Pedroia Predictions

YTF

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And school bus drivers do pretty decent nowadays. It’s a hard position to fill - CDL, annoying kids, weird hours, etc.

Many get $19-20 an hour or more, plus good health plan and 403b.
Not takings sides here, but one thing not mentioned in this school bus driver scenario is that is that it's a part time gig. Three hours a day maybe for most?

Back to the intention of the thread...Chavis is going nowhere. If/when Pedroia returns it's likely the end of the road for Nunez with Chavis and Pedroia splitting time at second and Chavis picking up additional ABs spelling guys at other positions.
 
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joe dokes

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In Casey Stengal's words, "You have to have a catcher because if you don't you're likely to have a lot of passed balls." But that doesn't mean you have to pay the catcher a living wage if he'll work for less.
There is that whole monopoly thing on the other side of your capitalism equation.
 

InstaFace

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Plus, the team has a interest in not paying him the remaining $25M if he's not going to ever be a productive player again. He was not a Dombrowski guy and Dombrowski runs the baseball ops, so he has no long-term relationship with Pedroia, meaning he has no real motivation beyond some kind of warped sense of "doing the right thing" for a player that hasn't been a meaningful contributor to the team in a couple of years, basically since he's been here.

Two lost seasons (more if you count the time he lost when the injury first occurred) might be enough to convince him that it's time to do the honorable thing and not hold the organization up for money he's never going to truly earn.
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The contract he signed was deliberately team friendly, taking way less than his market value at the time, because he wanted to give the team some payroll flexibility to go build a winner. So, you want to talk about "truly earning" his dollars? How about ownership "truly earning" what they underpaid for his services years ago? Well, this is when they earn it, by not trying manipulative shenanigans and just Paying That Man His Money.
 

BaseballJones

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i know this has been talked about ad nauseam, but any talk of Pedroia doing "the honorable thing" in order to save a literal billionaire a couple million dollars is ridiculous. His contract, when signed, was a pretty team friendly deal and they can't just bully him into retirement to save a few dollars. If they don't want him on the roster they can release him. I'd rather Dustin Pedroia have that money than John Henry. We have wasted millions of dollars over the last few years on garbage players and been fine, Pedroia's 25 mil over the next two seasons isnt going to doom this team
Pedroia retires, saving the team lots of money in terms of the luxury tax (I guess?). Then the Red Sox hire him as a $25 million consultant for the next two seasons. I'm sure MLB wouldn't like that, but what could they really do about it? It's the team's business if they want to pay people a lot of money for their non-playing services.
 

Byrdbrain

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Pedroia retires, saving the team lots of money in terms of the luxury tax (I guess?). Then the Red Sox hire him as a $25 million consultant for the next two seasons. I'm sure MLB wouldn't like that, but what could they really do about it? It's the team's business if they want to pay people a lot of money for their non-playing services.
This has been discussed and will not happen. There is a collective bargaining agreement that this would clearly be a violation of.

He is going to get paid his money and it will be on the books.
 

BaseballJones

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This has been discussed and will not happen. There is a collective bargaining agreement that this would clearly be a violation of.

He is going to get paid his money and it will be on the books.
I know it won't happen. But what's the wording in the CBA? That is....suppose Pedroia retires (I know he's not going to give up the money but just work with the thought experiment) and they hire him several years later at an abnormally high salary. How much time needs to go by before the CBA doesn't really have any impact on this? How high is too high a salary?

I mean, Mike Scioscia - a former player - is among the highest paid managers at $6 million. Obviously he's been getting paid a long time before now. But what is the time frame and salary structure such that the Angels paying him this kind of money isn't a violation of the CBA?
 

Jim Ed Rice in HOF

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I know it won't happen. But what's the wording in the CBA? That is....suppose Pedroia retires (I know he's not going to give up the money but just work with the thought experiment) and they hire him several years later at an abnormally high salary. How much time needs to go by before the CBA doesn't really have any impact on this? How high is too high a salary?

I mean, Mike Scioscia - a former player - is among the highest paid managers at $6 million. Obviously he's been getting paid a long time before now. But what is the time frame and salary structure such that the Angels paying him this kind of money isn't a violation of the CBA?
- He played for the Dodgers, not the Angels.
- There was an 8 year gap between when he last played and when he became a manager
- Scioscia isn’t managing the Angels anymore.
 

BaseballJones

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- He played for the Dodgers, not the Angels.
- There was an 8 year gap between when he last played and when he became a manager
- Scioscia isn’t managing the Angels anymore.
WAS making $6 million. Good grief. The point stands, unless the CBA specifically says that yeah a team can pay you a fortune to manage, as long as it wasn't a team you played for.

And then wouldn't that mean that ex-players aren't being treated fairly by the CBA when it comes to managing, compared to non-ex-players?

