the Battle of Stalingrad is over go Phillies.

 

[LogansDad]

Man, I got nothing for this one. No real rooting interest, just want to see 7 great baseball games.

Spoiler

The Astros pitching is clearly superior, I think, but the Phillies bats are much better than the 2nd half of the team who the Astros eliminated last night.

Verlander, Framber, Javier and McCullers against Wheeler, Nola, Suarez, Thor and Falter isn't that lopsided, but the Astros depth is something to keep an eye out on.

The Astros bullpen is just so, so good. Huge advantage for them.

Love Realmuto, love Maldonado, obviously love Vazquez. I think the edge at catcher is clearly Philly, though.

If Hoskins keeps hitting the way he has, I think first base is close to a toss up, but Gurriel's glove might give the Astros a decent advantage here.

I like Segura and am glad he finally made it to the playoffs this year, and he might actually give the Phillies and advantage here with the way Altuve has been hitting. I'd say tossup right now, but advantage Astros if Altuve gets his contact prescription updated this week.

Bregman vs Bohm at third I think is a pretty clear advantage for Houston. Bohm is batting just .189 and Bregman is clearly still an elite defender over there.

Schwarber, Marsh, Castellanos, Guthrie and Vierling vs Yordan, McCormick, Tucker is probably the biggest positional mismatch in favor of the Astros when you combine offense and defense, but man those Phillies can hit.

DH is probably the Phillies biggest advantage with Harper against Mancini. I am a big Mancini fan, but he looks completely overmatched right now.

My favorite matchup, though, is the rookie shortstops. Stott struggled badly early in the season, but from the end of June on his .263, with 23 XBH's and 9 steals, and he is a lot of fun to watch in the field. The numbers don't really bear it out, but I feel like he has improved at SS as the season has gone on, and has been playing really well out there in the playoffs. Pena is on another level, though. He has vaulted up my list of most fun players to watch this postseason, and just destroyed the Yankees.

I am going to guess Astros in 7.

 

[Ferm Sheller]

The only thing I really cared about this baseball post-season happened last night. I don't care who wins the WS.

 

[CoffeeNerdness]

If the Phillies go on to win this under the stewardship of Dave Dombrowski was firing the man less than a year after one of the best seasons in Red Sox history the right move? I say this as someone who wasn't a great fan of his(the Sale contract will chap my hide to eternity) and completely bought into the narrative that DD was a guy you brought in to put you over the top(proving it again in PHI), but when it came to reloading they needed a fresh vision. I loved last year's ALCS run, but I'm pessimistic about the Sox chances of being competitive in this division over the next 5 or so years.

 

[bosockboy]

Rooting for the Astors in the ALCS was like I what I imagine rooting for Stalin in WWII was like; they're both abhorrent on many levels but still better than the alternative. But now that the Battle of Stalingrad is over go Phillies.

I called it castor oil vs. arsenic.

 

[Ted Cox 4 president]

I’ll be rooting for the Phillies, for sure, not because I particularly like them, other than Schwarber, but because they’re not the Astors. But if Houston wins, I expect to get over it quickly. The sun will rise, the sun will set, and I’ll have lunch, as a great man once said.

 

[brandonchristensen]

Does anyone know if the Yankees won or did they get eliminated?

 

[E5 Yaz]

Does anyone know if the Yankees won or did they get eliminated?

They finished alone in second place in the ALCS, while the Astros wound up next-to-last

 

[TapeAndPosts]

Rooting for the Astors in the ALCS was like I what I imagine rooting for Stalin in WWII was like; they're both abhorrent on many levels but still better than the alternative. But now that the Battle of Stalingrad is over go Phillies.

This is where I am. Forcing me to root for the Astros is now one more thing I hold against the Yankees.

 

[Bozo Texino]

Go 'Stros.

 

[Average Reds]

I watched every pitch of the 1980 NLCS between the Phillies and Astros. The deciding game was an all-time classic, as the Phillies won 8-7 in 10 innings.

Here’s a key play from early in game 5, when the Astros were threatening to break the game open. Still the greatest relay throw I’ve ever seen:


Go Phillies!

