Peyton Sexual Harrssment way back

koufax32 · Feb 3, 2014

I remember this being discussed here a while back. I want to say it was like 2008 or 2009. Anyone else remember this one?

Koufax · Feb 3, 2014

I remember it. The article places it in 1996 when Peyton was an entitled college QB star. He apparently pulled down his pants and sat on this woman's face. It's an ugly story and Peyton probably lied to minimize it. but it wasn't rape or anything. Just a very stupid, tasteless crude act. Not classy, but it's been almost 20 years and he hasn't had that sort of incident since, as far as I know.

MentalDisabldLst · Feb 4, 2014

As much as I want to sports-hate Peyton Manning, he has given his colleagues in the NFL very few reasons to real-life-hate him. Read the 2nd half of this article, where it discusses Richard Sherman. That's a good definition of being classy at a moment when many people could've forgiven you for being the opposite - and particularly so when you account for who it is who's sticking up for him.

soxfan121 · Feb 4, 2014

Broke the first rule...
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f76_1323277426

Leather · Feb 4, 2014

Are there any other points that he's not a "classy guy"?

I love to dump on Manning as much as the next guy; namely for being a forever-blameless media darling and for shilling shitty products. That being said, as ugly as that particular incident is (and it is something that would get anyone other than a superstar athlete suspended for a semester if not expelled), it was a long time ago, and all it really tells me is that back in his younger days, he was an entitled prick.

I did a lot of stupid, thoughtless, borderline criminal shit when I was 18-20 years old. While it was nothing as egregious as what Manning did, I don't think it would be fair for people to judge the man I am NOW, after I've been married, had kids, and led a generally respectable life for a fair number of years, based on some regrettable incident I did THEN.

He could very well be an entitled prick to this day, I don't know, but I can't say that he definitely is one based on a 20-year old incident.

Reverend · Feb 4, 2014

jose melendez said:
I'm not saying this uniliaterally proves he's not a classy guy and I don't have a shred of other evidence of it. Nor am I looking for reasons to hate him on a human level.

It's just something I remembered, and I could never stop thinking about as he's been heralded as this great aw shucks guy through the years.

Seconded.

As I've posted before, I think he's grown up a lot since then. But this awesome salt of the earth regular Joe guy image was crafted from jump despite evidence to the contrary, and it always bugged me too. It became even weirder when it started to influence how Brady was perceived in public simply by virtue of him becoming Manning's foil and, well, really attractive. So we ended up with this huge public narrative of Brady being seedy because he dated hot women and because Peyton had an accent and was the heir apparent to Favre that flew in the face of the existing evidence at the time of Manning being a douche and potentially worse, while all accounts were that Brady was actually just a sort of boring guy because he's a total football dork.

Yeah, I get that it's media hype bs and nothing new and not surprising, but I still don't have to like it. There's something unsettling about the idea that a lot of people think Brady's a punk simply because he's Manning's foil. It's weird.

Smiling Joe Hesketh · Feb 4, 2014

Reverend said:
Seconded.

As I've posted before, I think he's grown up a lot since then. But this awesome salt of the earth regular Joe guy image was crafted from jump despite evidence to the contrary, and it always bugged me too. It became even weirder when it started to influence how Brady was perceived in public simply by virtue of him becoming Manning's foil and, well, really attractive. So we ended up with this huge public narrative of Brady being seedy because he dated hot women and because Peyton had an accent and was the heir apparent to Favre that flew in the face of the existing evidence at the time of Manning being a douche and potentially worse, while all accounts were that Brady was actually just a sort of boring guy because he's a total football dork.

Yeah, I get that it's media hype bs and nothing new and not surprising, but I still don't have to like it. There's something unsettling about the idea that a lot of people think Brady's a punk simply because he's Manning's foil. It's weird.

It's doubly weird when you think that Manning's the one being pushed as the humble down to earth guy, when he's the guy who was the NFL QB's son, the starter at a National Championship level college team that retired his number, drafted number 1 overall, made the starter right away, etc etc. He got a $48 million contract just after being drafted. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but Manning's been a golden child for pretty much his entire life in terms of football. Yet he's treated like this humble, self-made guy who's overcome tons of adversity. Not so.

Contrast that to the guy who wasn't highly recruited out of HS (and after being drafted by the Expos considered playing baseball instead), had to fight every year to play QB at Michigan because they brought in Drew Fucking Henson of all clipboard holders, got drafted 199th overall despite winning like crazy at Michigan, and who had to sit his entire first year on the sidelines as the 4th stringer.

