Pats Preseason: Offense Edition

rodderick

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Depends what we mean by competitors. If we mean potential playoff teams... no very few are, and even fewer successfully. We have discussed it a bunch, but rookie QBs by and large suck. Now you could argue maybe Bill cares more about getting Mac experience than making the playoffs, but I really doubt that based both on what we know about him and how this roster is built heavily around vets on short deals.
My post was predicated on the premise that Bill doesn't see much difference in performance beteween Mac and Cam in practice, which in my mind would mean the difference between them on the field wouldn't mean making the playoffs vs. punting on the season. If he thinks Cam has been better then sure, start him. My argument was the tie goes to the rookie, not that Bill should play Mac regardless (even though I would).
 

Cellar-Door

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My post was predicated on the premise that Bill doesn't see much difference in performance beteween Mac and Cam in practice, which in my mind would mean the difference between them on the field wouldn't mean making the playoffs vs. punting on the season. If he thinks Cam has been better then sure, start him. My argument was the tie goes to the rookie, not that Bill should play Mac regardless (even though I would).
Ah, I misread it then.
I will say, I think part of the thinking behind tie goes to the vet is that practice and even pre-season are good places to see some things, but there are a lot of situations that are hard to simulate, and there is still a big step up from practice to real games and most rookies aren't ready for that step.
 

rodderick

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Ah, I misread it then.
I will say, I think part of the thinking behind tie goes to the vet is that practice and even pre-season are good places to see some things, but there are a lot of situations that are hard to simulate, and there is still a big step up from practice to real games and most rookies aren't ready for that step.
You're probably right on that. Maybe if things are equal in practice you give more weight to the fact that the veteran will know how to deal with the unforeseen during games and thus has an inherent advantage.
 

SMU_Sox

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Joint practices are really useful for game simulations though. Mac has been close to perfect presnap and that’s a big test for if he can handle the offense. That’s not my opinion either it’s Josh’s. This is more like an MBA intern who you then hire on full time after the internship is done and they graduate if we’re continuing that analogy. Mac’s internship and trial period has passed with flying colors. Keep in mind I am not trying to stake a position here whether he should start or not but I believe he could week 1. That is no longer a question for me.
 

Jimbodandy

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You're probably right on that. Maybe if things are equal in practice you give more weight to the fact that the veteran will know how to deal with the unforeseen during games and thus has an inherent advantage.
This is my take too, fwiw. You have to beat the vet, not win on points. If the season starts poorly for the team and/or Cam, all bets are off of course.
 

simplyeric

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My argument was the tie goes to the rookie, not that Bill should play Mac regardless (even though I would).
counterpoint: with Cam you basically know what the downside limit would be. And I don’t think that BB sees that limit as Can’s 2020 performance overall, but I’m not sure.
McCorkle’s upside is high. His mid-range is promising. His downside is…unknown. Could be great, could be ok, could be terrible.
i don’t really rhink he’ll be terrible, butI imagine BB has to consider that risk.
 

rodderick

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counterpoint: with Cam you basically know what the downside limit would be. And I don’t think that BB sees that limit as Can’s 2020 performance overall, but I’m not sure.
McCorkle’s upside is high. His mid-range is promising. His downside is…unknown. Could be great, could be ok, could be terrible.
i don’t really rhink he’ll be terrible, butI imagine BB has to consider that risk.
On the other hand, the downside limit with Cam is bottom 3 starter in football, is there a lot lower to go?
 

simplyeric

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On the other hand, the downside limit with Cam is bottom 3 starter in football, is there a lot lower to go?
Well, ok that's fair, but that's what I meant where I don't think BB see's 2020 Cam as very likely to repeat. Obviously he could be that bad, but the downside of that is that Cam sucks, he gave McCorkle a little extra time to learn, and he knows definitively that it's time to cut bait with Cam.
If McCorkle goes in, the downside could be so bad that he get's addled and can't even perform as well as "bottom 3". Then you don't know...is that McCorkle's true nature? Does he need to recycle through it? Now we have to experiment with Cam again, and maybe he's bottom three but now McCorkle is "back in the minors working on his form" so to speak?

