Pedro, Smoltz, Biggio, and RJ get into HOF

Snodgrass'Muff

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Pedro asked if whether guys who are linked to PEDs should be able to get into the hall.
 
He immediately turns it around, in his charming and subtle way, on the writers. "It's a tough question because I don't vote. You guys are the one's... you guys bring out the truth of it."
 

amfox1

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HangingW/ScottCooper said:
Hoffman gets in on the 1st ballot because there are no steroid suspicions about him. Add in the run of closers going in over the last 10 years and I'd be shocked if he doesn't get in next year.
 
Griffey and Piazza are locks next year.  I'd expect Griffey to be in the high 80s and Piazza in the low 80s.
 
Raines and Bagwell are possible electees but could end up in the low 70s.  
 
Schilling probably jumps into the mid-to-upper 50s as he benefits from the clearing out of so many pitchers in the last two years.  
 
Clemens, Bonds, Mussina (another one who benefits from the clearing out of pitchers) and first-timer Hoffman probably end up in the mid-40s.  
 
The last two votes get split among the closers (Smith, Hoffman, Wagner) and the rest of the field.
 
With no locks on the ballot in 2017 (before Chipper/Thome in 2018), I'd expect Raines, Bagwell and Schilling to get in then, if not elected next year.
 

E5 Yaz

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amfox1 said:
 
 
Griffey and Piazza are locks next year.  I'd expect Griffey to be in the high 80s and Piazza in the low 80s.
 
Raines and Bagwell are possible electees but could end up in the low 70s.  
 
Schilling probably jumps into the mid-to-upper 50s as he benefits from the clearing out of so many pitchers in the last two years.  
 
Clemens, Bonds, Mussina (another one who benefits from the clearing out of pitchers) and first-timer Hoffman probably end up in the mid-40s.  
 
The last two votes get split among the closers (Smith, Hoffman, Wagner) and the rest of the field.
 
 
You're way under-estimating what Hoffman will get
 

E5 Yaz

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soxhop411 said:
So when do the Sox retire his number?
 
When do the Yankees come to town?
 
Funny to learn today that Pedro and Randy never faced each other as starting pitchers
 

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HangingW/ScottCooper said:
 
That's correct. I asked last year and they thought he would be eligible after the Red Sox HOF election, but I guess that's not as definitive as the real Hall of Fame. Player t-shirts and Jerseys will be available for purchase before the induction ceremony. I wouldn't be surprised to see them available within the month.
 
Fucking awesome.  Now just need to get a '99 All-Star Game sleeve patch to add to one.
 

E5 Yaz

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Pedro and Randy join the 90 percent or better club in HoF voting
 
Player Year Voters Votes Percentage
Tom Seaver 1992 430 425 98.84% 
Nolan Ryan 1999 497 491 98.79%
Cal Ripken, Jr 2007 545 537 98.53%
Ty Cobb 1936 226 222 98.23%
George Brett 1999 497 488 98.19%
Hank Aaron 1982 415 406 97.83%
Tony Gwynn 2007 545 532 97.61%
Greg Maddux 2014 571 555 97.20%
Mike Schmidt 1995 460 444 96.52%
Johnny Bench 1989 447 431 96.42%
Steve Carlton 1994 455 436 95.82%
Babe Ruth 1936 226 215 95.13%
Honus Wagner 1936 226 215 95.13%
Rickey Henderson 2009 539 511 94.81%
Willie Mays 1979 432 409 94.68%
Carl Yastrzemski 1989 447 423 94.63%
Bob Feller 1962 160 150 93.75%
Reggie Jackson 1993 423 396 93.62%
Ted Williams 1966 302 282 93.38%
Stan Musial 1969 340 317 93.24%
Roberto Clemente 1973 424 393 92.69%
Jim Palmer 1990 444 411 92.57%
Brooks Robinson 1983 374 344 91.98%
Tom Glavine 2014 571 525 91.94%
Wade Boggs 2005 516 474 91.86%
Ozzie Smith 2002 472 433 91.74%
Christy Mathewson 1936 226 205 90.71%
Rod Carew 1991 443 401 90.52%
Roberto Alomar 2011 581 523 90.01%
 

mauidano

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Missed Schill on Baeball Tonight on ESPN. Anyone catch it? Interesting to hear his take on the days events....maybe.
 

E5 Yaz

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mauidano said:
Missed Schill on Baeball Tonight on ESPN. Anyone catch it? Interesting to hear his take on the days events....maybe.
 
Said that the HoF voting was an evolving process
 

Jim Ed Rice in HOF

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soxhop411 said:
So when do the Sox retire his number?
Pedro's induction is July 26th, exactly 6 years after Rice. Rice's number was retired two days later. The Sox are home the last week of July so I would expect it then.
 