It's weird. Brady should have worked on a hillbilly accent and pitched shitty pizza, that might have helped.

Zomp · Feb 4, 2014

Reverend said:
Yeah, I get that it's media hype bs and nothing new and not surprising, but I still don't have to like it. There's something unsettling about the idea that a lot of people think Brady's a punk simply because he's Manning's foil. It's weird.

I think you guys are creating an issue that really isn't there. A lot of people "sports hate" Tom Brady because he's won so much, he has a supermodel wife, before that he dated a hollywood actress. But I have never read anything by the media to suggest Brady is a punk. Quite the opposite in fact, I think he's been portrayed as a respectful and humble person and rightly so.

In the Manning vs Brady battle, I really don't think there is a villain...and I don't think its portrayed that way either.

Smiling Joe Hesketh · Feb 4, 2014

Zomp said:
I think you guys are creating an issue that really isn't there. A lot of people "sports hate" Tom Brady because he's won so much, he has a supermodel wife, before that he dated a hollywood actress. But I have never read anything by the media to suggest Brady is a punk. Quite the opposite in fact, I think he's been portrayed as a respectful and humble person and rightly so.

In the Manning vs Brady battle, I really don't think there is a villain...and I don't think its portrayed that way either.

Did you miss the poll question on ESPN that had Brady as the most hated QB in the league? One of the simpering media jacaksses actually asked Brady about that in the week leading up to the AFCCG.

Let's not pretend this dichotomy doesn't exist. It's real.

Zomp · Feb 4, 2014

Smiling Joe Hesketh said:
Did you miss the poll question on ESPN that had Brady as the most hated QB in the league? One of the simpering media jacaksses actually asked Brady about that in the week leading up to the AFCCG.

Let's not pretend this dichotomy doesn't exist. It's real.

Wasn't he also the second most liked QB in the league? Also, "Most Hated QB In The League" is kind of a loaded question, no? Do they hate him because, again, he wins? Or because they think he's a prick? I'm betting its the former.

and if its the latter, well then I'm wrong. But if it IS the latter...the players know more than the fans, right?

soxfan121 · Feb 4, 2014

Zomp said:
In the (Peyton)Manning vs Brady battle, I really don't think there is a villain...and I don't think its portrayed that way either.

Oh, there's a villain...

Zomp · Feb 4, 2014

Actually right, I forgot about the Uggs. Thats definitely a reason.

Reverend · Feb 4, 2014

Smiling Joe Hesketh said:
Contrast that to the guy who wasn't highly recruited out of HS (and after being drafted by the Expos considered playing baseball instead), had to fight every year to play QB at Michigan because they brought in Drew Fucking Henson of all clipboard holders, got drafted 199th overall despite winning like crazy at Michigan, and who had to sit his entire first year on the sidelines as the 4th stringer.

Yet somehow he became Billy Zabka.

Zomp said:
I think you guys are creating an issue that really isn't there. A lot of people "sports hate" Tom Brady because he's won so much, he has a supermodel wife, before that he dated a hollywood actress. But I have never read anything by the media to suggest Brady is a punk. Quite the opposite in fact, I think he's been portrayed as a respectful and humble person and rightly so.

I'm talking about, like, 7-10 years ago. Also, conversations I had in various states with people who were real football fans and bright people. Also, the child out-of-wedlock thing pushes the needle further for a lot of people.

Ralphwiggum · Feb 4, 2014

I got into an argument at a Blackjack table in Vegas after the Game That Shall Never Be Mentioned with a woman who thought Brady was an awful person because of the child out of wedlock thing. She was an Ole Miss grad and although not a Giants fan was happy that the much more "moral" of the two, Eli, took down the out-of-wedlock-child-having, supermodel-dating QB of the Pats. Ridiculous argument to get into but it was the day after the game and I was pissed.

One other anecdote, a law school friend of mine is a Michigan grad (mid-90s) and a rabid Michigan sports fan. He's not so much a pro sports guy and tends to root for various different ex-Michigan guys in the pros. He became a big Pats fan early in the 2000s because Brady was his favorite Michigan QB ever and one of his favorite guys in the pros. Fast forward to two years ago (last time I saw him on a golf trip) and the guy now hates Brady in kind of a weird way. This is a normally pretty rational guy, but his claim (through other Michigan football players that he knows) is that Brady had gone "Hollywood", had shed all of his old college buddies and traded them in for rich and famous type friends, and also apparently had gotten hair plugs.

