Payton Pritchard drafted #26 overall

lovegtm

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Not going to crown his ass after one game, but Pritchard looks like he might be the kind of competent, step-in-fast-high-floor-low-ceiling guy that the Celtics haven't been able to draft in awhile. That would be pretty useful for 4 years of a rookie deal, when your star PG is going to be in shrinkwrap for 3 more years.
 

BigSoxFan

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Not going to crown his ass after one game, but Pritchard looks like he might be the kind of competent, step-in-fast-high-floor-low-ceiling guy that the Celtics haven't been able to draft in awhile. That would be pretty useful for 4 years of a rookie deal, when your star PG is going to be in shrinkwrap for 3 more years.
Yup. I was one of those surprised faces come draft night but first impression was good. He wasn’t shy like some rookies and demonstrated real skills. He’ll always have his size/athleticism constraints but he looked like an NBA player. Looking forward to seeing how he progresses.
 

TripleOT

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Prichard showed a lot of poise in his first NBA game. 4-4 from inside the arc, including two mid-range shots and two strong takes to the hoop in traffic. Two catch and shoot threes were also a good sign but he missed all his threes off the bounce.

He showed strong instincts in flagging down defensive rebounds, and made a couple of nice plays for others running the break.

The best part of his performance is that he looked like he belonged.
 

lovegtm

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Prichard showed a lot of poise in his first NBA game. 4-4 from inside the arc, including two mid-range shots and two strong takes to the hoop in traffic. Two catch and shoot threes were also a good sign but he missed all his threes off the bounce.

He showed strong instincts in flagging down defensive rebounds, and made a couple of nice plays for others running the break.

The best part of his performance is that he looked like he belonged.
The “belonged” part is key. His skills and shooting are good enough that if he doesn’t get physically dominated, he has a future.

It helps that he’s not a complete midget and is pretty strong.
 

TripleOT

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The “belonged” part is key. His skills and shooting are good enough that if he doesn’t get physically dominated, he has a future.

It helps that he’s not a complete midget and is pretty strong.
When I watched a video of Prichard playing with and against a bunch of good NBA players in pickup, taking and making shots for game point over and over again, I had a feeling he was going to present well. In a gym packed with 15 NBA players, no one wants to sit on the sidelines because your team just lost.

He’s got enough handle to not get dominated by a defender. Bigger guards are going to try going at him, but he’s good at digging at the ball if they expose it. Prichard could go out there next game and look lost, but that would surprise me. He seems to be an unflappable type of player
 

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EL Jeffe

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He looked an awful lot like the guy you saw at Oregon last year, which is encouraging. He can obviously shoot and he's confident in his shot. The biggest reason for optimism was that off the bounce, he could still generally get to the spots where he wanted to go. He's crafty, strong, and has a low center of gravity. He was able to finish in traffic, but did get caught in the lane a few times with no plan and ended up turning it over. I'd expect that will improve with time as he figures out what he can and can't do against NBA defenses. He was able to get around Thybulle a couple of times though, and we know what kind of defender he is. It wasn't all against scrubs, even if it's not the same as it will look when the games count, there's game-planning, and there are five NBA-level defenders out on the court.

The first step is always if the guy looks like he belongs on an NBA court. So far, so good. (We've seen a decent chunk of rookies look impressive in the early going, despite the truncated offseason. It's been cool to see.)
 

RedOctober3829

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I’ll wait to judge him until around 6 weeks from now in real games, but it was an encouraging first game for him. He looks good offensively and big/strong enough not to be a complete liability on pick and rolls defensively.
 

CreightonGubanich

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With all the appropriate caveats about it being one game, he made several plays last night that I don't think Brad Wanamaker could make -- the baseline jumper, the tough fall away banking 10 footer, and a couple really tough finishes around the rim. The defense is a big question mark, but if he can be adequate on that end, he's got a chance to step into rotation minutes right away. He's already got the Chris Paul/Andre Miller hip shield of the defender down, and his handle was better than I expected.
 

