Pats Draft Rd.1/15: QB Michael McCorkle "Mac" Jones

Ferm Sheller

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I notice this too, but dress pants and even khakis in an office setting are being worn a bit shorter these days by the younger set.
Yeah, now that I think about it, I think you're right. But it'd drive me crazy. Pants should break once on the shoe!
 

Eddie Jurak

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I know he’s not a runner. They won’t be calling any plays for him to run the ball. But I’ve seen enough highlights of him avoiding the rush and getting 8-10 yards. They don’t need him to do any more than that on the ground.
I mean, look at Brady and Marino. Lousy runners, both of them, but they could step away from the rush.
 

RetractableRoof

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Possible. Generally though Bad Cam was ugly, but he had some floor because he didn't turn it over that much and he could run. The issue with rookie QBs a lot of the time is that they just turn it over and take negative plays way too much.

Say the last 4 games of last year, Cam's worst stretch... he took an awful 12 sacks... but he didn't have a single turnover. Then take someone like Tua, a pretty good high pedigree rookie.. he took 10 sacks and turned it over 5 times in his last 4 games, or looking at the mid-round picks in 2019...
Jones... 38 sacks 32 TOs in 12 starts
Haskins- 23 sacks 13 TOs in 7 starts
Josh Allen rookie year.. 28 sacks 20 TOs in 11 starts.
Agreeing with your post...

Everything we know about BB is that he tries to remove the unknown from the game. Drills to reduce fumbles, to handle weather; choosing backs that run north/south gaining 3 or 4 yards versus dancing around maybe getting 8, but maybe losing 2. Emphasizing possession slot receivers versus the explosive vertical game. Everything to reduce risk, and make the game plannable. Obviously we can point out exceptions, but if there is one pattern with BB, reduce every variable to something that can be game planned for or against. If MJ is considered more polished than his peers in taking care of the ball, then I'd say it makes him a lot more valuable to BB (assuming he can meet the minimum demands of the job) than someone who might occasionally convert the impossible. I personally don't believe that BB would co-exist very well with say... Brett Favre. I am NOT comparing the skills of MJ with the following names, but guys like Simms and Hostetler (sp?) were successful around Parcells/BB, for those very reasons - they were game managers, who didn't make a lot of mistakes. I think BB is likely thrilled with the possibilities of MJ and his skill set - even if he never becomes 'magical'. With Brady, we got the ultimate game manager, and then all his extras that made him magical. I think BB believes he can win in this league with a game manager and a basic plannable floor of performance - hell didn't he do it with Cassell?

Something about this stat example really confuses me:

According to this, Burrow averaged 13 "tight window" attempted throws per game in 2019, whereas Mac Jones only averaged 6 per game in 2020. The question to me is why Burrow faced more than 2x the number of tight window throws per game that Jones did. I mean, it's not like Burrow was throwing to a group of less talented receivers in Jefferson, Chase and Edwards-Helaire, all of whom were first round NFL picks. Terrace Marshall Jr will probably get his name called today as well. That's a really skilled group of pass-catchers and it seems like a stretch to say that they were twice as likely to struggle to get as "wide open" as Smith, Waddle, Metchie and Harris.

Is it possible that Jones is better than Burrow at finding open receivers?
A couple of posts in here with film break down make reference to MJ looking off the defenders before hitting the receivers, or 'looking them open' - perhaps 'more open'. The reverse is obviously true, a QB that gives a play away with his eyes, where he's facing, etc. If they have the same quality of receivers it's not unreasonable to me that one QB might a couple of times a game get his receiver further open than another QB. Whether that kind of skill plays immediately on the next level is a different question, right?

Would like to see those dress pants an inch or so longer.
It's quite windy in that photo, look at the table skirts, and the material tension against his legs. No wind, his pants are an inch or so lower, and you are happy. This might be the best film work I've done in weeks, glad to be of service.
 

JM3

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Dumb question - who is the most athletic QB Belichick has drafted with the Patriots for the purposes of having them be a QB?

Kevin O'Connell?
 

Ferm Sheller

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It's quite windy in that photo, look at the table skirts, and the material tension against his legs. No wind, his pants are an inch or so lower, and you are happy. This might be the best film work I've done in weeks, glad to be of service.
Nice hypothesis, but I'm not buying it. The Krafts are subjected to the same wind and they don't have any issue. We'll have to agree to disagree.
 

JM3

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Nice hypothesis, but I'm not buying it. The Krafts are subjected to the same wind and they don't have any issue. We'll have to agree to disagree.
I'm the last 1 to defend Mac as it relates to anything...

But BKraft is wearing jeans & JKraft's pants are clearly too big.

I have a bigger issue with the crooked tie & brown shoes.
 

Cellar-Door

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Dumb question - who is the most athletic QB Belichick has drafted with the Patriots for the purposes of having them be a QB?

