Pats QB Options

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Harry Hooper

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What is this trying to install on my computer?
Yeah, I wasn't going to click on that link.

Schefter, can Wentz be in a blockbuster trade at this point, given how much his star has dimmed and his remaining contract?
 

Seels

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Man BBTL might be real empty with all the people allegedly skipping the season if Cam is back.





It won't really be of course they are all full of shit. Does really highlight how the spoiled and soft the Brady/Belichick Era made the fanbase though that 1 year of living like the rest of the league has people threatening to quit, not even a particularly Bad year by rest of the league standards.
I had no problems missing my first Red Sox season since the early 90s with the idiotic Betts trade. I'll have no issues doing the same if the Patriots are also not planning on being competitive.
 

tims4wins

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I barely watched this year, but still followed the team plenty closely. A decent amount of that was due to Cam. I just wasn’t interested.

And yes I admit to being completely spoiled. But the NFL has also gradually turned me off over the last 10-15 years. And in general I don’t care as much about sports as I used to. Covid has had an impact on that. Live sports have not been the same these past 11 months. Crowd is a huge part of the experience for me so no crowds reduce my interest.
 

SoxinSeattle

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I had no problems missing my first Red Sox season since the early 90s with the idiotic Betts trade. I'll have no issues doing the same if the Patriots are also not planning on being competitive.
I am a fan of sports. Specifically New England sports. I can disagree with the franchises decisions but who loses if I stop watching? Little old me. Something about cutting your nose off your face.
 

Beomoose

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2 firsts seems sky-high to me, but I'm not a fan of Wentz. Seems like a lot of chips to put on Pederson being a shit coach and Wentz being willing to go all-in on the Patriots Way.

The "I'm not gonna watch" discussion might be best for a new thread of its own.
 

Seels

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I am a fan of sports. Specifically New England sports. I can disagree with the franchises decisions but who loses if I stop watching? Little old me. Something about cutting your nose off your face.
I lose by investing time to a team whose goal is neither winning this near or meaningfully making the team more likely to win next year. This was my issue with signing Cam in the first place. Signing him again is that, except with the hindsight of we already know what we have in him. The team might contend or not with a rookie quarterback. But they definitely are not with Cam, and he doesn't even lose games in a particularly interesting fashion.
 

OurF'ingCity

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This would be one of my concerns with Wentz

Lowest % of accurate passes thrown from a clean pocket over the past three seasons (2018-20), per @PFF's ball location charting:

30. Mitch Trubisky (59%)
31. Jameis Winston (59%)
32. Lamar Jackson (58%)
33. Cam Newton (58%)

34. Carson Wentz (57%)

View: https://twitter.com/PFF_AustinGayle/status/1358150215207944195?s=19
Exactly. Wentz is a great example of someone who feels like an upgrade over Cam but really isn’t. There is no reason to give up assets to get him.
 

RG33

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2 firsts seems sky-high to me, but I'm not a fan of Wentz. Seems like a lot of chips to put on Pederson being a shit coach and Wentz being willing to go all-in on the Patriots Way.
There is no way in hell the Eagles are getting two 1sts for Wentz. The media is failing to understand that the Rams got two firsts for Stafford AND the Lions taking Goff’s contract off their hands.

I would frankly be surprised if the Eaglesgot a 1st for him. It feels more like a 2nd and a 4th kind of deal to me.
 

Cellar-Door

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There is no way in hell the Eagles are getting two 1sts for Wentz. The media is failing to understand that the Rams got two firsts for Stafford AND the Lions taking Goff’s contract off their hands.

I would frankly be surprised if the Eaglesgot a 1st for him. It feels more like a 2nd and a 4th kind of deal to me.
The media isn't failing to understand anything, they are reporting what the Eagles asked for. Perhaps the Eagles are failing to understand the Goff/Stafford deal.
 

Oppo

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I lose by investing time to a team whose goal is neither winning this near or meaningfully making the team more likely to win next year. This was my issue with signing Cam in the first place. Signing him again is that, except with the hindsight of we already know what we have in him. The team might contend or not with a rookie quarterback. But they definitely are not with Cam, and he doesn't even lose games in a particularly interesting fashion.
Quick! Get Kraft on the phone to get BB replaced with Seels. Get over yourself. After the last 20 years, you’re gonna whine about how the team is run and managed? You sound like the people that threaten to leave the country if “X” is elected president. Go jump on another bandwagon.
 

