Patriots WRs

BigSoxFan

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The top 5 offensive lines by pass block win-rate are:
1. Denver
2. Philadelphia
3. Minnesota
4. Kansas City
5. Baltimore
These teams are all in the playoffs as of today. NE is 32 in PBWR. Imagine what Maye would be behind that Denver line, Nix has been good and he was not a top 3 pick. BTW the 2nd ranked interior offensive lineman by PBWR is a fella named Joe Thuney, the 16th best is some bum named Ted Karras.
I bet the current WRs would be a lot more productive if NE had a top five offensive line. I am not against adding a top WR but this line is awful pass blocking and run blocking and should be the top priority.
Problem is that this doesn’t look like a great year for OT. Pats will be in range of Campbell and Banks but we’ll have to see how they grade out. I know there has been some talk about whether or not Campbell will succeed at OT in NFL or would be better suited to be IOL, similar to Robert Gallery.

Travis Hunter is the guy I want but he may go #1 or #2 and we’re probably unlikely to get that high. Feels like it may be a good year to trade down and acquire more picks.
 

EJPats

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Feels like it may be a good year to trade down and acquire more picks.
Kiper, Field Yates, and a few of ESPN’s other draft guys co-wrote an ESPN+ article the other day. There were anecdotes regarding the quality of this draft class. One AFC source said they only had 8 guys with true first round grades. An NFC source said this class had the lowest number of true first rounders that he’s seen in his career.

I acknowledge those are only two opinions. But if this ends up being the consensus, I think I’d prefer to take one of the guys at the top. The Patriots need elite talent, and this draft may be short on supply.
 

BigSoxFan

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Kiper, Field Yates, and a few of ESPN’s other draft guys co-wrote an ESPN+ article the other day. There were anecdotes regarding the quality of this draft class. One AFC source said they only had 8 guys with true first round grades. An NFC source said this class had the lowest number of true first rounders that he’s seen in his career.

I acknowledge those are only two opinions. But if this ends up being the consensus, I think I’d prefer to take one of the guys at the top. The Patriots need elite talent, and this draft may be short on supply.
Yeah, not talking a huge trade down but we should be bottom 3-4 this year. Would be good to trade down maybe 4-5 spots and pick up another 2nd or something like that.
 

jk333

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The top 5 offensive lines by pass block win-rate are:
1. Denver
2. Philadelphia
3. Minnesota
4. Kansas City
5. Baltimore
These teams are all in the playoffs as of today. NE is 32 in PBWR. Imagine what Maye would be behind that Denver line, Nix has been good and he was not a top 3 pick. BTW the 2nd ranked interior offensive lineman by PBWR is a fella named Joe Thuney, the 16th best is some bum named Ted Karras.
I bet the current WRs would be a lot more productive if NE had a top five offensive line. I am not against adding a top WR but this line is awful pass blocking and run blocking and should be the top priority.
On the other hand where were Thuney, Karras and Onwenu drafted? If there are no good free agents at premium positions because they all get signed prior to free agency, then you have to draft these players and if you can get great guards in the middle rounds, you have to do it and use your premium picks on the more valuable positions.

Overall, I do agree that they badly need an offensive line upgrade.
 
Oct 12, 2023
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On the other hand where were Thuney, Karras and Onwenu drafted? If there are no good free agents at premium positions because they all get signed prior to free agency, then you have to draft these players and if you can get great guards in the middle rounds, you have to do it and use your premium picks on the more valuable positions.

Overall, I do agree that they badly need an offensive line upgrade.
As with every position, the majority of “great” guards come from the early portions of the draft. You can get a Thuney in round 3, sure. But nobody would say “you can find Russell Wilson in the 3rd or you can get Stefon Diggs in the 5th and therefore wait to take a QB/WR”

The vast majority of guards taken in the middle to late rounds wash out or turn into low end players. The constant need for even halfway serviceable bodies at OL keeps some of these guys around for years (like Pats bust turned journeyman spot starter Hjalte Froholdt)

BB did pretty well with late round linemen but how much was his (and his scouting team) knack for it and how much was Scarnecchia coaching guys up, who knows.

League wide trends though suggest you can’t rely on finding great guards later on. Guys better than Michael Jordan? Possibly. But Jordan was a 4th round pick himself (same draft as Froholdt) and those types are about what you can expect. Chris Lindstrom (14th overall) was by far the best G in that draft. 2nd best was maybe Nate Davis (82nd) or Ben Powers (123rd). But of the other 10 guys taken, Jordan and Froholdt are basically the “best”

You can get by with bad interior OL more easily than bad tackles but generally you don’t have much more success finding high end ones late. It’s just just important to find a high end one.
 
