PC Hoops 2012-2013

Deathofthebambino

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Couldn't stop the Doug McDermott bum rush yesterday.  He scored 45 and PC lost by 15. If we beat St. John's this week, we'll be 21-11.  Do folks think there's no chance?  I admittedly don't follow college hoops much at all, but I always thought 20 wins was a pretty good barometer for where you need to be to reach the dance.  A couple wins in the BET, and then, can they get in?  I just don't see why the pessimism some folks seem to have here.  Those three OT losses to UMASS, Seton Hall and Nova really hurt though.
 

PC Drunken Friar

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Deathofthebambino said:
Couldn't stop the Doug McDermott bum rush yesterday.  He scored 45 and PC lost by 15. If we beat St. John's this week, we'll be 21-11.  Do folks think there's no chance?  I admittedly don't follow college hoops much at all, but I always thought 20 wins was a pretty good barometer for where you need to be to reach the dance.  A couple wins in the BET, and then, can they get in?  I just don't see why the pessimism some folks seem to have here.  Those three OT losses to UMASS, Seton Hall and Nova really hurt though.
They'll get in with 2 wins over st John's and nova, but they probably will be underdogs to st. John's.
 

PC Drunken Friar

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Deathofthebambino said:
Couldn't stop the Doug McDermott bum rush yesterday.  He scored 45 and PC lost by 15. If we beat St. John's this week, we'll be 21-11.  Do folks think there's no chance?  I admittedly don't follow college hoops much at all, but I always thought 20 wins was a pretty good barometer for where you need to be to reach the dance.  A couple wins in the BET, and then, can they get in?  I just don't see why the pessimism some folks seem to have here.  Those three OT losses to UMASS, Seton Hall and Nova really hurt though.
They'll get in with 2 wins over st John's and nova, but they probably will be underdogs to st. John's.
 

WayBackVazquez

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Deathofthebambino said:
Couldn't stop the Doug McDermott bum rush yesterday.  He scored 45 and PC lost by 15. If we beat St. John's this week, we'll be 21-11.  Do folks think there's no chance?  I admittedly don't follow college hoops much at all, but I always thought 20 wins was a pretty good barometer for where you need to be to reach the dance.  A couple wins in the BET, and then, can they get in?  I just don't see why the pessimism some folks seem to have here.  Those three OT losses to UMASS, Seton Hall and Nova really hurt though.
20 wins doesn't mean mean much anymore, and hasn't for some time. There have been an average of about five teams every year from the major conferences that win 20 and don't get in. Arizona won 23 a couple of years ago and was left out.
 

mabrowndog

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Here's the tournament schedule, with PC's potential matchups highlighted.
 
Big East Conference
All games at Madison Square Garden, New York NY ... All times EDT ... All games air on FOX Sports 1
 
First Round - Weds, March 12
07:00 pm - Game 1 - #8 Seton Hall vs #9 Butler
09:30 pm - Game 2 - #7 Georgetown vs #10 DePaul
 
Quarterfinals - Thur, March 13
01:30 pm - Game 3 - #1 Villanova vs Game 1 winner
03:30 pm - Game 4 - #4 Providence vs #5 St. John's
07:00 pm - Game 5 - #2 Creighton vs Game 2 winner
09:30 pm - Game 6 - #3 Xavier vs #6 Marquette
 
Semifinals - Fri, March 14
07:00 pm - Game 7 - Game 3 winner vs Game 4 winner
09:30 pm - Game 8 - Game 5 winner vs Game 6 winner 
 
Championship - Sat, March 15
08:30 pm - Game 7 winner vs Game 8 winner
 

shawnrbu

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Lunardi has the Friars and Red Storm as the First Two Teams Out.  Somehow in the past 48 hours PC has moved a line ahead of St. John's with neither team playing, according to Lunardi.  Seems safe to say that the loser of Thursday's game is likely to be going to the NIT and the winner looks like something of a coin flip to make it to the 1st Round if there are no bid stealers the remainder of the week and another bubble team does not go on a strong run in their own tourney.
 

Mloaf71

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Vinho Tinto said:
Massive 79-74 win over the St John's. A match-up with Seton Hall in the semis. 
 