Kevin O'Connell?
Zac Robinson.
4.7 ish 40, was a real running threat in college
 

nighthob

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I agree with the substance but might quibble with the phrasing. Mahomes and Tebow are in my book elite athletes regardless of their 40s--the combination of speed quickness balance change of direction ability, power, flexibility makes them elite even if the speed isn't outlandish.

Little reason to think Jones is an elite athlete in the same way.
True and true. I think Jones is what we normally expect from a QB that runs a 4.8 40. Mahomes and Tebow are the freaks because of their strength (especially their leg power), willingness to run, and their ability to change directions.

But that's always the point I make when I have this talk annually in the Port Cellar. Jodie Meeks looked like Baby Jordan in the NBA's draft combine testing. But the lack of blocks, steals, and dunks should have warned people that the athleticism wasn't functional (Semi Ojeleye is a more recent example of this).

Monta Ellis, in comparison, tested out as one of the worst athletes in his draft. His combine numbers were so bad (he was a 6'2" G with a 34" max vert, whose lane agility was one of the worst times... for centers, while his 3/4 court sprint time was amongst the slowest of the guards), that Boston passed on him in the first round thinking that he'd still be there when they drafted in the second. But when he got into the NBA the pre-injury Ellis just dunked the bejesus out of the ball.

Would like to see those dress pants an inch or so lower.
His masseuses don't agree.
 

Ferm Sheller

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I'm the last 1 to defend Mac as it relates to anything...

But BKraft is wearing jeans & JKraft's pants are clearly too big.

I have a bigger issue with the crooked tie & brown shoes.
Yeah, fail across the board there (although I'm inclined to give the near octogenarian -- no relation to Berj Najarian -- a free pass).

Let's hope they draft better dressers in rounds 2-7!
 

JM3

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Zac Robinson.
4.7 ish 40, was a real running threat in college
Not bad. 4.71 40, 7.86 RAS. Made it on the roster all the way to September 4th...

I guess my general point is that BB has never spent a serious draft pick on anyone who could be described as a dual threat QB in any sense of the word & I wonder if whatever leads to that is part of why we don't like Justin Fields & almost never draft a competent WR...
 

j44thor

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4.94 40
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Extremely unathletic. People just think otherwise cuz reasons.
Brissett did have 83yds rushing in 3gms his rookie season in NE and followed that up with 260yds rushing in 2017 for IND. Perhaps he just didn't test well at the combine but he definitely wasn't unathletic for a QB. Jimmy G by comparison has 140yds rushing for his career.
 

JM3

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Yeah, fail across the board there (although I'm inclined to give the near octogenarian -- no relation to Berj Najarian -- a free pass).

Let's hope they draft better dressers in rounds 2-7!
Yeah, I was just explaining why his pants were unaffected by the wind. It's not a bad look, & I like the shoes.
 

JM3

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Brissett did have 83yds rushing in 3gms his rookie season in NE and followed that up with 260yds rushing in 2017 for IND. Perhaps he just didn't test well at the combine but he definitely wasn't unathletic for a QB. Jimmy G by comparison has 140yds rushing for his career.
13 QBs ran for more than 260 yards in 2020 alone. Not sure if that proves much. But yeah, he definitely has more functional running ability than his slowness would imply.
 

Cellar-Door

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I will say Brissett may not have been athletic, but he was a pretty good runner, which is it's own thing. Some guy's have speed but aren't actually good at running. Others like Mahomes, don't test well on speed, but are good at the technique involved and are far more dangerous than you'd expect as a threat to take off.
 

BusRaker

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So Michael Bishop was a Big Tuna draft? That guy could throw a bomb and run too

" Tom Brady called Bishop "one of the best athletes he has ever seen"
 

nighthob

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Extremely unathletic. People just think otherwise cuz reasons.
I had never really looked at the combine numbers, but it looks like Brissett would be an NFL example for functional athleticism. Regardless of athletic scores, he was a pretty effective runner as a QB.
 

Ferm Sheller

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So Michael Bishop was a Big Tuna draft? That guy could throw a bomb and run too

" Tom Brady called Bishop "one of the best athletes he has ever seen"
Pete Carroll, I believe.

(At least PC was the HC of the NEP at the time -- not sure how much say he had in taking Bishop.)
 

JM3

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I had never really looked at the combine numbers, but it looks like Brissett would be an NFL example for functional athleticism. Regardless of athletic scores, he was a pretty effective runner as a QB.
Yeah. His actual athleticism lowers the upside of his functional athleticism some, though, but he's definitely much more of the latter than the former.
 

Ferm Sheller

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Belichick had been the coach of the Patriots for three months when Bishop was drafted. I find it impossible to believe that he wasn't making the calls even though Grier might still have had his job title.
This is not true. Bishop was taken in the 1999 draft (when Pete Carroll was still HC). Pete got fired the first week of January 2000, which was when BB took his place.
 

snowmanny

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That...was not very good defense lol.

Anyway, sorry for the derail. Just thinking through some things. Following the stages of grief blah blah blah.

