Phelps and Prado to the Marlins

MakMan44

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Yankees would get Eovaldi and Garrett Jones
 
https://twitter.com/flasportsbuzz/status/546004109418299392
 
 https://twitter.com/JackCurryYES/status/546004390881292288
 

jon abbey

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https://twitter.com/Joelsherman1/status/546008787031949313
 

Hee Sox Choi

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This is a dumb trade for the Marlins.  I don't get it.  Isn't McGehee a perfectly acceptable 3B?  How much better would Prado be at 10 mil or whatever?  Eovaldi seems like the prize in this trade.  Am I missing something on the Marlins side?
 
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We're talking about this now at work, I like the trade for the pitcher the Yanks are getting.  A 24 year old who saw an increase in his K/BB ratio to 3.30, pitched 200 innings, had a 3.37 FIP (3.78 xFIP) and was a 3 fWAR player.  Could be catching someone who is just entering his prime and making the right adjustments.
 
But this is all just baseball reference and fangraphs musings.  Anyone have a scouting report?  He pretty consistently has a mid 6 K-rate, in the NL, why isn't he striking out more if he has a power arm?  Is it a RDLR fastball?  One that touches upper 90's but doesn't get swings and misses?  Don't know a lot about the guy.
 

jon abbey

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Eovaldi has had trouble harnessing his stuff, but is still just 24 (25 in February). He was the centerpiece of Miami's side of the Hanley Ramirez trade to LA in 2012, and led all of MLB in FB velocity in 2013, just ahead of Gerrit Cole. 
 

jon abbey

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HillysLastWalk said:
But this is all just baseball reference and fangraphs musings.  Anyone have a scouting report?  He pretty consistently has a mid 6 K-rate, in the NL, why isn't he striking out more if he has a power arm?  Is it a RDLR fastball?  One that touches upper 90's but doesn't get swings and misses?  Don't know a lot about the guy.
 
I just read the BP annual writeups on him for the last two years, he has trouble getting people to swing at pitches out of the strike zone. 
 

jon abbey

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Also I like Prado (everyone likes Prado), but he was only under contract for 2015 and then would have been/will be a pricy/semi-pricy FA.
 

RedOctober3829

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jon abbey said:
 
I just read the BP annual writeups on him for the last two years, he has trouble getting people to swing at pitches out of the strike zone. 
The Yankees must see something in his mechanics that they think they can fix.  I like the deal for NYY.  Means any chance of Kuroda coming back is gone.
 

jon abbey

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RedOctober3829 said:
The Yankees must see something in his mechanics that they think they can fix.  I like the deal for NYY.  Means any chance of Kuroda coming back is gone.
 
I'm not so sure about the Kuroda part, they moved Phelps in the same deal and also freed up some money (although now it's being reported they sent some money to Miami in the deal too).
 
Eovaldi had the 4th highest average FB speed in MLB last year:

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=pit&lg=all&qual=y&type=4&season=2014&month=0&season1=2014&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=4,d
 

foulkehampshire

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jon abbey said:
Eovaldi has had trouble harnessing his stuff, but is still just 24 (25 in February). He was the centerpiece of Miami's side of the Hanley Ramirez trade to LA in 2012, and led all of MLB in FB velocity in 2013, just ahead of Gerrit Cole. 
 
Eovaldi has good control evidenced by a low walk rate, but his command needs to be immaculate for him to succeed due to a lack of a quality 3rd pitch. The velocity will play up against weaker lineups, but he's quite vulnerable because hitters will just sit on the fastball if he can't get the slider over for strikes. 
 

Bowlerman9

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jon abbey said:
Also I like Prado (everyone likes Prado), but he was only under contract for 2015 and then would have been/will be a pricy/semi-pricy FA.
 
He was signed for 2015 and 2016.
 

Hee Sox Choi

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It seems when Cashman makes a trade, he's usually on the winning or slightly-winning side?  I'm just basing this on memory/gut, so I wanted to ask you guys, is that true?  
 

ehaz

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When you peel away the ownership forced signings (like Soriano), moves like this are how Cashman earns his money.  Not looking forward to seeing Eovaldi develop in pinstripes.
 

Doctor G

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Eovaldi had a pretty significant innings jump last year. i guess the Yankees don't believe in the Verducci effect anymore.
 

