Pearl Jammin' with Grandpa, the Bill Simmons Thread

luckiestman

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If I can speak for another poster, you’re interpreting it wrong.

“This actor gives this vibe so I would cast her” has value or at least can lead to an interesting discussion.

“This woman is hotter to me” does not.

Maybe but does being attractive not add to someone's vibe? Could Danny Devito have pulled off the vibe of Marion Cobretti? Why or why not? I think people experience cognitive dissonance about this; I feel it. Actors are often cast in roles because they are beautiful. Bill stating in some instances that he would like someone in the role to be even more beautiful is viewed as gross. Why? I expect some answer about objectification but my response to that is that the whole exercise, major motion pictures, is one of objectification so why does Bill going one step further seem so out of touch?
 

johnmd20

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Simmons with an all time take today comparing the pain of being a Vikings fan over the last 30 years to being a Sox fan because they traded Mookie Betts and that was just so painful that put Simmons off baseball in 2020. The 24-36 record had nothing to do with it.

But Simmons is back in on the Sox this year, because he just can't give up on baseball. The playoff appearance and beating the Yankees in the wildcard game had nothing to do with it, I'm sure.
 

Pablo's TB Lover

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Simmons with an all time take today comparing the pain of being a Vikings fan over the last 30 years to being a Sox fan because they traded Mookie Betts and that was just so painful that put Simmons off baseball in 2020. The 24-36 record had nothing to do with it.

But Simmons is back in on the Sox this year, because he just can't give up on baseball. The playoff appearance and beating the Yankees in the wildcard game had nothing to do with it, I'm sure.
That's amazing, now I have to listen just to make sure it was said unironically. The White Sox instead? Maybe a valid comparison, although they do have a title in the last 30 years.
 

cheech13

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I liked it when they are mock-praising Simmons for pronouncing Goran Dragic's name correctly and Simmons kiddingly ascribes it to having gone to pronunciation camp. You can hear Rusillo murmur something like "tell that to Reggie Bullock" (Bill had referred to liking "Reggie BULL-ock" about 5 minutes earlier)
In Part 2 the name thing comes up again and Russillo mutters under his breath, “M-aaahhh-nk.” Simmons doesn’t sell it but I died.
 

Leather

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Your view seems to be that we should all be in on the big lie where we pretend these roles (male and female) are cast independent of looks. Am I interpreting that wrong?

"She looked great". "She looks the part." "She was beautiful." "She was a young blonde that would have worked." "She could be imposing." "She was [ethnicity if it matters] and would make a believable love interest."

These are all statements that are pretty benign and get the point across fine without being overly objectifying. Most of Bill's comments don't even relate to the movie being discussed. Even his fellow commenters have, from time to time, ribbed him for some dubious comments he's made about young actresses.
 

scottyno

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Simmons with an all time take today comparing the pain of being a Vikings fan over the last 30 years to being a Sox fan because they traded Mookie Betts and that was just so painful that put Simmons off baseball in 2020. The 24-36 record had nothing to do with it.

But Simmons is back in on the Sox this year, because he just can't give up on baseball. The playoff appearance and beating the Yankees in the wildcard game had nothing to do with it, I'm sure.
So he'd fit right in with many on the general board if he wants to come back.
 

Dave Stapleton

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Simmons with an all time take today comparing the pain of being a Vikings fan over the last 30 years to being a Sox fan because they traded Mookie Betts and that was just so painful that put Simmons off baseball in 2020. The 24-36 record had nothing to do with it.

But Simmons is back in on the Sox this year, because he just can't give up on baseball. The playoff appearance and beating the Yankees in the wildcard game had nothing to do with it, I'm sure.
He’s been pretty consistent last year and this year on his feelings. Checked out last year because he felt betrayed by the owners. This year was onboard immediately because he loved the players and the team (laundry cart, etc.). Talked about how he watched a ton of games and was more engaged than he had been in years.

Was he neurotic when the Sox went down the tubes and MFYs were streaking? Yeah like many on here but his bandwagon jumping was very early on.
 

Kliq

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Sal's intro on the pod and celebration of the Cowboys winning was hilarious. I don't think I've ever heard him so excited.
 

ManicCompression

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The Color Of Money is one of my all-time favorite movies and the fact that Bill Simmons does not understand Fast Eddie Felson's arc, going all the way back to the Hustler, is mind-boggling to me. Thank god Fennessey and Ryan were on the pod because Bill would've ruined this one if it was a two-person.