BaseballJones

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He has what I like to call "guile". Crafty is another word. Getting defenders on his hip, shielding the ball from them, then creating just enough space to get his shot off...that's impressive stuff, and that kind of things lasts a LONG time in the NBA, because it's not about athleticism, it's about knowing just how to position your body and move.
 

128

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He has what I like to call "guile". Crafty is another word. Getting defenders on his hip, shielding the ball from them, then creating just enough space to get his shot off...that's impressive stuff, and that kind of things lasts a LONG time in the NBA, because it's not about athleticism, it's about knowing just how to position your body and move.
Also: He may not be 6-5, but he's solidly put together and isn't likely to get pushed around out there. Waters, by comparison, is a gnat.
 

lovegtm

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Also: He may not be 6-5, but he's solidly put together and isn't likely to get pushed around out there. Waters, by comparison, is a gnat.
Yeah, watching Pritchard and Nesmith last night was like "ohhhhhh, so that's what promising rookies who aren't complete physical mismatches look like" experience, after seeing Waters and Carsen get tossed around last year.
 

HowBoutDemSox

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Yeah, watching Pritchard and Nesmith last night was like "ohhhhhh, so that's what promising rookies who aren't complete physical mismatches look like" experience, after seeing Waters and Carsen get tossed around last year.
To be fair, we also had Grant as a rookie last year, and no one is tossing Grant around.
 

DJnVa

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As John Karalis said on his Celtics podcast, the biggest thing with rookies is not necessarily seeing them hitting shots or even missing shots. It's just that they don't look lost out there. And neither of these kids do.
 

shoelace

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With all the appropriate caveats about it being one game, he made several plays last night that I don't think Brad Wanamaker could make -- the baseline jumper, the tough fall away banking 10 footer, and a couple really tough finishes around the rim. The defense is a big question mark, but if he can be adequate on that end, he's got a chance to step into rotation minutes right away. He's already got the Chris Paul/Andre Miller hip shield of the defender down, and his handle was better than I expected.
Agree with all of this. He may never be able to defend like ultra quick point guard types, but he looked fairly strong out there, which gives me hopes for his ability to defend bigger players. I mean, the Celtics used Kemba on Jae Crowder, and I could see Pritchard being used in a similar way. If the small dude is quick enough to stay in front of a wing type who lacks elite quickness, and is strong enough to making posting up a bad option, they usually can defend bigger dudes unless the bigger dude can just shoot over them consistently. I think that's his pathway to being a useful defender early in his career. It's also why Pritchard and Nesmith both felt like fit picks, because you have Jaylen, Smart and Tatum to pick up a ton of defensive slack.

If this kid is decent, I suppose that's a silver lining of being cautious with Kemba because it gives him a chance to get some regular minutes. Obviously we still need to see more and see if this all holds up with regular season intensity, but it was a good showing.
 

bakahump

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I thought he did well switching. Seemed to sense the guy who was going to be unguarded and picked him up. The rotation looked hap hazard but it happened. That gives me hope. I am not gonna sink the kid after what ....a week or two of practice?

Nesmith has me a bit more worried on D. He seem to be wearing concrete shoes (which I think was his ding during the Draft). He looks like he might be a 3 and Eek guy. But that one shot looked sweet.
 

Freddy Linn

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I have a huge rooting interest in the kid. My son is really good friends with his HS coach's son. The video in this thread of him in the street is from a half mile away.

I'm not sure anyone has worked harder to get to where he is than Payton. He's different.
 

Saints Rest

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First and foremost - fantastic content on this board right now! Good game by Prit. I loved this post-game quote the most:

Pritchard said Smart is “a perfect leader” and “a dog” after he watched Smart go flying after a loose ball in a preseason game. “It’s an example of how we can play and how to win games.”

https://www.boston.com/sports/boston-celtics/2020/12/16/celtics-rookies-payton-pritchard-aaron-nesmith
I had been thinking, while reading the comments today about him learning to use his size and strength on defense, that he could have no better teacher than Marcus. It sounds like Marcus has taken a liking to him and the quote above makes it sound like PP knows who to respect.
 