Phranchise

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Hee Sox Choi said:
It seems when Cashman makes a trade, he's usually on the winning or slightly-winning side?  I'm just basing this on memory/gut, so I wanted to ask you guys, is that true?
Pretty much. Look at his trades last year - gave up Nuno (lol) for McCarthy, who just got $48M. Gave up O'Brien for Prado. Gave up Solarte for Headley.
 

benhogan

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Like this move by the Yanks and they still should go after Kuroda.  
 
Any chance they see Eovaldi, with his arm/fastball, as a shutdown reliever?
 

DBB23

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I liked the flexibility Prado gave the Yankees but the Yankees got 2 live arms in the deal and 200 inning 24 year olds are hard to come by, and Jones will do well with the short porch. Question is are the Yankees really committing to a rookie at second base or does this mean they think or know they have a high bid out on Jung-Ho Kang?
 
*editing for grammar
 

Trlicek's Whip

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If Eovaldi can find a strikeout pitch he'll ace quickly based on his stuff and peripherals.
 
Not sure how changing parks helps or hinders his stuff beyond "if he gives up volume hits again some of those are going to be home runs."  [I never know where to look for park factors and don't want to trot out "short porch lol" as a data point without really knowing. 
 

hbk72777

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Hee Sox Choi said:
It seems when Cashman makes a trade, he's usually on the winning or slightly-winning side?  I'm just basing this on memory/gut, so I wanted to ask you guys, is that true?  
 
 
He's one of the better GM's at finding diamonds in the rough.
 
The only bad trades I can remember were Choate, Johnson and Rivera  for Vasquez (Then they gave up Melky to get him again in '10, but at least got Logan). Contreras for Loaiza was another dud, but no one can blame the for giving up on Jose. And the Mike Lowell trade
 
But the Swisher and Pineda trades were gems. Kerry Wood in '10, Abreu and Lidle for a bag of balls, getting Chacon in 05 etc
 

jon abbey

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Bowlerman9 said:
 
He was signed for 2015 and 2016.
 
Whoops, thanks.
 
Yeah, spinning Pete O'Brien for two months of Prado and then adding Phelps for this deal seems like a very nice pair of moves. 
 

jon abbey

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https://twitter.com/Garrett_GIJones/status/546063715054145536
 

Plympton91

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This is an awesome trade for the Yankees. I have no idea at all what the Marlins would be thinking here. Dammit.
 

jon abbey

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Domingo German, the prospect NY got in this deal, pitched a 1/2/3 inning in the Futures game last summer, striking out Kris Bryant (95 MPH FB) and Joey Gallo (83 MPH change) back to back.
 
Cashman says he'll start next year in high A ball at Tampa, which is a bit surprising since he pitched at that level all of last year and did quite well, but I assume he'll move up quickly if merited.
 
http://www.milb.com/player/index.jsp?sid=milb&player_id=593334#/career/R/pitching/2014/ALL
 

jon abbey

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If you look at this like Peter O'Brien for Domingo German (prospect for prospect) and Phelps for Eovaldi (SP for SP), both of those look like nice moves for NY.
 
Plus NY got Garrett Jones for $6M in cash over two seasons (not counting his $5M salary), meaning they will actually have someone capable of playing 1B on the roster this year besides Tex.
 

Hoplite

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I brought this up when the Yankees acquired McCarthy and Headley and got a "well a broken clock is right twice a day response", and that's probably still the case. But I continue to wonder if the Yankees are starting to put more stock in sabermetrics. Eovaldi doesn't have a great ERA, he doesn't have a great strikeout rate or a top notch groundball rate, he has a career WHIP of 1.38. However, the last three years his xFIP has gone from 4.56 to 4.15 to 3.78 and his SIERA has gone from 4.74 to 4.36 to 3.91.
 

YankeesIsrael

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jon abbey said:
Domingo German, the prospect NY got in this deal, pitched a 1/2/3 inning in the Futures game last summer, striking out Kris Bryant (95 MPH FB) and Joey Gallo (83 MPH change) back to back.
 
