Payton Pritchard drafted #26 overall
- Thread starter RedOctober3829
- Start date
The only thing I worry about is if the quality of play is worse this preseason than most due to no summer league and fewer games. And even if the play is up to par, it's still preseason. I feel more confident about him than I did a week ago but I'd still like to see him do in the regular season.
As far as the article about overreacting to Pritchard, my take after 1 preseason game is he's better than Waters and Edwards, not as good as Teague. He'll be the 3rd or 4th PG depending on how you label Smart.
Carsen Edwards one-trick was 3-point shooting, and then he went and shot 28% in the G League last year. Waters is a crafty guard who's main skills are his passing and his quick hands on defense, the advantages of which are pretty much negated by the fact that most people will be able to just shoot right over him.
Pritchard appeared to play much better than either of them the other night, but I wouldn't be surprised if any or none of them went on to have NBA careers. They're all very young. I think each of them still has a shot -- Pritchard as a reliable back-up guard, Carsen if he can recover his shooting stroke, and Waters as a pesky back-up guard.
As is typical with Brad, I think we'll see a time-share unless one of them really separates himself from the pack or if one of them gives up, a la James Young.
Pritchard appeared to play much better than either of them the other night, but I wouldn't be surprised if any or none of them went on to have NBA careers. They're all very young. I think each of them still has a shot -- Pritchard as a reliable back-up guard, Carsen if he can recover his shooting stroke, and Waters as a pesky back-up guard.
As is typical with Brad, I think we'll see a time-share unless one of them really separates himself from the pack or if one of them gives up, a la James Young.
Yeah... 3.6 turnovers a game in the G-League, no matter how much he had the ball in his hands, is too much.
Incredibly small sample size, but in Waters' 119 minutes in the NBA: 18.3% assist rate, 22.2% TO rate, 24.2% usage. That's awful for a PG. I don't know his rates in college but he turned the ball over a ton there too. 390 assists to 210 TO in 66 games. That is bad.
Edwards has a 9.9% TO rate on a 18.4% usage rate in 351 minutes. His problem is the 9.3% assist rate. He's not really much of a playmaker and if you are 5'11, you need that skill. In college, he had 270 assists and 241 TO in 108 games.
Pritchard had 659 assists, 292 TO in 144 games. Much better passer than Edwards, more in control than Waters.
He looked pretty decent. On the other hand it's preseaon, and Carsen looked excellent in preseason last year.
Pritchard's pallor now has its own thread:
https://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?threads/gritty-little-white-guys-998.32234/#post-4203972
https://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?threads/gritty-little-white-guys-998.32234/#post-4203972
Marcus Smart really seems to like Pritchard:
View: https://twitter.com/chrisgrenham/status/1339985495196110851?s=19
View: https://twitter.com/chrisgrenham/status/1339985780610109444?s=19
View: https://twitter.com/chrisgrenham/status/1339985495196110851?s=19
View: https://twitter.com/chrisgrenham/status/1339985780610109444?s=19
Film breakdown on Pritchard (and Nesmith) here: https://www.boston.com/sports/boston-celtics/2020/12/20/film-study-payton-pritchard-aaron-nesmith-celtics-preseason
Conclusion: he's got a lot of learning to do but shows some, err, grit - I mean promise and should start the season at the 3rd PG.
Conclusion: he's got a lot of learning to do but shows some, err, grit - I mean promise and should start the season at the 3rd PG.
How was he in the first half last night? I only saw the second half putting kids to bed and what I saw was only meh at best:
— got caught in the lane and had to force an off balance turnaround fadeaway brick;
— tried to pick Giannis’ pocket on a double team but probably made it too easy for Giannis to escape the double team.
— got caught in the lane and had to force an off balance turnaround fadeaway brick;
— tried to pick Giannis’ pocket on a double team but probably made it too easy for Giannis to escape the double team.
He hit a deep three off the catch with confidence. Then he also isod around aimlessly and ended up putting up an off balance top of the key 2 that was ugly. Otherwise he didn't do much. Rookie stuff.
Yeah seemed pretty typical for a rookie in his first game. I think today’s wide open NBA game plays well to his shooting and range. Plus he works hard on the floor with that “second unit scrapper” mentality. Let’s keep in mind that this came against the Bucks and not a .500 or below team too. Overall I liked what I saw last night.
