PGA Championship at Bellerive

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Deathofthebambino

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Tiger's combined score of 130 on the weekend (66-64) is the lowest in the history of the PGA championship since it went to stroke play in 1958. He's back.
 

The Needler

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I think Phil is a lock. Guys like Tiger and Phil, as alltime greats, if they’re in the top 12 points-wise, hey have to be in., no matter whether they’re hot or cold coming in. (Also, Phil is #7 on the PGA tour money list among Americans this year. He’s worthy even without being Phil Mickelson.)

I’m a huge Tiger fan, but happy for Koepka. While they are physically similar in that they’re athletically elite among golfers, I like how different they are in attitude. While Winning golf tournaments is everything to Tiger, you get the feeling that Brooks doesn’t even like golf that much. But he obviously puts the work in, is everwordly talented, and cool as a cucumber. It’s really amazing how many multiple major winner and hall of fame locks are active and competitive right now. Great time for golf.
 
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Zomp

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While Winning golf tournaments is everything to Tiger, you get the feeling that Brooks doesn’t even like golf that much.

He has said as much in interviews. He finds golf boring. He'd rather play baseball or basketball but I believe he got hurt as a kid and discovered he had a talent for golf when he couldn't play contact sports one summer.

Movie star looks, body of a lumberjack, and just happens to be one of the best golfers in the world.

Some guys have all the luck.
 

gtg807y

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I’d go with Kisner over Finau, but think either or Xander would be excellent picks
Forgot about Kisner, but agreed. Certainly a good problem to have. Forget where I heard it recently, someone said a 12 v. 12 Ryder Cup is awesome and competitive, but 24 v. 24 would be a US bloodbath.
 

cshea

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I kinda like Finau for 1 of of the picks. He’s a bomber and is 14th on tour in birdie percentage and has made the 2nd most eagles on tour this year (caveat that he plays almost every week and thus has played a ton of rounds and had more eagle opportunities). 8 top 10’s, 3 in majors this season so he has played well on a big stage.

That would leave the final spot between Xander, Kisner, Kuchar, Bryson. Bryson seems to have a lobbyist in Tiger which will help his chances big time. I’m not too enthused, but I could see Bryson being another Poulter-like fiery guy in the team competitions. Kuchar has experience, and seems to be a “good in the room” guy. Pretty poor form of late, 4 MC’s in his last 6 starts, albeit with a top 10 at the Open. I like Xander, but having no experience may work against him. He’s a grinder, only 2 missed cuts this season and performed well at both Open’s. Kisner would be a Ryder Cup rookie as well, but he got his team competition feet wet at the Presidents Cup last year and paired well with Mickelson. Never a bad thing taking an excellent putter along, even if he’s not a bomber.
 

Clears Cleaver

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Well, you know Rahm isn’t playing with DJ on the team. Lol

I was told the French course hosting is short, narrow and with crazy rough.
 

PaulinMyrBch

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This was really unusual for Tiger. Normally he wins (contends) in majors from the lead, as a front runner. If his game was on, he could literally play conservative golf and usually hold off all challengers. If his game was off and he wasn’t in the last group, he usually couldn’t mount a charge. That IMO is why his second place finishes compared to Jack is much lower.

So what we saw yesterday, Tiger charging from behind when he could barely find the fairway, was really unusual. Normally those drives net him a 70-74, but he was going for everything and somehow managed his lowest final round in a major ever. I can’t recall seeing him score so well with such a horrible tee game. Take Brooks out of the equation and replaced him with someone who would have been effected by the roars one hole ahead and Tiger probably wins. So what Brooks did is truly remarkable and shouldn’t be overlooked. But Tiger playing that way, aggressive style, scoring when he didn’t have his A or B swing, was really something we don’t see very often. Really cool major weekend.
 

TFP

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Take Brooks out of the equation and replaced him with someone who would have been effected by the roars one hole ahead and Tiger probably wins. So what Brooks did is truly remarkable and shouldn’t be overlooked..
I think one difference is that Tiger wasn't his major challenger throughout the round, he was more focused on his playing partner until the very end. So while the roars were definitely out there, he just focused on outplaying Scott, which I think helped him. Either way, incredibly impressive round from Koepka, he is just a machine in these majors. I'm a big fan.
 

johnmd20

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Final round ratings were up 69% from 2017.