Oct 12, 2023
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Kiper, Field Yates, and a few of ESPN’s other draft guys co-wrote an ESPN+ article the other day. There were anecdotes regarding the quality of this draft class. One AFC source said they only had 8 guys with true first round grades. An NFC source said this class had the lowest number of true first rounders that he’s seen in his career.

I acknowledge those are only two opinions. But if this ends up being the consensus, I think I’d prefer to take one of the guys at the top. The Patriots need elite talent, and this draft may be short on supply.
That’s been the consensus for a while.

The best position groups in this draft are mostly the less valuable ones (safety, off ball LB, RB which is absolutely loaded).

Pretty bad looking crop of guys at the premium positions once you get outside the top 5-8 prospects. Nice players, certainly some decent edge guys, interior DL but not guys that scream “premium player/1st round pick”

Guys like JT Tuimoloau or Tyler Warren or Wyatt Milum aren’t premium prospects. This year’s 15-32 picks are going to feel a lot like the average draft’s 25-50 type. I can’t really get excited about any of the 2nd or 3rd tier WR or CB or other premium positions.
 

Justthetippett

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That’s been the consensus for a while.

The best position groups in this draft are mostly the less valuable ones (safety, off ball LB, RB which is absolutely loaded).

Pretty bad looking crop of guys at the premium positions once you get outside the top 5-8 prospects. Nice players, certainly some decent edge guys, interior DL but not guys that scream “premium player/1st round pick”

Guys like JT Tuimoloau or Tyler Warren or Wyatt Milum aren’t premium prospects. This year’s 15-32 picks are going to feel a lot like the average draft’s 25-50 type. I can’t really get excited about any of the 2nd or 3rd tier WR or CB or other premium positions.
So if they do trade down, maybe a good idea to focus on a return of future picks? Always a bit risky but can be very lucrative.
 

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One AFC source said they only had 8 guys with true first round grades. An NFC source said this class had the lowest number of true first rounders that he’s seen in his career.
The guys hitting the draft now were seniors in high school and freshman in college when Covid disrupted two years or practices and trainings and games

Hopefully we're coming closer to the end of the cohort of athletes whose development was impacted this way
 

Deathofthebambino

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Yeah, not talking a huge trade down but we should be bottom 3-4 this year. Would be good to trade down maybe 4-5 spots and pick up another 2nd or something like that.
If they're trading out of a top 3 pick to outside the top 5, they better get a 2026 1st rounder in return. And nothing less.
 

BigSoxFan

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If they're trading out of a top 3 pick to outside the top 5, they better get a 2026 1st rounder in return. And nothing less.
Don’t think you get that unless someone falls in love with a QB, which tends to happen but this class doesn’t look great. I would definitely shoot for a 1st.
 

Deathofthebambino

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Don’t think you get that unless someone falls in love with a QB, which tends to happen but this class doesn’t look great. I would definitely shoot for a 1st.
No chance there aren't 3 teams looking to jump up for a QB (unless they are already in the top 3). Ewers is going to enter the draft, and Sanders/Ward will have plenty of suitors. Milroe will likely look great at the combine/pro days...I think teams will be looking to even move up for a guy like Hunter.

Top 3 picks are the most valuable asset in the NFL, besides a franchise QB.

The problem is I don't think the Pats will be in the top 3....I think they're going to win a couple games coming in (maybe even this weekend) and drop into the 5-10 range.
 

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No chance there aren't 3 teams looking to jump up for a QB (unless they are already in the top 3). Ewers is going to enter the draft, and Sanders/Ward will have plenty of suitors. Milroe will likely look great at the combine/pro days...I think teams will be looking to even move up for a guy like Hunter.

Top 3 picks are the most valuable asset in the NFL, besides a franchise QB.

The problem is I don't think the Pats will be in the top 3....I think they're going to win a couple games coming in (maybe even this weekend) and drop into the 5-10 range.
I dunno, man.....Mayo is killing them with his coaching and the defense has regressed horribly. It's very possible (likely?) that Maye continues to play well but they lose out.
 
Oct 12, 2023
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No chance there aren't 3 teams looking to jump up for a QB (unless they are already in the top 3). Ewers is going to enter the draft, and Sanders/Ward will have plenty of suitors. Milroe will likely look great at the combine/pro days...I think teams will be looking to even move up for a guy like Hunter.

Top 3 picks are the most valuable asset in the NFL, besides a franchise QB.