He had an open look early on that iso play, didn't take it, ended up forcing a contested look. Seemed like he was mad he didn't take the initial shot and tried to make up for it. He'll take the shot next time.
Yeah I only saw this part too and was unimpressed...but seems he was better early. He's a rookie. I bet there will be a bunch of good and meh moments till he learns
Few days later and much more impressed tonight. He looks like one of the bright spots so far tonight
Van Vleet didn’t play real minutes his rookie year until two months in, a one off, and only played real minutes four games his entire rookie year
Prichard obviously is an NBA player. Besides stepping out of bounds a bunch of times, he hasn’t looked like a rookie too often. PP has a lot of composure. He’s a great shooter with a lot of handle, and a scrappy defender, although undersized.
To my eye he has the potential to be a better defender than similarly sized Kemba or Teague. Lots to learn obviously but he's pretty physical and looks to have strong hands.
He's definitely an NBA player. I'm still a little concerned that he lacks the burst to get around almost anyone. But he's shifty and can shoot, and his handle is solid. He'll have his share of rookie mistakes if he keeps getting rotation minutes, but he doesn't seem lost out there.
Teague has looked pretty good too, so I feel a million times better about weathering a slow ramp-up for Kemba.
Teague has looked pretty good too, so I feel a million times better about weathering a slow ramp-up for Kemba.
It's still early but it would be amusing if Pritchard was the rookie to average 8 points a game.
Teague 0-11 his last two games, although he did make 9 FTs in Indy. His floater is a disaster and he misses a lot of chippies.
Yeah I don't quite know what to make of him yet for sure, but the whole team is a bit off. More steals than TOs, seems solid enough. Not a hell of a lot of numbers yet to tell a story but the eyeball test tells me that he's a cromulent backup.
Is there a decent floater? Honestly, it's a shot that feels like a cop out, and has the appropriately low success percentage. I could be entirely off, but is it a decent shot, league wide?
I have never seen any stats in regards to floaters BUT I don't believe it is a high % shot.
Boeheim will immediately yank a guard if he shoots a floater in the lane. Jimmy has always claimed that the floater is a terrible shot
A floater is usually plan B. It's a failure to correctly predict whether you can get to the rim and arguably a failure to correctly kick it out to another player to drive it again or shoot the open 3.
I think part of why floaters are generally a low percentage shot (it depends on the guy) is that most of these players have spent a lifetime being able to get to the rim and not having to resort to plan B too often. A floater is a useful shot and should be practiced by players with more marginal athletic ability (whether that be speed, strength, or height) who can't reliably get to the rim. Of course, the pull up jumper from 10 feet is also an option, and better still if the player learns to use the backboard when the physics (distance and angle)/shot blocking threats dictate.
But you still have to be able to make the shot at a pretty high percentage. Driving and getting fouled is great, layups are great, and in the absence of that you need a pretty good floater/jumper for that to be a better option than kicking out (time on the shot clock excepting, of course).
You can't check league wide stats on it, but NBA.com tracks shot types that you can check on individual player pages. I'm not sure what consistently distinguishes a driving floating jump shot from a floating jump shot (looking at the video of each attempt type proves to be of little assistance), but they track those. You'd have to go through the league by hand (or have a web crawling script compile the data) to get league wide stats.
Trae Young has a decent floater, for example. It's not a bad shot for him to take, especially relative to kicking it out to one of his teammates from last year.
I think part of why floaters are generally a low percentage shot (it depends on the guy) is that most of these players have spent a lifetime being able to get to the rim and not having to resort to plan B too often. A floater is a useful shot and should be practiced by players with more marginal athletic ability (whether that be speed, strength, or height) who can't reliably get to the rim. Of course, the pull up jumper from 10 feet is also an option, and better still if the player learns to use the backboard when the physics (distance and angle)/shot blocking threats dictate.
But you still have to be able to make the shot at a pretty high percentage. Driving and getting fouled is great, layups are great, and in the absence of that you need a pretty good floater/jumper for that to be a better option than kicking out (time on the shot clock excepting, of course).
You can't check league wide stats on it, but NBA.com tracks shot types that you can check on individual player pages. I'm not sure what consistently distinguishes a driving floating jump shot from a floating jump shot (looking at the video of each attempt type proves to be of little assistance), but they track those. You'd have to go through the league by hand (or have a web crawling script compile the data) to get league wide stats.