EDIT: You know what, forget it.
 

Byrdbrain

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WAS making $6 million. Good grief. The point stands, unless the CBA specifically says that yeah a team can pay you a fortune to manage, as long as it wasn't a team you played for.

And then wouldn't that mean that ex-players aren't being treated fairly by the CBA when it comes to managing, compared to non-ex-players?

EDIT: You know what, forget it.
Mike Scioscia completed his contract with the Dodgers and was paid everything he was owed when the Angels decided to pay him too much money.
You are trying to find a way to circumvent a binding contract, that is why these two things have nothing to do with one another.
 

shaggydog2000

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Some players do retire with money left on the table. Some people also win the lottery, get eaten by sharks, or hit by lightning. That info doesn't convince me to buy lottery tickets weekly, or avoid swimming in the ocean or going out in the rain. The Sox are overwhelmingly likely to get stuck with that cap hit, and we should prepare for that and be surprised and happy if it doesn't happen somehow.

Also, I looked up some more info on the minor leagues. It's hard to get detailed info, but it looks like teams do cover health care premiums for players, but I'm not sure if that is only in season, or what happens if a player gets injured and they release him. There is also a minor league pension plan, but it's so hard to find info on it that most minor league players don't even know how it works. According to the video below, in the plan from 2008, you need at least 5 years of service, and you get paid a certain amount a month per year you spent on each level. In the example he gave, a player who spent 2 years in A ball and 3 in AA would get a pension of $82 a month. Players who made it to AAA would get an extra $22 a month for each year they spent there. So if you played for 6 seasons and made it all the way to AAA, you'd get about $100 a month.

 

moondog80

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Pedroia will get his, as he should, and the Sox won't be avoiding the cap hit (which, at 13.75 mil, isn't *that* big of a deal, given their payroll), but isn't there a scenario where they can get some insurance money back?
 

BoSox Rule

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I know it won't happen. But what's the wording in the CBA? That is....suppose Pedroia retires (I know he's not going to give up the money but just work with the thought experiment) and they hire him several years later at an abnormally high salary. How much time needs to go by before the CBA doesn't really have any impact on this? How high is too high a salary?

I mean, Mike Scioscia - a former player - is among the highest paid managers at $6 million. Obviously he's been getting paid a long time before now. But what is the time frame and salary structure such that the Angels paying him this kind of money isn't a violation of the CBA?
Good grief this has to be the worst post I’ve ever seen. He was the fucking manager for like 20 years, you want the Red Sox to get Pedroia to hit fungoes in Spring Training and sit next to Varitek in the dugout for like 8 games a year for around $13 million a year.
 

joe dokes

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Good grief this has to be the worst post I’ve ever seen. He was the fucking manager for like 20 years, you want the Red Sox to get Pedroia to hit fungoes in Spring Training and sit next to Varitek in the dugout for like 8 games a year for around $13 million a year.
Maybe The Window Boys could sign him up to replace Pesky.
 

BaseballJones

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Good grief this has to be the worst post I’ve ever seen. He was the fucking manager for like 20 years, you want the Red Sox to get Pedroia to hit fungoes in Spring Training and sit next to Varitek in the dugout for like 8 games a year for around $13 million a year.
I dropped it. Lesson to me: posting when I'm on two hours' sleep, first thing in the morning, is a bad idea.
 

YTF

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I dropped it. Lesson to me: posting when I'm on two hours' sleep, first thing in the morning, is a bad idea.
This isn't exclusive to you, but I really hate the "lack of sleep", "too much to drink", "haven't had my two cups of coffee yet" excuses for shitty posting. Shitty posting is just that and many here will attest to my expertise on this subject.
 

BaseballJones

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This isn't exclusive to you, but I really hate the "lack of sleep", "too much to drink", "haven't had my two cups of coffee yet" excuses for shitty posting. Shitty posting is just that and many here will attest to my expertise on this subject.
Agreed. Like any other endeavor, sometimes people just do a crappy job from time to time. Not every post is gonna be a winner. And it is good to know the circumstances in which you might not be at the top of your game, and to try to avoid them. That wasn't my best effort.
 

Hawk68

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Pedroia retires, saving the team lots of money in terms of the luxury tax (I guess?). Then the Red Sox hire him as a $25 million consultant for the next two seasons. I'm sure MLB wouldn't like that, but what could they really do about it? It's the team's business if they want to pay people a lot of money for their non-playing services.
This is a moderately well informed board, often too full of itself.

Your implicit question is a good one, and it stands: "How can Red Sox and Pedroia novate the current contract to their mutual benefit?"
 