So there you go. I grew up loving Joe Montana even though I was not a 49ers fan and I feel like that was sort of the norm back then unless your team was a rival of the 9ers. I feel like the default position for Brady amongst non-Pats fans is that they hate him, but maybe times have changed in that way, I don't know.

I would probably hate him if I was not a Patriot fan, though. So basically I have no point.

Smiling Joe Hesketh · Feb 4, 2014

JFC, it's not like Brady's not supporting the kid. For fuck's sake. I mean, that's what he's supposed to do #chrisrock but some "fans" make it sound like he knocked her up and then ran off. In fact they announced their breakup, and then only months later did she announce she was pregnant.

I've always suspected she pulled the goalie on him, honestly, since apparently one of the reasons they broke up is that she was older and wanted to start a family and he wanted to concentrate on football for the time being. But who fucking cares? They had their son, by all accounts they do a good job raising him and having him split time between the families. He's with Brady at least part of the football season. What's the problem again?

Smiling Joe Hesketh · Feb 4, 2014

And Joe Montana married a model too. You know why? Because he could. That's never been held against him nor should it be. Apparently it's a mortal sin when Brady's concerned though.

Smiling Joe Hesketh · Feb 4, 2014

jose melendez said:
I'm completely fine with holding anything against anyone in sports--irrational hate is fun

Of course it is...remember who you're talking to after all.

But those "reasons" are being presented as rational and that's fucking idiotic. Hate the guy because he wins too much or is too good-looking or has douchetastic hair, for all I care. But at least admit it's not rational.

Average Reds · Feb 4, 2014

Smiling Joe Hesketh said:
Contrast that to the guy who wasn't highly recruited out of HS (and after being drafted by the Expos considered playing baseball instead), had to fight every year to play QB at Michigan because they brought in Drew Fucking Henson of all clipboard holders, got drafted 199th overall despite winning like crazy at Michigan, and who had to sit his entire first year on the sidelines as the 4th stringer.

Utterly and completely off topic, but it should be mentioned that Drew Henson was a fabulously talented QB and if he had stayed at Michigan I have no doubt that he would have had a great pro career. Of course, he made the "smart move" and left school to take $15 million or so of George's money with the promise that he'd be given a shot at being the Yankees 3rd baseman of the future.

When Boone went down and they traded for A-Fraud, I felt bad for Henson. But then I remembered that anyone who makes a deal with the devil deserves their fate and I haven't much thought about it since then ...

Super Nomario · Feb 4, 2014

I think the Brady hate primarily comes from him being the QB of the Patriots, who are hated for winning and for Spygate. The Patriots are the most hated team in the league, Brady is the face of the franchise, therefore he's hated. Any reasoning for the hatred specific to Brady is after-the-fact rationalization in my estimation.

Morgan's Magic Snowplow · Feb 4, 2014

Super Nomario said:
I think the Brady hate primarily comes from him being the QB of the Patriots, who are hated for winning and for Spygate. The Patriots are the most hated team in the league, Brady is the face of the franchise, therefore he's hated. Any reasoning for the hatred specific to Brady is after-the-fact rationalization in my estimation.

Exactly. Although I think Spygate is just fuel for the haters, not a source of hatred in and of itself. People hate the Patriots because they've won too much and the media went overboard in adulation of the "Patriot Way" during the initial run.

Granite Sox · Feb 4, 2014

All the Brady "hate" mentioned above is considered legit out here in Indy, where I live.

It's his amoral "image" that is despised:

Belichick cheating flunky - rule breaker
Supermodel wife - brazen life of excess
Out-of-wedlock spawn merchant - immoral
Metrosexual pitch man - materialistic

(Plus he's considered a frequent on-field trash talker, which tends to rile up opponents [see Sherman, Richard].)

There is never any comment about his profession, per se, unless it is some attempt to discredit his relative dominance over Peyton's teams.

By all accounts Manning is a very good guy to Joe Public (this college era story is just "youth being wasted on the young", imo). His SOTY article further amplified his positive qualities. However, I would say there are an equal number of non-malicious stories regarding "the real Manning" out here that are conveniently (and probably rightly) ignored in these here parts.