 

[jon abbey]

I watched every pitch of the 1980 NLCS between the Phillies and Astros. The deciding game was an all-time classic, as the Phillies won 8-7 in 10 innings.

The whole series was an all-time classic, the final four (of five) games went extra innings and there were constant lead changes. This is the series that made me fall in love with baseball at 13 years old, I watched a bunch before but this series was flat-out insane. I think Terry Puhl had something like 42 hits in the 5 games (actually he went 10 for 19).

 

[BornToRun]

I’m saying Astros in five. I figure that, sooner or later, Houston actually has to beat one of the lower seeded NL East teams that they’re matched up against.

 

[Leskanic's Thread]

I went to college there too and had the same feelings (and who among us Pats fans weren't rooting for the Eagles over the Raiders in the SB that year?) until I moved to DC and many years later the Nats came to town. The Phillies fans invaded first RFK stadium then Nats Park so thoroughly and obnoxiously those first several years, which coincided with the last Phillies glory era, that it made me hate that team thoroughly. And their fans. Yet I'll still root for them against the cheatin' Astros.

Understandable, but to push back slight: would a neutral fan feel similarly about Red Sox fans in Baltimore for the last couple of decades?

I'll stop pushing the narrative -- I am more than willing to acquiesce that Philly fans are more strident and obnoxious than Boston fans. I just think the distance between the two isn't as much as many of us would like to believe...but when one side has Santa snowballs and J.D. Drew batteries, they don't get much quarter.

 

[brandonchristensen]

They finished alone in second place in the ALCS, while the Astros wound up next-to-last

Ah shoot.

Well.

Just wait for next year!

 

[InsideTheParker]

Just dropping in here to say a hearty F U to Ted Cruz.

Every time I make a vaguely political statement, the mods chastise me. Somehow you guys are getting away with it. I guess I ought to have cussed more.

 

[54thMA]

I watched every pitch of the 1980 NLCS between the Phillies and Astros. The deciding game was an all-time classic, as the Phillies won 8-7 in 10 innings.

Here’s a key play from early in game 5, when the Astros were threatening to break the game open. Still the greatest relay throw I’ve ever seen:


Go Phillies!

He would have scored easily if he didn't have that piano on his back.

I'm in the camp of "I'd rather see a team that was a wagon all year long finish the job vs some team that burped and farted along, got hot for two weeks and won a WS"..........so go Astors.

 

[54thMA]

If the Phillies go on to win this under the stewardship of Dave Dombrowski was firing the man less than a year after one of the best seasons in Red Sox history the right move? I say this as someone who wasn't a great fan of his(the Sale contract will chap my hide to eternity) and completely bought into the narrative that DD was a guy you brought in to put you over the top(proving it again in PHI), but when it came to reloading they needed a fresh vision. I loved last year's ALCS run, but I'm pessimistic about the Sox chances of being competitive in this division over the next 5 or so years.

Give me the guy who signed Chris Sale to that shitty contract over the guy who traded away Mookie Betts.

And yeah, I get it; if Dobrowski had not signed Sale to that shitty contract, the Red Sox would have been able to sign Mookie Betts."

They should have and could have figured out a way to keep him despite the Sale contract; this isn't Tampa, Kansas City or Oakland.

 

[Mueller's Twin Grannies]

The Astros were the favorites against the Nationals and lost. They were arguably worse than the Phillies, who have lost only two more game than the Astros this postseason. This Astros team may be better than that one, but I'm not sure it's by much. I don't see them going unbeaten and Philly fans are crazy, which could get to them. I'm going to bet the underdog here. Phils in 6 or 7.

 

[Yelling At Clouds]

If the Phillies go on to win this under the stewardship of Dave Dombrowski was firing the man less than a year after one of the best seasons in Red Sox history the right move? I say this as someone who wasn't a great fan of his(the Sale contract will chap my hide to eternity) and completely bought into the narrative that DD was a guy you brought in to put you over the top(proving it again in PHI), but when it came to reloading they needed a fresh vision. I loved last year's ALCS run, but I'm pessimistic about the Sox chances of being competitive in this division over the next 5 or so years.