PC -2 today.  Who would have thought in December this group would be favorites to play in the BET Championship.
 
This season has been a lot of fun.  Josh Fortune was money yesterday.
 

RG33

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Infield Infidel said:
Was the last one back w/ Austin Croshere?
Michael Smith, Dickey Simpkins, and Eric Williiams were the leaders of that team. Austin was a Freshman as noted above.

Huge win. Gotta love Cooley. Loved the shoutout to Al Skinner afterwards.
 

Deathofthebambino

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I'm hoping for a 10 seed.  Isn't that the same seed we had for the Elite 8 run in '97?  I can't remember if we were the 10 or the 7. Went through Marquette, Duke (2 seed) and Tennessee Chattanooga before losing to Arizona in OT, and they went on to win it all.
 

shawnrbu

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Yes, PC was a 10 seed in 97.  They wore the road blacks for all their tourney games except the Sweet 16 matchup against Chattanooga. 
 
Lunardi has PC as a 12 seed (lower than all four at-large teams who have to play in the first round.  Is this just a logistical thing?) and Palm has PC as an 11 seed.  They both have UNC as the opponent. 
 

PC Drunken Friar

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That makes no sense. Before the semi finals, PC is a 12 seed. They then win 2 and the BE champ and remain 12? To take it further, when I started looking, Afrer the Villanova loss a few weeks ago, they were a 12, with the play in game probable. Since then, they have,I think, lost to Creighton only and won 6 of 7. How the hell do they not improve drastically?
 

HomeRunBaker

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What a great weekend and even with a loss to Creighton everything fell into place so that we were likely in anyway following the Seton Hall win.

* We beat St John's
* Nova loses to Seton Hall
* We beat Seton Hall
* 7 of the 8 teams I had fighting for final two spots lose on Friday prior to making their conf semis.
* Not one conference tournament Cinderella winner (aside from PC) to steal at-large bids.

All in all a great weekend. I expect an 11-seed.
 

WayBackVazquez

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PC Drunken Friar said:
That makes no sense. Before the semi finals, PC is a 12 seed. They then win 2 and the BE champ and remain 12? To take it further, when I started looking, Afrer the Villanova loss a few weeks ago, they were a 12, with the play in game probable. Since then, they have,I think, lost to Creighton only and won 6 of 7. How the hell do they not improve drastically?
 
They're a 10 or an 11. They have a 3-6 record against the top 50, and 8-11 against the top 100. what do you want them to get?
 

Mloaf71

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Give me a 10 or 11 seed in Raleigh vs UCONN. Nice 4 hour drive from NOVA/DC
 

shawnrbu

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Hoping the Friars don't draw a former Big East team like UConn or Cincy in their first game.  I'd much rather play a school we never play (Ohio State, Gonzaga, UNC to name a few).  I'll accept playing an old Big East foe if PC makes it to JerryWorld.
 

pdaj

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Gonzaga or Oregon would be interesting because of the transfers -- Coleman and Austin/Young. UMass, Baylor, UConn, and St. Louis may be possibilities, as well. I'd like to avoid UNC.
 

JShams

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North Carolina will give them a tough game for sure. Go Friars!
Carolina hasn't played well in the last three weeks. They got absolutely mauled by Pitt on Friday, that game was not as competitive as the score indicated. If Carolina plays with focus, it will be a good game, but if they play like they did in the first 33 minutes of the Pitt game I think PC pulls the upset, possibly easily.
 

Deathofthebambino

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Like I just said in the other thread, I'll be happy if the Friars just get by UNC.  They would then likely have to play Iowa State, and if they get by them, Nova, and then whoever comes out of the other side of the bracket, which looks like it very well could be Virginia.  Doesn't get much tougher than that seed.
 

Greg29fan

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good luck guys, looks like you got on a hell of a run to win the BET, and like JShams said, we haven't played a solid game since Wake Forest 3 weeks ago.
 

redsahx

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Interesting note from an Andy Katz interview with the Selection Committee chairman. Apparently the Friars would not have made the tournament as an at-large bid had they lost to Creighton.
 