I think it would be fun to have younger, faster, more accurate, better processing Cam to learn from Cam, but BB disagrees & I guess that's OK.

Cam had a 10.0 RAS fwiw.
I wanted Fields as well. Not sure that QBs are projectable enough to throw in a first next year to take Fields instead of Jones (though I would have probably gone ahead) but I have some faith that BB knows more than me and has a plan. I am just not at all convinced this is a bust situation. And we have some data that SF would have at least been OK with Jones so I am thinking enough people think he can be high floor in the right offense that he sounds like a very plausible upgrade.
 

JM3

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I wanted Fields as well. Not sure that QBs are projectable enough to throw in a first next year to take Fields instead of Jones (though I would have probably gone ahead) but I have some faith that BB knows more than me and has a plan. I am just not at all convinced this is a bust situation. And we have some data that SF would have at least been OK with Jones so I am thinking enough people think he can be high floor in the right offense that he sounds like a very plausible upgrade.
I get it & get all the arguments & just hope I'm wrong - & would have traded an extra 1st to go from Jones to Fields in a heartbeat.
 

nighthob

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That...was not very good defense lol.

Anyway, sorry for the derail. Just thinking through some things. Following the stages of grief blah blah blah.

I think it would be fun to have younger, faster, more accurate, better processing Cam to learn from Cam, but BB disagrees & I guess that's OK.

Cam had a 10.0 RAS fwiw.
Yeah, young Cam was an athletic freak of nature and I think that Lance and Fields are that same sort of player, but with more upside as I think they're both better processors than Cam was at the same age. If it's any comfort I think the implications of Kyed's tweets on the subject is that Belichick was willing to move up for Lance, but not for the other two. So he seems to have agreed with you on the question of QBs. If only the Niners had taken Jones, alas.
 

JM3

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I don’t know how to find these numbers but what about Danny Elting? Had the memorable preseason run and tried to switch to WR.
Etling was 4.76 40, 8.33 RAS. Not bad. He was average at everything except he had elite weight & 10-yard split lol.
 

JM3

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Yeah, young Cam was an athletic freak of nature and I think that Lance and Fields are that same sort of player, but with more upside as I think they're both better processors than Cam was at the same age. If it's any comfort I think the implications of Kyed's tweets on the subject is that Belichick was willing to move up for Lance, but not for the other two. So he seems to have agreed with you on the question of QBs. If only the Niners had taken Jones, alas.
Yeah. I wish the 49ers had uniforms I liked more so I could overcome like 35 years of dislike & make Team Lance my 2nd favorite team.
 

johnmd20

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Brissett did have 83yds rushing in 3gms his rookie season in NE and followed that up with 260yds rushing in 2017 for IND. Perhaps he just didn't test well at the combine but he definitely wasn't unathletic for a QB. Jimmy G by comparison has 140yds rushing for his career.
Yeah, but then JM3 would have missed his chance to imply someone was being racist.

And when you get that chance, you take it.
 

Cellar-Door

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I think combine athleticism isn't really the key either if you're looking at player type.
The real thing I look at is college rushing. Robinson is really the only player with significant rushing in college, Etling had some too actually.
 

heavyde050

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mirror image of Cam would be... low completion percentage, high TDs, lots of picks no rushing yards So... Jameis?
Doesn't Cam have a relatively low career completion % (compared to other top QBs) and relatively high interception %? I mean right around ~60% career completion % and 2.7 interception % can't be considered good, can it?

Edit - I was wrong - the 2.7% is the same as Peyton, so not that bad.
 

JM3

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Yeah, but then JM3 would have missed his chance to imply someone was being racist.

And when you get that chance, you take it.
Lol. I don't think it's implying racism that people just assume black QBs are better athletes than they are? It happens all the time. & I also think there's a difference between cognitive bias that makes you think someone is better at something than they are & racism, but that's an argument I'm not having. I promise I wasn't trying to be mean to the poster I said it to, though.

The Patriots ran him a lot because he was a rookie 3rd-stringer who was still learning the offense.

& in his most prolific year rushing he ran for 63/260 which is 4.1 yards per carry & he averages 3.7 ypc for his career, 11.9 yards per game. He was tied for 5th among QBs in carries, but was 12th in yards.

For comparison purposes, in that same 2017 season Mitch Trubisky ran for 41/248/2 in 12 games, 6.0 ypc, & has 5.6 ypc for career & 20.7 ypg for his career.

Trubisky is also 29-21 as a starting QB & I'm thinking the Bills did a smart thing signing him, but that's neither here nor there.

Also in 2017, Blake Bortles ran for 57/322/2 with 5.6 ypc, & has 6.2 ypc for his career & 22.6 ypg for his career.

So I guess I don't see those rushing #s as painting a different picture regarding Brissett's athleticism.
 

JM3

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I'm still at work. I should be drinking, though.

Sorry for the derail. G'luck to Mac <3