Pawsox being sold to Red Sox Ownership

Zomp said:
I just can't see there being enough space in the old 195 space.  Its not like Providence has a light rail or anything besides busses for public transportation, so a big parking lot will be needed.
For the past 2 or so years Providence has been floating the idea of building a streetcar system, although everyone admits it is a goal more than a proposal.  It would be really cool if the city were able to work that idea into the idea of a south street landing site, as most of the pipe-dream level plans have run right by there:
 
http://gcpvd.org/images/pages/mts/pdf/mts-build-a-providence-streetcar.pdf
 

smastroyin

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Yes, if done properly this stadium could unite a few proposals:
 
- Streetcar.  Brown had wanted to the streetcar to connect College Hill to the med school, so this would fit into that.
- Parking garage for the Family and Municipal courts.  You could probably work something out here because likely the garage could be shared, other than weekday day games.  But maybe make the garage to 130% of current capacity proposal to account from some overflow and leave reserved spots for the judges, etc.
- Waterfront park and pedestrian bridge.  As I alluded above, there is a proposal to build a pedestrian bridge over the old 195 footings.  These lead right into the spot that we all assumed is being investigated.  Problem is that even though there was a separate grant to pay for this stuff, the money is probably not ready to flow yet.  So maybe you integrate with that whole proposal, and get something maybe like what the Pirates did with the space between PNC and the river, just on a smaller scale.  So the city gives up some park space but the team agrees to let a large portion of that space be open to the public during non game time.  In exchange they develop it and maintain it.  Who knows.
 
This is all pretty ideal, but if they want to be open for 2017 I think they will need some concessions.  I hope the city and state don't just back down like they always do and let the develop do whatever shitty thing they want.
 

The Gray Eagle

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How far is the commuter rail station from the proposed new ballpark site? Is it a fairly easy walk?
 
If they are moving to Providence, they need to make it easy for people from Boston to take the train to the games. I would bet there would be lots of people interested in taking the train to a AAA game of the Red Sox affiliate. That could be a fun trip to go see the next generation of Sox players, without having to deal with traffic or parking.
 

smastroyin

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It's not far, nothing in providence is far. Maybe a mile to mile and half. Slightly annoying walk traffic wise but no worse than Boylston.
 

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The Gray Eagle said:
How far is the commuter rail station from the proposed new ballpark site? Is it a fairly easy walk?
 
If they are moving to Providence, they need to make it easy for people from Boston to take the train to the games. I would bet there would be lots of people interested in taking the train to a AAA game of the Red Sox affiliate. That could be a fun trip to go see the next generation of Sox players, without having to deal with traffic or parking.
 
I wouldn't call it an easy walk.  It's not long, less than a mile, bit it's not direct, maybe similar to walking from South Station to Quincy Market?
 

Darnell's Son

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@PatrickAnderso_: Skeffington says ticket, parking prices will be kept at McCoy levels in new stadium. Why not raise prices, lower subsidy?
 
Patrick is a reporter at the Providence Journal.
 

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Zomp said:
I just can't see there being enough space in the old 195 space.  Its not like Providence has a light rail or anything besides busses for public transportation, so a big parking lot will be needed.
 
As far as the lot being big enough for a stadium, I'd have to think they'd acquire and raze the Brown U. Continuing Ed building to the north. They'd also privatize and cover most of Dyer Street there, while Ship Street east of that point would no longer be a vehicular right-of-way. If home plate were near the SE corner of that lot, the LF line would run toward/near a single-story older brick building (1 Ship Street) and the newer 196 Richmond Street.
 
The image below shows how the Iron Pigs current AAA stadium could fit into that site. It would take up about 2/3 of the Brown U building site & present parking lot (top of screen). Of course, the orientation could be rotated 10-15 degrees to the right to limit the infringement of the Ship & Richmond Street properties. Screen grabs of both sites taken from 1,000 feet elevation relative to ground:
 

 
 
And here's a half-assed view from Google Earth of the site and skyline:
 
 

SoxJox

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As I stated in the other thread:
 
There is really no way - given RI politics - that a park can be dropped in that location in the next...10 years.
 
