Pawsox being sold to Red Sox Ownership

Brohamer of the Gods

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steveluck7 said:
That land on the other side of Division street is still slated to become a hotel, as far as i know
The hotel site is actually adjacent, right on the riverbank - though  the hotel has morphed into a medical building. Across the river was where the "high speed ferry" to Providence used to leave from.
"High Speed Ferry" because much of the route went through a 5mph no wake zone.
 

smastroyin

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If I were developing that parcel from scratch, and considering some of the current investment, I would probably include re-doing the traffic a bit, taking the building where George's games is now, abandoning Main St. on that little patch that circulates that parcel and putting a garage on it.  (You might be able to keep the street, but at least make it one lane and get rid of all the multiple one-way dumb traffic stupidity from the 50's that still exists there.  I would reduce traffic intended for that strip by closing the on-ramp to 95S, and fixing up some of the other circulator business up by Exchange St.  (potentially making Broadway two way at least up to Exchange).  So have a garage on the George's spot, and a VIP surface lot across School St. from the parcel.  I'd have centerfield look toward Pawtucket City Hall, and have a wharf and riverwalk along the left field side.  You could use this as an opportunity to put in some weird stadium dimensions (not sure what AAA rules are on that).  Maybe not mimic the monster, but having a short porch LF with some kind of terrace, etc. up there overlooking the river with the wharf and riverwalk below.  The riverwalk could extend under the bridge to at least Division St. and you could have another garage on the parcel where the Yarn shop is now.  Build a garage and give the yarn shop a retail location in the bottom.  And then maybe they still put the hotel on the corner of Division and School.  Put a pub there or something as well.  Last, add a pedestrian bridge from the stadium over to Pleasant St. which would connect with that hotel and Murphy's Law which is actually a decent pub.  
 
The bulk of cheaper parking would be at the municipal lot on Roosevelt, and probably the Slater Mill lot (on nights they aren't having events).  Make the municipal lot free with a resident sticker or something, and charge everyone else if you can.  
 

But that's a huge project that is expensive and isn't going to happen.  Just dreaming.

 
 
The Providence waterfront would be tough to do unless you go down into Allens Ave and I am kind of of the opinion that that area should be industrial waterfront.  With some eminent domain you might be able to do the parcel bounded by Dyer and Ship St.  and connect it to the proposed waterfront parks, but there is barely enough room.  
 

smastroyin

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Brohamer of the Gods said:
The hotel site is actually adjacent, right on the riverbank - though  the hotel has morphed into a medical building. Across the river was where the "high speed ferry" to Providence used to leave from.
"High Speed Ferry" because much of the route went through a 5mph no wake zone.
 
The medical building is actually on the parcel that used to be TirePros.  The (IIRC) Procianti proposal for a Hampton Inn was the bigger parcel on the corner of School St. that became the bridge construction storage zone.
 

Brohamer of the Gods

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smastroyin said:
If I were developing that parcel from scratch, and considering some of the current investment, I would probably include re-doing the traffic a bit, taking the building where George's games is now, abandoning Main St. on that little patch that circulates that parcel and putting a garage on it.  (You might be able to keep the street, but at least make it one lane and get rid of all the multiple one-way dumb traffic stupidity from the 50's that still exists there.  I would reduce traffic intended for that strip by closing the on-ramp to 95S, and fixing up some of the other circulator business up by Exchange St.  (potentially making Broadway two way at least up to Exchange).  So have a garage on the George's spot, and a VIP surface lot across School St. from the parcel.  I'd have centerfield look toward Pawtucket City Hall, and have a wharf and riverwalk along the left field side.  You could use this as an opportunity to put in some weird stadium dimensions (not sure what AAA rules are on that).  Maybe not mimic the monster, but having a short porch LF with some kind of terrace, etc. up there overlooking the river with the wharf and riverwalk below.  The riverwalk could extend under the bridge to at least Division St. and you could have another garage on the parcel where the Yarn shop is now.  Build a garage and give the yarn shop a retail location in the bottom.  And then maybe they still put the hotel on the corner of Division and School.  Put a pub there or something as well.  Last, add a pedestrian bridge from the stadium over to Pleasant St. which would connect with that hotel and Murphy's Law which is actually a decent pub.  
 
The bulk of cheaper parking would be at the municipal lot on Roosevelt, and probably the Slater Mill lot (on nights they aren't having events).  Make the municipal lot free with a resident sticker or something, and charge everyone else if you can.  
 