The Tiger Effect is really something special.
 

FL4WL3SS

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Put Tiger in the final group with Koepka and I think the result is different. What TFP said is spot on.

You think Brooks comes back from back to back bogies with Tiger breathing down his neck instead of Scott? Less likely.
 

Petey

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[QUOTE="You think Brooks comes back from back to back bogies with Tiger breathing down his neck instead of Scott? "[/QUOTE]

I think so. The roars of the crowd, it would have been impossible for him to tune out what was going on. The guy is a cold blooded champion. This was going to happen. A 28 year old buck comes along and is not scared. He can look at that red shirt and think, "old man, I am better than him."
 

FL4WL3SS

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That may be so, but being in Tigers group brings a distinct kind of crazy that not everyone is prepared for. Of course we may never know, but it was definitely more beneficial to be in Scott's group behind Tiger.

For starters the crowd was more low key and secondly he could monitor everything Tiger was doing.
 

Petey

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Agreed, we may never know. Pat Garrett was asked if he was nervous when he shot and killed Billy the Kid. “No”, he answered, “A fellow with nerves wouldn’t last long in the business I’m in.” Brooks doesn't appear to be a fellow with nerves.
 

Phragle

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It's not necessarily the nerves as much as the distraction.

I do agree though, Brooks looks unflappable.
Seems that way until you're in the final group with Tiger and there are 10 thousand people within spitting distance and they all want you to fail. Brooks probably should be scared of Tiger. He is better than Tiger right now, but playing with Scott made it easier for him. If he hit a couple more good drivers we probably aren't creating hypotheticals tho.
 

Deathofthebambino

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Even when Tiger was at his peak, he would have rounds where his driver was erratic. He was longer than the rest of the field, comparatively speaking, back then, but what separated Tiger from the rest was that he was the greatest golfer in the world from 150 or so yards in. That's what we saw again yesterday, and that's what has me so excited to see what he does next. When he's hitting his short irons, chipping and putting the way he did yesterday, he can score from anywhere. He missed every fairway on the front 9, bogeyed one of the par 3's, and still shot -2. He made par on the only par 5 on the back, and still shot -4. At one point, I think he had 7 consecutive one putts (i haven't checked, but I'm guessing he had less than 25 putts yesterday). That's vintage Tiger.

The shot he had back then, and doesn't seem to have right now is the 3 wood stinger off the tee. When Tiger couldn't hit his driver, he'd put it back in his bag, forget about it and just stripe 3 woods down the middle of the fairway 280+ yards. If he can find that shot again, or maybe do the same with a driving iron, and only have to pull out driver 4-5 times a round....Be ready world.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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Yeah I think that’s all pretty accurate. His yardage control on his approaches yesterday was phenomenal. It seemed like almost every one that he didn’t miss left or right was pin high, many from bad lies. I also agree he’s missing the stinger. It was kind of baffling to see him go Driver or 2 iron on every hole when he seemed to be having trouble with both. I’m wondering if he just hasn’t found a good build on the new TM gear yet.

And yes, he had 24 putts and easily could have been 21. I know it can be said for any player if you see every shot, but the putts on 1/11/14 he really did get robbed on to an extent.

Were I a competition, the biggest thing that would scare me would be his finishing shot and the emotion he showed. Old Tiger would have never been that fired up to hit a putt he knew wasn’t going to win anything. But just the way he was fired up told me he has his mojo back. He’s not worried about his limitations anymore. That’s gotta he a little scary.
 

ConigliarosPotential

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My summary of this thread:

Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger

(other golfers on Thursday and Friday)

Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger

(the course isn't great)
(why am I watching Phil?)

Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger

(Koepka)

Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger TIGER TIGER TIGER Tiger Tiger Tiger TIGER! TIGER! TIGER! TIGER!!! TIGER!!! TIGER!!! TIGER!!! Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger TIGER TIGER TIGER!