 
Or stated another way: RI politics will ensure that a park will most definitely be wedged into that crevice in the next 3 months.
 
Our state legislators and city officials will be falling all over themselves to see how much they can pad their pockets on this one.  YeeHAAAWWWW.
 

JimD

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The Gray Eagle said:
How far is the commuter rail station from the proposed new ballpark site? Is it a fairly easy walk?
 
If they are moving to Providence, they need to make it easy for people from Boston to take the train to the games. I would bet there would be lots of people interested in taking the train to a AAA game of the Red Sox affiliate. That could be a fun trip to go see the next generation of Sox players, without having to deal with traffic or parking.
 
RIPTA (the state transit agency) has some of those buses that look like old time trolleys - it would be easy enough to set up a game day shuttle from the train station and downtown to the stadium area.
 

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Lose Remerswaal said:
Given that location, I would guess the orientation would be with LF facing the "skyline" and RF facing the river, so you could have home runs land in the water
 
Right on: "(New owner Skeffington) described a ballpark designed in such a way that the Providence skyline would be visible over the left-field wall and that home runs over the right-field wall would land in the Providence River."
 
http://www.providencejournal.com/article/20150223/NEWS/150229636
 

SidelineCameras

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This project is bittersweet. As a Providence native, I love the idea of a downtown ballpark and I think it would look great in that location if done properly. It is also close enough to downtown to be a part of that while having enough land around it for more shops and restaurants to be built. And I love the idea of leaving a game one night and strolling over to Waterfire, that sounds like a pretty perfect summer's evening.
 
I will miss McCoy quite deeply. Most of the reasons are nostalgia-based but they are definitely there. When this thread started, I was worried about the team moving to Hartford or Worcester or Portsmouth NH or something, so I'll take Providence over those in a cocaine-heartbeat, but my fond memories of McCoy make me sad that they are moving at all. Oh well, I'll just have to get there as often as possible over the next two seasons. 
 

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LoneWarrior1 said:
 
I think Skeffington wants to replicate the McCovey Cove phenomenon, but I'm not sure I'd want to take a kayak in that water.
I've led some kayak tours in there  - it isn't bad. Remember the Providence waste water plant is downstream, and all of the ones on the Blackstone dump in at India point, so you would only get any swirl coming in with the tide through the hurricane barrier. I wouldn't drink the water, but boating is fine. Now what is tough is that the area around the old 195 bridge is very shallow at low tide because of the old footings - mudflat city. There is also a canoe/kayak launch pretty much across the river, so we've got that going for us.
 

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being a pawtucket native, people are borderline suicidal over this news, it's unreal. one person calling anyone not vehemtnly opposed to this "soulless."  Another friend insists that the Pawsox being in Pawtucket means "so much to most of the state" so i ask non-Pawtucket RI-ers, does the team being in Mccoy have any major impact on you?  I contend that most of the state doesnt care where the team is, as long as it's in RI.
 

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That would be me. I grew up in Lincoln, and went to McCoy a bunch. Once I and one other kid got a private tour from Ben Mondor, who arranged for Bruce Hurst to just happen to drop by. So I have some very fond memories of McCoy. I even wrote an article about the building of McCoy. I am also somewhat leery of what this could end up costing me as a tax payer and/or in missed opportunities for more valuable development of that land in Providence. 

That aside though, I now live in Warwick with three kids so my travel time would be greatly reduced to the new place. And sitting in the stands overlooking Jenks Jr. High and the moribund remains of Hasbro ain't all that it is cracked up to be. The have only spent time before or after a game at McCoy when I have been there for fireworks, or team promo stuff like autograph day - why else would you.  I can see a lot of people who would leave work in downtown Providence and walk over to the new park - or get dinner first. Hotels could also add game tickets to packages and conventions so I can see a lot of opportunities for a new Providence ballpark.  As long as they stay local, it won't break me up much.
 

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steveluck7 said:
being a pawtucket native, people are borderline suicidal over this news, it's unreal. one person calling anyone not vehemtnly opposed to this "soulless."  Another friend insists that the Pawsox being in Pawtucket means "so much to most of the state" so i ask non-Pawtucket RI-ers, does the team being in Mccoy have any major impact on you?  I contend that most of the state doesnt care where the team is, as long as it's in RI.
 