An aside about Dombrowski, I know he has the reputation of emptying out the farm, but who was the best young prospect/young MLBer he traded away in Detroit? Eugenio Suarez? Avisail Garcia?

EDIT: Forgot about Andrew Miller, but I don’t think anyone in Detroit is too upset about that one.

 

[rajendra82]

Every time I make a vaguely political statement, the mods chastise me. Somehow you guys are getting away with it. I guess I ought to have cussed more.

Hating Ted Cruz is bipartisan.

 

[MFYankees]

Hating Ted Cruz is bipartisan.

Indeed. Here in Texas we have "Humans against Cruz" bumper stickers.

 

[trekfan55]

Give me the guy who signed Chris Sale to that shitty contract over the guy who traded away Mookie Betts.

And yeah, I get it; if Dobrowski had not signed Sale to that shitty contract, the Red Sox would have been able to sign Mookie Betts."

They should have and could have figured out a way to keep him despite the Sale contract; this isn't Tampa, Kansas City or Oakland.

Sidetrack a bit, but trading Betts was a decision that, IMO is not made by a GM alone. This was a case where someone higher up said "we are not apying more than X amount" and knowing that, the decision was made to trade him.

I agree that it was wrong to trade him, but I do not think that if Dombrowski stays, so does Betts.

 

[InstaFace]

I understand the 76ers and Celtics are divisional rivals, and the Flyers and Bruins have had plenty of tussles over the years. And the Eagles beat the Patriots in the Super Bowl that one time. But...despite all that, I've never really attached myself to any negative feelings towards Philadelphia as a sports city. Maybe it's because basketball is where the rivalry is strongest and that's the sport I'm least plugged into. Maybe it's because I went to college there and just know too many locals I can be happy for when the Phillies do well. It just seems like both cities have a similar amount of passion, vim, and vigor about their sports, and both have a burning hatred of New York sports teams.

Add to that the fact that the Phillies have a longer "drought" (14 years isn't much, but it's more than five, asterisks and all), plus they are big-time Cinderella underdogs, and it's an easy call: go Team Schwarber!

I'm with you on this. Other than dunking on the Eagles in / after the 2004 Super Bowl, when they prematurely announced plans for their SB championship parade (and fuck Freddie Mitchell), I've never really had it in for Philadelphia. They care deeply, show up in good times and in bad, and hate New York's teams just as you say. The Gritty mascot memes around the 2020 election were choice. Their city is a perfectly nice place that gets condescended to all the time ("It's like a baby new york!") and I think we can find some common cause with them there. They've never stolen away one of our sports legends*.

I didn't grow up with the 1980s basketball rivalry, I'm sure it's easier to hate if one did, but in my lifetime the Celtics have won all 5 playoff series with them. We did get 2004 Yankees'd by the Flyers in 2010 (coughed up a 3-0 series lead), but that was a year before the Bs won it all, and I don't remember them being unforgivable goons on the ice at the time. But we've had a bunch of memorable games against them - Labor Day 2003, anyone? - and I haven't been left super bitter about any of them. Would I have preferred we win the 2017 Super Bowl? Sure, but you couldn't say they didn't earn it, I've seen 4 Pats SB losses and that was by far the least infuriating.

Go Phils.


* I guess we took Lefty Grove from them? This is all pretty thin grist for a hate mill - I mean, Chris Long? Maybe?

 

[Murderer's Crow]

If the Astros lose this world series and their only win over the last 6 years is the cheating year, how does that impact your opinion of their franchise? There's been some silly but fun radio talk about how the Astros, if they lose to Philly, are chokers. 4 World Series in 6 years, 1 win with a big asterisk and 2 ALCS losses.

All this talk of "mini dynasty" makes we wonder if the real story will wind up being that they can't close the deal.

 

[54thMA]

Sidetrack a bit, but trading Betts was a decision that, IMO is not made by a GM alone. This was a case where someone higher up said "we are not apying more than X amount" and knowing that, the decision was made to trade him.

I agree that it was wrong to trade him, but I do not think that if Dombrowski stays, so does Betts.