MyDaughterLovesTomGordon

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Smiling Joe Hesketh said:
Never mind Erstad, Tom Gordon got TWO votes.
 
Hey!
 
Lifetime ERA+ of 113, including two years over 150 and one year over 200, 138 W and 158 Svs (more saves than HoFer Smoltz!), 3-time All-Star, runner-up for rookie of the year, 34.9 B-Ref WAR, 36th all-time in K/9, 60th all-time in WPA. Lifetime FIP of 3.71.
 
The man had an enviable career by many standards. 
 
Way better than Erstad and his piddling 32.3 B-Ref WAR. 
 

E5 Yaz

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Jim Ed Rice in HOF said:
Pedro's induction is July 26th, exactly 6 years after Rice. Rice's number was retired two days later. The Sox are home the last week of July so I would expect it then.
 
July 31-Aug 2 against Tampa Bay ... that would be perfect
 

cannonball 1729

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Papelbon's Poutine said:
Fisk only played ten if you count his cups of coffee. Pesky neither played ten nor made the HoF. I don't think it'll be an issue.
 
I think they now count time spent with the organization as a non-playing member as part of the ten years.  (I remember this being mentioned when Fisk was inducted.)  By the time Pedro is inducted, he'll have been a special assistant for 2.5 years, meaning that he'll be in his tenth year with the organization.
 

JohntheBaptist

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Rudy Pemberton said:
Not to mention that team policy can be changed at any time and for whatever reason . It's not carved in stone.
 
Yeah, one of the old criteria was that a player had spent his entire career in Boston, which I believe the new ownership nixed.
 

pjr

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https://twitter.com/PeteAbe/status/552622421510201346



Pete Abraham
@PeteAbe




No word on No. 45 being retired. But #RedSox say they will honor Pedro Martinez at Fenway on July 28.
 

mt8thsw9th

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JohntheBaptist said:
 
Yeah, one of the old criteria was that a player had spent his entire career in Boston, which I believe the new ownership nixed.
 
Fisk's number was retired in 2000. I have no idea why they don't change it to "hat on the plaque, number retired". Let obvious, rare exceptions like Pesky work themselves out. That Boggs' number hasn't been retired yet is pretty bizarre. 
 

RidetheSeal

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Was having a shit day today then came here and saw the induction news and since then have had such a warm and fuzzy. Watched Pedro's PC and heard his interview on WEEI and just endeared me to him even more. The stuff about his parents in the PC was really touching. This guy is the stuff legends are made of. He's a once in a generation pitcher and I'm so grateful I got to see him pitch in his prime. It's just hard to put his talent and what an event it was every time he pitched, into coherent words, not to mention what a fighter he was. Really happy and emotional today about this. Wish I could attend the ceremonies but I don't think that's likely but I'm definitely going to be buying a Martinez jersey. I fucking love Pedro.
 

canderson

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pjr said:
https://twitter.com/PeteAbe/status/552622421510201346Pete Abraham@PeteAbeNo word on No. 45 being retired. But #RedSox say they will honor Pedro Martinez at Fenway on July 28.
Ugh, on a Tuesday so no way can I go. Damnit.
 

Marciano490

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Why is McGriff so far off? Just never the best player at his position during his career?
 

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Marciano490 said:
Why is McGriff so far off? Just never the best player at his position during his career?
 
Definitely overshadowed by positional peers like Thomas, McGwire, Bagwell, Fielder.  In the season he finished highest in the MVP voting, he didn't even make the All Star team (Kruk, Galarraga, Jeffries, and Grace all did).  I think he's gotten some support because he partially pre-dates the steroid era (so he's considered "clean"), but he's so far from getting in for much the same reason that Delgado is now off the ballot: a lengthy career of very good at a rather saturated position, but never had that one huge stand-out season.  No MVPs, relatively few All Star selections and Silver Slugger awards given how long he played.
 

reggiecleveland

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McGriff also went the wrong way in the Jays/Padres trade. He was a much better player than Joe Carter, but was the price of acquiring Alomar. He was a quiet guy that left Toronto during the only real high profile time in the franchise's history.
 

ItOnceWasMyLife

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Pedro will be lucky number 13 in the hall to wear a sox cap.  Maybe his plaque will be sponsored by the jheri-curl.
 

worm0082

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mt8thsw9th said:
 
Fisk's number was retired in 2000. I have no idea why they don't change it to "hat on the plaque, number retired". Let obvious, rare exceptions like Pesky work themselves out. That Boggs' number hasn't been retired yet is pretty bizarre. 
I don't believe it should be but I'm kinda surprised Eckersley's 43 isn't up.  8 years with team, finished with Sox, working for NESN so long now....  
 

TheoShmeo

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Does anyone know the name of the guy who Pedro was having lunch with when he got the phone call from the Hall?
 