The thing that is tugging on my nostalgic heartstrings is McCoy itself, not Pawtucket. I have fond memories of being in the stadium, it's where I went to my first ever baseball game, I saw Big Papi hit a HR there on a rehab assignment, blah blah blah. Pawtucket means nothing to me in this equation, and my mom lives in Pawtucket. I would feel this same way if they were leaving Central Falls, West Warwick, or Tiverton. I am mostly relieved that they're staying in RI and not going somewhere like Worcester, Hartford, or Fall River.
 
There is a genuine concern about ticket prices and parking increasing, if only because they were so ridiculously low (or free!) for such a long time. I don't agree with comment sections on Projo and other sites decrying '$100 tickets for East Siders' or families being priced out of the stadium, minor league baseball thrives on families and civic groups attending. But since prices were beyond reasonable for so long, it's natural to expect some increase.
 
The other Internet pearl-clutching that's killing me are comments about Providence being "unsafe." Please, if you felt safe driving to that neighborhood in Pawtucket, you are fine going to that part of Providence.
 

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SidelineCameras said:
 
The thing that is tugging on my nostalgic heartstrings is McCoy itself, not Pawtucket. I have fond memories of being in the stadium, it's where I went to my first ever baseball game, I saw Big Papi hit a HR there on a rehab assignment, blah blah blah. Pawtucket means nothing to me in this equation, and my mom lives in Pawtucket. I would feel this same way if they were leaving Central Falls, West Warwick, or Tiverton. I am mostly relieved that they're staying in RI and not going somewhere like Worcester, Hartford, or Fall River.
 
There is a genuine concern about ticket prices and parking increasing, if only because they were so ridiculously low (or free!) for such a long time. I don't agree with comment sections on Projo and other sites decrying '$100 tickets for East Siders' or families being priced out of the stadium, minor league baseball thrives on families and civic groups attending. But since prices were beyond reasonable for so long, it's natural to expect some increase.
 
The other Internet pearl-clutching that's killing me are comments about Providence being "unsafe." Please, if you felt safe driving to that neighborhood in Pawtucket, you are fine going to that part of Providence.
I looked into pricing for other IL teams. Pawtucket was basically middle of the pack with their highest price being $13. The highest (non ;uxury box type seat) i could find in the league was in Charlotte and was $16. The model wouldn't support a big price increase. parking will likey be a new cost but we're not looking at Fenway or Gilette parking prices.
 
I was talking to a friend last night and said i'd love to hear an argument against the move that didn't fall into "but but but... affordable... fireworks... providence is scary"
 

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steveluck7 said:
I looked into pricing for other IL teams. Pawtucket was basically middle of the pack with their highest price being $13. The highest (non ;uxury box type seat) i could find in the league was in Charlotte and was $16. The model wouldn't support a big price increase. parking will likey be a new cost but we're not looking at Fenway or Gilette parking prices.
 
I was talking to a friend last night and said i'd love to hear an argument against the move that didn't fall into "but but but... affordable... fireworks... providence is scary"
 
Add "people fear change...Ben Mondor... and Longest Game" and you've hit all the salient points.
 

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steveluck7 said:
being a pawtucket native, people are borderline suicidal over this news, it's unreal. one person calling anyone not vehemtnly opposed to this "soulless."  Another friend insists that the Pawsox being in Pawtucket means "so much to most of the state" so i ask non-Pawtucket RI-ers, does the team being in Mccoy have any major impact on you?  I contend that most of the state doesnt care where the team is, as long as it's in RI.
 
Grew us just over the border in MA, I went to a zillion games as a kid, worked there in college which is how I met my wife (the Mo Vaughn years, when attendance was really starting to take off), we live in Cumberland now and bring our baseball-loving sons to several games a year.  They put us on the pass list any time we call but sometimes we just buy the tickets anyway out of obligation.  So I've got plenty of emotional skin in McCoy.  I'm sad to see it go and it will never be quite the same for us, but I also know that this was inevitable and better in Providence than Hartford or Worcester of wherever.
 
