Peyton Manning's Legacy

[Hendu for Kutch]

Another nugget to chew on.  In his 3 SBs, the Colt/Bronco offense (ranked #2/#7/#1 in scoring) has put a total of 48 points on the board.  That's only 16 per game.  However, that doesn't factor in that the Colt/Bronco offense is also responsible for 16 points ALLOWED while on the field. 
 
A full 1/3 of every Colt/Bronco point scored is returned to the other team in these games as a direct result of a Manning turnover.  That doesn't include any indirect scores either (Colts get turnover in FG range, Broncos turn the ball over in FG range, etc.).  Manning's offenses are netting 10.66 points per game in the Super Bowl.
 
Just for comparison sake, Brady is at 100 points scored and 2 allowed over his 5 games, for a net of 19.6 points per game.  Ignore wins and losses and quality of their own defense (with, granted, some noise left behind) and it's clear who has strictly had better offensive performances.

 

[rodderick]

I would say Pedro Martinez had much more control over a game's outcome than, say, Super Bowl winners Trent Dilfer or Joe Flacco.

If you have to go to that extreme than I guess you agree with the general point I'm making.

 

[brandonchristensen]

One thing that blew my mind last night was how slow Peyton was working when he was down multiple scores.

Third quarter and he's still letting the clock run down. He gave the team no chance to even have enough time to come back.

 

[RoyHobbs]

...awesomeness...

 
This will probably be my go-to post when anyone brings up this issue. Thanks & great insights.

 

[RoyHobbs]

 
Well...
 
Maybe: "Hi, I'm Tom Brady, ambassador of making the most of what I've been given."
 
I think that more accurately represents what will be Brady's legacy, from the 6th Round factoid to getting shitheels like Caldwell, et. al. within a pass of a SB.   When he is given top-tier talent, you could count on him to, almost always, use that talent to its maximum potential.  

 
Glad to see the 'ambassador' thing caught on a tad...and I think this is also not only spot on, but kind of dovetails with what I think of Manning (and what I think any objective observer's first gut instinct about his career would be): "Hi, I'm the guy with -- and surrounded by -- insane talent who couldn't seem to deliver as often as I probably should have."

 

[Euclis20]

A couple more thoughts:
 
1.  Manning has clearly better volume regular season statistics (and a slight edge in rate stats).  He has a built in edge here, in part due to the following factors:
-He's generally had more offensive weapons.
-Played more than half of his games inside.
 
2.  Brady's teams have clearly experienced more success, both in the regular season and in the playoffs.  He has a built in edge here, in part due to the following factors:
-He's had Belichick, who is superior to Mora, Dungy, Caldwell, Fox.
-He's generally played with stronger defenses.
 
3.  Manning will retire with the rep of being perhaps the smartest QB in history.
 
4.  Brady will retire with the rep of being perhaps the best winner in history.  
 
At the end of the day, Manning will have a huge edge in MVPs, Brady will have a huge edge in playoff success (especially in Super Bowls).  Both of their success is due in part to circumstances beyond their control.  I'll say this:  If Manning had won yesterday, it'd be hard to claim he doesn't have a stronger case for GOAT than Brady.  But he lost.  Yeah, it's one game.  It was a big game, and despite being favored, his team was blown out, and it was as much on Manning as any other Bronco.  So of course he takes a hit.  I'll take Brady, but it's certainly possible to take Manning based on the data.
 
The best part of this argument:  It isn't closed yet.  One of these guys will be the favorite in the AFC again next season.

 

[SaveBooFerriss]

 
4.  Brady will retire with the rep of being perhaps the best winner in history.  
 
 

 
Terry Bradshaw probably has a bone to pick about this one.  
 
Edit: Not to mention Bart Starr or Joe Montana.  

 

[Al Zarilla]

One thing that blew my mind last night was how slow Peyton was working when he was down multiple scores.

Third quarter and he's still letting the clock run down. He gave the team no chance to even have enough time to come back.

I also noticed that and don't remember seeing anyone bring it up in the game thread. The thought that Brady and the Patriots are probably the best of all time at getting the absolute most out of every shred of time in a game crossed my mind as it does whenever another team is wasting precious time. 

 

[SaveBooFerriss]

If you have to go to that extreme than I guess you agree with the general point I'm making.

