Peyton Manning's Legacy

Devizier

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Three guys that deserve more consideration in these discussions, but never get it:
 
Steve Young
Roger Staubach
Fran Tarkenton
 

mpx42

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SMU_Sox said:
So we're debating performance in small sample sizes... Might I suggest we take everything with a grain of salt? Just a reminder that football is already a game of small sample sizes. When you take the playoffs, and playoffs alone, into account that's an even smaller sample size. We're talking about assessing an individual's performance in a team game with a tiny sample size. I'm sorry - but I'm already skeptical.
 
Football Outsiders has a piece up from 1989-2013 on this topic. It's a good read. It's not the be-all-and-end-all. 
 
Best playoff third down conversion rate ever - Mark Sanchez. Awesome.
 

Eric1984

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RoyHobbs said:
I'm gonna add this to the reasons why I don't read sports commentary at places like Huffington Post.
Ugh. That's the same kind of garbage that makes NPR so unlistenable when they to talk about sports. They had a woman on On Point who wrote what sounds like an interesting book about the history of football - and she sounded pretty knowledgeable - and then had Armen Ketayen to preview the Super Bowl - yet Tom Ashbrook sounded like such an uninformed dipshit (Lynn Swann catching 49 passes for 700 yds in SB X?) that it rendered the whole thing unlistenable.
 

Nick Kaufman

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There use to be an old coaching compliment.  "He could beat you coaching his team, and then he could beat you coaching your team against his."  That's where I am with Brady versus Manning.  Brady showed he could win with whatever team he was given, and if you gave him a stacked team (like in 2007) he could win that way as well.  He didn't win the superbowl in 2007 but he didn't exactly lose it either.  Being one defensive play away from winning a superbowl two times doesn't equate to personal failure in my mind.  I don't know that Manning could have won in New England the way Brady was asked to - I think (with no way to prove it), that some of those playoff games would have gone differently.  A pick here, an errant throw there.  Just my opinion.
 
 
Yeah, but Brady had Belichick. I feel that a lot of stuff attributed to Brady are due to a large extent to Belichick. Let's do another thought experiment. What happens if Payton is coached by Belichick throughout his career and Brady by Dungy, Caldwell and Fox? Do the stats remain the same? I feel Manning would gain an edge in stats and W-L record if that is the case.
 

lars10

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Nick Kaufman said:
 
Yeah, but Brady had Belichick. I feel that a lot of stuff attributed to Brady are due to a large extent to Belichick. Let's do another thought experiment. What happens if Payton is coached by Belichick throughout his career and Brady by Dungy, Caldwell and Fox? Do the stats remain the same? I feel Manning would gain an edge in stats and W-L record if that is the case.
Does manning have the same receivers Brady has had? I think you reverse the supporting cast (especially post surgery for manning) and Brady has unreal offensive numbers. Belichick is obv an advantage... But I feel like manning would make the same mistakes that he's consistently made in the playoffs... His ints have really had nothing to do with coaching have they?

Edit: and really.. How much credit does bill get for the offense ever?? I feel like giving all credit to BB and none to Brady is the laziest argument ever.
 

Stitch01

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I'd say BB gets a lot if credit for the playoff W-L record.

Brady obviously does too, but good luck trying to attribute how much goes to who. That's the hard part of using team stats in this debate.
 

Granite Sox

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How convenient:
 
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10682817/peyton-manning-denver-broncos-want-paid-more-tom-brady-new-england-patriots
 
I think this is laugh-out-loud funny in an uber-cynical way.
 
The perception is always that PM commands top dollar, to the point where Irsay second-guessed the construction of the Manning Colts due to the imbalance in distribution of resources.
 
After conducting an auction for his services, with a notorious agent known for acrimonious negotiations resulting in top dollar deals, Manning now wants the benefits of sainthood after his mercenary tactics didn't yield the ultimate results (SB victory) everyone expected.
 
Biased? Sure, but Manning needs to stew a little longer in his soiled legacy diaper, if you ask me.
 

seageral

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I was just going to come in here to post that.  What a bunch of bs.  His wife convinced him to take it?  Sure.
 

Leather

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Manning in 2012: "Do not make me the highest paid QB in the game.  I do not need that around my neck if things don't work out."
 
Manning in 2014: "I was being 100%  magnanimous by taking less than what I could get!"
 

normstalls

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Dick Pole Upside said:
How convenient:
 
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10682817/peyton-manning-denver-broncos-want-paid-more-tom-brady-new-england-patriots
 
I think this is laugh-out-loud funny in an uber-cynical way.
 
The perception is always that PM commands top dollar, to the point where Irsay second-guessed the construction of the Manning Colts due to the imbalance in distribution of resources.
 
After conducting an auction for his services, with a notorious agent known for acrimonious negotiations resulting in top dollar deals, Manning now wants the benefits of sainthood after his mercenary tactics didn't yield the ultimate results (SB victory) everyone expected.
 
