Pats FA Watch: LGBT Back on a 1-year Deal
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I think where we disagree is in assessing how bad things are. They were terrible yesterday, no doubt, but Solder is a pretty important piece of this line. I'm also perhaps the only member of the Tre Jackson fan club (although Rick Trickett seems to be one) but he was out and he was generally the starting RG from day 1 of camp although he did compete with Kline for time, so you're down one solid starter and one guy who might be a starter. Kline and Vollmer both had fairly serious seeming injuries late in the season and neither have played particularly well since coming back; my suspicion is that both were playing injured and it affected their quality of play.
My hope and belief is that Mason-Stork-Jackson are all good enough (and young enough) that with another year they'll be a pretty decent interior line and that yesterday was just a terrible day at the office for a young, banged up line playing on the road at altitude against a great defensive line.
I certainly agree that if BB doesn't see Solder-Mason-Stork-Jackson-Vollmer and co as a promising line for next season he'll do something to fix it even if it is doing something a little out of character and hitting free agency.
Well I included Andrews or Stork in there as well, to address another huge need for Arizona.
But what you suggest makes some sense. Both guys drafted in the first round of the same draft (8 spots apart, I think). Each fills a glaring need for the other team. I could see it. Floyd, last 3 seasons, has averaged 55 rec, 910 yds, and 16.7 ypc. That would be a very, very nice guy to line up with Edelman and Gronk.
But all this is predicated on the supposed belief that the Patriots will move on from Jones, and if they will, it's better to get something for him now than to let him go to free agency.
Is Floyd that much better than Lafell? He's better, but LaFell (who was hurt for most of this year) isn't that bad. He's not that good either, though.I too want the Patriots to address the WR position, but I don't know enough about Michael Floyd to know if he would be a good fit on offense. Does his skill set really mesh with Brady's?
I know everyone wants the 07 stretch the field kind of offense, but i'm not sure that player is out there. If the Pats think he is, I would like them to go for it.
I know everyone wants the 07 stretch the field kind of offense, but i'm not sure that player is out there. If the Pats think he is, I would like them to go for it.
What I'm really excited for is the return of Dion Lewis. I hope he can come back from his ACL injury, because he is one of the most dynamic players I've seen in a while, and he definitely adds a completely new layer to this offense that James White and Brandon Bolden just cannot provide.
Belichick always said that Randy Moss was one of the smartest players he ever coached, in addition to being a world-class athlete. I'm guessing those kinds of receivers are in very short supply.
I think the OL has been pretty bad all season and it has only intermittently bit them because Brady's so quick getting the ball out. They built up a huge lead all the way back in Week 2 but still didn't even attempt to run the ball because they had no faith they could do so - and that's when Solder was healthy (though Stork was out). Opposing defenses don't have to respect their ability to run the ball at all. Any game where Brady was able to get the ball out in less than 2 seconds, the protection held up, but that doesn't mean the protection was good. McDaniels had to scheme around the offensive line's deficiencies all season, and he eventually ran out of options.
Wouldn't this be the offseason to spend more for a top-flight OL that most fits their scheme?
Yea. I think there are very few players they'd bring in for big money. Here are your UFA free agents this year (http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/wide-receiver/).
Fans of many teams are savoring over adding Alshon Jeffery, but it seems very unlikely that he leaves Chicago, at is has been rumored that they will apply the franchise tag to him. Other than him, there aren't a lot of promising options. Is Anquan Boldin really an impact player at this point in time? Do they want to bring in another a rrelatively low upside guy like Rishard Matthews or Jermaine Kearse? Maybe a guy like Mohammad Sanu could provide some solid impact at a relatively low cost; he's definitely stretched the field for Cincinnati. But it's never been like the Pats to shop at or near the top of the WR market. Maybe they think Brandon Gibson can be that guy for the vet. minimum? Otherwise, it's looking like a trade or the normal lower tiers of the market.
Jeff Howe @jeffphowe 10m10 minutes ago
Montee Ball and J.J. Worton were the only 2 practice squadders who didn't get future contracts from the Pats today.
Montee Ball and J.J. Worton were the only 2 practice squadders who didn't get future contracts from the Pats today.