 
Not really, if you are talking about performance in a single game, I think an elite starting pitcher has more impact on a game than an elite QB.  The huge difference, of course, is that an elite SP is only going to pitch 1 in 5 regular season games and between 1 in 3 and 1 in 4 post season games.   

 

[Devizier]

Manning has a big edge in an area where I think Brady can't catch up; he's played roughly three more seasons more than Brady has, and performed really well in two of 'em.
 
Longetivity counts, and since Manning has the slight edge in their apex performances (2013 versus 2007), I gave him the edge.

 

[ivanvamp]

Great QBs that have been blown out of Super Bowls (10+ points):
 
- Fran Tarkenton (SB VIII) - 17 points
- Fran Tarkenton (SB IX) - 10 points
- Fran Tarkenton (SB XI) - 18 points
- Dan Marino (XIX) - 22 points
- John Elway (XXI) - 19 points
- John Elway (XXII) - 32 points
- John Elway (XXIV) - 45 points
- Jim Kelly (XXVI) - 13 points
- Jim Kelly (XXVII) - 35 points
- Jim Kelly (XXVIII) - 17 points
- Peyton Manning (XLIV) - 14 points
- Peyton Manning (XLVIII) - 35 points
 
There have been other blowouts, of course, but those were suffered by QBs that don't qualify as all-time greats.  It's actually an impressive list.  

 

[Ralphwiggum]

 
Terry Bradshaw probably has a bone to pick about this one.  
 
Edit: Not to mention Bart Starr or Joe Montana.  

 
Obviously Montana and Bradshaw won more Super Bowls than Brady has (at least to date) but I think he was going for something beyond just counting the rings.  To the extent that wins and losses are a QB stat (certainly debatable) (a) Brady is the only QB in NFL history to ever be 100 games over .500, and (b) Brady has won more playoff games than anyone.

 

[wiffleballhero]

I'll buy the argument that Brady has had better head coaches, but let's not lose track of the fact that it took until after the Pats beat Philly for the narrative to change away from it simply being BB and a bunch of interchangeable parts. And again, some of those Colts teams were stacked.
 
Here is the tipping point for me: if Brady wins another SB this discussion is just over -- it becomes silly to compare them in a universe where GOAT is partially, importantly determined by shepherding a team over the finish line. If Manning wins one more he is still one behind Brady. 

 

[ivanvamp]

Brady's chance for undeniable GOAT, no questions-asked, indisputable all-time champ, came in 2007.  That long bomb in the last few seconds to Moss, if Moss somehow catches it (and if you watch the replay, he was *thisclose* to getting it, except the Giant defender just got a hand on it), or if the helmet catch doesn't happen, then Brady goes 19-0, capping the greatest season in NFL history for a QB and for a team, that team is the GOAT, Brady is the MVP of the GOAT team, he goes 4-0 in Super Bowls (at that point), and just blows this discussion away forever.
 
$#!@*#&&&*#!&@#!!

 

[Devizier]

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

Manning has a big edge in an area where I think Brady can't catch up; he's played roughly three more seasons more than Brady has, and performed really well in two of 'em.
 
Longetivity counts, and since Manning has the slight edge in their apex performances (2013 versus 2007), I gave him the edge.

 
Brady is 18 months younger, doesn't have a fucked up neck, and is on a team considerably better positioned for 2015 and beyond from a salary cap/personnel standpoint.  I think its pretty likely that he plays a couple more seasons than Manning from this point forward.

 

[Stitch01]

Manning has a big edge in an area where I think Brady can't catch up; he's played roughly three more seasons more than Brady has, and performed really well in two of 'em.
 
Longetivity counts, and since Manning has the slight edge in their apex performances (2013 versus 2007), I gave him the edge.

He should get a chance catch up at some point unless Manning plays to 45 or something.

 

[johnmd20]

 
Obviously Montana and Bradshaw won more Super Bowls than Brady has (at least to date) but I think he was going for something beyond just counting the rings.  To the extent that wins and losses are a QB stat (certainly debatable) (a) Brady is the only QB in NFL history to ever be 100 games over .500, and (b) Brady has won more playoff games than anyone.

 
While playing in the salary cap era.

 

[Euclis20]

 
Terry Bradshaw probably has a bone to pick about this one.  
 
Edit: Not to mention Bart Starr or Joe Montana.  