Jimbodandy

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I had been thinking, while reading the comments today about him learning to use his size and strength on defense, that he could have no better teacher than Marcus. It sounds like Marcus has taken a liking to him and the quote above makes it sound like PP knows who to respect.
I think that PP just found a soulmate here. Some guys just like to get in the mud, and PP and Marcus seem to have that in common. That's not to say that other guys don't take charges or dive for loose balls, but some guys are mudders at heart.
 

128

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I think that PP just found a soulmate here. Some guys just like to get in the mud, and PP and Marcus seem to have that in common. That's not to say that other guys don't take charges or dive for loose balls, but some guys are mudders at heart.
Agreed, and it makes you wonder what Smart really thinks of Kyrie.
 

benhogan

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I had been thinking, while reading the comments today about him learning to use his size and strength on defense, that he could have no better teacher than Marcus. It sounds like Marcus has taken a liking to him and the quote above makes it sound like PP knows who to respect.
Danny/Wyc/Brad just put that C on Smarts' chest

Tristan comes in here and says he wants to be the BIG version of Marcus Smart.

The Jays are the stars but Smart is the heart of this team.

I want a formal presser where Smart has no idea, but everyone else is in on it. And Danny just holds up a #36 jersey with a C on it and his teammates mob him.
 

DGreenwood

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I think the hype over last nights game is not as much about the numbers in the box score, but about how incredibly comfortable and under control he seemed. It's really rare to see those traits in a rookie. You always hear coaches say something like "When he gets some experience, the game will start to slow down for him a little bit", it doesn't look like Payton needs the game to slow down for him. It didn't look like his first NBA game.

Even the plays where he got into traffic in the lane and turned it over by forcing a pass were not as bad as they looked. His major mistake on those plays was trusting Tacko's hands, because he actually made some nice dishes on those plays.
 
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tbrown_01923

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That drive to the left of the paint (0:40) and stop-and-pop off the glass got me very, very excited.
i liked that example too. He originally tried to put his defender in jail, but failed to get that sealed and the defender slipped in front of him. His adjustment to fade left and take the jump shot was the right play (other than resetting, which may also have been possible - but his fade away wasn't defended). It was a good shot - but also a good adjustment.
 

Tony C

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Just as an analogy from out here in L.A. Lakerland, Alex Caruso deserves all the plaudits he gets as he was unheralded and is carving out a nice little career for himself. But the hype for him has been out of proportion -- "the white Mamba" etc -- and that likely had something to do with his whiteness and fans yearning for what used to be openly called "the great white hope."

Now this year the Lakers' Talen Horton T (black dude, for those who may not be aware of him) is getting a ton of hype for some good pre-season performances, too. So definitely not as simple as only white guys get overhyped. Dreaming on young prospects who flash during pre-season/spring training is one of the most fun parts of being a fan, and Pritchard is definitely worthy of attn just as Caruso was, and definitely true that other Celtics who aren't white (Time Lord, maybe) get more attn than their performance merits. At the same time, agree that worth paying attn to the potential of an extra bit of identification by an overwhelming white NBA fan base with the trope of overachieving when it comes to unheralded white guys like Caruso or Pritchard. Not nearly as bad as it used to be when that Peele/Key bit was a reflection of everyday sports commentary, but probably something that's still in the water to some degree.
 

ManicCompression

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I did not ask you or anyone a question. I made an observation - I agree that discussing a player's race is inappropriate in terms of a basketball context, but this is a Boston messageboard and the thread for the 26th pick in the draft has been going since draft night while the higher ranked Nesmith's thread died out pretty much right after the draft (the last five 26th picks for reference: Dylan Windler, Landry Shamet, Caleb Swanigan, Furkan Korkmaz and Nikola Milutinov - so Pritchard may well be useful like Shamet, an NBA body like Swanigan and Korkmaz or nothing). I suspect the majority of interest in Pritchard is pure prospect dreaming but we owe it to ourselves to keep an eye on potential biases.
Isn't the more likely bias that Nesmith is a lottery pick and therefore we expect him to perform at a certain level while Pritchard is a late-first round flier that we have very little expectations for? If Nesmith plays solid D and hits 3s, then that's kind of the thing he's supposed to do. Pritchard dancing into the paint and fading away off glass was a little more juice than advertised.

