Pats select Western Kentucky QB Bailey Zappe at 137

Brand Name

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Moving the Line
Tom Brady: 2000, 6-199
Rohan Davey: 2002, 4-117

Hardly a move without precedent.

QB8 for me, had him as a mid-5th here. Great at escaping pressure, big football brain, great vision side to side up and down the field. Has been called an on-field coach by the Hilltopper staff. Don’t love how much he was in a basic spread offense at WKU that didn’t ask a whole lot of his skills to be (potentially?) be used, can be a bit too happy pulling the trigger before he reads coverage, which impacts his accuracy. Like what we have in Mac, nothing amazing about his arm or legs. Just a fundamentally solid passer with a good head. I think he’s the Hoyer equal and replacement, because he knows the game so well.
 

brendan f

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Hardly a move without precedent.
Exactly. And Zappe fits our system well. This is another example were punditry ruled the narrative. If we had taken the critics' darling, Sam Howell, this pick would have been lauded. The problem of course is that Howell basically just bombed the ball downfield and was an awful fit for the Patriots, whereas Zappe was a rhythm passer who spread the ball to all parts of the field. The question with Zappe is how he handles pressure, but any QB is going to have questions.
 

Cotillion

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Exactly. And Zappe fits our system well. This is another example were punditry ruled the narrative. If we had taken the critics' darling, Sam Howell, this pick would have been lauded. The problem of course is that Howell basically just bombed the ball downfield and was an awful fit for the Patriots, whereas Zappe was a rhythm passer who spread the ball to all parts of the field. The question with Zappe is how he handles pressure, but any QB is going to have questions.
But the consensus big board!!!! It's a consensus!!!!
 

SMU_Sox

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First off: great post @Brand Name :)

Exactly. And Zappe fits our system well. This is another example were punditry ruled the narrative. If we had taken the critics' darling, Sam Howell, this pick would have been lauded. The problem of course is that Howell basically just bombed the ball downfield and was an awful fit for the Patriots, whereas Zappe was a rhythm passer who spread the ball to all parts of the field. The question with Zappe is how he handles pressure, but any QB is going to have questions.
Can we discuss Howell for a second?

51299

Howell ended up going at 144. Willis went at 86. The consensus was wrong this year across the board but I never understood the love for Howell. What exactly did they see in him? Same for Willis. He couldn't process things and made bad decisions in an oversimplified offense. What makes you think he can do better in the NFL? You could say similar things about Howell. I didn't spend much time evaluating the QBs this year but I saw Howell, Willis, and Zappe in the exact same tier of 6.0-6.49:

Flash Starter Tools. Quality Role player and/or Good ST. Emergency Starter.


I didn't write out a report on any of the QBs. I did them last and didn't have time. BUT SOSH guest Matt Waldman did evaluate him.

Please, if you haven't already, strongly consider buying his work, the Rookie Scouting Portfolio. Matt is an OG draft evaluator and one of the best in the business. He's also one of the kindest individuals in the space.

Here is what Matt had to say about Zappe. Now because he has said this on his pod and in youtubes I am not going to take anything from behind the RSP paywall. He liked Zappe's platform accuracy, decision making, ability to sense pressure and not overreact (cough Kenny Pickett cough), and scrambling. He also thought he could be a starter!

Waldman had Zappe as his QB5 this year. Of the guys discussed as starters he only had Kenny Pickett and Matt Corral above Zappe.
 

SMU_Sox

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You have Treylon Burks 62nd????

Reasoning?
I just posted that picture to show Howell was a darling in the consensus rankings but who I didn’t get at all. I cut the list off at Howell. I have no issue with them taking Zappe over Howell and honestly I am glad they did. I didn't think Howell was a good fit here either!

I think we're getting off-topic discussing Burks in this thread so I am going to answer you but spoiler it. If you want to go over him we can take it to DM.

If you listened to a common question asked to many of the national draft media people on “Which top prospects landing spot matters the most non-QB?” the most common answer was Burks. Burks could end up being great but he also has bust potential written all over him. He needed to go to a team who used a lot of play action or utilized as a limited route runner for RAC opportunities. He’s not a good route runner and he doesn’t have good COD. He struggles to create any separation. His breaks are garbage. He reminds me a lot of Harry coming out but bigger and a little slower. I didn’t like Harry who was 32nd on consensus and I don’t like Burks. Burks is also such a bad drifter in his routes like… Harry. He beat press this year but not with technique really... it's the weirdest thing to say but he like accidentally beat press sometimes. Also he played almost exclusively in the slot or moved around and not outside. I had a 6.99 on him which is a mid to late second round grade. Also, I’m not the only one to dislike him. Matt Waldman, for example, did not like him much. I wish I could post what he wrote about him and why he feels he is very scheme dependent. He's a lot better of a writer than I am. Regardless though he was my WR9 and Waldman's WR13. The good news for Burks is Tennessee is a good fit for him, I think.

Did you happen to watch him and have a different take on him?
 