Seels

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Quick! Get Kraft on the phone to get BB replaced with Seels. Get over yourself. After the last 20 years, you’re gonna whine about how the team is run and managed? You sound like the people that threaten to leave the country if “X” is elected president. Go jump on another bandwagon.
Not remotely what I'm saying, and this entire view of we can't criticize the team is ridiculous. I've been a vocal critic of Newton for 7-8 years. He's absolutely the last player I wanted on this team, especially after his shoulder was shot. Prior success doesn't mean that I should have to root for a player that doesn't make the team better today or tomorrow.
 

Oppo

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Not remotely what I'm saying, and this entire view of we can't criticize the team is ridiculous. I've been a vocal critic of Newton for 7-8 years. He's absolutely the last player I wanted on this team, especially after his shoulder was shot. Prior success doesn't mean that I should have to root for a player that doesn't make the team better today or tomorrow.
You’re not just criticizing but saying if the team doesn’t do what you want, you’re out. You said you stopped watching the Sox because they traded Betts even though they were going to lose him anyway after a season in which their pitching was absolutely decimated. Then you talk about losing by investing any time into a team not committed to winning or improving (Pats 2020 and potentially 2021). Like BB doesn’t want to put the best team out there possible? It’s absolutely bandwagon material.
 

BunnzMcGinty

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Man BBTL might be real empty with all the people allegedly skipping the season if Cam is back.


It won't really be of course they are all full of shit. Does really highlight how the spoiled and soft the Brady/Belichick Era made the fanbase though that 1 year of living like the rest of the league has people threatening to quit, not even a particularly Bad year by rest of the league standards.
I haven’t missed a regular season or playoff game since I got sober 12 years ago, but I didn’t bother watching the last three games this season. It’s just boring, uninspired football. I’ll never not be a Patriots fan but I already know what this offense looks like with Cam behind center, and it’s just not worth my time.
 

tims4wins

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I haven’t missed a regular season or playoff game since I got sober 12 years ago, but I didn’t bother watching the last three games this season. It’s just boring, uninspired football. I’ll never not be a Patriots fan but I already know what this offense looks like with Cam behind center, and it’s just not worth my time.
Exactly. It’s boring. I still followed the team completely this year. But I didn’t watch more than 20% of their plays, maybe less.
 

Seels

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You’re not just criticizing but saying if the team doesn’t do what you want, you’re out. You said you stopped watching the Sox because they traded Betts even though they were going to lose him anyway after a season in which their pitching was absolutely decimated. Then you talk about losing by investing any time into a team not committed to winning or improving (Pats 2020 and potentially 2021). Like BB doesn’t want to put the best team out there possible? It’s absolutely bandwagon material.
I've been watching both teams for 30 years. I'm not a bandwagoner. I've probably missed 100 games total in that time span, most of which were last year. But, with both teams, there really wasn't a point in time they were not competitive from before the season started. That changed in 2020 for the Sox, which was always my biggest issue with the Betts trade, and I would view bringing Newton back as a sign that the goal isn't being short term competitive. If you think that makes me a bandwagon fan, I don't really know what to tell you.

I have confidence BB will address the position with a player who can do something other than throw at his half back's feet on screens.
 

Jungleland

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After 5 months of near nonstop NFL inundation, I enjoy a totally free Sunday as much as anyone. That said, not watching after elimination is one thing, but being out on the season before it starts if things look the slightest bit grim is why dynasty fanbases get made fun of. (Note this is not directed at anyone in particular, just the general sentiment.) I do not want to see Cam Newton start at QB for this team in 2021, but even if he is back I have a really hard time imagining the season having fewer building blocks to watch than this past season. Short of a Curtis Painter-esque suck for Luck, I can't imagine tuning in for fewer than 14 or 15 games, the missed two being much more likely to be life in the way than tuning out intentionally.
 

RG33

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The media isn't failing to understand anything, they are reporting what the Eagles asked for. Perhaps the Eagles are failing to understand the Goff/Stafford deal.
I disagree.

Here are the trade analysis articles from
CBS, Yahoo, ESPN, and The Ringer. The only one that even mentions Goff’s contract coming back as a negative is the ESPN article — and they don’t acknowledge that it was the reason for including two 1st round picks. All of the articles talk about the great return — two 1st rounders AND a starting QB! The Ringer article even mentions that none of the other offers were reported to include two first rounders.

That feels like a pretty good sampleof the media not really hitting the nail on the head about why the Rams had to give up two 1st round picks for Stafford.

We can disagree on that though.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/why-the-matthew-stafford-jared-goff-trade-is-a-win-win-for-both-teams/
https://www.google.com/amp/s/sports.yahoo.com/amphtml/instant-analysis-rams-trading-jared-035933706.html
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.espn.com/blog/detroit-lions/post/_/id/37524/in-his-first-big-move-as-gm-lions-brad-holmes-finds-a-blockbuster-in-matthew-stafford-trade?platform=amp
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theringer.com/platform/amp/nfl/2021/2/2/22261730/matthew-stafford-jared-goff-ripple-effects
 

Cellar-Door

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I disagree.

