Payton Pritchard drafted #26 overall

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
30,347
off-topic, but with free agency/draft/trades winding down and rosters pretty well set, over/under win totals out? thoughts
Probably what others are saying. When I put my win total plays together I’m looking for teams that have volatility so if I have an opinion on then I have a strong play. The Celtics are one of those teams who figure to have a narrow range as to where they will finish. I can’t do anything with teams like that. I am excited to put some effort into this again even though I seemingly always take it in the arse at the end one way or another.
 

Imbricus

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 26, 2017
4,878
Jesus. No wonder Danny likes him:

"He sets his alarm for 5:15 a.m. and dribbles for an hour every morning until his hands bleed."

 

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
54,114
I get a very "David Eckstein" vibe off a lot of these hype stories...
I too hope Pritchard finished 4th in ROY, finishes 11th in MVP voting, makes a couple AS teams, wins 2 rings, and wins MVP of a finals series.
 

Imbricus

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 26, 2017
4,878
Well, yeah, dribbling every morning until his hands bleed is over the top -- though it might have happened once or twice. Still, I believe the guy has intense self-discipline, motivation, ambition, and seems like a quintessential gym rat type (which Ainge likes apparently). I just wish he had been able to work out for the Celtics. My main concern is if he's quick and athletic enough for the NBA game.
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
20,368
Santa Monica
Hollywood pander at its finest

I'm not going to go bad on GH but he did have pain in the bad ankle and needed an injection last December (2yrs after the accident). Red Flag. And whenever I saw him off the court it was with his headset playing Call of Duty. Whenever I see Tatum in the offseason it's with Hanlan/gym.

I'm giving the ball to the 22yr old gym rat and not thinking twice about it.
 

DannyDarwinism

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 7, 2007
4,901
Well, yeah, dribbling every morning until his hands bleed is over the top -- though it might have happened once or twice. Still, I believe the guy has intense self-discipline, motivation, ambition, and seems like a quintessential gym rat type (which Ainge likes apparently). I just wish he had been able to work out for the Celtics. My main concern is if he's quick and athletic enough for the NBA game.
He started 140 games in the Pac-12, including plenty of time against NBA-level defenders. I’m not sure how much information an individual workout is going to add when it comes to the concerns about his quickness/athleticism.

By my eye, while his burst isn’t great, he has a really good sense of space on the floor, and knows how to use his body while keeping a live dribble. I think he’ll be used a lot off-ball this year, but the more I watch, the more bullish I am on him as a primary ball handler. Even on defense, he’s definitely roastable, but he takes good angles and anticipates well, which helps compensate for his lacks of foot speed.
 

128

Member
SoSH Member
May 4, 2019
10,096
He started 140 games in the Pac-12, including plenty of time against NBA-level defenders. I’m not sure how much information an individual workout is going to add when it comes to the concerns about his quickness/athleticism.

By my eye, while his burst isn’t great, he has a really good sense of space on the floor, and knows how to use his body while keeping a live dribble. I think he’ll be used a lot off-ball this year, but the more I watch, the more bullish I am on him as a primary ball handler. Even on defense, he’s definitely roastable, but he takes good angles and anticipates well, which helps compensate for his lacks of foot speed.
I wouldn't be surprised if he's worked out and/or played pickup with some of the Blazers too. On draft night, Dame Lillard congratulated Pritchard on Twitter.
 

bakahump

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jan 8, 2001
7,563
Maine
I get a very Larry Bird Vibe from his highlights. So I am evidently racist and sacreligious.

The Spacing and spatial awareness along with the "Comfort" in his athletic ability ("he knows he doesnt NEED to dunk") is what does it.

So after that 5 mins highlight vid mark me down for a couple MVPs and the HOF as Tatum plays Robin to his Batman.
 

djbayko

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
25,974
Los Angeles, CA
I loved the detail about how many shirts he sweats through. Like that's an indication of anything other than his natural propensity to sweat.
There's a lot of exaggeration going on with this guy. He's not dribbling until his hands bleed every day either.

We get it. He's a hard worker.
 

TripleOT

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 4, 2007
7,783
The NBA needs a white player who doesn’t work on his game a lot, isn’t too focused, isn’t scrappy, and just gets it done with natural ability. The last one I can think of is Chris Anderson.
 

BigSoxFan

Member
SoSH Member
May 31, 2007
47,252
The NBA needs a white player who doesn’t work on his game a lot, isn’t too focused, isn’t scrappy, and just gets it done with natural ability. The last one I can think of is Chris Anderson.
Jason “White Chocolate” Williams probably qualifies. Flashy too!
 

TripleOT

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 4, 2007
7,783
Jason “White Chocolate” Williams probably qualifies. Flashy too!
His work ethic was very strong, but his flashiness prevented commentators from calling his scrappy or lunch pail.

Too bad Robert Swift didn’t stick.
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
20,368
Santa Monica
European white guys usually get the worse title "lazy and unathletic"

but they make up for it with their "deceptive" Euro step.
 