But that's a huge project that is expensive and isn't going to happen.  Just dreaming.

 
 
The Providence waterfront would be tough to do unless you go down into Allens Ave and I am kind of of the opinion that that area should be industrial waterfront.  With some eminent domain you might be able to do the parcel bounded by Dyer and Ship St.  and connect it to the proposed waterfront parks, but there is barely enough room.  
There were also some rumblings of a parking garage going in at the lot on Roosevelt across from City Hall.  But yeah, a lot easier and cheaper to do something at the current stadium. Hell, they went to all of the trouble to drain Hammond Pond in the first place.
 

charlieoscar

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StuckOnYouk said:
...
CT is a big baseball state, they would be supported if they came here IMO
In 1995 CT had three teams in the Eastern League; now I think they only have one and a NYPL team. Is it still the same as it once was?
 

TomRicardo

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charlieoscar said:
In 1995 CT had three teams in the Eastern League; now I think they only have one and a NYPL team. Is it still the same as it once was?
 
You keep hearing the CT can support sports teams but outside of women's basketball there is not a lot of evidence.
 

Trautwein's Degree

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TomRicardo said:
 
You keep hearing the CT can support sports teams but outside of women's basketball there is not a lot of evidence.
We really can't and don't. There simply isn't enough corporate support in and around places like Hartford, New Haven, and Bridgeport.

Support for the basketball teams has even faded. Getting tickets to the UConn men is easy, even for good seats.

UConn football draws so poorly that it should probably be shutdown. The Wolfpack are 26 out of 30 in AHL attendance.

The only thing that really draws here is soccer.

If the Whalers came back there'd be an immediate bounce but once the novelty wore off they'd draw poorly unless they were great.

The Rock Cats draw well. But the prior owners really knew how to market the team.
 

Brohamer of the Gods

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I was curious if there were anything new on this. The Mayor of Pawtucket talked about it on TV the other day, but this doesn't add much we haven't heard already except that Rep. Cicilline is also on the case.

http://wpri.com/2015/01/23/pawtucket-braces-for-rumored-sale-of-pawsox/
 
Ah, one more minor story just popped up, the Pawtucket City council now has a committee working on it. I'm sure the stadium expansion will begin as soon as this snow melts.

http://www.valleybreeze.com/2015-01-28/pawtucket/focus-citys-new-council-committee-keep-pawsox#.VMpdNyzvfhU
 

smastroyin

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They are trying to drum up interest in building up the area around the stadium. The city gets virtually nothing from merely renovating McCoy. We all know the figures on return on investment for public stadiums. What they will probably be willing to do is look at land donation and infrastructure from the city/state, change zoning as appropriate, and try to get some development in the area.

Given the other financial situation of the state, I think the pawsox either stay at McCoy or move out of state. Unless the new owners want to finance a stadium themselves. As much as I like to dream of a river location or something in downtown Providence, it's not going to happen.
 

Brohamer of the Gods

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soxhop411

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PAWTUCKET — The sale of the Pawtucket Red Sox is complete and expected to be announced on Monday, according to a Boston Globe report.

The newspaper, citing unnamed sources, is reporting that the Triple A team is being sold to a group that includes the Boston Red Sox as a minority stakeholder. The team's principal owner is Madelaine Mondor, wife of the late Ben Mondor, who bought the PawSox in 1977 and remained in charge until his death in 2010. A statue of Mondor holding a bat stands outside the park.

The franchise drew more than 500,000 fans last season, an average of almost 7,400 per game, the ninth highest in the 14-team International League. It led the league in attendance in 2006, drawing 9,200 fans per game that season.

McCoy Stadium was renovated with the help of Rhode Island economic development bonds. Under the arrangement, the state leases the park from Pawtucket, then subleases it to the PawSox.

The announcement on Monday is expected to clarify the members of the new ownership group as well as the team’s future at McCoy Stadium.
http://m.providencejournal.com/article/20150222/NEWS/150229761
 

OBPercent1

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This will be interesting on how this all shakes out when Ben died he left the Pawsox in a trust with this widow in charge of it and had Mike and Lou continue with business as usual. Basically  Mike T, Lou S , and Ben built the " Pawsox" name, and Ben treated the two of him like the children he never had. Word has it they were blindsided by the sale I am sure they will be taken care of financially but it was a huge gut punch for both of them.
 