4 6 3 DP

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Sharps take also ignores Washington taking cousins in the same draft as rg3. Actually makes his point in some way..
 

Jed Zeppelin

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JM3

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When even the guy you draft thinks he's a reach...lol

Hope it works out great.
 

Marciano490

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Damn dude, let some light into your life. That video was pure joy. Even my jaded ass teared up a little bit.
 

JM3

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Damn dude, let some light into your life. That video was pure joy. Even my jaded ass teared up a little bit.
I put "lol". Light, laughter & joy are clearly prevalent in my life :)

Was just playing along with the media narrative that most of our draft picks are reaches, & I do sincerely wish the best for him & the Patriots as it relates to him & was not being sarcastic.
 

Marciano490

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I put "lol". Light, laughter & joy are clearly prevalent in my life :)

Was just playing along with the media narrative that most of our draft picks are reaches, & I do sincerely wish the best for him & the Patriots as it relates to him & was not being sarcastic.
My bad. Hugs and handshakes. Isn’t Klutch LeBron’s agency? Nice to see it’s not thoroughly evil.
 

JimD

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Seems like an appropriate time to bump this thread.

From Mike Sando's column in The Athletic this morning:

I knew nothing about Zappe last season until my “Football GM” co-host and 35-year NFL evaluator Randy Mueller revealed in April that Zappe was his No. 2 quarterback in the 2022 draft, behind Kenny Pickett. Zappe was the fifth quarterback selected, and he played Sunday only because the Patriots, already without starter Mac Jones, lost Hoyer as well.

Zappe is an interesting prospect. Could he become more than a backup? Here’s Mueller’s evaluation from April:

“The best thing he does is processes information. He could manipulate coverages in the secondary and throw people open. That is a really hard thing for college kids to do. He was able to do this from the pocket and from the gun. I’m not saying this guy is Drew Brees at all, but stylistically, his throwing motion, his ability to get it out quickly, gave me a lot of similarities to where Drew was and how he does business.

“I think he has a really fundamentally sound delivery, and I loved his anticipation. It’s clear he has high football IQ. I thought his arm is very good. He could make the throws at all levels. I think he is going to be able to adjust in an NFL offense quickly because of that.

“He operates like a bigger man with comfort in the pocket. He will hang in there vs. pressure, he doesn’t look to run, he is nimble enough that he can avoid defenders in the pocket, but he lacks that ideal size that some quarterbacks can’t overcome because it affects their vision. I didn’t see vision being a problem with this guy.

“I loved his confidence, his decision making was really good, and the fact that he has a hair trigger to get it out quickly is a big advantage. … He is athletic enough to escape, he can throw on the run moving either way outside the pocket. What kept jumping out at me on tape were those second- and third-type decision-making things that sometimes you don’t see guys that have been in the league 2-3 years even make.”
So, what do we have here?
 

Shelterdog

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Seems like an appropriate time to bump this thread.

So, what do we have here?
We've got the next Chase Daniels! Which is a pretty nice thing to have on a rookie deal given how absurdly expensive even bad backup QBs are.
 

CaptainLaddie

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It's funny, I was texting with my friend yesterday before the game (he's a big Cowboys fan) and asked me how I felt about starting Hoyer. I told him I'd rather see Zappe just so we could see what we had there -- Hoyer's pretty much a very well known commodity.

Kid played well, all things considered. His college numbers are obviously off the charts, and even if it was Western Kentucky and CUSA, it wasn't like he was throwing to Ohio State's WR crew. There's *something* there, just a matter of what it is.
 

Justthetippett

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I’m all for being optimistic about this guy based on his football acumen and decision-making, but he really seems to be lollipopping his throws. I get the Brees dreamcasting, but their arm strength seems nowhere close.
 

Gash Prex

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I thought he was fine (goodish?..) under the circumstances and very poised. I also think comparing Mac's debut versus Miami tells you how far Mac was ahead of Zappe at this time last year.

Zappe could be a very useful piece. I actually thought he looked like Jimmy G a couple of times (the good and the bad).
 

Cellar-Door

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He has Case Keenum vibes... same size, both put up absurd numbers in college at smaller schools, both lack arm strength.
 

bakahump

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yea looked like me throwing a pro ball. Sometimes they look ok.....and they lolipop over 20 yards. But also some ducks and some that end up at receivers feet.

He seems like Mac 1.1 or .9

Thats not a terrible thing. But it doesnt give me a "Wealth of Starters capable of winning a game by themselves" vibe either.
 

DJnVa

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I’m all for being optimistic about this guy based on his football acumen and decision-making, but he really seems to be lollipopping his throws. I get the Brees dreamcasting, but their arm strength seems nowhere close.
I get it, but that might have been the throw needed to complete the pass. Not every throw is going to be a laser into a tight window. In fact, I'm sure he's still at the point where he's not going to go for tight window throws so we're seeing him take something off to complete the pass.