If there was one bubble team that definitely played its way into the field over the weekend with a win, it was Providence. The Friars beat Creighton for the Big East tournament title Saturday at Madison Square Garden. Wellman said the Friars weren't in the field Saturday afternoon before tipoff, meaning Providence had to win to get in.
 
 
On the one hand, when you look at a team like SMU missing out, and Tennessee and Xavier in the play-in games, you can certainly say that the Friars resume' isn't that much more impressive than any of those teams. They probably did need one more marquee win. On the other hand, if this is how the committee felt about Providence, the NC State and Iowa selections bug me even more.
 
NC State simply feasted on the bottom half of the ACC, had exactly one quality non-conference win (Tennessee) while losing to CIncinatti, Missouri and North Carolina Central, and their only strong ACC wins came against Pitt and Syracuse at the end of the year when both of those teams were in a bit of a tailspin. Beating up on BC, Virginia Tech, Clemson, Notre Dame, Georgia Tech, Miami  and Maryland isn't any more impressive in my book then going through Butler, Seton Hall, Georgetown, Marquette and St. Johns. Then you throw in Iowa who lost 6 of their last 8 games with the only two wins over that stretch coming against Penn State and Purdue, the two worst teams in the conference. Over that same stretch they lost to Indiana, Minnesota and Illinios, the three teams chasing them for bubble positioning in the Big 10, and then lose in the first round of the conference tournament to Northwestern. That is the resume of a team begging to be left out, contrasted with a Providence team that played strong in the clutch down the stretch with their season on the line multiple times.
 
I any case I think #11 is a good spot for them. A 7-10 seed might mean a slightly better first round matchup, but then you get a #1 or 2 seed in the second round. UNC is beatable, and struggling a bit. This should be a close game. If the Friars advance I'm not too high on their chances against Iowa State though. In any case though it is great to see Providence back in the dance, and worst case scenario we'll always remember this team for the Big East championship.
 

pdaj

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redsahx said:
I any case I think #11 is a good spot for them. A 7-10 seed might mean a slightly better first round matchup, but then you get a #1 or 2 seed in the second round. UNC is beatable, and struggling a bit. This should be a close game. If the Friars advance I'm not too high on their chances against Iowa State though. In any case though it is great to see Providence back in the dance, and worst case scenario we'll always remember this team for the Big East championship.
 
The selection committee loves keeping things confusing -- constant contradictions. That said, I agree with the quoted portion of your post. It's been a great season -- and it's all gravy from here.
 

Mloaf71

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We probably don't want to go into here but what's going on with the Wall Street Journal?
 
Two days, two articles?
 

Rovin Romine

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And here's the sexual assault investigation: http://www.wcvb.com/news/providence-college-basketball-players-investigated-for-assault/25048174#!AItwJ
 
http://www.providencejournal.com/breaking-news/content/20140319-providence-college-official-says-teams-focus-is-on-ncaa-tournament-not-sexual-assault-inquiry.ece
 
 
In December, Providence College suspended Bullock and Austin for the season, citing an unspecified violation of the college’s Code of Conduct. Bullock remains on the team and practices with the Friars, but Austin transferred to the University of Oregon in January.
 
Recently, the young woman decided to make a complaint to Providence police, Maurano said. “When she let us know she wanted to go to law enforcement, we helped her contact police and drove her to and from the station,” he said.
Lapatin said that the college has cooperated with the investigation. The attorney general’s office is also involved.
The police have not contacted Bullock, who accompanied the team to San Antonio. When asked if there was any thought about leaving Bullock back in Providence, Driscoll said no.
“Nothing had changed,” Driscoll said. “Rodney went through the proper [disciplinary] process on campus. We suspended him as soon there was an allegation and he went through the hearing process. The school came to a decision and now he hasn’t been charged with anything. Nothing is any different than what it was back in November.”
Driscoll added that Bullock “hasn’t talked to [the police] and I don’t even know if they’ll ask him to.”
 
As an alumnus, I'm both unsurprised and irritated. 
 

Deathofthebambino

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Not sure I follow?  From the bolded quote, it seems like the school is helping her go to law enforcement.  What's the irritating part?
 

Rovin Romine

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Deathofthebambino said:
Not sure I follow?  From the bolded quote, it seems like the school is helping her go to law enforcement.  What's the irritating part?
 