JimD said:
 
RIPTA (the state transit agency) has some of those buses that look like old time trolleys - it would be easy enough to set up a game day shuttle from the train station and downtown to the stadium area.
The problem is that the train station has no good area for the busses to collect people from, meaning they are walking at least between the train station (north of Station Park, basically the western terminus of Waterplace Park) to Kennedy Plaza.  The only two ways to walk that route are 1.) through Waterplace Park (think the tunnel which runs to Capital Grille), which the city would love as people could just skip the bus entirely and walk the entire park/promenade down to the stadium site or 2.) across Memorial Blvd., which would be a nightmare of traffic and bodies and their occasional gruesome intersection.
My guess is that the city would love people to just take the train in, stroll the Western side of Waterplace park, and maybe hit up South Water Street on the Eastern side on the way back.
 

smastroyin

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Some points:
 
- standard seats aren't the issue, it's getting corporate/luxury seats.
- The water in the Providence river is fine.  But as noted it's largely a tidal river, so it gets low.
- Pawtucket only cares about the name.  I realize residents are nostalgic and annoyed, but the city really sees not much benefit from the team.  I have seen (some of) the numbers.  Even as a Pawtucket resident, I don't find this to be some kind of tragic loss for the town.
- However, I still worry about building a new stadium when you have a serviceable one, especially when you are going to be sticking your hands out for taxpayers to foot the bill.  They haven't done this yet but they always do it.  I would hate to lose the team but I would rather do that than pay for a baseball stadium out of RI or PVD money.
 

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smastroyin said:
Some points:
 
 
 
- Pawtucket only cares about the name.  I realize residents are nostalgic and annoyed, but the city really sees not much benefit from the team.  I have seen (some of) the numbers.  Even as a Pawtucket resident, I don't find this to be some kind of tragic loss for the town.
 
Many have gone from "rooting for laundry" to "rooting for concrete." Not one mention in all of the hand-wringing i've seen about being depived of baseball (the actual on-field product) in Pawtucket
 

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I don't know.  Almost anyone who's ever met one of us knows that Rhode Islanders are strange people.  I grew up in Smithfield, but have lived in either Providence or Pawtucket since college and now live almost literally on the border, barely on the Pawtucket side.  There is a staggering percentage of people who live around here who can see downtown Providence from their living rooms but almost never go there.  Certainly the early feedback is almost unanimously against this.
 
Besides the obvious nostalgia for McCoy, the small-time feel of the PawSox will be difficult to recreate.  Just took my son to their Hot Stove event a couple of weeks ago.  It was not overwhelming, but it was a neat way to spend a crappy Saturday afternoon: Free hot dogs, pictures w/the Governor's Cup, poke around the clubhouse and check out all the old photos.  It was the sort of thing that could be missing in the future.
 
Obviously, they are not counting on Pawtucket residents only to come to the new park. It should be more accessible from Warwick and Cranston, and that will help.  But a shiny new park may not be what everyone wants.  I'm barely old enough to remember the RI Auditorium, but my brother was a season-ticket holder for the Reds.  We went to their first game at the new Civic Center and he sat down, took a look around and said "This place is too nice.  It sucks."  Most everyone else agreed.  They were gone a few years later.
 
I don't think the same thing will happen here, but there's still a chance that it will suck, which is all I'm worried about.  Hopefully, they do it right.  It's going to take a lot of work, but the potential is there for a great park.
 
Would there be any chance of salvaging McCoy with some sort of very low-level replacement franchise?
 
 
 
 
 

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moretsyndrome said:
 
 
Besides the obvious nostalgia for McCoy, the small-time feel of the PawSox will be difficult to recreate.  Just took my son to their Hot Stove event a couple of weeks ago.  It was not overwhelming, but it was a neat way to spend a crappy Saturday afternoon: Free hot dogs, pictures w/the Governor's Cup, poke around the clubhouse and check out all the old photos.  It was the sort of thing that could be missing in the future.
 