As to the steroids thing, I have three reactions.  One, Pedro did talk about the issue a lot yesterday, and his continued emphasis on the topic essentially forced some related discussion.  Two, anyone who has heard extended interviews of Pedro over the last few years should not have been surprised by that; that he was clean in the steroids era is one of his consistent themes.  Three, that Felger played the part of the "I'm not going to come and say it but darn there are some questions here" was of course no surprise and, for me at least, therefore not upsetting.  Felger can't help himself.
 

JimD

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I'm guessing that Pedro picks Marichal to do his introduction at the ceremony.
 

Jim Ed Rice in HOF

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santadevil said:
I thought they didn't get to choose anymore?
They don't, although their preference is taken into account. From Wikipedia (I know, I know):
 
 
While the text on a player's or manager's plaque lists all teams for which the inductee was a member in that specific role, inductees are usually depicted wearing the cap of a specific team, though in a few cases, like umpires, they wear caps without logos. (Executives are not depicted wearing caps.) The Hall selects the logo "based on where that player makes his most indelible mark."[26]
Although the Hall always made the final decision on which logo was shown, until 2001 the Hall deferred to the wishes of players or managers whose careers were linked with multiple teams. Some examples of honorees associated with multiple teams are the following:
  • Frank Robinson: Robinson chose to have the Baltimore Orioles cap displayed on his plaque, although he had played ten seasons with the Cincinnati Reds and six seasons with Baltimore. Robinson won four pennants and two World Series with the Orioles and one pennant with Cincinnati. His second World Series ring came in the 1970 World Series against the Reds. Robinson also won an MVP award while playing for each team.
  • Catfish Hunter: Hunter chose not to have any logo on his cap when elected to the Hall of Fame in 1987. Hunter had success for both the teams for which he played – the Kansas City/Oakland Athletics and the New York Yankees; during and after his career he maintained good relations with both teams and their respective owners (Charles Finley and George Steinbrenner) and did not wish to slight either team by selecting the other.
  • Nolan Ryan: Born and raised in Texas, Ryan entered the Hall in 1999 wearing a Texas Rangers cap on his plaque, although he spent only five seasons with the Rangers, while raised in the Houston area and having longer and more successful tenures with the Houston Astros (nine seasons, 1980–88 and his record-setting fifth career no-hitter) and California Angels (eight seasons, 1972–79 and the first four of his seven career no-hitters). Ryan's only championship was as a member of the New York Mets in1969. Ryan finished his career with the Rangers, reaching his 5000th strikeout and 300th win, and throwing the last two of his no-hitters. Ryan later took ownership of the Rangers when they were sold to his Rangers Baseball Express group in 2010. He sold his Rangers interest in 2013 and is now in the Astros' front office.
  • Reggie Jackson: Jackson chose to be depicted with a Yankees cap over an Athletics cap. As a member of the Kansas City/Oakland A's, Jackson played ten seasons (1967–75, '87), winning three World Series (197219731974) and the 1973 AL MVP Award. During his five years in New York (1977–81), Jackson won two World Series (197778), with his crowning achievement occurring during Game Six of the 1977 World Series, when he hit three home runs on consecutive pitches and earned his nickname "Mr. October".
  • Carlton Fisk: Fisk went into the hall with a Boston Red Sox cap on his plaque in 2000 despite playing with the Chicago White Sox longer and posting more significant numbers with the White Sox. Fisk's choice of the Red Sox was likely because of his being aNew England native, as well as his famous "Stay fair!" walk-off home run in Game Six of the 1975 World Series with which he is most associated.
  • Sparky Anderson: Also in 2000, Anderson entered the Hall with a Cincinnati Reds cap on his plaque despite managing almost twice as many seasons with the Detroit Tigers (17 in Detroit; nine in Cincinnati). He chose the Reds to honor that team's former general manager Bob Howsam, who gave him his first major-league managing job. Anderson won two World Series with the Reds and one with the Tigers.
  • Dave Winfield: Winfield had spent the most years in his career with the Yankees and had had great success there, but chose to go into the Hall as a member of the San Diego Padres due to his feud with Yankees owner George Steinbrenner.
In 2001, the Hall of Fame decided to change the policy on cap logo selection, as a result of rumors that some teams were offering compensation, such as number retirement, money, or organizational jobs, in exchange for the cap designation. (For example, though Wade Boggs denied the claims, some media reports had said that his contract with the Tampa Bay Devil Rays required him to request depiction in the Hall of Fame as a Devil Ray.)[27] The Hall decided that it would no longer defer to the inductee, though the player's wishes would be considered, when deciding on the logo to appear on the plaque. Newly elected members affected by the change include the following:
  • Gary Carter: Inducted in 2003, Carter was the first player to be affected by the new policy. Carter won his only championship with the 1986 New York Mets, and wanted his induction plaque to depict him wearing a Mets cap, though he had spent twelve years (1974–84, 1992) with the Montreal Expos and five (1985–89) with the Mets. The Hall of Fame decided that Carter's impact on the Montreal franchise warranted depicting him with an Expos cap.[28]
  • Wade Boggs: Boggs's only championship was as a member of the 1996 New York Yankees, for whom he played from 1993–97, but his best career numbers were posted during his eleven years (1982–92) wearing the Boston Red Sox uniform. Boggs would eventually be depicted wearing a Boston cap for his 2005 induction.
  • Andre Dawson: Dawson's cap depicts him as a member of the Expos, his team for eleven years, despite his expressed preference to be shown as a member of the Chicago Cubs. While Dawson played only six years with the Cubs, five of his eight All-Star appearances were as a Cub, and his only MVP award came in his first year with the team in 1987.[29][30]
  • Tony La Russa: La Russa managed three teams in a 33-year career in that role—the Chicago White Sox, Oakland Athletics, and St. Louis Cardinals. His greatest successes were with the A's (three pennants and a World Series title in 10 years) and Cardinals (three pennants and two World Series in 16 years). Nonetheless, La Russa felt that his induction to the Hall was due to his tenures with all three teams, and stated that not including a logo meant that "fans of all [three] clubs can celebrate this honor with me."[31]
  • Greg Maddux: Although Maddux had his greatest success while with the Atlanta Braves for 11 seasons, he had two stints with the Chicago Cubs for a total of 10 seasons, including the first seven of his MLB career. Maddux believed that both fanbases were equally important in his career, and so the cap on his plaque does not feature any logo.[31]
 