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FWIW - Scott MacKay (political reporter for WRNI Rhode Island Public Radio) is saying on his Facebook page that the team will reportedly leave Pawtucket. He also alludes to reports that a new stadium is to be built in Providence. It is unclear from his offhand comments how solid this information is or if he's just throwing out rumors (or indeed simply speculating). I look forward to tomorrow's announcement.
 

vadertime

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4 owners confirmed. 

 
A quartet of Rhode Islanders with strong ties to the state’s business community will be part of the new ownership group of the Pawtucket Red Sox, The Times and The Call has learned.
The locally based owners, who according to the Boston Globe will include the Boston Red Sox as a minority shareholder, include Tom Ryan, former president and chief executive officer of CVS/Caremark Corporation; Terry Murray, former Fleet Blank CEO; James Skeffington, a Providence-based attorney; and Ray Mancini, a liquor distributor.
 
 
http://pawtuckettimes.com/node/11442
 
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What's the point of moving a team 3 miles, when there's no new stadium?
 
Whatever "economic stimulus" will occur in Providence will cannibalize from other avenues.
The parking/traffic situation is decent in Pawtucket, Providence should be worse.  Even if it's promoted like he**, is a Providence stadium going to draw 10k+ fans in year 2+, to make this worth it? I doubt it.
 
Is there some study that says the $ from eg. Bristol and Newport is more likely to visit Providence if it had a ballpark, as opposed to 5 more minutes up the road? 
 
Is Raimondo actively involved, and if so, why would she think this is good overall for the state?  Seems like more harm to Pawtucket than any help to Providence.
 

Brohamer of the Gods

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jimbobim said:
That's a fair amount of local money and connections and I wonder if the legislature would green light bonds. New governor could attempt to put her mark on that land , but this will be the death knell for that section of Pawtucket I fear. 
Since Hasbro pulled out, there hasn't been much of a knell for that part of Pawtucket anyway. They could let Hammond Pond reclaim McCoy, a water feature is always a nice touch.
 

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Brohamer of the Gods said:
Since Hasbro pulled out, there hasn't been much of a knell for that part of Pawtucket anyway. They could let Hammond Pond reclaim McCoy, a water feature is always a nice touch.
 
 
Right, McCoy is pretty much an island, I don't think anyone spends a dime in Pawtucket once they leave the stadium.
 
City of Pawtucket now tries to attract another team, I would think. 
 

smastroyin

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I doubt they'll try. Outside of direct tax revenue, there is no benefit to Pawtucket other than the name.

Also, there is no parcel big enough for a stadium in the 195 land. So they will have to do some eminent domain bullshit too. And given dipshit Tom Ryan, probably knocking down the surrounding 4 acres of buildings for surface parking,
 
Brohamer of the Gods said:
Terry Murry is from Woonsocket, CVS is headquartered in Woonsocket - I think we can all see where this is going.
If the concern is that Pawtucket is an island with no real resources around it, Woonsocket wouldn't be an improvement, and is additionally much more difficult to get to from the highway.  Additionally, unless someone has a source to the Providence waterfront rumor that I am unfamiliar with, the idea of developing the Providence waterfront as anything other than industry has been rather publicly shot down -- see the whole scrap metal plant saga and the mayor's office/city council responses to the Conley wharf complaints (specifically in the Providence Business News).  They may try and move to Providence but I highly doubt it's the waterfront.
To respond to above, RI is in my opinion still heavily split between Yankees/Red Sox (I've checked but can't find a definitive source).  Most traditionally Italian communities are still very heavily Yankees territory -- where I live in Cranston, Johnston, North Providence and Providence North End.  I can envision a scenario where it costs the Red Sox fans, maybe not switching allegiances but just not caring anywhere near as much.  My 7 and 4 year old kids are Red Sox / Pawsox fans because we go to games at McCoy, but I'm not dropping $200 for a family of 4 to go to Fenway when my youngest won't make it through the game.  That will mean that he just won't care as much about baseball, because we go to P-Bruins and Revolution games.  Will he grow up a Sox fan because of me?  Probably, but with no Pawsox games he probably won't care as much about the sport in general, or buy as many shirts, or go to as many Fenway games, etc.
 

The Gray Eagle

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That sucks that the Pawsox will be no more. Maybe the new location will be better, who knows, but a longtime tradition is going to be gone. 
 
I hope at least they call the team the Rhode Island Red Sox, or RISox for short. Could have a Rhode Island Red chicken for a mascot, I suppose.
 