 
Why would this, for instance, change in any way with a new stadium? Stuff like that is a function of minor league baseball, not solely the Pawsox and McCoy Stadium. You'd be speding an equally crappy saturday afternoon, eating the same free hot dogs, poking around a nicer, bigger clubhouse and looking at the same old photos.  The big difference? Immediately aferwards, you could walk with your son to the Children's Museum (also a relic of Pawtucket!) or drive over to Kennedy Plaza and go ice skating
 

charlieoscar

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A slight aside to this: The owner of the Potomac Nationals (Carolina League-A) is planning on financing the new stadium he hopes to build by selling naming rights to four groups, or founding partnerships as he calls them.
 
And a big aside: They were once the Alexandria Dukes, a Carolina League team but independent, at first. The ball field was at the Cora Kelly Elementary School and although it was closed, they were not allowed to sell beer. They became affiliated with the Mariners, then the Pirates, before being moved to Prince William County. A friend of mine worked for the club's president and I was offered the clubhouse job, which I turned down (something I still wonder whether the correct decision). The ball field was the worst professional park I have ever seen a game in, and I've seen a lot of parks. They hosted the 1982 All-Star game and catcher Dave Malpeso of the Winston-Salem Red Sox backed the center fielder up against the wall in just about straightaway CF on his first three at bats before hitting one over the fence on his fourth AB. And the starting pitcher, while warming up before the game, threw a pitch so wild it missed the backstop and nearly clocked a guy at the refreshment stand counter.
 

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For all of the talk of the stadium, old and new, ultimately isn't the real draw being able to see Red Sox prospects? I have a hard time believing the PawSox would draw 8-9K a game if they were the PawMariners.

New England as a region really only seems to support minor league teams in a big way when they're affiliated with one of our pro teams. The P-Bruins draw well, while the Manchester Monarchs, Hartford Wolfpack, Springfield Falcons and Portland Pirates don't. I doubt that's because Rhode Islanders are just rabid AHL fans.

So I guess I'm perplexed why there's concern about much of anything aside from nostalgia and government spending? Tickets aren't going to be $40 and hot dogs aren't going to cost the same as the veal down the street.
 

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Don't hold your breath waiting for a new tenant at McCoy once it's vacated.
 
The PawSox will be able to prevent any other affiliated minor league team from moving to Pawtucket or anywhere else in their designated territory. A summer league team (NECBL, FCBL) would be theoretically possible but I'd imagine the overhead and field maintenance costs there would significantly outstrip revenues. College wood bat leagues operate for less than two months and charge at most $6 for admission, with many teams in both those leagues offering discounted family deals (ex. $12 for four).
 
An independent league team also appears to be a long shot as the logistics of the only two regional candidate leagues pose a significant challenge. In the Atlantic League the expansion trend is to the south (Virginia/Carolinas) and west (Texas); right now, Bridgeport is its northernmost and easternmost franchise.
 
Meanwhile the Can-Am League has struggled financially, with several clubs folding in recent years. Since 2007, eight of its teams have gone belly-up including five in New England: North Shore (Lynn MA), Nashua, New Haven, Pittsfield & Worcester. Also, Brockton converted to an FCBL summer league operation. The Can-Am is now down to six teams: three in Canada (Montreal, Ottawa, Quebec City) and three in New Jersey.
 

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8slim said:
For all of the talk of the stadium, old and new, ultimately isn't the real draw being able to see Red Sox prospects? I have a hard time believing the PawSox would draw 8-9K a game if they were the PawMariners.

New England as a region really only seems to support minor league teams in a big way when they're affiliated with one of our pro teams. The P-Bruins draw well, while the Manchester Monarchs, Hartford Wolfpack, Springfield Falcons and Portland Pirates don't. I doubt that's because Rhode Islanders are just rabid AHL fans.

So I guess I'm perplexed why there's concern about much of anything aside from nostalgia and government spending? Tickets aren't going to be $40 and hot dogs aren't going to cost the same as the veal down the street.
I actually think that NB Rock Cats have drawn pretty well through their years as a Twins affiliation.
 

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Return of the Dewey said:
I actually think that NB Rock Cats have drawn pretty well through their years as a Twins affiliation.
They've typically been middle of the pack in Eastern League attendance. It's OK, but I imagine they'd draw much better if they were a Sox or Yankees affiliate.
 