Didn't say best super bowl winner, just"winner." He's currently the only qb who is more than 100 games over .500, though manning will likely join him in a year or two. He has the best regular season winning percentage of any qb with more than 40 wins. Brady has won an average of 12.4 games per season, which is incredible. For comparison, montana won an average of 11.4 games per season, manning averages 11.1 wins per season. He has more playoff wins than any qb in history. Calling him perhaps the greatest winner in nfl history is hardly a stretch.

 

[Tony C]

By the way...could anyone even tell what the hell the Broncos' gameplan was yesterday? I mean maybe it's unfair to ask because they were down 15-0 in the blink of an eye, but looking back I don't know if I could even tell you how they planned to attack the Seahawks' defense.

 
 
Partly it was great defense. But the plan seemed to be to establish the short passing game/run before looking long. The Hawks allowed the short passes, but no YAC -- that Chancellor hit on the first play really set a tone.
 
 

Folks who want to give Manning a pass and blame it on his teammates, should note that the Denver defense had an okay game.  They got out of the disasterous first quarter down 15-0.  They also only allowed 13 points in the first half.  The Broncos D allowed 341 yards of total offense... blame the whole of the Broncos offense and special teams, to be sure, but the Broncos defense has almost nothing to do with why they lost that game.

 
I can't believe this point was disputed. Teh Broncos defense was pretty decent for most of the game, aside from a few Harvin runs. Shut down Lynch, especially -- holding the Hawks to 3 points on short fields their first 2 possessions was excellent.
 

 
 
The writing in that story, horrific...anyway I want to pick on my favorite choice of words that I've heard across all media today (and not meaning to pick you RW.)  "last night should not tarnish his legacy"  It didn't, it burnished his legacy as a quarterback that has a knack of coming up small in big spots.  Peyton's legacy is that he is one of the best regular season quarterbacks ever (as good or better than Marino) and that he is the best dome quarterback we have seen (unless Brees plays for a lot longer) and that he has consistently taken the field leading teams with better talent than the opponent and lost in big games more than anyone else.  Is his legacy that he is a top ten all time quarterback? You bet , in my mind right in there with Favre and Marino in the 6-9 range.  In fact I posit that winning last night would have tarnished his legacy but good old Peyton came through.   

 
I've gained a ton of respect for Manning -- he's great and he's pretty classy about it. But at the end of the day, the above is spot on. Most productive regular season QB ever. And meh in the playoffs. Not sure how you can cut it any other way.
 

The worst unit on the field by far was the broncos offensive line.

 
Nonsense. They were up against a great DL and did a decent job. Far from perfect, but in general Manning had time.

 

[Hagios]

 

I didn't follow football when Elway was at the height of his powers, but it seems to me that the gap between Brady/Montana/Manning and the next tier of great quarterbacks grows wider with every passing season.

How does Manning make this list? He hasn't done it on postseason performance. And if we go by regular season performance, Aaron Rodgers has a higher career QB Rating (104 vs. 97) and a higher yards per attempt (8.2 vs. 7.7). And Rodgers plays outside whereas Manning was in a dome for most of his career. No matter how you weight regular season vs. postseason, Manning is not in the top three.

 

[Tony C]

I was wondering why Rodgers was being left out. There needs to be some sort of metric to figure out the weather/dome element in comparing QBs.
 
I take Rodgers and Brady over Manning for that reason.

 

[Stitch01]

 
I can't believe this point was disputed. THE Broncos defense was pretty decent for most of the game, aside from a few Harvin runs. Shut down Lynch, especially -- holding the Hawks to 3 points on short fields their first 2 possessions was excellent.
 

No QB hits, no sacks, no pressure, no turnovers, carved up by Russell Wilson.  Bad grades from PFF on both pass rush and coverage.  The first two possessions started at the Seahawks 36 and Seahawks 28.
 
The Broncos pass defense sucked

 

[Euclis20]

 
I can't believe this point was disputed. THE Broncos defense was pretty decent for most of the game, aside from a few Harvin runs. Shut down Lynch, especially -- holding the Hawks to 3 points on short fields their first 2 possessions was excellent.

Exactly. Denver's defense wasn't great, but it doesn't matter when Denver's offense couldn't even outscore Seattle's defense. The Bronco defense could've pitched a shutout, and Seattle still wins 16-8. This loss is almost entirely on manning and the offense, with special teams getting some blame for allowing the return td.


*edited to prevent too many posts: I figure the reason Rodgers isn't in any of the GOAT discussions yet is simply because he hasn't done enough. He needs another 5-6 years of counting stats and wins at a similar level to get into this discussion. I think he's the best active qb, but his career isn't yet on the same level as Brady, Manning, Montana, Elway, Marino.