Also, Bill peacocking that he was hustling in Boston pool halls in the 90s strains the imagination. He's a very talented person who seems totally incapable of pulling a con.
 

Vinho Tinto

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Also, Bill peacocking that he was hustling in Boston pool halls in the 90s strains the imagination. He's a very talented person who seems totally incapable of pulling a con.
Never spent too much time in pool halls, but my family owned a bar for a number of years. The number one cause for fist fights were arguments over a pool game. Fights over men/women was a close second. Even if you loathe working 9-5, there has to be an easier way to make a buck than pool hustling.
 

luckiestman

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Also, Bill peacocking that he was hustling in Boston pool halls in the 90s strains the imagination. He's a very talented person who seems totally incapable of pulling a con.
I also doubt he was hustling. He may have won money shooting pool. My dad grew up shooting pool in my great-grandfathers bar and when I was young I saw him win a lot of pool games in bars but he wasn’t hustling anyone. I could see Bill being decent since he had a table at his house.

As for the pod. I thought it was incredible. This might be sad, I don’t know, but I’m going to say it. When I’m driving on a low traffic Merrit Parkway with the moon roof open on a crisp long shadowed October morning while drinking a warm cup of coffee and setting the heat to get the perfect temperature in the car and I’m listening to a great episode of the Rewatchables, I don’t think I can get much happier than that. Every sense is content. Eyes on the road but not darting, not tense. Ears on the pod, the smell and taste of coffee mixed with the crisp air, the sun and perfect temperature on the skin, and my brain not racing, it’s at a perfect wavelength. This is about as happy as I can get.
 

ManicCompression

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I also doubt he was hustling. He may have won money shooting pool. My dad grew up shooting pool in my great-grandfathers bar and when I was young I saw him win a lot of pool games in bars but he wasn’t hustling anyone. I could see Bill being decent since he had a table at his house.

As for the pod. I thought it was incredible. This might be sad, I don’t know, but I’m going to say it. When I’m driving on a low traffic Merrit Parkway with the moon roof open on a crisp long shadowed October morning while drinking a warm cup of coffee and setting the heat to get the perfect temperature in the car and I’m listening to a great episode of the Rewatchables, I don’t think I can get much happier than that. Every sense is content. Eyes on the road but not darting, not tense. Ears on the pod, the smell and taste of coffee mixed with the crisp air, the sun and perfect temperature on the skin, and my brain not racing, it’s at a perfect wavelength. This is about as happy as I can get.
I mean, I'm co-signing that it's an enjoyable listen. If it was just a dry discussion of film theory, I probably wouldn't waste the time. I'm just thankful Fennessey and Ryan were there to push back on him when he says ridiculous stuff like "You just spent all this time teaching Cruise how to hustle, why forfeit?" It's absurd and hilarious, as if Bill just doesn't understand really basic things about story. I've said before that he's the foil and it's at its best when multiple people team up against his silly interjections. This was a great example.

And the hustling thing is also funny - there's no need for him to pretend like this was a thing he did, but he just can't resist throwing it out there with a vague "I did some things, we'll just leave it at that" - not sharing details because there are no details to be shared. Maybe I'm projecting, but I feel like you can hear Fennessey and Ryan egging him on, like "oh, tell us more" because they know he's full of shit, too, and they want to catch him in the lie.

The more I think about it, he is Vince from the Color of Money. He doesn't have character, he is a character. He's a flake. He can't resist the attention from doing karate work with his pool cue as he's running the table.
 

luckiestman

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The more I think about it, he is Vince from the Color of Money. He doesn't have character, he is a character. He's a flake. He can't resist the attention from doing karate work with his pool cue as he's running the table.
I can’t even or won’t even disagree with this. I guess where we do disagree is that I don’t think this is something to criticize I think it’s something to celebrate.
 

Leather

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The Color Of Money is one of my all-time favorite movies and the fact that Bill Simmons does not understand Fast Eddie Felson's arc, going all the way back to the Hustler, is mind-boggling to me. Thank god Fennessey and Ryan were on the pod because Bill would've ruined this one if it was a two-person.