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SoxJox said:
 
As I stated in the other thread:
 
There is really no way - given RI politics - that a park can be dropped in that location in the next...10 years.
 
 
Or stated another way: RI politics will ensure that a park will most definitely be wedged into that crevice in the next 3 months.
 
Our state legislators and city officials will be falling all over themselves to see how much they can pad their pockets on this one.  YeeHAAAWWWW.
 
 
These were among the first thoughts that occurred to me when the story broke -- I can't believe folks are taking for granted that a deal will be consummated and a project completed in two years. I'd set the odds of the stadium opening on-time, as planned at maybe 25%? This being a state with one of the weakest economies in the country, and among the richest traditions of political corruption. (As a reminder: In just the last year, the House Speaker was forced to resign amid a federal ethics probe, while the former AG was cited in a NY Times expose on lobbying improprieties, implying undue influence over the current AG's office.) Maybe I'm underestimating the competence of the new governor, but the political complexities and sheer number of palms that will need to be greased for this all to happen should not be under-estimated. 
 
By publicly declaring intentions of an in-state move, the new ownership group has blunted some of the outcry/criticism they might have otherwise faced in moving the team away from Pawtucket. That being said, it wouldn't surprise me if they are keeping a fast-track Plan B option close to the vest, as a hedge against the daunting prospects of getting this (admittedly very attractive) project done.
 
A downtown stadium will require close public-private partnership, and speaking from firsthand experience, Rhode Island government simply doesn't work above board. 
 

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mabrowndog said:
Don't hold your breath waiting for a new tenant at McCoy once it's vacated.
 
The PawSox will be able to prevent any other affiliated minor league team from moving to Pawtucket or anywhere else in their designated territory. A summer league team (NECBL, FCBL) would be theoretically possible but I'd imagine the overhead and field maintenance costs there would significantly outstrip revenues. College wood bat leagues operate for less than two months and charge at most $6 for admission, with many teams in both those leagues offering discounted family deals (ex. $12 for four).
 
An independent league team also appears to be a long shot as the logistics of the only two regional candidate leagues pose a significant challenge. In the Atlantic League the expansion trend is to the south (Virginia/Carolinas) and west (Texas); right now, Bridgeport is its northernmost and easternmost franchise.
 
Meanwhile the Can-Am League has struggled financially, with several clubs folding in recent years. Since 2007, eight of its teams have gone belly-up including five in New England: North Shore (Lynn MA), Nashua, New Haven, Pittsfield & Worcester. Also, Brockton converted to an FCBL summer league operation. The Can-Am is now down to six teams: three in Canada (Montreal, Ottawa, Quebec City) and three in New Jersey.
Yeah, I was just shocked to find out there are two NECBL teams already in RI. I knew about the one in Newport, but there is one down in South Kingston the Ocean State Waves, who seem to play on a muni-field with a couple of bleachers. Season tickets (21 games) are $50 and you get a hat thrown in.
 

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moretsyndrome said:
I don't know.  Almost anyone who's ever met one of us knows that Rhode Islanders are strange people.  I grew up in Smithfield, but have lived in either Providence or Pawtucket since college and now live almost literally on the border, barely on the Pawtucket side.  There is a staggering percentage of people who live around here who can see downtown Providence from their living rooms but almost never go there.  Certainly the early feedback is almost unanimously against this.
 
Besides the obvious nostalgia for McCoy, the small-time feel of the PawSox will be difficult to recreate.  Just took my son to their Hot Stove event a couple of weeks ago.  It was not overwhelming, but it was a neat way to spend a crappy Saturday afternoon: Free hot dogs, pictures w/the Governor's Cup, poke around the clubhouse and check out all the old photos.  It was the sort of thing that could be missing in the future.
 
Obviously, they are not counting on Pawtucket residents only to come to the new park. It should be more accessible from Warwick and Cranston, and that will help.  But a shiny new park may not be what everyone wants.  I'm barely old enough to remember the RI Auditorium, but my brother was a season-ticket holder for the Reds.  We went to their first game at the new Civic Center and he sat down, took a look around and said "This place is too nice.  It sucks."  Most everyone else agreed.  They were gone a few years later.
 