Jimbodandy

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 31, 2006
11,527
around the way
The idea of any of these guys not being hard workers cracks me up. How many people throwing that label around are in the top 450 on Earth at what they do?
 

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
21,588
The idea of any of these guys not being hard workers cracks me up. How many people throwing that label around are in the top 450 on Earth at what they do?
Every now and then you have an Oliver Miller or Mike Sweetney. That's more a love of food though.

Then you get someone like Keon Clark. That's probably more a pot thing.
 

HowBoutDemSox

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 12, 2009
10,170
The NBA needs a white player who doesn’t work on his game a lot, isn’t too focused, isn’t scrappy, and just gets it done with natural ability. The last one I can think of is Chris Anderson.
Does this guy look like a gym rat?
 

luckiestman

Son of the Harpy
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
32,821
The NBA needs a white player who doesn’t work on his game a lot, isn’t too focused, isn’t scrappy, and just gets it done with natural ability. The last one I can think of is Chris Anderson.

Herro is more of a motherfucker than a grit guy.

Luka also seems like a talent bro
 

TripleOT

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 4, 2007
7,783
Herro is more of a motherfucker than a grit guy.

Luka also seems like a talent bro
Euros don’t count when we are evaluating racists tropes applied to white NBA players.

A popular narrative for white international players is they were trained as pros at such a young age, so that’s why they are good, with the inference the US Black players haven’t been at it since a young age, although they have been in the AAU/HS loop instead of a junior level of a international pro team
 

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
54,114
Tatum and Brown are called hard workers too.

Anything tangible to his game we can talk about?
 

Kliq

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 31, 2013
22,838
Euros don’t count when we are evaluating racists tropes applied to white NBA players.

A popular narrative for white international players is they were trained as pros at such a young age, so that’s why they are good, with the inference the US Black players haven’t been at it since a young age, although they have been in the AAU/HS loop instead of a junior level of a international pro team
Thank you, there are five types of "white guys" in basketball:

1. Stereotypically White: Players who are just undoubtedly, unapologetically WHITE, to the point that their race becomes almost their defining characteristic. Scal, Mark Madsen, Matt Bonner, Greg Stiemsma, Dan Dickau, TJ McConnell, etc.

2. White But Effective: Players who are very stereotypically white, but are useful NBA players: Doug McDermott, Kyle Korver, Chandler Parsons, Ryan Anderson, etc.

3. White Guys Who Play Like Black Guys: The Billy Hoyle All-Stars, as Bill Simmons once called them, these are your Jason Williams, Birdman Andersen, Tyler Herro, etc.

4. Euros.

5. Players So Good They Transcend Race: Elite players who are so good people don't really think about them being white. Larry Bird, Jerry West, Kevin Love, Dirk, Luka, Haywood, etc.
 

slamminsammya

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2006
9,423
San Francisco
Thank you, there are five types of "white guys" in basketball:

1. Stereotypically White: Players who are just undoubtedly, unapologetically WHITE, to the point that their race becomes almost their defining characteristic. Scal, Mark Madsen, Matt Bonner, Greg Stiemsma, Dan Dickau, TJ McConnell, etc.

2. White But Effective: Players who are very stereotypically white, but are useful NBA players: Doug McDermott, Kyle Korver, Chandler Parsons, Ryan Anderson, etc.

3. White Guys Who Play Like Black Guys: The Billy Hoyle All-Stars, as Bill Simmons once called them, these are your Jason Williams, Birdman Andersen, Tyler Herro, etc.

4. Euros.

5. Players So Good They Transcend Race: Elite players who are so good people don't really think about them being white. Larry Bird, Jerry West, Kevin Love, Dirk, Luka, Haywood, etc.
I think Nick Caruso is transcending 1 and 2 these days.

I wasn't around during that era but didn't a lot of people think about Larry Bird being white? Especially in the context of the Celtics being seen (rightly or wrongly) as the "white" team in contrast with the Lakers?
 

BigSoxFan

Member
SoSH Member
May 31, 2007
47,252
I think Nick Caruso is transcending 1 and 2 these days.

I wasn't around during that era but didn't a lot of people think about Larry Bird being white? Especially in the context of the Celtics being seen (rightly or wrongly) as the "white" team in contrast with the Lakers?
Isiah Thomas certainly did. What was that quote, that Bird would be just another guy if he were black?
 

Jimy Hendrix

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 15, 2002
5,857
Isiah Thomas certainly did. What was that quote, that Bird would be just another guy if he were black?
Given his post-playing career, I am almost willing to believe that this was not just sour grapes, but was in fact Isiah Thomas the talent evaluator scouting a player to the best of his abilities.
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
30,614
Thank you, there are five types of "white guys" in basketball:

1. Stereotypically White: Players who are just undoubtedly, unapologetically WHITE, to the point that their race becomes almost their defining characteristic. Scal, Mark Madsen, Matt Bonner, Greg Stiemsma, Dan Dickau, TJ McConnell, etc.

2. White But Effective: Players who are very stereotypically white, but are useful NBA players: Doug McDermott, Kyle Korver, Chandler Parsons, Ryan Anderson, etc.