Savin Hillbilly

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The wrong side of the bridge....
Pedroia will get his, as he should, and the Sox won't be avoiding the cap hit (which, at 13.75 mil, isn't *that* big of a deal, given their payroll), but isn't there a scenario where they can get some insurance money back?
The bolded seems confused to me. The fact that their payroll is as big as it is not only doesn't make the $13.75M less significant, it's the reason why it's significant (see David Wright comments above). The number that matters, in terms of evaluating how much a useless-but-still-on-the-books Pedroia hurts the team, is not their payroll, but how much value $13.75M buys.
 

Manramsclan

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I'm with the Hillbilly. I'm actually quite surprised that there wasn't a trade to get rid of salaries early in the season. I was almost certain that Leon or Nunez would be dumped for a bag of balls. Perhaps they tried that already and that was why Leon cleared waivers etc. Either way, Pedroia being able to play was going to be great in theory, and the fact that he isn't able to, while sad, is more of an issue in that it prevents the Red Sox from improving in other areas. $13 Million of room under the de facto cap* would make a huge difference in acquiring a reliever for the stretch run.

*I know it's not a cap but can we all agree it's easier to refer to a cap as short hand instead of getting into spats about how it isn't a hard cap. "The third luxury tax threshold" is little unwieldy.
 

Lose Remerswaal

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I'm with the Hillbilly. I'm actually quite surprised that there wasn't a trade to get rid of salaries early in the season. I was almost certain that Leon or Nunez would be dumped for a bag of balls. Perhaps they tried that already and that was why Leon cleared waivers
Bingo. You can't turn shit into assets. Leon cleared waivers as he has zero value and a contract above the minimum. Nunez is the same thing. No one will take on his salary when he is not going to be more valuable to them than a B or C level prospect they already have would be, when that prospect is making the minimum.
 

Koji’s Slider

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I was mocked in a game thread, with the rise of Chavis, that the likely outcome for Pedey was they should trade him for anything, outright him, or they’d talk him into retirement. I love Pedey, but the writing has been all the wall for awhile.
 

E5 Yaz

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I was mocked in a game thread, with the rise of Chavis, that the likely outcome for Pedey was they should trade him for anything, outright him, or they’d talk him into retirement. I love Pedey, but the writing has been all the wall for awhile.
You were mocked because a) they can't trade him for various reasons, b) they wouldn't dare outright release him, and c) there's no indication they've talked him into retirement
 

Koji’s Slider

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You were mocked because a) they can't trade him for various reasons, b) they wouldn't dare outright release him, and c) there's no indication they've talked him into retirement
Maybe, but my overall point should have been that he has seen his last day at second base, in a Red Sox uniform.
 

donutogre

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Maybe we can not get into "I told you so" posts here? Doesn't really make for the most enlightening discussion. Was totally reasonable to think he was done, but it was also reasonable to think it was worth seeing exactly what happened when he took the field again.
 

E5 Yaz

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If this were a retirement announcement, why bother with putting him on the 60-day IL?
 

E5 Yaz

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He may not be ready to announce a retirement now, but the 60-day indicates he's probably going to be out for the season and they created a roster spot for someone else on the 40-man.
Exactly. I was trying to question the assumption of some that this had to be retirement
 

RedOctober3829

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deep inside Guido territory

PeteAbe: My understanding is Pedroia is stepping back to reassess the situation but not abandoning his career or anything like that. Will be similar to last year when he went home. Sox now have the roster spot if they need it. He’s getting his salary regardless.
 

donutogre

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PeteAbe: My understanding is Pedroia is stepping back to reassess the situation but not abandoning his career or anything like that. Will be similar to last year when he went home. Sox now have the roster spot if they need it. He’s getting his salary regardless.
Makes sense. And then we do this again in the first third of 2020. At least he's shutting it down for the year (most likely) and the Sox get that roster spot.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Makes sense. And then we do this again in the first third of 2020. At least he's shutting it down for the year (most likely) and the Sox get that roster spot.
60-day DL is not shutting it down for the year necessarily. It isn't like the NFL's injured reserve where there is no expectation or path to return in-season. He could still decide in a month or two to give it another go.
 

Manramsclan

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This all just makes me sad. I love Dustin.

Bingo. You can't turn shit into assets. Leon cleared waivers as he has zero value and a contract above the minimum. Nunez is the same thing. No one will take on his salary when he is not going to be more valuable to them than a B or C level prospect they already have would be, when that prospect is making the minimum.
Agreed. This is one of those cases where I think Dombrowski has not evolved with the game. Paying Nunez the salary he got when he probably thought he could trade him if he needed to not for assets necessarily, but for -$5m off of the payroll. Problem is that the only guy who still operates that way was Sabean, and not only did he take a step back from Baseball Operations in SF, but he also traded Nunez to the Sox.

A few of those types of moves (Moreland, Nunez, Pearce) in isolation aren't a big deal, but in aggregate have this team's payroll in a tough spot especially if injury or ineffectiveness make them useless to the team.