Cashman says he'll start next year in high A ball at Tampa, which is a bit surprising since he pitched at that level all of last year and did quite well, but I assume he'll move up quickly if merited.
 
http://www.milb.com/player/index.jsp?sid=milb&player_id=593334#/career/R/pitching/2014/ALL
 
But he is moving up - From the South Atlantic league (low A) to the Florida State League (high A).
 

derekson

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Hoplite said:
I brought this up when the Yankees acquired McCarthy and Headley and got a "well a broken clock is right twice a day response", and that's probably still the case. But I continue to wonder if the Yankees are starting to put more stock in sabermetrics. Eovaldi doesn't have a great ERA, he doesn't have a great strikeout rate or a top notch groundball rate, he has a career WHIP of 1.38. However, the last three years his xFIP has gone from 4.56 to 4.15 to 3.78 and his SIERA has gone from 4.74 to 4.36 to 3.91.
 
You could just as easily say their scouting department loves Eovaldi as a hard thrower with the potential to add a third pitch and become a front end starter. It's hard to assume the justification behind an acquisition.
 

jon abbey

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Yeah, there are definite issues here, his FB seems to be very straight and none of his other pitches are especially great. Obviously NY thinks they can work with him to get better, and it is kind of crazy he's done as well as he has given those issues. The first thing seems to be to stop throwing his change entirely, it's his fourth best pitch. 
 

Hoplite

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derekson said:
 
You could just as easily say their scouting department loves Eovaldi as a hard thrower with the potential to add a third pitch and become a front end starter. It's hard to assume the justification behind an acquisition.
 
Yeah, like I said who knows. It's just something I've found curious lately but could easily be a coincidence.
 

DBB23

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On MLB Network discussing the trade. I believe it was Ron Darling that said Eovaldi was developing a splitter. The Yankees feel they have the best Splitter in MLB with Tanaka and that could be the missing swing and miss pitch for Eovaldi. Guess we will see in a couple of months.
 

DBB23

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Yes that was what Darling was implying that he could learn from Tanaka. Cafardo also had a column either today or yesterday where Salty said he thinks Eovaldi has not even scratched the surface of what he can do. He also said Eovaldi had developed a new pitch towards the end of last season he didn't specify what the pitch as but from Darlings comment I assume its the splitter.
 
Its going to be an interesting spring with all the new bodies on just about every team. Do not remember another offseason where this many players have changed teams.
 

derekson

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DBB23 said:
Yes that was what Darling was implying that he could learn from Tanaka. Cafardo also had a column either today or yesterday where Salty said he thinks Eovaldi has not even scratched the surface of what he can do. He also said Eovaldi had developed a new pitch towards the end of last season he didn't specify what the pitch as but from Darlings comment I assume its the splitter.
 
Its going to be an interesting spring with all the new bodies on just about every team. Do not remember another offseason where this many players have changed teams.
 
Yeah this has been an incredibly active offseason, and there's still a lot of time left and a bunch of guys that look like they'll ultimately be traded that are still on their 2014 teams. The Red Sox will probably trade at least one of Craig, Victorino and Nava if not two of them. The Phillies will be trading one of more of Byrd, Hamels, Lee, Utley, and Ruiz (and possibly all of them). Hell I'm sure they'd love to move Howard too, if they can find anyone who wants to roster him even if the Phils eat his contract. The Rockies could still move Gonzalez and/or Tulowitzski.
 
By the time ST comes around, it feels like almost every team in MLB will have a significantly reshuffled roster. It seems like the Yankees could be one of the least active teams in the offseason for the first time in a long time though. This trade is pretty much the biggest move they've made, and while it looks like a good move by Cashman it's hardly anyone's idea of a major offseason move.
 

Wingack

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I think he is making moves with the future in mind by staying away from long-term deals to aging stars and acquiring young cheaper players that haven't yet hit their peaks. I approve this strategy.
 

jon abbey

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derekson said:
 
It seems like the Yankees could be one of the least active teams in the offseason for the first time in a long time though. This trade is pretty much the biggest move they've made, and while it looks like a good move by Cashman it's hardly anyone's idea of a major offseason move.
 
More active than I expected, especially if you consider that the reshaping started last trading deadline. They were locked into multi-year deals at many positions and couldn't really afford to give up any potential impact prospects, so given those restrictions, I think Cashman has done well.
 

EvilEmpire

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Whether they get him or not, I think the Yankees will remind everyone they are still around when they make a big play for Moncada.