They could call them the Providence Grays, which would be a nice historical reference to Old Hoss Radbourn and the team that won the first "World Series" but I would expect them to keep the Sox name.
 

smastroyin

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I don't think they are tallking about along Allens Ave.  There is no piece of land large enough anyway, without moving Allens and the train tracks.  You might fit something next to Save the Bay down by Field's point but last I looked JWU was developing that parcel for their own sports facility.  Also it would be a bad place for a stadium in terms of access, public transportation, and parking unless you could lease the parking from JWU as well.  And of course there is no room for any other businesses so no econ development money, and the brownfield money is already gone IIRC.  On the other hand, that would be a beautiful location with the southerly bay view.
 
The rumor mill is talking about 195 land, think between Eddy St. and the river.  However, as I already mentioned none of these parcels are sizable enough for a "destination" stadium (nevermind parking) so they would need some kind of larger deal in place and also integrate with the waterfront park that was already bonded so yet another deal.
 

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Silver Spring golf club and that area, perhaps?  I know there's an Exxon-Mobil property there, but it looks to my untrained eye like there might be enough space for a ballpark with river views and parking.

But maybe not for additional development
 

mabrowndog

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Darnell's Son said:
 
A few folks here had cited the new lease the team signed for McCoy. Yeah, about that...
 
The PawSox signed a new lease just about a year ago that was supposed to keep the team in McCoy through 2021, with a five-year extension after that. But that lease is with the state, not the city, Grebien said, so Pawtucket appears to have few legal options if it wanted to fight to keep the team in the city.

And he pointed out the state may have its own interests to protect, such as preventing the new owners from moving the team out of state. He said said his administration has been in touch with Governor Raimondo’s office as well as with the state legislative leadership on the situation.

Even if the city could try to sue, Grebien said he thought that in the long run that strategy would be counterproductive. Even if the city won, the bitterness over such a fight would mean that once the team could leave, it would.
 
I'll give Grebien credit for trying to say all the right things, but this...
 
 
Grebien said he believed McCoy, with improvements, could be the kind of venue the new owners want, and that the city’s efforts would be best used at showing them that they are underestimating the location.
 
...is utterly preposterous.
 

smastroyin

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He should just tell the truth, that the PawSox actually contribute next to nothing developmentally to the area or to the town.
 
I am disappointed by this all, because the way it is all announced tells me there is some shitty public boondoggle bullshit going on, and that kind of shit makes me less of a sports fan.
 

mabrowndog

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Re-tweeted scuttlebutt on Twitter says the stadium will be near Brown U.
 
No sense in posting the tweets here because I have no idea who these people are.
 

smastroyin

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The parcel I listed in the other thread is next door to Brown's biomedical campus.  Just in case people are confused thinking those tweets would mean college hill.  There is no place in college hill for a stadium and traffic.
 
edit:  also, remember when google maps made it very easy to create your own maps.  Why the fuck did google have to go the Apple route and make everything a locked down piece of shit for idiots.  BUT IT'S PRETTIER.
 

Lose Remerswaal

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Probably.
 
Although it's been underpriced (IMHO) the past many years.  Good seats for AAA ball are certainly worth $20.  If they keep it there, and have parking at $10 or under, we'll still go at least as often.  And if there's dining in the area we'll frequent that.  Although I will very much miss 
 
 

mabrowndog

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smastroyin said:
The parcel I listed in the other thread is next door to Brown's biomedical campus.  Just in case people are confused thinking those tweets would mean college hill.  There is no place in college hill for a stadium and traffic.
 
edit:  also, remember when google maps made it very easy to create your own maps.  Why the fuck did google have to go the Apple route and make everything a locked down piece of shit for idiots.  BUT IT'S PRETTIER.
 
Not sure where the "other thread" is.
 
Is there anything going on with the parcel between Dyer and Ship streets? Near where the old I-195 split was?
 

smastroyin

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mabrowndog said:
 
Not sure where the "other thread" is.
 
Is there anything going on with the parcel between Dyer and Ship streets? Near where the old I-195 split was?
That's the one that makes the most sense to me.

There's a thread on the main board. I'll merge discussion when I'm next at a computer.
 

LoneWarrior1

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Brown Medical School is down by the old 195 split and it is one of several locations under consideration for the stadium. What was interesting about this ProJo is that the sale included Michael Tamburro and Lou Schwechheimer as owners of the team. It was always discussed around McCoy, but this is the first time it was confirmed. I'm glad they will both be staying on for the transition and beyond.
 