(Koepka sucks and we hate him)

Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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My summary of this thread:

Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger

(other golfers on Thursday and Friday)

Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger

(the course isn't great)
(why am I watching Phil?)

Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger

(Koepka)

Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger TIGER TIGER TIGER Tiger Tiger Tiger TIGER! TIGER! TIGER! TIGER!!! TIGER!!! TIGER!!! TIGER!!! Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger TIGER TIGER TIGER!

(Koepka sucks and we hate him)

Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger Tiger
And it...was...AWESOME!
 

Zomp

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If anything I'm rooting for Tiger even more next year just to go up Conigliaros ass.


I do not think Koepka loses if he's paired with Tiger. After winning two US Opens he's proved he has the mettle to compete. I realize playing with Tiger is a different game but I'd actually think he'd relish it.

I'm actually waiting for the day that Tiger is in the last group with a young stud. A Spieth, Brooks, JT, etc... I actually think they'll rise to the occasion. Someone said it up thread but I agree. They'll say to themselves "You had your time old man, It's my turn".

and it should make for great TV.
 

cshea

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Tiger’s ball striking has been insanely good all year. His week at the Memorial was something like his best statistical ball striking week he’s ever had, he just couldn’t hit a putt to save his life (and that was the last time we saw the Scotty).

His rankings:

Strokes gained off the tee: 127th
Strokes gained approach: 4th
Proximity to the hole from the fairway: T17
Strokes gained around the green: 9th
Total strokes gained tee to green: 6th
Strokes gained putting: 31st

If/when he figures out a way to just be average and not lose shots off the tee, he’ll win and he’ll win a lot. Bellerive kinda requires the driver, as he said many times “Brooksy is out there 340 and in the middle” so he was trying to keep up. The course played long and soft so the stingers weren’t getting the same run out they normally would. Even as good as his ball striking is, it is hard to win hitting approaches in from 200+ when the guy you are chasing is hitting 9 irons and wedges all day. The leaderboard ended up mostly being bombers. Cink ended up really being the only non-bomber in the mix.
 

ConigliarosPotential

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If anything I'm rooting for Tiger even more next year just to go up Conigliaros ass.
I'm so, so out of step with SoSH when it comes to golf, to the point that I'm probably done commenting about golf here or even reading the golf forums. (Don't worry - I'm not under any presumption that I would be missed.) You guys had me actually rooting for Koepka to win on Sunday, which I never thought would happen.

@johnmd20 noted yesterday that the final round TV ratings were up 69% from the PGA Championship in 2017. Does that difference basically encompass the difference between golf fans and Tiger fans, or at least split out the subset of golf fans that are just as interested in golf when Tiger isn't involved? Because I am just as interested in golf tournaments and major championships when Tiger isn't playing, or isn't playing well, as I am when he's near the leaderboard. I watch professional golf because I'm interested in professional golf and have been since I was a small boy, not because it's cool or popular or because one particular golfer happens to be on the leaderboard. In fact, if Tiger's career were to end today, and golf were to become significantly less popular over the next 20-30 years, I'm struggling to think of how my enjoyment of the sport both as a player and a spectator wouldn't be positively affected. Obviously I wouldn't get to view the spectacle of Tiger as his career moves through its autumn towards winter, and perhaps one or more "Nicklaus at the 1986 Masters"-type moments of glorious theater, which is what I suspect many of you were clamoring for on Sunday. But against that, with fewer fans watching the game and fewer people taking it up, you'd have fewer loudmouth fans yelling out stupidities at tournaments, fewer golfers competing for tee times, and less money in the game as a whole - which would mean less money spent on over-watering and over-maintaining golf courses (leading to more courses conditioned to be firmer, faster and rough-and-ready, in the way I like more), less money spent by equipment companies (slowing down the technological arms race which is making the professional game less interesting and making more and more old-style courses of the type I love obsolescent), and less prize money for the pros (making life on Tour a little bit less lavish and maybe a little bit more like it was during the 20th Century).