Take a look at the Robert Williams thread post-draft - https://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?threads/r-dub-time-lord-tantalizing-sleeper-or-just-a-late-flier.23832/page-8

People we're talking about him being a possible Giannis stopper and salivating after three blocks in seven minutes during a preseason game. He was the 27th pick and we still hold out hope that he can burst into a starting caliber player. This board regularly gets irrationally stoked on binkies in the late-first and second - I think there were more posts about Carsen Edwards and Tacko than Romeo. I appreciate your sentiment, but people in here explode (in a good way!) when Granite sets a particularly solid screen. We're nerds about this stuff.
 

snowmanny

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Isn’t part of it that Pritchard was picked specifically because he might contribute this year or next year, not as a high-upside developmental lottery ticket? So there’s some excitement that he might be able to give twelve better than Wanamaker minutes a game this coming May?

I am guessing that if the same draft existed six years ago and Danny had the 26th pick he would have been less likely to take Pritchard.
 

RetractableRoof

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I enjoyed watching Pritchard last night, and I'm hopeful that he will be able to contribute this year.

However, and I say this out of general curiosity and it is not meant at all as an attack on any particular poster; I'm wondering how much of the hype that is taking place in this thread (and on different social media outlets) is because Pritchard is white. There is a lot to like about Pritchard for sure; he has clearly worked really hard to get a crack at the NBA and he seems like a nice kid; but why is there so much chatter about him, while Nesmith, who I also thought had a pretty strong debut, doesn't seem to be getting nearly as much hype.

At the same time, Jeff Teague had a very nice game last night for the Celtics, but basically got shit on in the game thread. I get it; Teague is a known quantity and it is fun to dream about what the young kids can become, but Teague and Pritchard have very similar stories. They are about the same size, not blessed with game changing athleticism, were both four star recruits that had to prove their ability in college to get drafted, both late first round picks and assuredly have both worked incredibly hard to get where they are. There might be a lot of cool stories about Pritchard working hard; but EVERYONE who made it to the NBA has worked extremely hard, especially point guards.

Anyway, like a lot of people I've been thinking about unconscious bias more over the past year. There was a discussion in this very thread about Isiah Thomas' comments about Larry Bird, how everyone referred to him as this unbelievable worker while the skills and work ethic of black athletes are taken for granted. I'd love to see Pritchard do well, but I'm also becoming more conscious of the praise he is receiving and if other worthy athletes are getting the same kind of attention, and what that says about fans and society in general.

Also, like everything involving race, there is a Key and Peele skit that it explains it:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IciBKdPlLfE
Maybe, just maybe people have things they value in their fandom. I value every single thing that Marcus Smart brings to the table on the court (excepting maybe his heat check 3 pointers). Put whatever labels you wish on it, but when I watch the limited bits of PP I've been able to, I see some portion of Marcus Smart in his game. There is a tenacity/dirt dog trait that I've always enjoyed in certain athletes, and appreciating it is not a function of skin color, it is for me generally a function of overcoming less than perfect set of physical skills/attributes to achieve what is often seen as less likely. If Marcus Smart has publicly indicated that he's not surprised that PP is having initial success - I'm willing to accept that as confirmation of what I think I see. If that makes Marcus guilty of falling for white hype, then I guess he'll have to live with it. I won't speak for him though, not my place.

I am a huge fan of Jackie Bradley Jr's defensive skills. He makes things look so effortless, so amazing. It isn't his merely God given skills, it's that he's done so many thousands of repetitions of whatever drills he feels necessary to make him so good at what he does (I'd use the term "mastery"). I appreciate that effort. I can say that I often marvel at his incredible results and have to remind myself that he is also an incredible technician in addition to whatever physical skills he possesses. I can't say however that he is getting more out of his physical tool set than he should be expected to or not, I'm not able to judge that in baseball. Jackie is going 1 on 1 against the flight of a baseball - without a peer in direct competition. On a basketball court, competitors are there to resist every effort, to ward off success. Competing physical gifts are often mirrored or overshadowed inches away from a player. Seeing one player achieve in the absence of a physical superiority in those situations or under those conditions is one of the things I find missing from baseball (aside from perhaps the confrontation between pitcher and batter).