(P.S. I'm a Michigan grad as well, and I hadn't heard that TB12 was big-timing ex-teammates, but it only seems a bit natural that he travels in different circles now, which may create some backlash. FWIW, on the invitation of Brady Hoke, he did visit the football team during the bye week this year and gave an impassioned speech to the team in support of their efforts and the need to embrace the experience of being a member of the football team.)

Smiling Joe Hesketh · Feb 4, 2014

My condolences for having to live in Indy.

Otis Foster · Feb 4, 2014

jose melendez said:
I agree. What I don't get is why people haven't turned on Peyton, Jeter, etc.

I think that Boston sports fans in general get under the skin of non-Bostonians. There are large patches of Boston fans all across the country, possibly a result of the Boston student population whose sports interest is cultivated while they're here. Furthermore, there are Boston fans planted in major sports media (see Simmons, et al.). On top of that. add BB's unpleasant demeanor, Brady's high life style and AH's gangsterism, and you have a toxic stew.

Leather · Feb 4, 2014

Boston sports fans that live outside of New England are in an impossible position, as far as how we get regarded by other fans.

We aren't allowed to revel in our teams' successes because that's "Gloating".

We aren't allowed to be more than slightly disappointed when our teams lose, or else we're "Entitled".

We aren't allowed to be emotionless regarding wins and losses because then we're "Spoiled."

In short, you can't win, so fuck it. But it's still irritating if you let it be.

rodderick · Feb 4, 2014

Super Nomario said:
I think the Brady hate primarily comes from him being the QB of the Patriots, who are hated for winning and for Spygate. The Patriots are the most hated team in the league, Brady is the face of the franchise, therefore he's hated. Any reasoning for the hatred specific to Brady is after-the-fact rationalization in my estimation.

The Patriots are more hated than any other sports franchise, but it's mostly for Spygate. Before 2007, when they actually were more successful in terms of winning titles, people obviously would revel in their misfortunes because nobody wants to see a team thoroughly dominate the league, but there wasn't anything special about that hatred. These days, there are morons everywhere that list the Pats as their most hated team, even in front of fucking NFC divisional rivals, because they really, actually believe with all their hearts that the only reason they ever won anything is that they cheated and disgraced the integrity of the game. It's dumb, it's ridiculous, it shouldn't be given any credence, but it's true.

Please note that I don't actually live in the United States and don't experience this hatred first hand. But in my experience, whenever the Patriots are brought up on the internet, be it message boards, Twitter, Facebook or even website comment sections, they always elicit a rabid response that I don't see directed towards any other team in any sport in any country.

DJnVa · Feb 4, 2014

Dick Pole Upside said:
All the Brady "hate" mentioned above is considered legit out here in Indy, where I live.

It's his amoral "image" that is despised:

What are their thoughts on Marvin Harrison?

Reverend · Feb 4, 2014

I feel like this thread has mostly run its course, but it wouldn't be right if there were no reference to this post--one of the greatest in forum history in fact--that pretty much encapsulates the whole thing.

Average Reds · Feb 4, 2014

jose melendez said:
I agree. What I don't get is why people haven't turned on Peyton, Jeter, etc.

jose melendez said:
Well, it makes total sense for Indy to hate him, given how often Brady kicked their asses. I don't begrudge them that. Hell, I don't begrudge the rest of the country hating us for winning. I'm naturally inclined to root for losers and hate winners. There are always people who are going to jump on bandwagons, and there are always people who will hate winners--I'm the latter, except when it comes to my teams. I especially hate people who are treated as the greatest without having won.

What I just can't quite figure out is why other people in the same boat don't get as much hate. Like do people in America hate Brett Favre?

I'll admit that I'm having a hard time understanding why you are having a hard time not getting this. It's not difficult.

Tom Brady is from California and plays in Boston. He dates actresses and supermodels and left one (while she was pregnant) to marry the other. He lives in a castle in California. He is not "one of us" to most people in the country.

Peyton Manning is from New Orleans. Brett Favre is from Mississippi. Derek Jeter is from Michigan. They are, in the eyes of these folks, "normal" people from "normal" places doing extraordinary things. (Yeah, Jeter plays in in NY, but he has that cool composure and Midwestern reserve to balance it.) When these guys screw up, people can relate, because who doesn't screw up? So no, America doesn't hate Brett Favre, or Peyton, or Derek Jeter. But America is not too fond of Tom Brady.

It's tribalism at it's best.

EvilEmpire · Feb 4, 2014

Mostly tribalism, but I think looks and stereotypes play into it a lot too.