That's my purely selfish, curmudgeonly perspective - which isn't the only way I think about golf or any other sport, of course. I read every response in the other thread I started about Tiger, and I appreciate that many of you became interested in golf because of Tiger, and I don't mean to diminish your appreciation for Tiger or imply in any way that anyone's enjoyment of golf is less pure than mine in some way. I did find the semi-joking hatred of Koepka on Sunday a bit much, and the constant Tiger takes are too hot for my liking. But that's what SoSH's golf discussions are like. So be it. It's OK to be different.
 

kenneycb

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That's a lot of words to say that you think you're a better golf fan than most here. Tiger quite objectively made golf cool. People like cheering exclusively for him because of that connection, something that hasn't come close to anyone else on Tour. You don't have that connection but I'm not sure why you are turning your nose up at those that do. And then the martyrdom at the end is a bit much.
 

MillarTime

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I do not think Koepka loses if he's paired with Tiger. After winning two US Opens he's proved he has the mettle to compete. I realize playing with Tiger is a different game but I'd actually think he'd relish it.
Agree 100%
 

johnmd20

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That's a lot of words to say that you think you're a better golf fan than most here. Tiger quite objectively made golf cool. People like cheering exclusively for him because of that connection, something that hasn't come close to anyone else on Tour. You don't have that connection but I'm not sure why you are turning your nose up at those that do. And then the martyrdom at the end is a bit much.
I'm not even quoting his post because it's so horrendous, but it really is a breathtakingly large number of words to say absolutely nothing.

Tiger is a force of nature. When he was at his peak, he was the best player in the history of sports, relative to his competition. And a year ago he could barely walk. To pretend he's not different isn't contrarian or hip or cool, it's stupid and obnoxious.

And I watch every major tournament almost religiously. I don't have kids, so I can watch as much as I want. I always want a jam packed leaderboard. If Tiger isn't in it, it doesn't detract from the experience. I'm IN either way.

But when he's in it, it certainly enhances the experience. There is nothing wrong with acknowledging how different things are with Tiger in the mix.
 

cshea

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Tiger was one of 3-4 players who had a legitimate chance to win the golf tournament on the back 9. We’re we not supposed to talked about that? Or is it just the rooting for him, which was pretty well explained in the other thread?
 

The Napkin

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That's a lot of words to say that you think you're a better golf fan than most here. Tiger quite objectively made golf cool. People like cheering exclusively for him because of that connection, something that hasn't come close to anyone else on Tour. You don't have that connection but I'm not sure why you are turning your nose up at those that do. And then the martyrdom at the end is a bit much.
And yet he doesn’t love golf enough to follow the rules.
That was him, right? The guy who carried too many clubs but didn’t think it was worth taking the penalty? Then came looking for affirmation? And got pissy when he was called out on it?
 

johnmd20

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Tiger was one of 3-4 players who had a legitimate chance to win the golf tournament on the back 9. We’re we not supposed to talked about that? Or is it just the rooting for him, which was pretty well explained in the other thread?
Hey cshea, how DARE you root for the most compelling golfer of all time, in a major, one shot off the lead, one year and change after his fourth spinal surgery. The focus should have been on Jason Day.
 

Petey

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I'm so, so out of step with SoSH when it comes to golf, to the point that I'm probably done commenting about golf here or even reading the golf forums. (Don't worry - I'm not under any presumption that I would be missed.) You guys had me actually rooting for Koepka to win on Sunday, which I never thought would happen.
@johnmd20

Well, you were my favorite contributor here. Your posts were very entertaining, truly splendid. I'm certain there are many others that greatly enjoyed your posts. I understand your sentiments on this. Some of the Woods fan boy posts were embarrassing (e.g. did Brooks just take an oral HGH?). Most of the posters here are quite good, the noise from the Woods cheering section can drown that out at times.
 

The Needler

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It’s a pretty common response among golf “purists.” It’s one of the reasons why so many fans and professionals alike rooted against Tiger when he was coming up. They didn’t like the “element” he brought to the game. It’s pure, unabashed, snobbery, if not outright racism and classism - explicitly saying they’d rather have golf courses and equipment be worse, tournaments be less-funded and less-attended, and the game be less participated in. Our little secret - no hot polloi need apply.

“I’d like a return to the way golf was in the 20th century” literally means a return to the game being almost exclusively accessible to rich, white, men. Make Golf Great Again.
 