I didn't second guess my fandom for IT4, when he was clearly at a significant size disadvantage and was delivering results one would expect from players with far more physical gifts. I didn't second guess my appreciation for Spud Webb (yes, I'm that old) when he was running around working his magic in the face of overwhelming odds due to his physical limitations. I don't second guess my affection and fandom for Tacko Fall who has yet to overcome/harness a different set of physical issues, nor do I hesitate to root for Grant Williams who is working hard to succeed despite not have the physique that Javonte Green is blessed with (and likely works very hard to maintain). I did not root for (other than for laundry purposes) Connor Henry who I thought was a one dimensional player. I do not have an affinity for Robert Williams because he has every physical gift a player could desire, something I cannot identify with - though I do appreciate the reports of him working hard and for laundry purposes hope he reaches his ceiling in Celtic green. Professional sports is littered with names of players who despite physical gifts that many of us could only dream of, couldn't put it together because a) their chosen profession is really really hard one to differentiate oneself, or b) they fell into the trap of relying on their physical gifts and not working hard enough at their 'craft', or c) one of many other reasons

In summary, I'm comfortable with who and how I root for various players, and it's not nor has it ever been because of their color. If anything it is because I am 5'-9" with no hops, and more likely to appreciate those players who are destined to compete professionally "below the rim" as it were (in basketball context). I will be honest enough to say the topic has been broached enough in these forums that I've become weary of the question/implication.

Edit: Just to add, I made a specific point to respond to a reasonable "pondering question" by Kliq, trying to offer a perspective for why one person has begun to root for him specifically. I will also add that the fact I've grown weary of the question being asked here is one part of why my posting in these threads has stopped - though in total that's probably a net positive for the forum, lol.
 
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Cesar Crespo

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Even with the extra posts in this thread discussing his race, the Nesmith thread has more posts.
Right.

Racism is real and I'm sure Pritchard has benefited from white privilege.

At the same time, I don't think white privilege is why the vast majority of us are discussing Pritchard's basketball performance. Of course, a lot of the conversation in this thread have nothing at all to do with his basketball performance. Half of the thread is about him being white.

The Nesmith thread doesn't have like 100+ posts discussing Nesmith being black... and it's still longer.
 

benhogan

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We can also just ignore the fact that our max PG may have arthritic knee issues for the next 3 seasons.

The Celtics need a + ballhandler to timeline with the JAYS. Personally, I don't care if it's Carsen, Tre or Pritchard. All are invited to step forward and be that young, rotational PG
 

Cesar Crespo

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The Celtics need a + ballhandler to timeline with the JAYS. Personally, I don't care if it's Carsen, Tre or Pritchard. All are invited to step forward and be that young, rotational PG
I'd heavily prefer Pritchard because of his size advantage over the other 2. He also has an extra year of control. I think he's the most likely to step forward too.

I'm not high on the other 2. I could see Waters possibly developing into something useful but I think Edwards is a 1 trick pony and I don't think his one trick is nearly good enough to make him a valuable player.

I had no real opinion on Pritchard when he was drafted. After RJ Hampton was drafted, I no longer had a player in mind. I figured he'd be a high floor/low ceiling guy that might provide a little value and be gone in 4 years. If he turns into something more, great.

I agree there is an eyeball test with players too and for me, Edwards doesn't pass it. I'm not sure Waters does either. Pritchard does, Nesmith does. Langford does. Grant does. TL does. It doesn't even necessarily mean the last 5 will be all that good, just that they belong in the NBA to some varying degree.

edit: There are certain cases where guys look completely lost but then adjust pretty quickly. See Yao Ming. I'm not sure how informative that is though. Man, did he look awful his first game.