Understood and you are 100% correct, it was not Bloom's decision to trade Betts, but it happened on his watch, so shit flows downhill.

 

[DeadlySplitter]

Looks like Phillies will flip-flop Wheeler & Nola, giving Wheeler 5 days' rest (stats bear out he's been lights out on extra rest this season) while limiting Nola's rest to 9 days (maybe he threw a big pen on Monday or something?))

View: https://twitter.com/CSeidmanNBCS/status/1584986085213753345

 

[InstaFace]

If the Astros lose this world series and their only win over the last 6 years is the cheating year, how does that impact your opinion of their franchise? There's been some silly but fun radio talk about how the Astros, if they lose to Philly, are chokers. 4 World Series in 6 years, 1 win with a big asterisk and 2 ALCS losses.

All this talk of "mini dynasty" makes we wonder if the real story will wind up being that they can't close the deal.

I dunno, not very. Building a team that can go to 6 straight ALCSs in today's draft and competitive-balance environment (which isn't the same as the salary caps in the NFL or NHL, but it ain't the old days of MLB either), is a tremendous achievement. It wasn't that long ago that John Henry was talking about building a team that will go to the postseason 8 out of any given 10 years, and then "anything can happen in a short series".

I don't buy into narratives around postseason performance in baseball the way I do in basketball and the NFL, because the frequency with which a better team beats a worse team is so much less consistent. You look at the spread of winning percentages in each league, the best NBA teams are topping .700 WPCT, the best NFL teams even more so (14-2 is an 0.875 WPCT). In baseball, if you win 60% of your games (98 wins), your team almost certainly wins the division, might well be the top seed in your league. The margins are finer and the statistical chaos that much more, well, chaotic. Yeah, managers can make better or worse tactical decisions in-game, players can have bad individual moments, but ultimately I still view the MLB playoffs as a crapshoot.

The Astros during this run have won 6/6 ALDSes (in 4, 3, 5, 4, 4 and 3), 4/6 ALCSes (in 7, 5L, 6, 7L, 6 and 4), and 1/3 WS (7W, 7L, 6L). That's still winning 11/15 coin flips against peer or near-peer teams, plus sweeping a wild-card series along the way. The coincidental distribution of those coin flips so that they happen to result in a championship, or in an excruciating WS loss, seems like no more than chance, to me.

Cheating in 2017 or not, they've built and kept together an incredible and exciting core of players. Hats off to them. Now I hope Philly drags them around the field for 4 games.

 

[DeadlySplitter]

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

I have only heard of 2 of them. I think that's a good thing

 

[Ale Xander]

Sidetrack a bit, but trading Betts was a decision that, IMO is not made by a GM alone. This was a case where someone higher up said "we are not apying more than X amount" and knowing that, the decision was made to trade him.

I agree that it was wrong to trade him, but I do not think that if Dombrowski stays, so does Betts.

Trading Betts was perhaps not his decision true, but the proceeds lay squarely on him

 

[Mueller's Twin Grannies]

I have only heard of 2 of them. I think that's a good thing

Heard of Hoye, Iassogna, and Barksdale. Gibson and Baker sound familiar. I think Baker might be one of the better young umps out there, if I'm thinking of the right guy. Don't know Porter or Hoberg, who hopefully does not have to see the field.

 

[trekfan55]

Understood and you are 100% correct, it was not Bloom's decision to trade Betts, but it happened on his watch, so shit flows downhill.

I agree that it's under his watch, but the point is that Betts would have been traded regardless of who was at GM. Whether they made the right decision in letting Dombrowski go or even in hiring Bloom remains to be seen.

Trading Betts was perhaps not his decision true, but the proceeds lay squarely on him

On that we can agree. It is disappointing to see those returns (and the constant remarks about payroll flexibility to boot). That being said, trading for prospects is always a risk.

 

[Yelling At Clouds]

Sorry, do we not have enough places to discuss the Mookie trade? Neither he nor the Red Sox are in the 2022 WS.

 

[trekfan55]

Apologies. Guess I am bored with no baseball on schedule for almost the entire week.