Biased? Sure, but Manning needs to stew a little longer in his soiled legacy diaper, if you ask me.
 
We are probably preaching to choir here...but after I read that article this morning, I felt exactly the same way.  
"You can't eat your cake and have it (too)" seems to apply here.
 

Reverend

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I love the fact that Brady takes below market rate and see it as a sign of his competitive spirit and willing to do what it takes for the team, but it is probably worth mentioning that his wife basically gets money hurled at her basically for, like, going outside.
 

soxfan121

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Reverend said:
I love the fact that Brady takes below market rate and see it as a sign of his competitive spirit and willing to do what it takes for the team, but it is probably worth mentioning that his wife basically gets money hurled at her basically for, like, going outside.
 
No shit. I recently had the opportunity to watch some international/south american TV programming and Gisele is LITERALLY in every third advertisement. Hair products, clothing line, automobiles, cancer charities, wireless...everywhere. 
 
Tommy's paycheck is their loose-change dish.
 

seageral

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from this:
 
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/peyton-manning-vs-tom-brady-101100770.html
 
how can both of these statements be true:
 
 
$30 million: Earnings from salary and endorsements for Manning between June 2012 and June 2013. Manning is the NFL's top pitchman earning $12 million a year from partners like Reebok, Sony, Buick, DirecTV and Papa John's.
$38.3 million: Earnings from salary and endorsements for Brady between June 2012 and June 2013. He ranked eleventh in our annual list of the world's highest-paid athletes.
 
 
edit:
 
http://www.nfl.com/photoessays/0ap1000000210472
 
Tom Brady's salary/winnings was 31mm in 2013?  Ah... they must include signing bonus not average contract value.
 

mpx42

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Because Brady got that fucking enormous lump sum bonus from the Patriots for signing that below market extension. Next calendar year it should be much smaller.
 

Ed Hillel

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Comparing salaries and all that and whose wife makes more isn't really the point, is it? The way this is written, it's about how Manning wanted to show a sign of respect to Brady by being paid less than him, but then he hired Tom Condon (or retained him) and took more because "his wife convinced him." I'm sure the Broncos would have loved that extra cap space too. Seems a lot like a BS puff piece.
 

If was Manning, I wouldnt be too pleased with my agent today.
 
Assuming he is speaking against Manning's wishes, of course.
 

Granite Sox

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Reverend said:
I love the fact that Brady takes below market rate and see it as a sign of his competitive spirit and willing to do what it takes for the team, but it is probably worth mentioning that his wife basically gets money hurled at her basically for, like, going outside.
 
No question G is the bread winner.  I just (want to) believe that TB12 would never force the "spin" on compensation like Manning is trying to do.
 
Just another reason why TB12 is so full of awesome.
 

rodderick

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Reverend said:
I love the fact that Brady takes below market rate and see it as a sign of his competitive spirit and willing to do what it takes for the team, but it is probably worth mentioning that his wife basically gets money hurled at her basically for, like, going outside.
 
He also took a very team friendly deal in 2005, way before he met Gisele.
 

j-man

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depends on your definition HOF Yes TOP 5 QB Yes Big Game Player No he won a SB in 06 only Because his Def forced a LOT of TO in the playoffs and the Bears where happy to be there 
 

Buster Olney the Lonely

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This is the ultimate humblebrag, isn't it?

Condon: "I did a bad job because I didn't listen to my client. [But I did get him paid a boatload of money]."

Condon: "Manning did a bad job for accepting all that money [even though he didn't want to and had to be convinced by his wife to take it.]"

Great story. Thanks for letting that get out, but as long as we're being so honest, can you let us know if Peyton is still doing paid appearances at sweet sixteen parties or is all that in the past?

Two assholes deserve each other.
 

Jettisoned

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There was also that "Brady will probably beat my record next year" thing during the season. Peyton's going all in on the faux humility in the last year, but it's transparent that he's trying to make himself out to be the good guy underdog to Brady.
 

Jettisoned

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I guess it's really only a drop in the bucket for the school since $105 K is slighly more than in-state students pay to go there, but could they really not find a better use of that money than to have a football player show up for an hour?
 

Leather

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Jettisoned said:
I guess it's really only a drop in the bucket for the school since $105 K is slighly more than in-state students pay to go there, but could they really not find a better use of that money than to have a football player show up for an hour?
 
There's certainly that.  There's also the fact that Peyton has a history of milking top dollar for stuff that he could easily do for free, or for a much smaller amount, if he were really concerned with being a "Good Guy".  Sweet 16 parties, college speeches, etc...
 
I mean, it's certainly his right to make as much dough as he can.  But don't come around acting like Ol' Peyton I'm-One-Of-The-Fellas at the same time.
 

Granite Sox

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Exactly.

You want to command these type of honoraria after you've retired? Knock yourself out.

Squeeze out willing suckers for 100 large in the offseason when you're currently pulling down an eight-figure salary? Kiss my ass.