Downside with Cam is he's not good enough to be a starter. Shrug.
Downside with McCorkle is he's not good enough to be a starter. Uh oh...

Anyway, it's obviously all just speculation.
 
Apr 24, 2019
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It was pre-season, yes, and we don't know much of anything...but so far I'm not feeling too psyched with what we've seen from Agholor and Bourne. Hope we witness some separation from them once the full complement of the offense is in there together, particularly the TEs helping open things up. Disappointing that two of the top three positions of need heading into the off-season - WR and CB - remain major questions for this team. (Obviously, the third position of need, QB, they took a swing at and it looks like they may have hit on a good one in Mac.)
 

rodderick

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It was pre-season, yes, and we don't know much of anything...but so far I'm not feeling too psyched with what we've seen from Agholor and Bourne. Hope we witness some separation from them once the full complement of the offense is in there together, particularly the TEs helping open things up. Disappointing that two of the top three positions of need heading into the off-season - WR and CB - remain major questions for this team. (Obviously, the third position of need, QB, they took a swing at and it looks like they may have hit on a good one in Mac.)
I tend to give more weight to the Patriots Unfiltered training camp reports than I do most other beat writers because they are usually more even handed (even though they actually work for the team, go figure). None of the crew seemed all that impressed with Agholor, noting his issues with drops and sporadic abillity to get open, all of them seemed disappointed with Bourne as well. I saw a lot of "Agholor is having a great TC" reports, but apparently that's not the whole story. I was never all that high on the signing because a lot of his big catches in Las Vegas came out of structure and that's not how the Pats operate on offense. We'll see, but even with all the additions on offense Meyers is the only one I trust right now to be on the field and perform at a high level, the TEs should be good but their availability might be a concern and the other non-Meyers WRs don't excite me a lot.
 
Apr 24, 2019
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Agreed. While they shy away a bit more from the nonsense negatives (massage parlor, to name one), Patriots.com is consistently the most balanced reporting on the beat. I hope they're wrong - and I think they'd like to be wrong - but the CB and WR positions continue to be a concern, and while the total yardage allowed on the ground hasn't been bad, I agree with their sneaky-worry about stopping the run. I suspect it may improve once all the regular big boys are playing together, but right now we don't have quite as clear a picture, even within in the context of "early on," as I thought we would when it comes to that aspect of the D.
 

MegaBiffHead

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Well, ok that's fair, but that's what I meant where I don't think BB see's 2020 Cam as very likely to repeat. Obviously he could be that bad, but the downside of that is that Cam sucks, he gave McCorkle a little extra time to learn, and he knows definitively that it's time to cut bait with Cam.
If McCorkle goes in, the downside could be so bad that he get's addled and can't even perform as well as "bottom 3". Then you don't know...is that McCorkle's true nature? Does he need to recycle through it? Now we have to experiment with Cam again, and maybe he's bottom three but now McCorkle is "back in the minors working on his form" so to speak?

Downside with Cam is he's not good enough to be a starter. Shrug.
Downside with McCorkle is he's not good enough to be a starter. Uh oh...

Anyway, it's obviously all just speculation.
Honestly Cam is still the way to go, but I wouldn't be surprised if we make a change after some tough losses early (i.e. going 1-3 or even 2-2 if some are ugly). However, if last year can be of any hope, I feel like we can hang with best teams. I'm optimistic about Cam (See: not racist) but I'm excited for the potential future face of the franchise. If he doesn't have the need to spend significant time on his form, it's probably best to start getting experience rather than milking the last drops from Cam's career.
 

Fisks Of Fury

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"I think you're gonna like this kid when he's out there"

I already do. I hope the flashes he showed in preseason extend to the real games. He could be a fun guy to watch.
 

SMU_Sox

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Not sure if they move Onwenu to RT or keep him at guard. At left guard last week he was the second highest graded guy via PFF. Is putting him at RT and putting Karras at LG a better move than keeping him at LG and using Durant or Herron? It’s possible. If Karras can be average as a guard that’s better than having a weak link at RT. Onwenu can give you at least an average quality start there but you might need to give him some TE help.
 

RIrooter09

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