 

[Ralphwiggum]

We only have data for Rodgers for 5 1/2 seasons or so (a little more than that).  His numbers during that timeframe are great but I think most of the comparisons in this thread have been to guys who have a full career's worth of numbers.

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

Exactly. Denver's defense wasn't great, but it doesn't matter when Denver's offense couldn't even outscore Seattle's defense. The Bronco defense could've pitched a shutout, and Seattle still wins 16-8. This loss is almost entirely on manning and the offense, with special teams getting some blame for allowing the return td.

 
The Denver offense did them no favors with field position and time of possession, but Denver's D allowed 3 TDs and 2 FGs on Seattle's first six drives.  That's pretty fucking bad.  Seattle converted 7 of its first 10 third down plays.  Denver couldn't get off the field all night.

 

[RedOctober3829]

 
The Denver offense did them no favors with field position and time of possession, but Denver's D allowed 3 TDs and 2 FGs on Seattle's first six drives.  That's pretty fucking bad.

This is how I thought the Denver D was going to look like against New England.  It was amazing that they did what they did 2 weeks ago IMO.

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

This is how I thought the Denver D was going to look like against New England.  It was amazing that they did what they did 2 weeks ago IMO.

 
Yeah, I thought about that too.  Makes me a little bit more pissed that our offense didn't show up/execute.

 

[MarcSullivaFan]

Great QBs that have been blown out of Super Bowls (10+ points):
 
- Fran Tarkenton (SB VIII) - 17 points
- Fran Tarkenton (SB IX) - 10 points
- Fran Tarkenton (SB XI) - 18 points
- Dan Marino (XIX) - 22 points
- John Elway (XXI) - 19 points
- John Elway (XXII) - 32 points
- John Elway (XXIV) - 45 points
- Jim Kelly (XXVI) - 13 points
- Jim Kelly (XXVII) - 35 points
- Jim Kelly (XXVIII) - 17 points
- Peyton Manning (XLIV) - 14 points
- Peyton Manning (XLVIII) - 35 points
 
There have been other blowouts, of course, but those were suffered by QBs that don't qualify as all-time greats.  It's actually an impressive list.  

Sorry, but saying that Manning was "blown out" against the Saints is ridiculous. The Colts were leading by a point going into the 4th quarter. The game deciding INT came in NO territory with 3:24 on the clock and the Colts down by one score. It was a close game.

 

[Al Zarilla]

Great QBs that have been blown out of Super Bowls (10+ points):
 
- Fran Tarkenton (SB VIII) - 17 points
- Fran Tarkenton (SB IX) - 10 points
- Fran Tarkenton (SB XI) - 18 points
- Dan Marino (XIX) - 22 points
- John Elway (XXI) - 19 points
- John Elway (XXII) - 32 points
- John Elway (XXIV) - 45 points
- Jim Kelly (XXVI) - 13 points
- Jim Kelly (XXVII) - 35 points
- Jim Kelly (XXVIII) - 17 points
- Peyton Manning (XLIV) - 14 points
- Peyton Manning (XLVIII) - 35 points
 
There have been other blowouts, of course, but those were suffered by QBs that don't qualify as all-time greats.  It's actually an impressive list.  

Hall of Famer Len Dawson says hi. 

 

[ivanvamp]

Sorry, but saying that Manning was "blown out" against the Saints is ridiculous. The Colts were leading by a point going into the 4th quarter. The game deciding INT came in NO territory with 3:24 on the clock and the Colts down by one score. It was a close game.

 
Fair point.  I was just going by final margin.  

 

[ivanvamp]

Hall of Famer Len Dawson says hi. 

 
Whoops, forgot about him in Super Bowl I.

 

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

 
Whoops, forgot about him in Super Bowl I.

 
Are you sure you "forgot about him"?
 
Are you sure you just "don't know who he is"?
 
It's OK to not know stuff.

 

[ivanvamp]

That's kind of an insulting question, KFP, to be perfectly honest.

 

[Al Zarilla]

 
Whoops, forgot about him in Super Bowl I.

Daryle Lamonica (SB2) was one of the best of his time also. Actually, losing to Lombardi's Packers at the scores that went down was no shame for either the Chiefs or the Raiders.
 