Also, Bill peacocking that he was hustling in Boston pool halls in the 90s strains the imagination. He's a very talented person who seems totally incapable of pulling a con.
In The Hustler, Eddie Felson is accused of having "No character" by Bert (the antagonist) and a "born loser." In The Color of Money, after he sees himself in the 8 ball reflection, doesn't like what he sees, and forfeits (and gives the money back to Vincent), Janelle says "I like you because you have character." Then he tells Vincent that even if Vincent beats him in the green room at the end of the movie, he'll beat him in Houston. Or in New Orleans. He'll keep coming back and beat him someday. He's not a loser, and he's back to prove it.

So it's pretty obvious that the journey for Eddie Felson is back to one of self respect.

That said, I think Simmons *knows* this. I think when he says stuff like "Why doesn't he just keep hustling?" he's playing a little dumb in the "Com'mon man! It would be cool to have all that money!" sense. He adores buddy movies (preferably buddy-caper movies when they involve gambling), and that's what Color of Money is for about 3/4 of its length until it turns into a story about the Eddie Felson character. Simmons would just prefer it stayed that way.
 

ManicCompression

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In The Hustler, Eddie Felson is accused of having "No character" by Bert (the antagonist) and a "born loser." In The Color of Money, after he sees himself in the 8 ball reflection, doesn't like what he sees, and forfeits (and gives the money back to Vincent), Janelle says "I like you because you have character." Then he tells Vincent that even if Vincent beats him in the green room at the end of the movie, he'll beat him in Houston. Or in New Orleans. He'll keep coming back and beat him someday. He's not a loser, and he's back to prove it.

So it's pretty obvious that the journey for Eddie Felson is back to one of self respect.

That said, I think Simmons *knows* this. I think when he says stuff like "Why doesn't he just keep hustling?" he's playing a little dumb in the "Com'mon man! It would be cool to have all that money!" sense. He adores buddy movies (preferably buddy-caper movies when they involve gambling), and that's what Color of Money is for about 3/4 of its length until it turns into a story about the Eddie Felson character. Simmons would just prefer it stayed that way.
Does Simmons know that? I don't think he's playing dumb - it's not like Chris and Sean are playing along, they're earnestly trying to explain to him the ending of the movie. You're right - Felson realizes that self-respect is far more valuable than cash. So if the movie ended with him taking the money and him and Vincent re-teaming up to go hustle across the country, it would be pretty hokey and incomprehensible as an arc.
 

Kliq

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Adande made reference to this at the end of their pod on the NBA Top 75:

Medill launches new scholarship to serve HBCU alumni enrolling in the sports journalism program.

Funded by the Simmons Family Foundation.
I heard that as well and don't believe that Simmons has ever mentioned it himself, although I don't listen to every pod.

Adande and Bill are tremendous together, by the way, and I would love it if they had a weekly NBA pod (although that won't happen, both guys are way too busy).
 

Leather

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Does Simmons know that? I don't think he's playing dumb - it's not like Chris and Sean are playing along, they're earnestly trying to explain to him the ending of the movie. You're right - Felson realizes that self-respect is far more valuable than cash. So if the movie ended with him taking the money and him and Vincent re-teaming up to go hustle across the country, it would be pretty hokey and incomprehensible as an arc.
I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt that he's just stirring the pot for discussion.

One moment in that episode that I thought was kind of embarrassing was that Chris highlighted that the music lined up with Cruise's Chalky's pool scene (the "Werewolves of London" one) and how difficult it must have been to pull off the timing of the shots to the music. Simmons kind of uses it to talk about fucking Cocktail. Then, not 3 minutes later, Simmons says about that same scene (paraphrasing): "And I was thinking, man to line up that music with the pool it must have been a lot of takes! To line it up like that!" and Chris and Ryan just kind of let it go, but I bet Chris was thinking "WTF, Bill, I literally JUST talked about that."

I will say that Simmons is off about the 80s Clapton material. It's awful.
 

johnmd20

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I'd really like some information on the foundation. I can find nothing.
Why do you want information on a foundation? It's a pool of money given for tax purposes in hopes of giving to causes you care about.

But foundations are private. You won't find any information about them, unless they do public stuff like this HBCU scholarship.
 

jose melendez

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It's a charity, whether it's solely funded by Bill's money or not. A lot of athletes have them and a lot of them are poorly run tax rackets. I'm just curious is all. I'd kind of like to see if it's a bunch of Bill's relatives drawing salaries, in part because the Ringer does quite a bit of that.