Manning is too goofy looking for people to hate. He's wildly privledged and successful, but it doesn't seem like he has a big head about it. His head is big for other reasons.

Brady looks like a model for some European cologne or luxury watch or something. He looks like the guy who could steal your wife or girlfriend whenever he wanted. And really could.

Much easier to envy and dislike Brady.

Granite Sox · Feb 4, 2014

DrewDawg said:
What are their thoughts on Marvin Harrison?

I try and give as good as I get... I completely agree with Dr. Leather's post re the treatment of Boston/New England fans that live out of the region.

When I started getting stick about Hernandez this summer, my standard response was, "He learned everything he knows from Marvin."

I have yet to run into a single Colt fan that remotely knows what I am referring to. The Harrison murder story was NEVER really covered out here. The media basically reported it once as an unsolved shooting and "Poor Marvin got dragged into it" situation, and Polian generally browbeat anyone that tried to bring it up. The fact that he shot someone (on two separate occasions) in Philly meant it didn't happen in Indy, thus it didn't happen at all.

Outside of Jamal Tinsley starting an OK Corral-style shoot out in the middle of downtown a few years ago and Pat McAfee getting fished out of a downtown canal, police blotter and/or social gossip stories virtually don't exist out here. It's quite a contrast to the Northeast, anyway.

Super Nomario · Feb 4, 2014

Average Reds said:
I'll admit that I'm having a hard time understanding why you are having a hard time not getting this. It's not difficult.

Tom Brady is from California and plays in Boston. He dates actresses and supermodels and left one (while she was pregnant) to marry the other. He lives in a castle in California. He is not "one of us" to most people in the country.

Peyton Manning is from New Orleans. Brett Favre is from Mississippi. Derek Jeter is from Michigan. They are, in the eyes of these folks, "normal" people from "normal" places doing extraordinary things. (Yeah, Jeter plays in in NY, but he has that cool composure and Midwestern reserve to balance it.) When these guys screw up, people can relate, because who doesn't screw up? So no, America doesn't hate Brett Favre, or Peyton, or Derek Jeter. But America is not too fond of Tom Brady.

It's tribalism at it's best.

I think Jeter actually gets a lot of the same hate for a lot of the same reasons - he's a pretty boy, he dates models, he lives in a big city with an annoying fanbase, he's given constant praise for "leadership" and "intangibles," and he's the face of a wildly successful franchise that's perceived of as evil. I don't think anyone thinks of Jeter as being from Michigan at this point; hell, Brady probably has a better identity with Michigan nowadays. I think all the guys you mentioned - Brady, Favre, Peyton, Jeter - are hated by a decent portion of the public.

The more I think about it, the more I think Spygate was a perfect storm. You had a franchise who had recently won three Super Bowls so people were starting to get a little sick of them - in fact, the whole Boston sports scene was ascendant, with the Sox coming off the 2007 WS and the Celtics dominant with KG and Ray. You had an unlikable head coach at the root of things. The actual crime defied simple explanation, the Patriots were penalized severely (but Belichick wasn't suspended, something that stuck in people's craws for years), and there were (unfounded) rumors of worse transgressions, all of which made the cheating seem worse than it was.

So there was a seed of hate. Then the Pats started just rolling teams - they won all of their first eight games by 17 points or more, culminating in a 52-7 stomping of the Redskins. They started getting "greatest team ever" buzz, but people were sickened by the perceived "running up the score." The close shaves didn't help either, such as when they beat the Ravens on Monday Night Football in dramatic fashion thanks to some (correct) calls that Baltimore's players and fans still haven't stopped crying about. Since the Pats were the villains, it seemed unjust that they kept winning, and the hate just kept building and building. If they'd gone 12-4 and lost in the divisional round, they wouldn't be nearly as hated, but they just kept winning. When they lost in the Super Bowl, there were probably hardly any non-Pats fans who were rooting for them.

And Belichick, the guy at the core of Spygate, is still there (contrast with Bountygate, where Gregg Williams was scapegoated for the whole thing), so the hate hasn't dissipated. Brady's still here, too, and gets tarnished by association. I bet Manning / Brady love / hate was pretty even pre-2007, but as Brady is part of the "evil" Patriots, Manning becomes the "good guy" by default (I bet there are still a bunch of people who hate both).

cromulence · Feb 4, 2014

drleather2001 said:
Boston sports fans that live outside of New England are in an impossible position, as far as how we get regarded by other fans.