Orange Julia

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I'd like them to be the Providence Gray Sox, that would be kind of cool, especially since the mascot of the PawSox (Paws) Norton the Polar Bear left PVD 10 years ago and was never replaced at the zoo (because they accidentally killed Trixie, his companion polar bear after raising a ton of $ to redo their habitat.)
 

Brohamer of the Gods

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First time I have seen a date -

“I am excited that a new stadium will be built in Providence for the Pawtucket Red Sox to relocate in the spring of 2017,” Mattiello said in a statement. “I will work collaboratively with the new owners of the team to help build an economic engine for our state and the capital city. This riverfront stadium will serve as a catalyst for an area that holds great potential for development and it will boost the morale of our citizens.”

http://wpri.com/2015/02/23/sources-new-paw-sox-owners-want-to-leave-pawtucket-for-providence/
 

8slim

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This is disappointing news to me, if only due to nostalgia.  I grew up in SE Mass and went to tons of games at McCoy with my father.  Loved walking up those spiral ramps with the murals of the all-time PawSox on them.  Went to the July 4th fireworks game every year, when fireworks at a minor league ballpark was a unique experience.  Hell somewhere I still have a souvenier 33-inning game cup.  But I understand the appeal of building new stadiums in more-populated cities.  New Britain to Hartford, Pawtucket to Providence.  
 
Troy O'Lovely said:
If the concern is that Pawtucket is an island with no real resources around it, Woonsocket wouldn't be an improvement, and is additionally much more difficult to get to from the highway.  Additionally, unless someone has a source to the Providence waterfront rumor that I am unfamiliar with, the idea of developing the Providence waterfront as anything other than industry has been rather publicly shot down -- see the whole scrap metal plant saga and the mayor's office/city council responses to the Conley wharf complaints (specifically in the Providence Business News).  They may try and move to Providence but I highly doubt it's the waterfront.
To respond to above, RI is in my opinion still heavily split between Yankees/Red Sox (I've checked but can't find a definitive source).  Most traditionally Italian communities are still very heavily Yankees territory -- where I live in Cranston, Johnston, North Providence and Providence North End.  I can envision a scenario where it costs the Red Sox fans, maybe not switching allegiances but just not caring anywhere near as much.  My 7 and 4 year old kids are Red Sox / Pawsox fans because we go to games at McCoy, but I'm not dropping $200 for a family of 4 to go to Fenway when my youngest won't make it through the game.  That will mean that he just won't care as much about baseball, because we go to P-Bruins and Revolution games.  Will he grow up a Sox fan because of me?  Probably, but with no Pawsox games he probably won't care as much about the sport in general, or buy as many shirts, or go to as many Fenway games, etc.
 
That may be your opinion, but it's not really true.  There are other, probably more scientific sources, but check out this map of MLB fandom by Facebook likes, per the NYT:
 
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/04/24/upshot/facebook-baseball-map.html
 
Zoom in on Rhode Island.  Most of the state is roughly 70% Sox fans/20% Yankees fans.  It's not as overwhelmingly pro-Sox as Mass, obviously, but it's not like CT either, which is basically 50/50 Sox/Yankees.
 

Brohamer of the Gods

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Providence City Council president confirms they are looking in old 195 space.

"They're talking about it being by Brown's extended education facility, by Fogarty courthouse -- so where the South Street landing is, just north of that," said Aponte.  
"There have been no official announcements made just yet, there will still need to be due diligence needed on the site. But they are very interested in being in Providence.”

The other interesting thing from this piece (from him, not team officials)  "I said to Mr. Skeffington, if Pawtucket could pull it out, would they be interested, but he said basically if it's not Providence, it would be a broader catch area."
 
http://www.golocalprov.com/news/new-city-council-president-aponte-excited-at-prospect-of-pawsox-coming-to-p
 

Zomp

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I just can't see there being enough space in the old 195 space.  Its not like Providence has a light rail or anything besides busses for public transportation, so a big parking lot will be needed.
 

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Judging by my facebook feed, you'd think the Pawsox were the Brooklyn Dodgers.  I grew up in Pawtucket, played my HS baseball games in the stadium and have been to a hundred games in my life and can't muster and hard feelings towards this proposal.
How anyone can think the fan experience at a waterfront park in Providence won't be 1000% better, is beyond me