Perhaps I'm reading too much into this, but I knew women who were raped on campus in the early 90s.  From what I was told, they were given the distinct impression that the school would 'handle everything' and that any involvement of the police would be 'messy.'  Of course, it often wasn't handled at all, or in a way that was remotely appropriate.  That was especially frustrating given that PC was (is?) big on the whole in loco parentis idea, in keeping with the concept that the college is a Catholic university that ministers to its students from a Catholic perspective.  (Of course, this was just before the sexual abuse scandals in the church were getting publicity.) 
 
Anyway, I wonder if PC has matured with the times.   The timing puts my antennae up. 
 
In this case the assault apparently occurred on Nov 2, 2013.  It came to the attention of the school authorities, because there was an investigation and a suspension of the players in Dec. 2013, although they were still allowed to attend the school.  The victim contacted the Providence Police in March 2014.  
 
Despite one statement of the school that they "encourage students to go to law enforcement," I think it's somewhat telling that PC made another statement saying, "“When she let us know she wanted to go to law enforcement, we helped her contact police and drove her to and from the station.".
 
I think there's a bit of dissonance there.  If PC is serious about its duty to its students, did it actively encourage the woman to get a "rape kit" which might allow her to later prosecute?  Did they provide her with counselors who usually urge documentation and reporting?  Did they even give her a contact number for the Providence Police? The issue isn't so much a statute of limitations, as it is that evidence can be destroyed and/or stories agreed upon if there's a 4 month gap between the assault and the beginning of the investigation.  
 
Then there's the issue of how the school handled this disciplinary proceeding vis a vis the victim.  Did the school give her legal advice in some way?  What was she told?  Was she encouraged to do anything?  Why go for a disciplinary hearing (which presumably required the victim to accuse someone) but not contact the police?  When she did go to the police, why was it done "through" the school - did she feel she had to tell the school first?
 
Lastly there's the disciplinary hearing itself.  If the school suspended two students for consensual sexual activity then that's just fucked up.  If the school suspended two students for non-consentual sexual activity - i.e., rape or sexual assault, that's equally fucked up.  
 
***
Who knows though?  Facts are thin on the ground, and I am admittedly pre-judging what may have happened given my own experiences there.  
 
It's possible the school acted completely above board and the victim later changed her mind about speaking to the police.  
 

Deathofthebambino

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Now, I understand what you're saying RR.  I'm of the mind to let more information play out before making any judgment.  I was there from 94-98, and I knew a few women that suffered sexual assault situations and I have to say my experience was pretty different.  The punishment was severe, swift and if anything, I'd worry that the rights of the accused may have been affected worse than the other way around. 
 
It wouldn't surprise me at all if they suspended them for consensual sexual activity.   When I was there, they were suspending kids for just going into a girls dorm after night fall (parietals, sp?), never mind having sex with them.  Based on my experience there, I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if the school suspended the guys for being involved in a threesome if that's what happened.
 
That said, I will say that the basketball team received far different treatment than other students, and that's what would concern me the most.  If the school did do the wrong thing in this instance, and didn't help this girl like they should have, I would have no problem believing that they did so because the perps were basketball players, instead of it being a sign of something larger with respect to sexual assault in general.  That's the part of the story that worries me the most and would give me pause to think that this wasn't handled correctly.  The stuff that took place with the basketball team when I was there (I was there for that Elite 8 run in 1997) are the stuff of legend, and are, unfortunately, very true. 
 

PC Drunken Friar

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Deathofthebambino said:
Now, I understand what you're saying RR.  I'm of the mind to let more information play out before making any judgment.  I was there from 94-98, and I knew a few women that suffered sexual assault situations and I have to say my experience was pretty different.  The punishment was severe, swift and if anything, I'd worry that the rights of the accused may have been affected worse than the other way around. 
 
It wouldn't surprise me at all if they suspended them for consensual sexual activity.   When I was there, they were suspending kids for just going into a girls dorm after night fall (parietals, sp?), never mind having sex with them.  Based on my experience there, I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if the school suspended the guys for being involved in a threesome if that's what happened.
 