We aren't allowed to revel in our teams' successes because that's "Gloating".

We aren't allowed to be more than slightly disappointed when our teams lose, or else we're "Entitled".

We aren't allowed to be emotionless regarding wins and losses because then we're "Spoiled."

In short, you can't win, so fuck it. But it's still irritating if you let it be.

God I love this post. People (IRL and here) have been doing this to Yankees fans for years - especially the "Entitled" one. You're exactly right - it's bullshit. Of course there are asshole fans out there who demand every player and must win a championship every year, but they're the minority and most just want to watch their team win. Doesn't make you entitled.

mauf · Feb 4, 2014

cromulence said:
God I love this post. People (IRL and here) have been doing this to Yankees fans for years - especially the "Entitled" one. You're exactly right - it's bullshit. Of course there are asshole fans out there who demand every player and must win a championship every year, but they're the minority and most just want to watch their team win. Doesn't make you entitled.

Part of the hate for MFY fans is the "fair weather" thing. In the '80s, there were far more Mets than Yankees caps in Manhattan, and there are plenty of self-described "hard core" MFY fans who couldn't tell you who Stump Merrill was if their life depended on it, even though they are clearly old enough to remember. From the media narratives, however, you would think that New Yorkers lived and died with their baseball team the way people in Boston and St. Louis do.

Maybe that's a by-product of long-term success -- Boston fans are fair-weather about the Celtics, and it remains to be seen if the Pats retain their loyal following if (when) they endure another extended stretch as a second-division team.

Smiling Joe Hesketh · Feb 4, 2014

Reverend said:
I feel like this thread has mostly run its course, but it wouldn't be right if there were no reference to this post--one of the greatest in forum history in fact--that pretty much encapsulates the whole thing.

I love that, if only because it shows the natiomal disdain for the Pats existed pre-Spygate. All such rationalizations now (they're hated because of Spygate) are 100% bullshit. National pundits were picking at them long before that.

I also love the link because it shows posts way back when where i could really bring the pain.

Gunfighter 09 · Feb 5, 2014

I love how a thread about P Manning being an asshole turns into a bunch of Pats fans whining about how no one loves Brady enough.

AlNipper49 · Feb 5, 2014

Gunfighter 09 said:
I love how a thread about P Manning being an asshole turns into a bunch of Pats fans whining about how no one loves Brady enough.

You will not find a bigger Brady fan than I but I'm beginning to hate him for just this reason.

Mystic Merlin · Feb 5, 2014

Gunfighter 09 said:
I love how a thread about P Manning being an asshole turns into a bunch of Pats fans whining about how no one loves Brady enough.

I don't think you love it.

Super Nomario · Feb 5, 2014

Smiling Joe Hesketh said:
I love that, if only because it shows the natiomal disdain for the Pats existed pre-Spygate. All such rationalizations now (they're hated because of Spygate) are 100% bullshit. National pundits were picking at them long before that.

I also love the link because it shows posts way back when where i could really bring the pain.

There's a difference between the "Pats are boring" notion in that thread and the "Pats are villains" notion that appeared mostly after Spygate. Obviously the Pats' success is a big factor in both those feelings.

Tony C · Feb 5, 2014

Zomp said:
I think you guys are creating an issue that really isn't there. A lot of people "sports hate" Tom Brady because he's won so much, he has a supermodel wife, before that he dated a hollywood actress. But I have never read anything by the media to suggest Brady is a punk. Quite the opposite in fact, I think he's been portrayed as a respectful and humble person and rightly so.

In the Manning vs Brady battle, I really don't think there is a villain...and I don't think its portrayed that way either.

1 voice of sanity...

Gunfighter 09 said:
I love how a thread about P Manning being an asshole turns into a bunch of Pats fans whining about how no one loves Brady enough.

Don't forget how it also turned into they don't love Pats fans enough. People posting in this thread need to show it to their psychiatrists in order to get their paranoia/persecution complex meds increased.

In re Manning/Brady and/or the Pats, most people don't give a shit.

Smiling Joe Hesketh · Feb 5, 2014

Super Nomario said:
There's a difference between the "Pats are boring" notion in that thread and the "Pats are villains" notion that appeared mostly after Spygate. Obviously the Pats' success is a big factor in both those feelings.

I was responding more to the comments in that old thread from other posters in different areas of the country, rather than the dunderheaded article that led off the thread.

Peyton Sexual Harrssment way back

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