I agree. They weren't a good line this season. The plan appeared to be to have Mason/Jackson play through some growing pains and hopefully have everything jell by the end of the season and that didn't happen for a variety of reasons. The key question is whether one of the reasons the line was so shitty yesterday is because you're playing guys who realistically aren't good enough to be part of an above average--or even average- o line. My thought is that there's enough young talent on the interior that you build on that but who the hell knows. We'll have a pretty good idea about what Belichick thinks by the start of day 3 of the draft.
Every year I put together a completely unreasonable, pie-in-the-sky, "if money and caps didn't exist" wish list based on the Pats' needs, kind of like a kid with no concept of budgetary concerns around Christmastime. It's my Madden moment and it makes me feel better about the season being over--looking to the future and looking at who is out there. Of course, BB won't go near most of these players, but it's still fun. Here's my crazy list for each position of need:
O-Line:
Alex Boone, G, San Fran
Kelvin Beachum. OT, Pitt
Russell Okung, T, Seattle
Receivers:
Alshon Jeffery, WR, Chi
Reuben Randle, WR, NYG
Ben Watson, TE, NO
Colby Fleener, TE, Indy
Backfield:
Matt Forte, RB, Chi
Chris Ivory, RB, NYJ
Doug Martin, RB, TB
Secondary:
Sean Smith, CB, KC
Janoris Jenkkins, CB, LA
James Ihedigbo, S, Detroit
Reggie Nelson, S, Cincy
Chris Conte, S, TB
Again, most of these are in the "keep dreaming" realm, especially with a small cap window and such a prominent list of upcoming defensive FAs in '17. But it'd be great to grab an upper-echelon lineman, a big receiver or playmaker, a between-the-tackles runner and/or a true force in the secondary. And oh yeah, I just want Ben Watson back in red, white and blue.
O-Line:
Alex Boone, G, San Fran
Kelvin Beachum. OT, Pitt
Russell Okung, T, Seattle
Receivers:
Alshon Jeffery, WR, Chi
Reuben Randle, WR, NYG
Ben Watson, TE, NO
Colby Fleener, TE, Indy
Backfield:
Matt Forte, RB, Chi
Chris Ivory, RB, NYJ
Doug Martin, RB, TB
Secondary:
Sean Smith, CB, KC
Janoris Jenkkins, CB, LA
James Ihedigbo, S, Detroit
Reggie Nelson, S, Cincy
Chris Conte, S, TB
Again, most of these are in the "keep dreaming" realm, especially with a small cap window and such a prominent list of upcoming defensive FAs in '17. But it'd be great to grab an upper-echelon lineman, a big receiver or playmaker, a between-the-tackles runner and/or a true force in the secondary. And oh yeah, I just want Ben Watson back in red, white and blue.
Perhaps coincidentally, JJ was arrested last night for assaulting two women in a Foxboro bar. OK it probably isn't a coincidence.
A perfect tight end fit for us would be Dwayne Allen. He's had injury issues (hitting IR 2 of his 4 years in the league) so the price might be reasonable.
Pretty sure this was just discussed on the previous page.
They can have a first round pick, they'll just have to forfeit whichever pick is higher between their actual pick and the one they acquired via a trade.
Thanks to the Commish's ad hoc jurisprudence, I believe the Pats would be able to use the lower pick in these rounds, meaning if they traded for the 18th pick in the first round, they would surrender that 18th pick back to the NFL in exchange for the return of their {swindled} original 29th slot.
It certainly makes it seem like BB thinks the guys have more talent than they demonstrated this year, doesn't it?
Well, you said someone like Sanu at low cost, so it's not like they'd be shopping at or near the top of the market.
Guys I'd like to know more about on that list: Kearse, Sanu, Jeffery, Inman.
Sorry if this has already been answered, but would the Patriots be allowed to trade for the rights to another teams 1st round selection after it has been made. As in, could they work out a trade beforehand, inform the other team who they want and then execute the trade after the other team picks.
Yea that was confusing. I meant more like "at the top of the market in a given free agent year". I'd expect Sanu to be one of the more coveted available WR's this season, and its not like the Pats to get into bidding wars for mid-level players. I do think he could be a very solid addition, Lafell with the ability to at least try to catch the ball deep.
They took that kind of leap of faith with the cornerback group this year, jettisoning pretty much everybody and handing Butler and Ryan (and later Coleman) major players with limited experience. That was more of a projection to a larger role - Butler and Ryan had shown flashes but were buried behind vets - whereas the young OL played a lot and were pretty bad. At CB, they also signed cheapish veterans like Brown, Fletcher, and McClair who could give them a defined floor. I could see that approach - maybe as simple as re-signing Wendell and maybe a guy like Waddle or Donald Thomas.