There's a few throws here (1:20, 1:30 marks) that have more zip on them

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uUJhbf5Edo
 

radsoxfan

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I saw a mix of some good and bad, no complaints.

Best thing about Zappe is it makes Mac look like he has a cannon.
 

Over Guapo Grande

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I was glad that the majority of his misses were low. The worst thing that happens there is an incomplete pass. Miss high, and you are looking at the possible INT.
 

rodderick

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I saw a mix of some good and bad, no complaints.

Best thing about Zappe is it makes Mac look like he has a cannon.
I think he just didn't really try to fire anything in a tight window against Green Bay. A whole lot of floated completions to wide open receivers to just make sure the ball gets caught. Not really a game we can judge his arm by, in my view.
 

wilked

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I think he just didn't really try to fire anything in a tight window against Green Bay. A whole lot of floated completions to wide open receivers to just make sure the ball gets caught. Not really a game we can judge his arm by, in my view.
This is what I saw also
 

Phil Plantier

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I have to disagree. I thought he gave off "strike replacement QB" vibes. He was only asked to do something that resembled normal QB play 3 times, and the results were 2 sacks and a near INT.

Maybe he becomes something eventually, but I'd rather see Hoyer run a normal offense.
 

YTF

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Not sure what if anything we can take away from his time on the field on Sunday. How many reps has this guy gotten as a 3rd string rookie QB with the core starters? I'm guessing more than normal last week, but Hoyer still needed the majority of that practice time to ready himself for a start. Bill's a big "trust" guy. Their was little expectation of that kid hitting the field on Sunday and no time for him to earn any sort of trust. He was operating with a very limited playbook and getting his first, in season look at the speed that the pro game is played at. Zappe at best was asked to manage the game while limiting the Green Bay defenses chances to exploit the situation. He'll get more reps this week and they'll expand the playbook a bit for him, but the training wheels aren't coming if he get's the nod against Detroit.
 

SMU_Sox

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J.T. O'Sullivan reviews Zappe.

View: https://twitter.com/theqbschool/status/1577833519748882433?s=20&t=h90nag7-esJoDB_q4Tj5Xw


View: https://twitter.com/theqbschool/status/1577909016742723584?s=20&t=h90nag7-esJoDB_q4Tj5Xw


View: https://twitter.com/theqbschool/status/1577878816965332994?s=20&t=h90nag7-esJoDB_q4Tj5Xw


View: https://twitter.com/theqbschool/status/1577863719673106433?s=20&t=h90nag7-esJoDB_q4Tj5Xw


View: https://twitter.com/theqbschool/status/1577848618194812928?s=20&t=h90nag7-esJoDB_q4Tj5Xw


https://twitter.com/theqbschool/status/1577833519748882433?s=20&t=h90nag7-esJoDB_q4Tj5Xw

https://twitter.com/theqbschool/status/1577818672000774144?s=20&t=h90nag7-esJoDB_q4Tj5Xw


J.T. is pretty critical because even though he is a 4th round rookie that doesn't mean his play action fakes should be sloppy or he should skip a ball in for a comeback or that he needs to bail too early from the pocket or be a statue, etc. It will be nice to see him start a game vs come in cold off the bench. Detroit has the absolute worst defense in the league so hopefully he looks better than he did last week.
 

j44thor

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I think JT goes overboard blaming him for the strip sack. The RT gets beat on the edge and the LT gets tripped up on the RB so he couldn't roll out to the right and he couldn't step up into the oncoming defender. His best play there would have been a throwaway but to expect a 4th rd rookie to process a throwaway in under 3 secs seems a little much. Any throwaway is also at risk of an INT given the coverage and he is clearly in the pocket so doesn't want to take an Int grounding. That play is way more on terrible line play + bad luck than anything Zappe did.
 

Cellar-Door

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I think it's maybe a little harsh, but I see the point, especially if you just grade it as a QB without giving credits/curve for experience.

1. He never sees/senses the rush and it isn't on his blindside.
2. He can step straight up in the pocket and inside the rush
3. You're in easy FG range with a minute left in the half, the #1 directive has to be "don't take the sack.
4. he never even went through his reads, he locked on Parker.

I think a more experienced QB steps/shuffles up and tries to either make the throw to Henry or turf it in front of Henry.

Wynn obviously was terrible and probably gets the larger plurality of the blame, but Zappe made a lot of key mistakes there.
 

SMU_Sox

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With the caveats that: we’re comparing a performance coming off the bench cold vs a good passing defense with GB and getting a week of installs in and going up against a bottom third passing defense and quite possible the overall worst defense in the league I think you saw two things in this game that are very encouraging. 1) pocket presence went from being pretty dreadful to poised over night. 2) he wasn’t hesitating with his reads and quick releases. You saw him getting the ball out on time. Being hesitant and being off timing and rhythm makes sense coming in cold. Pocket shakiness is more concerning because you want a backup even coming in cold to have good pocket presence. I was worried about Zappe after last week. I probably overreacted. I’m sorry.