 
 
Would there be any chance of salvaging McCoy with some sort of very low-level replacement franchise?
 
 
 
 
 
 
mabrowndog said:
Don't hold your breath waiting for a new tenant at McCoy once it's vacated.
 
 
From what I was told, Pawtucket residents made up a very small percentage of attendance. Their customer data showed were drawing from all over New England and therefore a move shouldn't cut into those figures, but rather increase them due to the allure of a new location / stadium. They may actually get a double bump in attendance with people wanting to attend McCoy while it's still open and then check out the next stadium when it opens. The old research I had heard was that teams usually get a 5-year spike in attendance when a new stadium opens.
 
Also, I wouldn't be surprised if McCoy ends up being torn down in the next decade. The school department had been eying that area, particularly the school across the street, for a new centralized high school back in 2013.
 

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I did some work on this with MLB teams several years ago (all I need to do is figure out which of my 14 back-up drives the spreadsheet is on--I have a lot of photographs) and I don't recall the spike lasting as long as five years. I do recall that as time started approaching the end of my study that the spikes lasted shorter and shorter durations. I did see some indication of the bump starting before a new stadium opened.
 

Papo The Snow Tiger

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Aug 18, 2010
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mabrowndog said:
Don't hold your breath waiting for a new tenant at McCoy once it's vacated.
 
The PawSox will be able to prevent any other affiliated minor league team from moving to Pawtucket or anywhere else in their designated territory. A summer league team (NECBL, FCBL) would be theoretically possible but I'd imagine the overhead and field maintenance costs there would significantly outstrip revenues. College wood bat leagues operate for less than two months and charge at most $6 for admission, with many teams in both those leagues offering discounted family deals (ex. $12 for four).
 
An independent league team also appears to be a long shot as the logistics of the only two regional candidate leagues pose a significant challenge. In the Atlantic League the expansion trend is to the south (Virginia/Carolinas) and west (Texas); right now, Bridgeport is its northernmost and easternmost franchise.
 
Meanwhile the Can-Am League has struggled financially, with several clubs folding in recent years. Since 2007, eight of its teams have gone belly-up including five in New England: North Shore (Lynn MA), Nashua, New Haven, Pittsfield & Worcester. Also, Brockton converted to an FCBL summer league operation. The Can-Am is now down to six teams: three in Canada (Montreal, Ottawa, Quebec City) and three in New Jersey.
I'm beginning to see some similarities between the PawSox leaving Pawtucket and the Rock Cats leaving New Britain; a popular local team being poached by a bigger nearby city with the promise of a new  stadiium and lots of people not happy with it. I can't speak for the good folks in Rhode Island, but I know a lot of Connecticut residents who went to lots of Rock Cats games who don't like the way the whole moving situation was handled and vow to never step foot in the new stadium in Hartford. A lot of people say they will support an Indy league team if they were to come to New Britski, and I think there's a built in fan base that would give a new team at some support. An Atlantic League team, with some former major leaguers you may have at least heard of, may make it.
 

LoneWarrior1

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charlieoscar said:
I did some work on this with MLB teams several years ago (all I need to do is figure out which of my 14 back-up drives the spreadsheet is on--I have a lot of photographs) and I don't recall the spike lasting as long as five years. I do recall that as time started approaching the end of my study that the spikes lasted shorter and shorter durations. I did see some indication of the bump starting before a new stadium opened.
 
I'd be interested in what you find. We often discussed that the new stadium had resulted in a longer-than-anticipated attendance boost of 7-8 years. This boost also took place during the Red Sox resurgence along with the restocking of the farm system, so that may skew the data in Pawtucket.
 

Mugsy's Jock

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For what can certainly be a collection of cranky old farts, I find the overall reaction in this SoSH thread to be very reasonable.
 
I share a lot in common with steveluck7 -- I played HS playoff baseball at McCoy, went to a jillion games there, and have terrific memories.  I'm a Providence native, and still yearn for the more gritty and more proudly working class Providence of my youth, as opposed to the trendy bistros of South Main Street.  Pawtucket is like that gritty Providence of the 70s, only even moreso.
 