ConigliarosPotential

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The responses to my post and the nonsense many of you read into it - everything from racism to martyrdom to saying that I'm a better golf fan than you are (when I specifically said the opposite) - would seem to indicate that I'm making the right decision not to participate in golf-related discussions here. If you can't agree with "It's OK to be different" and want to INSIST that I have to love Tiger Woods to be a golf fan, then what else is there to say?
 

cshea

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That seems like a straw man. Point me to where anyone INSISTED you love Tiger Woods? We told you why we liked him, but you don’t seem satisfied.
 

The Needler

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Of course, not a single person has insisted (in all-caps or standard punctuation) that you must love or even like Tiger Woods.

If you don’t want to listen to the perspective that you’re an elitist snob for saying you’d like a return to “the way golf used to be” (after blaming Tiger for its development into what it is) or that you cheat at golf when you tell us that you cheat at golf, then yes, you’re probably making the right decision.
 

Average Reds

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The responses to my post and the nonsense many of you read into it - everything from racism to martyrdom to saying that I'm a better golf fan than you are (when I specifically said the opposite) - would seem to indicate that I'm making the right decision not to participate in golf-related discussions here. If you can't agree with "It's OK to be different" and want to INSIST that I have to love Tiger Woods to be a golf fan, then what else is there to say?
Thinking that anyone is telling you that you must like and/or root for Tiger Woods seems to be a highly inaccurate reading of this thread. Thinking that you are being called out for your yearning for a sense of golf purity that never actually existed in the first place is probably a more accurate reading.

You have every right to enjoy golf from whatever perspective works for you. Insisting that we treat that perspective with some sort of reverence is silly.
 

The Napkin

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If you can't agree with "It's OK to be different" and want to INSIST that I have to love Tiger Woods to be a golf fan, then what else is there to say?
It's literally the opposite of this.

Hell, you're the guy that insisted he wasn't going to watch on the weekend because of the course it was being played at.
 

Phragle

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The shot he had back then, and doesn't seem to have right now is the 3 wood stinger off the tee. When Tiger couldn't hit his driver, he'd put it back in his bag, forget about it and just stripe 3 woods down the middle of the fairway 280+ yards. If he can find that shot again, or maybe do the same with a driving iron, and only have to pull out driver 4-5 times a round....Be ready world.
I thought he had his stinger when he came back. He was hitting it in the Bahamas, and then suddenly is was just gone. Now the stinger is a 2 iron and it's just not the same. Hopefully in the offseason he gets his woods working.

I'm actually waiting for the day that Tiger is in the last group with a young stud. A Spieth, Brooks, JT, etc... I actually think they'll rise to the occasion. Someone said it up thread but I agree. They'll say to themselves "You had your time old man, It's my turn".
I think we saw Tiger's effect on Spieth at the British even when they weren't in the same group. BK seems pretty chill, but I don't think Spieth or JT are elevating their play in that situation.

Tiger’s ball striking has been insanely good all year. His week at the Memorial was something like his best statistical ball striking week he’s ever had, he just couldn’t hit a putt to save his life (and that was the last time we saw the Scotty).

His rankings:

Strokes gained off the tee: 127th
Strokes gained approach: 4th
Proximity to the hole from the fairway: T17
Strokes gained around the green: 9th
Total strokes gained tee to green: 6th
Strokes gained putting: 31st

If/when he figures out a way to just be average and not lose shots off the tee, he’ll win and he’ll win a lot. Bellerive kinda requires the driver, as he said many times “Brooksy is out there 340 and in the middle” so he was trying to keep up. The course played long and soft so the stingers weren’t getting the same run out they normally would. Even as good as his ball striking is, it is hard to win hitting approaches in from 200+ when the guy you are chasing is hitting 9 irons and wedges all day. The leaderboard ended up mostly being bombers. Cink ended up really being the only non-bomber in the mix.
Are the strokes gained stats independent of each other? Is he really the 31st best putter or is it really worse than that because his approach shots are so good?
 