Here are the trade analysis articles from
CBS, Yahoo, ESPN, and The Ringer. The only one that even mentions Goff’s contract coming back as a negative is the ESPN article — and they don’t acknowledge that it was the reason for including two 1st round picks. All of the articles talk about the great return — two 1st rounders AND a starting QB! The Ringer article even mentions that none of the other offers were reported to include two first rounders.

That feels like a pretty good sampleof the media not really hitting the nail on the head about why the Rams had to give up two 1st round picks for Stafford.

We can disagree on that though.
That tells me that the feeling around the league is that Detroit doesn't see Goff as a negative. Which is possible, once you take the bonuses out it's not a terrible deal for DET, I don't know that it's an asset, but it's not crazy for a team that has cap space to see it as neutral given how easy it is to get out of after this year.

Even if we do assume that the league saw Goff as a negative. None of that has any bearing on the reports about the Eagles seeking two 1sts. They aren't saying that the Eagles will get 2 1sts for Wentz because of the Stafford deal.

You argued that the media reporting that the Eagles wanted 2 1sts was failing to realize something because of the Stafford trade, which fundamentally made no sense. They reported the Eagles wanted 2 1sts because the Eagles told teams they wanted 2 1sts. Whether they get that has no bearing on the reports.
 

BigSoxFan

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So the Twitter sphere rumor is Foles, Tarik Cohen and a 1st rounder for Wentz.

We’ll see if that’s true but that does seem to make some sense for Philly. Get your hero Foles back as quality backup in case Hurts doesn’t progress, a useful 3rd down back, and a 1st. For Chicago, that’s a reasonable price if you think Wentz is salvageable.
 

DJnVa

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People being proud of being a fair-weather fan is weird. Posting a bunch about it is weird too. No one is impressed. Just stop telling us about it. I'd rather hear about you being a cross-fitter or vegetarian.
 

E5 Yaz

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nm, mixed up the Eagles tire fire with the Texans Dumpster fire
 
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RedOctober3829

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People being proud of being a fair-weather fan is weird. Posting a bunch about it is weird too. No one is impressed. Just stop telling us about it. I'd rather hear about you being a cross-fitter or vegetarian.
Yeah I'm getting pretty sick of the "I'm not watching" posts. If you're a fan of the team, you watch period. Reasons of having an entertaining QB or being boring signal to me that some people's fandom was about the success of the 20 year run and not being a true fan of the team. I didn't watch every game this year, but every one that I could I watched because that's what we do as sports fans.
 

E5 Yaz

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Yeah I'm getting pretty sick of the "I'm not watching" posts. If you're a fan of the team, you watch period. Reasons of having an entertaining QB or being boring signal to me that some people's fandom was about the success of the 20 year run and not being a true fan of the team. I didn't watch every game this year, but every one that I could I watched because that's what we do as sports fans.
What I find comical is that there are plenty of fans on this board that lived through the worst of the worst and didn't give up watching. And yet, some of these "I'm not watching" types want to give up after a down season during a frigging pandemic.

Just save us the trouble and stop following now.
 

BunnzMcGinty

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Yeah I'm getting pretty sick of the "I'm not watching" posts. If you're a fan of the team, you watch period. Reasons of having an entertaining QB or being boring signal to me that some people's fandom was about the success of the 20 year run and not being a true fan of the team. I didn't watch every game this year, but every one that I could I watched because that's what we do as sports fans.
With all due respect, this is a pretty insulting, not to mention immature view of what it means to be a fan. I was a fan of this team when we couldn’t watch home games on TV because they sucked so bad they were all blacked out. I sat on those damn aluminum benches in the old Foxboro while they trotted out “stars” like Tommy Hodson and Scott Secules.

At the end of the day, sports are supposed to be fun and entertaining, an escape from our everyday worries and concerns. When watching just adds another heartbreak, does it really prove I’m a “real fan” for watching garbage?

min the words of George Carlin...

You know the best thing I did for myself during the past five years? I told sports to go take a flying fuck. I was fed up with the way I related to professional sports, so I reordered the relationship on my own terms. I became a little more selective.

I couldn’t believe how much time I had wasted watching any old piece of shit ballgame that happened to show up on TV. I must have thought there was some inborn male obligation to tune in and root every time a bunch of sweaty assholes got together to mix it up in a stadium somewhere.