OTOH, last night? That was shameful. Peyton handled himself well in post-game, as others have said, except maybe for one question: he was asked if if he was embarrassed. He went on and on about all the work that all those guys in the locker room, as well as he had put in, and there was no embarrassment whatsoever. Sorry, Peytie, that was an embarrassing loss if there ever was one. 

 

[ivanvamp]

Daryle Lamonica (SB2) was one of the best of his time also. Actually, losing to Lombardi's Packers at the scores that went down was no shame for either the Chiefs or the Raiders.

 
Well him I don't know much about.  But Len Dawson?  Good grief.  

 

[jose melendez]

 
The Denver offense did them no favors with field position and time of possession, but Denver's D allowed 3 TDs and 2 FGs on Seattle's first six drives.  That's pretty fucking bad.  Seattle converted 7 of its first 10 third down plays.  Denver couldn't get off the field all night.

You know that's not true right?
 
First, FG, Second FG,  Third TD, 4th time expires on half, fifth kick reurn doesn't count against the D, sixth punt, seventh touchdown
 
 
Basically the Denver D allowed one touchdown and two field goal before the game was out of hand do to a pick six, a kick return and a safety  16 pts from the broncos offense/special team and 13 from the D, and a D that had short fields to defend at that.

 

[coremiller]

Kind of off-topic, but where does all the John Elway love come from?  Why do people think he's a Top-5 all-time QB?  Now there's a guy whose reputation vastly exceeds his actual performance.  Even among his contemporaries, Montana, Marino, and Young were all significantly better than he was by just about every measure (so was Favre if you count him as a contemporary). and guys like Aikman and Kelly and Moon were probably just as good.  Elway doesn't belong anywhere near a GOAT discussion.  

 

[ivanvamp]

It might have to do with his all-time ranking among QBs in yards and TDs, plus the fact that he went to 5 Super Bowls and won 2, plus an MVP award.  Not many guys in the history of the sport have accomplished what he has.

 

[Super Nomario]

 
Are you sure you "forgot about him"?
 
Are you sure you just "don't know who he is"?
 
It's OK to not know stuff.

Of course I know who Len Dawson is!
 

 
On a serious note, for those who consider Joe Montana the GOAT ... do you discount him at all for being injured quite a bit? He played every game in his first four seasons as a starter. He then missed 19 games over the next 6 seasons, all but 1 game of the 1991 and 1992 seasons, and 7 games in his two seasons with KC. That's 57 missed games in 14 years. Brady's missed just 15 games in 13 seasons, Manning just 16 in 16.

 

[RoyHobbs]

I'm gonna add this to the reasons why I don't read sports commentary at places like Huffington Post.

 

[dano7594]

I honestly read the first 3 pages, and have skimmed the last 3, so I apologize if it has been brought up, but for the first 13 years of Peyton's career he played in a climate controlled environment at minimum 8 games year, while Brady has spent his entire career not enjoying the luxury of 75 degree air conditioning in December.   

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

You know that's not true right?
 
First, FG, Second FG,  Third TD, 4th time expires on half, fifth kick reurn doesn't count against the D, sixth punt, seventh touchdown
 
 
Basically the Denver D allowed one touchdown and two field goal before the game was out of hand do to a pick six, a kick return and a safety  16 pts from the broncos offense/special team and 13 from the D, and a D that had short fields to defend at that.

 
I'm not counting that "drive" because they didn't try to score, they just kneeled the ball.  I'm not counting the KO return either.
 
FG, FG, TD, Punt, TD, TD - that's how Seattle's drives went in this game.  Denver couldn't stop them at all.

 

[TomRicardo]

 
Terry Bradshaw probably has a bone to pick about this one.  
 
Edit: Not to mention Bart Starr or Joe Montana.  

 
Tom Brady has the best winning percentage of in the regular season in the Super Bowl era with 50 starts.  Montana and Staubach are the only other 2 over 70%.
 
Brady also has more playoff wins than any other QB and is right behind Montana in win percentage.
 
Edit - What Tom Brady has done over the salary cap era in simply unreal especially with the talent around him.

 

[Reverend]

I'll buy the argument that Brady has had better head coaches, but let's not lose track of the fact that it took until after the Pats beat Philly for the narrative to change away from it simply being BB and a bunch of interchangeable parts. And again, some of those Colts teams were stacked.
 