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@johnmd20

Well, you were my favorite contributor here. Your posts were very entertaining, truly splendid. I'm certain there are many others that greatly enjoyed your posts. I understand your sentiments on this. Some of the Woods fan boy posts were embarrassing (e.g. did Brooks just take an oral HGH?). Most of the posters here are quite good, the noise from the Woods cheering section can drown that out at times.
I'll echo this and ask that you reconsider. I'm a Tiger fan but appreciate the perspective and wealth of knowledge that you bring. Don't let the instant criticism get you down. You have readers here who appreciate what you bring to the table.
 

kenneycb

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He's not claiming to leave because of criticism. He's claiming to leave because he has different professional golf consumption and cheering/discussion habits (which I and others interpreted as more faux-sophisticated habits) that don't align with the broader SoSH population. Only then did people call him on bullshit and snobbery.
 

Koufax

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Reading this thread probably made him feel like a Yankees fan reading a game thread during a Sox-Yankees game. He dislikes Tiger, a sentiment that I can understand if not share. I don't see his post as either bullshit or snobbery, and the instant accusation of racism was uncalled for.

Having read his book, it is fair to say that he knows a lot about the game. I meant to ask him about his comment about Bellerive, which made it sound as though he had played the course and found it ordinary. Assuming that to be correct, how many here have played that course? Losing him would be unfortunate.
 

ConigliarosPotential

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If not drinking the Tiger Kool-Aid means I'm going to have my posts willfully misread and called "bullshit" (or worse), it seems an awful lot like people are insisting that I love Tiger (or keep quiet). I'm happy to swim against the tide regarding Tiger, but not against a tsunami. And the nature of the golf discussion at SoSH is that there's barely any discussion if Tiger isn't on the prowl. So what's the point?

I came of golfing age in the 1980s and early 1990s. I grew to love golf then not because I was an elitist, racist prick, but because it was a way to spend time with my (often absent) father, and because professional golf in the 1980s was full of mesmerizing characters. There was real parity between Ballesteros, Norman, Watson, Kite, Strange, Faldo, Lyle, the aging Nicklaus and Floyd, and many others back then, and the run of Masters tournaments from 1986 to 1991 may never be bettered by any six-year run at any major championship for dramatic finishes. 300-yard drives also meant something in the 1980s - that was a massive blow, not the PGA Tour average, and really short hitters like Corey Pavin and Mike Reid could not only survive but also thrive to some extent. (Which matters because of the many wonderful, old school golf courses that have to choose between becoming obsolete and buying up additional land at great expense to add additional length - the game is getting bigger and coarser all the time now.) I read about and thought about golf back then a lot, and I thought I was going to be a golf journalist for a living - and was one for a while. All of this was before Tiger turned pro. And Tiger's first Masters win was the exact opposite of the Masters I loved when I was a teenager between 1986 and 1991, at that age when sport matters most to most people in their lives. Tiger in 1997 was domination, not drama, and it's probably natural that I rebelled against Tiger to some extent. I'd hope, though, that Tiger's ardent fans might try a little harder to understand how someone can massively respect Tiger's career and his current comeback and still find reasons not to root for him.

I know I'm a dinosaur, and few if any SoSHers enjoy golf as I seem to enjoy it - which, again, is perfectly fine by me. So today, after my "Tiger Tiger Tiger" post wasn't received in the mostly jokey manner I'd intended it to be received, I tried to make my peace with that in a valedictory sort of way. But instead, the vitriol I got back...never mind that I disagree with it, it also seemed so un-SoSH-like. Previously, I took a chance and tried to start what I thought would be an interesting discussion about playing by the rules of golf, and that went in a completely different direction (mostly straight back into my face) than I thought it would go. And now my posts today have boomeranged as well. I used to get pretty good feedback about my golf writing, for the most part, but I'm certainly not getting much of that here. Maybe I do just suck at this now. Or maybe I'm just out of step with everyone, like a George HW Bush-era Republican in a room full of Trump supporters. Either way, I don't enjoy being a punching bag.