On paper, Boone is perfect - he's a pretty good guard who also has experience at tackle. He might be expensive, though, and he's been known to criticize his coaches and teammates to the media - a big BB no-no.
I'm confused as to why we'd be looking at safeties at all - McCourty is one of the best players on the team, Chung has been good in the SS role and is still under contract, Harmon's a capable third guy, and they just took Jordan Richards in the 2nd round.
I don't have the specific wording to the penalty, but I don't think this was covered in it. In theory, this seems like one way to get around the penalty.
How about potential cap casualties?
RBs including Lynch, Foster, Spiller
WRs including Johnson, Wallace, Garcon, Cruz
TEs including Cameron, Bennett?
Plus guys like Cameron Wake, Alterraun Verner?
Not a hugely inspiring list (Calvin Johnson is just not going to happen), but there you have it.
RBs including Lynch, Foster, Spiller
WRs including Johnson, Wallace, Garcon, Cruz
TEs including Cameron, Bennett?
Plus guys like Cameron Wake, Alterraun Verner?
Not a hugely inspiring list (Calvin Johnson is just not going to happen), but there you have it.
He's going to be highly coveted in Ohio alone as the Bengals definitely want to keep him while Hue Jackson loves him. He's not coming off a big statistical year but I imagine his age and ability combined with the shallow WR market is going to get him paid.
I feel like Foster and Forte would be good veteran options as both guys can run between the tackles a bit but have the versatility in the passing game. Our running game has always been pretty predictable. Either it's a run/play action (to a TE/WR) with guys like Ridley/Lawfirm/Blount or it's a pass to a scat back like Woody/Vereen/Lewis/White. Having a true 2 way RB would make this offense even better. But I really can't see them spending extra money at this position.
I think this was answered already, but I'll give my take why this wouldn't work.
First problem: team's seldom trade their draft choices after they're made in the NFL. Yes, it happens sometimes in the NBA, but the nature of the draft is very different for the two leagues. In the NFL, there is the expectation that your first rounder becomes a solid starter, or a Pro Bowl caliber player if all goes well. In the NBA, most first rounders are roster fodder. So such a trade would be unconventional in the NFL, and most GM's hate unconventional.
Second problem: The dearth of draft picks to trade. Since the Pats don't have a first round pick to trade, and they're 2nd and 3rd round picks will be pretty late in the round, they would have to cobble together a lot of lower round picks to meet the trade value of a first round pick. So, at best the Pats would likely be looking at a guy picked in the upper 20's, if that. Some have mentioned using Chandler Jones as trade bait, but that has its own set of challenges, and the return for a guy that could very well be a one year rental would be very uncertain.
Third problem, and by far the most serious: Remember when Goodell stripped the Cowboys and Redskins of salary cap space for front loading player contracts during the uncapped year? Neither team violated the any written rule regarding the salary cap or the CBA. Instead, they were punished for violating the "spirit of the rule". I am sure the Omissioner would not hesitate to do the same here, as the whole forfeiture of the higher pick in the round was designed to prevent this very situation. Both teams would likely be penalized severely, and the Patriots more so as they would be assumed to be "repeat cheaters". Goodell has made it clear over and over again that he feels the Patriots got off lightly for Spygate, and Spygate was cited in the DeflateGate punishments. Most GM's wouldn't want to take the chance anyway.
Yes. I don't imagine a coach gets fired because of one game. It's also not their style to punctuate a dismal performance by a next day in-your-face dismissal. Or to scapegoat. This has been brewing.
This underscores that standards here are high, very high. And that they think they have more talent on the line than most of us believe.
Given their injuries and shuffling, I did not blink at the problems. I thought they were understandable and that the team over performed. In some notable ways our season mirrored Green Bay's.
They need OL help obviously, and another WR who can get open quickly to replace LaFell, or still catch the ball when really not open (like Boldin).
The days of turning straw into gold on the OL seemed to have left with Scarnecchia. Regardless of who the next OL coach is I wonder if there will be a philosophical shift in drafting OL with earlier round picks. (I know Solder was a 1st and Vollmer was a 2nd but they are the exceptions).