I basically like Bill, but I'm always suspicious of people starting their own foundations.
 

TheGazelle

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It's a charity, whether it's solely funded by Bill's money or not. A lot of athletes have them and a lot of them are poorly run tax rackets. I'm just curious is all. I'd kind of like to see if it's a bunch of Bill's relatives drawing salaries, in part because the Ringer does quite a bit of that.

I basically like Bill, but I'm always suspicious of people starting their own foundations.
Yeah. A few years ago my wife was doing some local fundraising, and a family friend gave some money from "the [Husband and wife] Foundation." These are normal, albeit successful, folks - not the type of people you would think of setting up a private foundation. After a little investigation (e.g. a few gentle questions at a dinner party after the dude had 3 scotches), it's pretty obvious that it was a way to funnel money to their two kids as the "trustees" or whatever of the foundation. Total BS.
 

8slim

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Man, tough crowd. I have a suspicion that Bill set up a charitable foundation to do some good, due to the unfathomable wealth he has accumulated over the past decade-and-a-half. And I'm sure there are tax advantages to doing so. Whatever.
 

johnmd20

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Man, tough crowd. I have a suspicion that Bill set up a charitable foundation to do some good, due to the unfathomable wealth he has accumulated over the past decade-and-a-half. And I'm sure there are tax advantages to doing so. Whatever.
Simmons started a scholarship program designed to assist graduates from HBCU's and people are like, "I want to know more, looks shady to me."

Yes, you can use foundations to dodge taxes and potentially employ family members. You still have to put up the money to start the foundation. And you can also use foundations to assist in places you want to try to improve. Definitely a tough crowd. Abject cynicism about everything must be exhausting. Or dark.
 

luckiestman

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Simmons started a scholarship program designed to assist graduates from HBCU's and people are like, "I want to know more, looks shady to me."

Yes, you can use foundations to dodge taxes and potentially employ family members. You still have to put up the money to start the foundation. And you can also use foundations to assist in places you want to try to improve. Definitely a tough crowd. Abject cynicism about everything must be exhausting. Or dark.
I think I’ve said this story before but I’ll tell it again. I never rooted for Carmelo Anthony, as a player, I actually liked how much I didnt like Carmelo Anthony. Especially when he was with the Knicks I loved to share my dislike with my students and colleagues who were Knicks fans. I was at some conference in Baltimore (where Anthony is from) and started talking to someone about basketball and he just throws it out there that quote “Carmelo Anthony has a HEART OF GOLD”. I was like please don’t tell me this, man. Then he starts talking about everything Marshmellow does. I have never been able to drum up my sports hate the same way I used to.
 

jmcc5400

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Kind of enjoying the "better or worse winning percentage than Kyle Shanahan" game. Mentions of Walt Michaels and Tony Sparano made me laugh out loud.

Edit: On today's Guess the Lines with Sal. (they also did their Mike and the Mad Dog routine that always makes me laugh)
 

CaptainLaddie

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I was frustrated listening to Simmons list his top 10 QBs ever... and then a bunch more without mentioning Steve Young. I know Young's career was a bit odd insomuch as he didn't really start until he was 30 (save his age 25 year), but... he won 2 MVPs! He has 3 All-Pro years! He made 7 Pro Bowls, and won a Super Bowl as a starter (and has 2 more rings as well as a backup). Not even a mention as the #10 over Ben?
 

Mugsy's Jock

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I was frustrated listening to Simmons list his top 10 QBs ever... and then a bunch more without mentioning Steve Young. I know Young's career was a bit odd insomuch as he didn't really start until he was 30 (save his age 25 year), but... he won 2 MVPs! He has 3 All-Pro years! He made 7 Pro Bowls, and won a Super Bowl as a starter (and has 2 more rings as well as a backup). Not even a mention as the #10 over Ben?
Agreed. Also think Jim Kelly >>> Ben Roethlisberger, though possible my heart is shouting down my head.
 

ifmanis5

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I was frustrated listening to Simmons list his top 10 QBs ever... and then a bunch more without mentioning Steve Young. I know Young's career was a bit odd insomuch as he didn't really start until he was 30 (save his age 25 year), but... he won 2 MVPs! He has 3 All-Pro years! He made 7 Pro Bowls, and won a Super Bowl as a starter (and has 2 more rings as well as a backup). Not even a mention as the #10 over Ben?
Yeah, it's one thing to miss guys when you're off the top of your head but Bill was saying he looked it up and did his own research. You missed Young, Bradshaw and Staubach? I was in disbelief. All they had to do was Google the recent top QB's of all time list the NFL just did and take off the old guys. Although, I would not take off the old guys, even if you did that, you'd get a decent list: NFL.com List of Top QB's
 

johnmd20

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Agreed. Also think Jim Kelly >>> Ben Roethlisberger, though possible my heart is shouting down my head.
Your heart is accurate. Kelly most certainly had a better career than Ben.