But you know what about the trendy bistros?  They're kind of awesome too. 
 
I loved McCoy when I was 15 years old, but if I had never been there and you gave me the choice of seeing a game at McCoy Stadium or at a comfortable new Providence riverfront park undoubtedly serving not only hot dogs and Del's, but also probably fancy sushi and ceviche or something, I'd prefer the latter.  Pawtucket, God love it, can certainly be described as "dingy" as easily as it can be described as "full of character".
 
Now if ticket prices are going to triple, that's another story...but I'm betting they don't.  There is a cap to what any market will bear in terms of prices for a minor-league product, and while Providence may be trendier than Pawtucket, it sure as hell ain't Beverly Hills. 
 

steveluck7

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May 10, 2007
3,261
Burrillville, RI
Jim Skeffington was on WPRI's Newsmakers this week. You can watch it online here.  Not heavy on details yet but he provides some more information about the plans.
Short porch in RF with HR's landing in the River
Berm in LF
Looking to garner some ownership of parking garages in order to keep parking prices down ($2, $3 according to him)
Trolley's between train station and stadium
Will continue similar community outreach and philanthropy that Mondor's ownership started
preliminary feasibility studies done but he hopes to have more within 2-3 weeks
 

Fred not Lynn

Dick Button Jr.
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Jul 13, 2005
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mabrowndog said:
Don't hold your breath waiting for a new tenant at McCoy once it's vacated.
 
The PawSox will be able to prevent any other affiliated minor league team from moving to Pawtucket or anywhere else in their designated territory. A summer league team (NECBL, FCBL) would be theoretically possible but I'd imagine the overhead and field maintenance costs there would significantly outstrip revenues. College wood bat leagues operate for less than two months and charge at most $6 for admission, with many teams in both those leagues offering discounted family deals (ex. $12 for four).
 
An independent league team also appears to be a long shot as the logistics of the only two regional candidate leagues pose a significant challenge. In the Atlantic League the expansion trend is to the south (Virginia/Carolinas) and west (Texas); right now, Bridgeport is its northernmost and easternmost franchise.
 
Meanwhile the Can-Am League has struggled financially, with several clubs folding in recent years. Since 2007, eight of its teams have gone belly-up including five in New England: North Shore (Lynn MA), Nashua, New Haven, Pittsfield & Worcester. Also, Brockton converted to an FCBL summer league operation. The Can-Am is now down to six teams: three in Canada (Montreal, Ottawa, Quebec City) and three in New Jersey.
 
And I don't think a college team would be a good fit at McCoy. Just too much structure to maintain for the size of crowd you would expect. On the other hand, has there been any mention that a college program (Brown, perhaps?) might share the new ballpark, in the way University of Utah plays at the Salt Lake Bees AAA stadium, or U Mass Lowell plays where the Lowell Spinners play?
 

steveluck7

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May 10, 2007
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Fred not Lynn said:
 
And I don't think a college team would be a good fit at McCoy. Just too much structure to maintain for the size of crowd you would expect. On the other hand, has there been any mention that a college program (Brown, perhaps?) might share the new ballpark, in the way University of Utah plays at the Salt Lake Bees AAA stadium, or U Mass Lowell plays where the Lowell Spinners play?
In the video i linked to above, Skeffington mentions colleges using the stadium for baseball, soccer and lacrosse. He even mentioned football. Made it sound like he sees it more for special events, tournaments, and games rather than as a home stadium
 

LoneWarrior1

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steveluck7 said:
In the video i linked to above, Skeffington mentions colleges using the stadium for baseball, soccer and lacrosse. He even mentioned football. Made it sound like he sees it more for special events, tournaments, and games rather than as a home stadium
Skeffington is referring to a downtown park and envisioning Brown University sports playing at the stadium, I believe.
 

Orel Miraculous

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LoneWarrior1 said:
 
 
Pretty sure that the new ownership has said if the team stays in RI, they will be called the Rhode Island Red Sox.
 
Maybe they have, but has anyone pointed out the possibility of the name Gray Sox to them, because that name is fucking awesome. It needs to happen.