I also realized I was wasting perfectly good emotional energy by sticking with my teams when they were doing poorly. My rooting life was scarcely better than those Cubs fans who think it’s a sign of character to feel shitty all the time. It’s absurd.

I decided it’s not necessary to suffer and feel crappy just because my teams suck. What I do now is cut ‘em loose for awhile. I simply let them go about losing, as I go about living my life. Then, when they’ve improved, and are doing well once again, I get back on board and enjoy their success.
 

djbayko

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Yeah, let’s not get into this “true fan” BS. To some, you’re not a true fan unless you buy front row tickets, paint your naked fat belly, and wear a stupid bulldog mask. Everyone has their own life priorities and level of involvement.
 

E5 Yaz

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Yeah, let’s not get into this “true fan” BS. To some, you’re not a true fan unless you buy front row tickets, paint your naked fat belly, and wear a stupid bulldog mask. Everyone has their own life priorities and level of involvement.
That's not what this back and forth is about.

It is solely aimed at those who want to walk away because they're not as great as they were. The levels of fanaticism beyond that are immaterial.
 

Mugsy's Jock

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We’ll see if that’s true but that does seem to make some sense for Philly. Get your hero Foles back as quality backup in case Hurts doesn’t progress, a useful 3rd down back, and a 1st. For Chicago, that’s a reasonable price if you think Wentz is salvageable.
Back on topic...I agree on the Philly side here, but the Bears side seems less appealing to me. Don't see any reason to think Wentz has more upside than Foles at this point, and it costs a first-rounder to find out.

Of course, I'm not a professional NFL QB evaluator. Maybe I should've mentioned that up front.
 

E5 Yaz

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Back on topic...I agree on the Philly side here, but the Bears side seems less appealing to me. Don't see any reason to think Wentz has more upside than Foles at this point, and it costs a first-rounder to find out.

Of course, I'm not a professional NFL QB evaluator. Maybe I should've mentioned that up front.
I think the idea is to reunite Wentz with his QB coach under whom he was successful. If it works, it's a bargain, because we have seen Wentz play very well. If it doesn't work, Wentz becomes just another in the long list of Bears quarterbacks that didn't pan out.

It's a reasonable gamble
 

67YAZ

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We’ll see if that’s true but that does seem to make some sense for Philly. Get your hero Foles back as quality backup in case Hurts doesn’t progress, a useful 3rd down back, and a 1st. For Chicago, that’s a reasonable price if you think Wentz is salvageable.
I don’t see why the Eagles want Cohen. He blew out his ACL on Sept 27. Even if the progress reports are positive, still a long way to go before he gets on the field and contributes. Will he get on the field during camp?

Contract-wise, he’s a reasonable salary but probably locked in for ‘21 & ‘22 given dead money.

I was very happy that Cohen got his new deal just days before his injury. But not sure what Eagles see here. Was getting a 1st rounder ties to taking Cohen?
 

RedOctober3829

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With all due respect, this is a pretty insulting, not to mention immature view of what it means to be a fan. I was a fan of this team when we couldn’t watch home games on TV because they sucked so bad they were all blacked out. I sat on those damn aluminum benches in the old Foxboro while they trotted out “stars” like Tommy Hodson and Scott Secules.

At the end of the day, sports are supposed to be fun and entertaining, an escape from our everyday worries and concerns. When watching just adds another heartbreak, does it really prove I’m a “real fan” for watching garbage?

min the words of George Carlin...
You are not one of the fans that I am talking about because you've watched through thick and thin. Being a fan is watching the games through the good times but more importantly through all the bad times. To say you're not watching because they're not entertaining enough or because of subpar QB play is just not right IMO. This started out as a Red Sox board and people obviously on here have stuck with them through the 86 years of not winning a championship. I am not old enough to have been a Patriots fan through the really horrible times so I can't say that I have. But I will be if there are those kind of times.

I am not trying to insult anybody's fandom. It just strikes a cord for me that people would tune out their favorite team for reasons listed here. I will leave it here and move on.
 