JimBoSox9

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Everyone should stop what they're doing and watch the 5:00 mark of this video.  Pedro demonstrates how his fingers let him throw the Lord's Changeup, with two dominant HOF pitchers standing next to him shaking their heads in disbelief and, yes, a little bit of jealousy and frustration.  Smoltzie had just talked about how Maddux and Glavine could never teach him a changup; you could almost see him calculating what his vote percentage would have been with those hands.
 
http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/7417714/v37113417/darling-speaks-with-2015-hof-class-pitchers
 

Jim Ed Rice in HOF

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JimBoSox9 said:
Smoltzie had just talked about how Maddux and Glavine could never teach him a changup; you could almost see him calculating what his vote percentage would have been with those hands.
 
 
The shiteating grin on Pedro's face when Smoltz is saying that (around 2:40). You can almost hear Pedro saying "piece of cake".
 

gaelgirl

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canderson said:
Will Randy Johnson go in as a Dback or Mariner?
Neither, he will clearly go in as a San Francisco Giant, where he spent the best year of his career. ;) Actually, I suspect he will be either a blank hat or a Diamondback. It's a more important decision than most because neither the Mariners nor the Diamondbacks have a player in the Hall of Fame.
 
Looking at that list of 90+ percent inductees, it's clear that this process has never made sense. Babe Ruth and Willie Mays both got about 95 percent of the vote. What was the issue with the other five percent of voters? Is there any sound or reasonable argument against these guys? I guess with Ruth, you can argue that he was competing against the whole of baseball history up to that point, so maybe the vote was diluted a bit. 
 
One dude this year, Jerry Green, voted for Clemens and McGwire... but not Bonds. He wrote a column about his votes, but didn't mention Bonds or how he came to determine Mark McGwire earned a vote and Bonds did not when by every conceivable metric Bonds was miles better. It's a great article, though, and demonstrates that he takes the voting seriously and laments his colleagues that do not: http://www.detroitnews.com/story/opinion/columnists/jerry-green/2015/01/03/green-hall-fame-voting-serious-business/21242617/ 
 
It upsets me to no end the grandstanding over PEDs now, when the players involved are for the most part retired. The players the same writers voted in as Cy Youngs and MVPs even after they suspected or even knew the players used PEDs. The PEDs that the same writers for years never cared to investigate when it was becoming fairly clear that they were infiltrating the sport. But *now* they grandstand and lament about the integrity of the game. It's all a load of nonsense. They excuse some forms of cheating (amphetamines, doctoring the ball) while excluding this one specific form. Yet they don't *really* know who was clean and who was not. Surely there are steroid users enshrined already, and will be again in the future. Some combat this by never voting for anyone in the era, which is the antithesis of fairness.
 
There are suspected murderers and hideously racist members of the Hall. There are even gamblers who bet on the game. It's highly probable Ty Cobb was all three... and he's there. But let us not sully the reputation of this hallowed institution with players who worked ridiculously hard to achieve greatness, including using substances they shouldn't have used but virtually everyone in the game ignored for years because nobody wanted to stop the gravy train.