Here is the tipping point for me: if Brady wins another SB this discussion is just over -- it becomes silly to compare them in a universe where GOAT is partially, importantly determined by shepherding a team over the finish line. If Manning wins one more he is still one behind Brady. 

 
I wonder what the conversation about Brady's legacy in the Superb Owl would be if the Pats had beaten Denver and the offense was taken out behind the woodshed by Seattle last night.
 
 

Brady's chance for undeniable GOAT, no questions-asked, indisputable all-time champ, came in 2007.  That long bomb in the last few seconds to Moss, if Moss somehow catches it (and if you watch the replay, he was *thisclose* to getting it, except the Giant defender just got a hand on it), or if the helmet catch doesn't happen, then Brady goes 19-0, capping the greatest season in NFL history for a QB and for a team, that team is the GOAT, Brady is the MVP of the GOAT team, he goes 4-0 in Super Bowls (at that point), and just blows this discussion away forever.
 
$#!@*#&&&*#!&@#!!

 
Which sorta underscores the arbitrariness of upon whom the title lands.
 
 

No QB hits, no sacks, no pressure, no turnovers, carved up by Russell Wilson.  Bad grades from PFF on both pass rush and coverage.  The first two possessions started at the Seahawks 36 and Seahawks 28.
 
The Broncos pass defense sucked

 
Fair point, but Wilson was throwing seeds last night into impossible windows. This gets us back to the eternal "How do you figure out if the defense sucked or the offense was awesome?" debate, yeah?
 
From what I've heard, Wilson can be inconsistent and prone to turnovers. But from what I've seen, when he's on, he's on. How do we parse the blame for Denver or the credit for Seattle?

 

[Al Zarilla]

I'm gonna add this to the reasons why I don't read sports commentary at places like Huffington Post.

Why did I even click on that. Len Dawson one position behind Tom Brady; Dan Marino 13 positions behind Peyton Manning. Give Marino some running backs and/or receivers taller than 5' 9" and he probably beats Manning's playoff career, not that that's saying much.

 

[Reverend]

Kind of off-topic, but where does all the John Elway love come from?  Why do people think he's a Top-5 all-time QB?  Now there's a guy whose reputation vastly exceeds his actual performance.  Even among his contemporaries, Montana, Marino, and Young were all significantly better than he was by just about every measure (so was Favre if you count him as a contemporary). and guys like Aikman and Kelly and Moon were probably just as good.  Elway doesn't belong anywhere near a GOAT discussion.  

 
I think it depends how old you are. Elway played before parity; not every good QB had a shot to win.

 

[Stitch01]

 Fair point, but Wilson was throwing seeds last night into impossible windows. This gets us back to the eternal "How do you figure out if the defense sucked or the offense was awesome?" debate, yeah?
 
From what I've heard, Wilson can be inconsistent and prone to turnovers. But from what I've seen, when he's on, he's on. How do we parse the blame for Denver or the credit for Seattle?

 I like Wilson, and he gets credit for making those throws, but he's more likely to make them when you get zero hits and zero sacks.

 

[Phragle]

I think it's fucking insane to have Elway in that group.

 
I don't even think Manning should be in it. Brady and Montana are in a class by themselves.
 

The worst unit on the field by far was the broncos offensive line.

 
Not relatively. They didn't fare any worse than NO or SF. 
 

If Denver had Montana or Brady instead of Manning yesterday, anyone think they win that game?  I dont, which is one of the reasons I hate heavily weighting one game in these discussions.

 
It's not about whether they won or lost, it's about how they would have played. Just like legacies are about more than their playoff stat line. It''s about how they played.
 
Neither of them would have came out and crapped themselves into oblivion like Manning just did.
 

I understand Wins/Losses is a great way to evaluate pitchers too.

 
Good troll.
 

 
Are you sure you "forgot about him"?
 
Are you sure you just "don't know who he is"?
 
It's OK to not know stuff.

 
Keep telling yourself that!

 

[Harry Hooper]

One thing that blew my mind last night was how slow Peyton was working when he was down multiple scores.

Third quarter and he's still letting the clock run down. He gave the team no chance to even have enough time to come back.

 
Yes! I recall Welker making a reception early in the 3rd qtr and hustling to line up, only to see the rest of the Broncos taking their time to get up to the LOS. Welker was seen waving for Peyton to pick up the pace.
 
I couldn't believe this passed without comment on air, though Aikman had already mentally checked out concluding the Broncos had no chance in the game.