On the RB front I have no idea of his cost but I would kill to see McDaniel's hard on for the RB wheel route meet the downfield catching abilities of Matt Forte.
On the RB front I have no idea of his cost but I would kill to see McDaniel's hard on for the RB wheel route meet the downfield catching abilities of Matt Forte.
I've seen a fair amount of Bears games because the ol' lady's from Chicago, and while I'm not great football mind, I'm not sure I agree with this assessment or the love for Forte. Jeffrey is tall with a big body, and as great as he is going deep, he's also very good at muscling his way to the sticks and using his frame to pick up first downs. He's not quite tight end big, but I think he'd be a great complement to Gronk as another large receiver with great hands and someone who can also stretch the field. Remember, whether Brady can hit him on every deep route or not, opposing defenses will still have to respect him going long.
As for Forte, he's 30, been in the league 8 years, and because of his receiving abilities, has a fair amount of touches. He had over 100 receptions 2 years ago plus over 200 carries. He's dynamic, but assuming Dion is back and healthy, somewhat redundant, no? We have the shifty, pass-catching back. I'd like to see a bruiser we can count on to consistently plow forward and get 3-4 yards, even with the line stacked. From what I've seen of Forte, unless he makes someone miss, or gets lost in the scrum (I know he's tall, but he always seems to run low to me), he's not the kind of fellow who's going to run defenses over and make something out of nothing.
Inman
Boone
Schwartz
Marcedes Lewis (but it wont happen)
I would think about bringing Tim Wright back
I would kick the tires on Harrison and Wilkerson just to make life difficult on the Jets.
Paul Worrilow
Jeremy Lane
Josh Norman (HA!)
Boone
Schwartz
Marcedes Lewis (but it wont happen)
I would think about bringing Tim Wright back
I would kick the tires on Harrison and Wilkerson just to make life difficult on the Jets.
Paul Worrilow
Jeremy Lane
Josh Norman (HA!)
La Canfora says the Patriots are expected to "make a flashy move whether by trade or in free agency" this offseason.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/25463330/hate-tom-brady-and-the-pats-all-you-want-but-theyre-not-going-anywhere
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/25463330/hate-tom-brady-and-the-pats-all-you-want-but-theyre-not-going-anywhere
That gets me all excited, and then I think, Expected by whom? And how the hell do they know? And since when do he he patriots reveal even a hint of their cards to anyone, let alone LaCanfora?
His thinking is that they have most of roster all set and can easily make more cap room.
This has to be the most annoyingly written piece of journalism I've ever read.
Yeah, I guess, but his unsourced, uncited claim that you can expect them to make a big move, or they are expected to, is super vague and sketchy. Hey, I hope he's right, I'm psyched! I'd love for them to do any number of things he quasi-alludes to. I'm just skeptical and feel like the article doesn't have a lot of meat on the bone, no matter how excited I was to read his assessment.
FWIW, Miguel from Patscap.com says he thinks that Mayo will be cut before 3/9, Hightower will be extended before then, and a Collins extension will likely happen in the next 3 months.
A surprise roster move may be to KEEP Blount, who won't command much in the market. A 1-year, min. vet deal works for me.
Another would be to also KEEP LaFell, giving him a mulligan this year, but rework the deal to spread out the cap hit. We all know how difficult it is to find a veteran WR who can learn the system. LaFell was inconsistent year-to-year in Detroit, and 2016 could be more like 2014 for him.
Another would be to also KEEP LaFell, giving him a mulligan this year, but rework the deal to spread out the cap hit. We all know how difficult it is to find a veteran WR who can learn the system. LaFell was inconsistent year-to-year in Detroit, and 2016 could be more like 2014 for him.
Okung isnt going to be cheap nor is he likely willing to play RT when he can get paid more money to play LT (and do an average or above average job there)
Then Okung could play LT and Solder move over to RT. I just want to upgrade the tackle position if in fact Vollmer has trade value.
Keeping Blount if he would stay for the vet minimum wouldn't really seem like a surprising move to me.
LaFell has had one good 3/4 of a season. Not opposed to keeping him on a reworked deal necessarily, but he's more likely than not to be bad next year.
How much reworking can the Patriots do? He's being paid $2.5 million next year. They stand to save $1.5M if they cut him. That's basically Scott Chandler money. I'm skeptical that the Patriots can do better by cutting him. Reworking would make sense with Amendola.