Trae Young has a decent floater, for example. It's not a bad shot for him to take, especially relative to kicking it out to one of his teammates from last year.
Apparently Synergy tracks them Found this article that discusses the rise of the floater: https://www.thescore.com/nba/news/1946131
Typically, people don't make them at a high clip (0.86 ppp, with the league's median half-court ORtg being 96.4) but someone like Harden does - at the time of the article, he was scoring 1.064 points per floater, which was sixth in the league.
Trae Young, not surprisingly, was #1 but the article didn't give his numbers.
It's early, but Teague is 3-21 inside the arc, including 1-3 at the rim, He had a few efficient mid range seasons when in his mid-20s, but lately, he hasn't been good there and has been under 60 percent from the rim. I don't think he's going to be able to generate offense inside the arc very efficiently this season.
That’s a really great article. I love reading players’ and coaches’ thoughts on the wonkier aspects of the game.
When I was reading this, the first name that popped in my head was Sherman Douglas. I have memories of his floater being a go-to shot. I would think-- following on what you wrote.... that guys who can get to the paint easy, but not to the rim would have the best floaters... e.g. undersized PGs. As that is the part of a game they have had to work at an develop.
Tony Parker had a great floater in the paint. It was definitely a Plan A, not Plan B, type play for him.
I thought of that. And also then remembered that the "Little General" went to 'Cuse. And Boeheim started coaching there like...2 years after Naismith hung up peach baskets at the YMCA-- so it is possible that I was... oh, what's the word when you aren't correct? That.
Ha, I thought of Sherm as well. Didn’t Kenny Anderson also have a decent floater game?
World B Flat has a great floater and if you watch his warm-up videos, you can see how much he works at it.
Thanks, I just stumbled upon it by luck. Synergy must have some really great information though I'm sure it's not cheap.
Sherm douglas? Wasn't that his only shot? Nm - reading others now... Cooky internet on my phone...
I'd like to see him initiate the offense more but he seems to play a lot of his minutes along side Teague or Smart.
Small sample size, but Pritchard has shown a good floater a couple times. A good tool for guys who might struggle to finish at the rim.
He’s a baller. Brings composed energy, which is tough for a lot of guards making the leap to the NBA to do. I’m loving how he fits into this team’s mentality. Fun kid to root for.
What's great about PP is he'll be around for awhile too. Most of the time the later 1st round/2nd picks don't offer much value to the teams that pick them even if they do go on to be productive. I'm not sure he'll ever be a starter and I'm not sure he'll be worth his 2nd NBA contract (someone always overpays) but he will be nice to have around for at least 4 more seasons. Barring a trade anyway.
Loved this play after a made basket to race down and score when the Pacers were just jogging back up, just caught them napping.
View: https://twitter.com/celtics/status/1344085401481277441
View: https://twitter.com/celtics/status/1344085401481277441
Brad putting a lot of trust in him already. 27 mins today to Teague’s 19. Played deep into this game.
He did flub late but playing with a lot of intensity and confidence.
Had a beautiful recovery and steal today.
Hopefully we see Nesmith eventually but this kid is absolutely a hit. Rest up Kemba - would love to see Pritchard get a solid 25 mins/gm and see how he develops.
He did flub late but playing with a lot of intensity and confidence.
Had a beautiful recovery and steal today.
Hopefully we see Nesmith eventually but this kid is absolutely a hit. Rest up Kemba - would love to see Pritchard get a solid 25 mins/gm and see how he develops.
He has a decent number of bad plays but they are always the kind that you know will go away with experience. Stepping out of bounds, the double clutch on the three, weird moments where he dribbles himself into a corner. But the good plays are so encouraging and he plays with a lot of confidence. Tonight was very exciting.
Also, it rattled out, but just the fact that he pulled up off the screen for what would’ve been the dagger with about a minute left is great. A rookie in his fourth game taking that shot has some stones. You love to see it.
Jaylen is a fan:
View: https://twitter.com/Tom_NBA/status/1344115340633059331?s=20
Jaylen Brown: "Payton is the GOAT, man."
View: https://twitter.com/Tom_NBA/status/1344115340633059331?s=20
Jaylen Brown: "Payton is the GOAT, man."
I just hope that he spends every flight, every practice, every moment on the bench, sitting next to Marcus absorbing nuggets of wisdom about how to leverage his heart and brains on defense. Like apprentice to master.