That said, I will say that the basketball team received far different treatment than other students, and that's what would concern me the most.  If the school did do the wrong thing in this instance, and didn't help this girl like they should have, I would have no problem believing that they did so because the perps were basketball players, instead of it being a sign of something larger with respect to sexual assault in general.  That's the part of the story that worries me the most and would give me pause to think that this wasn't handled correctly.  The stuff that took place with the basketball team when I was there (I was there for that Elite 8 run in 1997) are the stuff of legend, and are, unfortunately, very true. 
It was the opposite when I was there, DoTB...after Donta Wade punched out some kid (and Marcus Jefferson was there) the ball team got a notice that the rest of campus was afraid of them and no more than 3 ball players can be walking together at the same time. After the past couple incidents, it looks like they have found a happy medium. From what HRB said earlier in this thread, I just hope the school did the right thing. Sexual assaults are all too commonly unreported and I am disgusted reading comments and other boards that say this is nothing but a money grab. If bullock was involved in a sexual assault, I don't ever want to see him take the court.
 
Dec 10, 2012
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Hats off to Bryce Cotton. Almost won it himself with that 36 point on 23 shot performance, with 8 assists. By far the best player on the court, one man show, he deserved to win this one.
 
Responsible for 75% of PC baskets.
 
Arguably the best player-performance I have seen all year.
 

PC Drunken Friar

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Dan to Theo to Ben said:
Hats off to Bryce Cotton. Almost won it himself with that 36 point on 23 shot performance, with 8 assists. By far the best player on the court, one man show, he deserved to win this one.
 
Responsible for 75% of PC baskets.
 
Arguably the best player-performance I have seen all year.
Hope he just played himself into a NBA contract next year. It's amazing to see how far Cotton has come. He was petulant early on in his career and fans wanted him to never see the court. He nearly transferred at least once, maybe twice. PC was always looking for a new PG and only reluctantly gave him the job after Kris Dunn was injured last year (fuck...what could have been with cotton, Dunn and ledo). And in the last two years he became a Friar Legend. My second favorite (john lineman will always be #1 in my book).

They should have won this game. They are a better team. And it stings, I really think they could have beaten Iowa State. And now With Niang out, I am sure they would have. Cotton deserved better.
 

Drocca

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Cotton played wonderful, but surprised to see them referred to as the better team. Cotton was respinsible for 75% of their offense and they only go to six deep. Does PC have wins comparable to @michigan state. , Louisville on neutral court, Kentucky, Duke?
 

PC Drunken Friar

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Drocca said:
Cotton played wonderful, but surprised to see them referred to as the better team. Cotton was respinsible for 75% of their offense and they only go to six deep. Does PC have wins comparable to @michigan state. , Louisville on neutral court, Kentucky, Duke?
The way they were playing down the stretch, yes, I think they were better. If they get a normal game from Batts (1 rebound?!?!!) or Fortune, they win going away.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Josh Fortune announces he's transferring. Was it his choice? Was he forced out? Did Cooley not feel he was a tough enough cookie? I'll see what I can do to get the real scoop on this.
 

NickEsasky

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Is he really that big of a loss? There is something to be said for having a guy back who's played big minutes and knows the system but he shot 41% from the floor as a shooting guard. He also made the most boneheaded passes of anyone I can remember watching. 
 

HomeRunBaker

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NickEsasky said:
Is he really that big of a loss? There is something to be said for having a guy back who's played big minutes and knows the system but he shot 41% from the floor as a shooting guard. He also made the most boneheaded passes of anyone I can remember watching. 
It's a huge loss when coupled with losing Cotton and not having another 2-guard on the team as a spot-up shooting outlet to Dunn's penetration. That 41% really isn't a true reflection of his shooting as his TS% was 55% last year since nearly 70% of his attempts were 3-pointers.

Fortune's passes frustrated me too but he was a real stabilizing force on the team who stretched the floor and played solid defense.

Spoke to Dunn's dad yesterday morning he said that he left because of Cooley being in his ear too much and that Josh isn't that type of kid you handle like that. He has really soured on Cooley since the practice when Kris reinjured his shoulder and said very confidently that he's pulling Kris out of their immediately if he tries moving him to the 2.