3. White Guys Who Play Like Black Guys: The Billy Hoyle All-Stars, as Bill Simmons once called them, these are your Jason Williams, Birdman Andersen, Tyler Herro, etc.

4. Euros.

5. Players So Good They Transcend Race: Elite players who are so good people don't really think about them being white. Larry Bird, Jerry West, Kevin Love, Dirk, Luka, Haywood, etc.
I think NH's own Matt Bonner could be a 2. 800 career 3-pointers at a 41% clip is nothing to sneeze at.
 

BigSoxFan

Member
SoSH Member
May 31, 2007
47,252
I think NH's own Matt Bonner could be a 2. 800 career 3-pointers at a 41% clip is nothing to sneeze at.
I think he’s a 1-2 hybrid. People in SA called him the “Red Rocket” due to his hair, which is pretty much an extension of his whiteness but he clearly was a very effective stretch 4 playing off TD. I’m actually quite impressed with Kliq’s groupings here. I think he got it pretty close.
 

nighthob

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
12,712
Isiah Thomas certainly did. What was that quote, that Bird would be just another guy if he were black?
Dennis Rodman is actually the man that spoke the words, and he didn’t say that Bird’d be a JAG (Bird used to torment Rodman, so the Worm’s hatred ran deep). The reporters ran to Thomas after, and he attempted to make a point about how reporters discussed white players in basketball and ended the long talk by echoing Rodman’s statement sarcastically. Unfortunately he was talking to a bunch of idiots.
 

DannyDarwinism

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 7, 2007
4,901
I just found this 1987 WaPo piece from Tony Kornheiser from the time of the quote, and coincidentally, it was part of a longer statement from Isiah where he’s taking to task the same notions we’re mocking here.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/sports/1987/06/03/a-hue-and-cry-of-celtics-gain/0a65c1cb-fb7e-401d-941f-bb601423bc66/?utm_source=reddit.com

“Speaking of the stereotypical way black players and white players are categorized, Isiah said, sardonically, "When Bird makes a great play, it's due to his thinking and his work habits. It's all planned out by him . . . All we do is run and jump. We never practice or give a thought to how we play. It's like I came dribbling out of my mother's womb."

Isiah took deserved umbrage at the euphemistic use of the word "athlete" to connote blacks. "Magic and Michael Jordan and me, we're playing on God-given talent, like we're animals -- lions and tigers who run around wild in a jungle, while Larry's success is due to intelligence and hard work."”
 

lexrageorge

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
18,222
Dennis Rodman is actually the man that spoke the words, and he didn’t say that Bird’d be a JAG (Bird used to torment Rodman, so the Worm’s hatred ran deep). The reporters ran to Thomas after, and he attempted to make a point about how reporters discussed white players in basketball and ended the long talk by echoing Rodman’s statement sarcastically. Unfortunately he was talking to a bunch of idiots.
I just found this 1987 WaPo piece from Tony Kornheiser from the time of the quote, and coincidentally, it was part of a longer statement from Isiah where he’s taking to task the same notions we’re mocking here.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/sports/1987/06/03/a-hue-and-cry-of-celtics-gain/0a65c1cb-fb7e-401d-941f-bb601423bc66/?utm_source=reddit.com

“Speaking of the stereotypical way black players and white players are categorized, Isiah said, sardonically, "When Bird makes a great play, it's due to his thinking and his work habits. It's all planned out by him . . . All we do is run and jump. We never practice or give a thought to how we play. It's like I came dribbling out of my mother's womb."

Isiah took deserved umbrage at the euphemistic use of the word "athlete" to connote blacks. "Magic and Michael Jordan and me, we're playing on God-given talent, like we're animals -- lions and tigers who run around wild in a jungle, while Larry's success is due to intelligence and hard work."”
Both Isiah Thomas and Bird have tried to correct the media record on these statements multiple times. Bird even said he agreed with Thomas.
 

Kliq

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 31, 2013
22,838
@Kliq

Where is Gordon? 4.25?
If you are referring to Hayward's placement, I see I've somehow autocorrected his name to Haywood in my original post. Gordon is a 5; he's mainly seen first as a very good player and not as a token white guy limited to "white guy" skills like shooting.

There was once a good article in The Undefeated that spoke with a bunch of white NBA players; and I think it was McDermott who mentioned what it was like playing on the elite AAU circuit; and all of the top teams would have one white player, and everyone knew that player was the shooter so anytime they checked in all the opposing players would all tell each other that the new guy was definitely a shooter; otherwise why else would he be on the team?

Edit: Here is the article, it was Jimmer that mentioned the AAU thing.

https://theundefeated.com/features/white-american-nba-players/
Slamminsammya brings up an interesting point with Bird. Bird might be in his own sixth category; where he was so great that his race became a more central part of his identity; he became the defacto comparison for any white person who shows some basketball skill; so he does not necessarily transcend race. Someone less successful, like Chris Mullin, more transcends race because people don't really think of his as being a white player, he is just an All-Star player. Dirk would fall in the same category for the Euros; every Euro player in subsequent generations has been compared to Dirk in some form.