Quick postscript:
Hell, you're the guy that insisted he wasn't going to watch on the weekend because of the course it was being played at.
I couldn't stay away from the tournament because I'm a golf fan and watching major championships is what I do. But I mostly wish I hadn't bothered - the internet-only Eleven Sports broadcast here in the UK was truly horrendous, mixing randomly between the CBS commentary feed, the world feed (which I didn't know existed), and the UK commentator team (presenter Dominik Holyer and tour pro Jamie Donaldson, along with a man and a woman on the ground at Bellerive) in a very unsatisfactory way, and apparently the desktop feed crashed just before Koepka made the winning putt, so a lot of people missed the end of the tournament. And the new-look Bellerive wasn't terrible, but the standards I expect of major championship venues are way higher than "not terrible".
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
12,690
[QUOTE="You think Brooks comes back from back to back bogies with Tiger breathing down his neck instead of Scott? "
I think so. The roars of the crowd, it would have been impossible for him to tune out what was going on. The guy is a cold blooded champion. This was going to happen. A 28 year old buck comes along and is not scared. He can look at that red shirt and think, "old man, I am better than him."

I think it also has something to do with the sheer length of Tiger's basic absence from the weekly Tour. Except for one or two years, he was at a dozen or fewer tournaments every year since 2007. An entire "generation" (for lack of a better word) of pro players emerged in that time.
In the Tiger era, there were two challenges for new pros: Learning how to win. And learning how to beat Tiger. Both are/were hard. Both at the same time was really hard. Many of the young players now have gotten the "learning how to win" part out of the way. And they've never had to worry about Tiger. I think they respect him, but, as you suggest, young successful confident pro golfers in their 20s also see a balding 42-year old they can outdrive and I think that lessens some of the fear/intimidation they may have felt if they didn't get to build their game up in Tiger's absence.
 
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steveluck7

Member
SoSH Member
May 10, 2007
2,846
Burrillville, RI
And the nature of the golf discussion at SoSH is that there's barely any discussion if Tiger isn't on the prowl. So what's the point?
The volume of discussion certainly goes up when he's playing but there is a fairly active discussion most weeks. We have dedicated threads for every major and Ryder Cup (heck, even president's Cup) and have for a number of years, most of which Tiger has been absent.

There was real parity between Ballesteros, Norman, Watson, Kite, Strange, Faldo, Lyle, the aging Nicklaus and Floyd, and many others back then
And today there's a ton of parity between Dustin Johnson, Jordan Speith, Rory Mcilroy, Justin Thomas, Brooks Koepka, Rickie Fowler; guys who show up a few times a year like Adam Scott and Henrik Stenson; even up and comers like Rahm, and aging guys Like Phil, Sergio, and Tiger

300-yard drives also meant something in the 1980s - that was a massive blow, not the PGA Tour average, and really short hitters like Corey Pavin and Mike Reid could not only survive but also thrive to some extent.
I read this and think that longer drives are a very natural evolution of the game. I would ask you, looking back, how would you have liked the game to evolve? Every sport has. Look at MLB with all of the guys throwing 100 mph, or the NFL with the spread passing attack and the disappearance of the "3 yards and a cloud of dust. To me, PGA tour pros hitting 300 + regularly is a natural evolution.

I'd hope, though, that Tiger's ardent fans might try a little harder to understand how someone can massively respect Tiger's career and his current comeback and still find reasons not to root for him.
You say you massively respect his career yet you have spent a few posts lamenting the way the game is played today. The way it's played today is a direct result of his success. He's the reason the guys are hitting longer, he's the reason tech has exploded, he's the reason the life of a tour pro is luxurious, he's the reason crowds at nearly all PGA events have swollen.

I know I'm a dinosaur, and few if any SoSHers enjoy golf as I seem to enjoy it - which, again, is perfectly fine by me.
How do you enjoy it today? You seem to not like the way any of the young guys play or the way courses have set up (or been forced to set up) Back in '97, you could certainly make a case that you didn't like Tiger because he overpowered the courses / tour and it wasn't as intriguing to you. But today, his style of play is the absolute norm. I get that you miss guys who played when you were young. I know I'll miss watching some of these guys when they get older but the game is what it is today so how do you enjoy it? Do you enjoy watching the web.com type tours? Senior Tours? Ladies tours?
 
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