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bsj

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I watched every snap (that wasn’t blacked out) of the season Staurovsky’s foot kept us from going winless. Just for reference (and to show I am old as fuck) since I clearly am one of the fans you are talking about.

everyone is entitled to an opinion. I will still support the team through thick and thin. But that offense was really hard to watch week to week. Give me 5-11 with a future vs 7-9 with cam. But again that’s just me and I won’t judge another fan for feeling differently
 

RedOctober3829

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I watched every snap (that wasn’t blacked out) of the season Staurovsky’s foot kept us from going winless. Just for reference (and to show I am old as fuck) since I clearly am one of the fans you are talking about.

everyone is entitled to an opinion. I will still support the team through thick and thin. But that offense was really hard to watch week to week. Give me 5-11 with a future vs 7-9 with cam. But again that’s just me and I won’t judge another fan for feeling differently
I agree with you that it was hard to watch. But as you know there are ups and downs in a franchise history. I think we can all agree that let's hope this slight downturn that this year was is not the start of a longer down.
 

bsj

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I agree with you that it was hard to watch. But as you know there are ups and downs in a franchise history. I think we can all agree that let's hope this slight downturn that this year was is not the start of a longer down.
we can indeed both agree. And I am even ok if it takes longer because we are building something again.
 

NortheasternPJ

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Isn’t this just the next iteration of the “I’m done watching the NFL when the Dynasty is over! / Brady and BB are gone!” Nonsense posts over the years? Im done with the NFL once my team isn’t great anymore!!!!!!!
 

bsj

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Isn’t this just the next iteration of the “I’m done watching the NFL when the Dynasty is over! / Brady and BB are gone!” Nonsense posts over the years? Im done with the NFL once my team isn’t great anymore!!!!!!!
I mean I never said anything like that. And if I come up off The List I will gladly be paying for my seats.
 

NortheasternPJ

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I’m not calling you out but it’s been a ton of noise for years and people staying over again for multiple years about once the dynasty is over I quit!
 

Rook05

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I watched every snap (that wasn’t blacked out) of the season Staurovsky’s foot kept us from going winless. Just for reference (and to show I am old as fuck) since I clearly am one of the fans you are talking about.

everyone is entitled to an opinion. I will still support the team through thick and thin. But that offense was really hard to watch week to week. Give me 5-11 with a future vs 7-9 with cam. But again that’s just me and I won’t judge another fan for feeling differently
Maybe it’s my mayor Pete 2020 mug, but this is exactly where I’m at. I think BB was smart to take a flyer on Cam as a bridge from TB12, but we all know he’s not even a short term solution anymore.

They have some pieces but a lot of holes. QB is top of the list but I think BB can build a competitive team around the defense while casting about for even league average QB play. We’re certainly a ways away from being able to count on the position to cover up deficiencies elsewhere—think about how many teams were in the wilderness after their franchise retired! I’ll happily watch a new approach to resource allocation as watching something grow is great; watching Cam “enjoy your 2022 15th overall pick” Newton doesn’t require my watching every possession.

And the George Carlin point is accurate as well. My kids* eat up more time now and are more than capable of enraging me at any given moment; I don’t need Cam’s help too.

This is all a wonderful straw man digression, though, as I don’t think anyone is making a credible case to bring Cam back. But I can absolutely see the ennui that his return would bring.

*Shit, my little one hasn’t seen a Lombardi in two years....what are we doing?!?!
 

BunnzMcGinty

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You are not one of the fans that I am talking about because you've watched through thick and thin. Being a fan is watching the games through the good times but more importantly through all the bad times. To say you're not watching because they're not entertaining enough or because of subpar QB play is just not right IMO. This started out as a Red Sox board and people obviously on here have stuck with them through the 86 years of not winning a championship. I am not old enough to have been a Patriots fan through the really horrible times so I can't say that I have. But I will be if there are those kind of times.

I am not trying to insult anybody's fandom. It just strikes a cord for me that people would tune out their favorite team for reasons listed here. I will leave it here and move on.
I am not looking to start a fight with you, but I AM one of the fans you’re referring to. In my previous post I mentioned that I didn’t bother to watch the last three games this season. I don’t think that makes me any less a fan than anyone else, and it’s breathtakingly presumptuous of you to claim to be the arbiter of what makes someone a “real fan.” I will always ONLY be a Patriots fan. I can watch other teams play to appreciate the game, but past, present and future the Pats are my only team. I just don’t see the need to torture myself when they’re not playing competitive football. We all have other shit going on in our lives. I just had a triple coronary bypass. Looking after my own health and sanity, I’m sorry to say, is more important than fandom, and I don’t think Bill or anyone on that team would begrudge me that, so who the heck are you to?
 

bsj

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Can't we all just agree that anyone posting on a Patriots forum when the team has long since been home is likely a real fan and move on?

Regardless of what they are posting about?
 

DJnVa

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At the end of the day, sports are supposed to be fun and entertaining, an escape from our everyday worries and concerns. When watching just adds another heartbreak, does it really prove I’m a “real fan” for watching garbage?
It's fine. But you're being a fair-weather fan. And if you can turn it off because you don't like Cam Newton, then you were never actually heartbroken.
 
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