Ben R is not in the top 10 of all time and Simmons is saying this feels click baity.

edit - and putting Ben over Kurt Warner is just obnoxious.

final edit - is Ben even in the top 25? Probably not.
 

luckiestman

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Your heart is accurate. Kelly most certainly had a better career than Ben.

Ben R is not in the top 10 of all time and Simmons is saying this feels click baity.

edit - and putting Ben over Kurt Warner is just obnoxious.

final edit - is Ben even in the top 25? Probably not.
Ben is top 5 in wins with a good winning percentage and plays his home games in shitty weather. I’m surprised looking up his info how good he looks.
 

luckiestman

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Yeah, it's one thing to miss guys when you're off the top of your head but Bill was saying he looked it up and did his own research. You missed Young, Bradshaw and Staubach? I was in disbelief. All they had to do was Google the recent top QB's of all time list the NFL just did and take off the old guys. Although, I would not take off the old guys, even if you did that, you'd get a decent list: NFL.com List of Top QB's

So Staubach is one of the few guy with a better winning percentage but he won about half as many games (a way shorter career).
 

luckiestman

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The Ben thing is interesting because I thought “no way” when I heard and I said let me just think about guys I watched play:

Brady
Montana
Elway
Manning
Rodgers
Favre
Marino
Brees
Wilson (on pace to be better, 60 wins down, same winning pct)
Steve Young? 66 fewer wins at a worse percentage
Warner is almost 100 fewer with a worse percentage
 

ManicCompression

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You missed Young, Bradshaw and Staubach?
Terry Bradshaw? He barely had a 50% completion percentage and his career TD/INT is 1:1, all while being surrounded by hall of famers. I understand the era and whatnot, but he does not stand out to me as someone who's so obviously a top ten QB compared to Big Ben.
 

ifmanis5

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Terry Bradshaw? He barely had a 50% completion percentage and his career TD/INT is 1:1, all while being surrounded by hall of famers. I understand the era and whatnot, but he does not stand out to me as someone who's so obviously a top ten QB compared to Big Ben.
Yeah, the era counts. It's a hell of a lot easier to put up big passing stats now (see Stafford, Matthew). The game has totally changed.
 

luckiestman

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Yeah, the era counts. It's a hell of a lot easier to put up big passing stats now (see Stafford, Matthew). The game has totally changed.
Ben 53 more wins Bradshaw 0.003 higher win percentage

Edit: Ben has all the counting stats to go along with wins and a high win percentage. I’m starting to wonder what the convincing case against Ben is.
 

ManicCompression

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Yeah, the era counts. It's a hell of a lot easier to put up big passing stats now (see Stafford, Matthew). The game has totally changed.
Yeah, I get that part, but a guy like Fran Tarkenton threw many more touchdowns (342) to interceptions (266) and with 57% completion. That's appreciably better than Bradshaw's numbers in terms of raw totals and rates. Even Bob Griese had a higher completion percentage (56%) and better TD/INT (192/172). Pre-injury Joe Theismann posted better stats. So did Len Dawson, Sonny Jurgenson. You can say "era" but if he's an all-time great, why wouldn't his numbers look more in line with other all-time greats from that era?
 

Kliq

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Saying Ben is Top Ten (SB Era only) is not really that much of a hot take, he has a pretty strong resume. If you extend it to all time and include guys like Graham, Baugh, Starr, etc. his position is weaker.
 

Mystic Merlin

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Basically they dumped pre-1980 aside from the guy they just couldn’t ignore and still preserve credibility (Unitas), which is not particularly shocking given recency bias/Bill and Sal being 50 and 52, respectively.

Anyways, we should just be happy Bill didn’t try to advocate for Eli as a fringe top 10 guy.