The problem is I don't think the Pats will be in the top 3....I think they're going to win a couple games coming in (maybe even this weekend) and drop into the 5-10 range.
I find it hard to believe that 3+ teams will want to move up simply because the two most obvious such teams (Las Vegas and the Giants) look well positioned to stick and pick a QB

Nobody is coming up from pick 15 or later given the absolutely absurd price it would take. So the number of QB desperate teams who would be interested in the #2 or 3 QB (assuming Vegas or Giants take one at #1) is pretty slim. The Jets maybe? Who else is in need of a QB to the point of mortgaging their future for a pretty mediocre “top” prospect? Not a ton of teams have glaring holes at QB (and one will likely fill it with Darnold). I think Bryce Young survives another year in Carolina. Maybe the Titans. I think the Saints would be a long shot but I guess possible. The Rams and Steelers need young QB but likely won’t want to pay the freight given where they’re picking

I just don’t see enough suitors who will need to move up. The teams who need QB will be positioned to get them. I don’t think the Pats are going to find a trade partner (nor do I think trading down is the right play but that’s another story)
 

Cellar-Door

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No chance there aren't 3 teams looking to jump up for a QB (unless they are already in the top 3). Ewers is going to enter the draft, and Sanders/Ward will have plenty of suitors. Milroe will likely look great at the combine/pro days...I think teams will be looking to even move up for a guy like Hunter.

Top 3 picks are the most valuable asset in the NFL, besides a franchise QB.

The problem is I don't think the Pats will be in the top 3....I think they're going to win a couple games coming in (maybe even this weekend) and drop into the 5-10 range.
I think it's POSSIBLE, but I definitely think assuming that there is NO CHANCE is way too strong. This isn't a strong QB class, and history tells us that many QB classes better than this have not had a bunch of teams looking to trade into the top 3 or 5.

2023- better QB class, nobody jumped IND for Richardson, Levis fell clean through to the team that many thought would trade up for him.
2022- worse QB class, #1 QB went at 20
2021- COnsidered a top QB class. 1 trade up well before draft, but 2 of the better prospects dropped to 11 and 15
2020- strong class... teams stuck and picked at 5, 6, the fringier guy fell to 26
2019- similar to this class (outside Kyler), Qbs went 6, 15 not trade up
2018- considered a very strong class... trade up to 3, trade up to 7, trade up to 10, trade up to 32
2017- Good class- trade up to 2 (from 3), trade up to 10, trade up to 12

Generally not a ton of trade ups into the top 5 even in strong classes, which this isn't.

I would guess it's far more likely that teams stick and pick than trade large packages to move up. Possible guys rise or desperation is high, but generally a lot of teams have needed QBs and not traded up into the very top of the draft for non-elite prospects, either waiting on them to fall to them, moving to other positions, or trading up into the range outside the top 10.
 

Cellar-Door

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Seriously people take IG way too seriously.

Polk not being decent is so weird, I don't know a single draft analyst who didn't like him. Some maybe thought he was more a top 50 or even a 3rd than top 40, but.... everyone seemed to think he was going to be a solid contributor with great hands and the disputes were about ceiling. Just bizarre. This isn't one of those raw guys who had bad hands in college, or weigh 155 lbs, or are slow.... he came across on tape as a guys who was dependable and caught EVERYTHING (Penix's tape was loaded with bad throws that Polk saved).... then he gets to the NFL and he can't get out of his own way.
 

ShaneTrot

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Seriously people take IG way too seriously.

Polk not being decent is so weird, I don't know a single draft analyst who didn't like him. Some maybe thought he was more a top 50 or even a 3rd than top 40, but.... everyone seemed to think he was going to be a solid contributor with great hands and the disputes were about ceiling. Just bizarre. This isn't one of those raw guys who had bad hands in college, or weigh 155 lbs, or are slow.... he came across on tape as a guys who was dependable and caught EVERYTHING (Penix's tape was loaded with bad throws that Polk saved).... then he gets to the NFL and he can't get out of his own way.
Even in his highlight video, he was wearing coverage:
 
Oct 12, 2023
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Seriously people take IG way too seriously.

Polk not being decent is so weird, I don't know a single draft analyst who didn't like him. Some maybe thought he was more a top 50 or even a 3rd than top 40, but.... everyone seemed to think he was going to be a solid contributor with great hands and the disputes were about ceiling. Just bizarre. This isn't one of those raw guys who had bad hands in college, or weigh 155 lbs, or are slow.... he came across on tape as a guys who was dependable and caught EVERYTHING (Penix's tape was loaded with bad throws that Polk saved).... then he gets to the NFL and he can't get out of his own way.
I was a fan of Polk coming out of school, but more as a 3rd rounder who could be a #3 somewhere. I thought he needed to go somewhere where he could be paired up with a smart OC who could scheme him open or play alongside high end weapons that would draw coverage away from him (or both)

He doesn’t have great physical attributes and I thought his footwork and natural feel for separating off the snap were pretty poor compared to a lot of the WR prospects. He never really beat man coverage consistently in college except maybe against other teams’ 3rd/4th CB. He benefitted a lot from Odunze and McMillan

I think he was a major reach at the top of the 2nd and a bad fit for a team that needed him to be “the” guy. I think he might have worked out great in Miami, Philly or with the Rams as a #3

His dropsies are weird though, has to be a mental thing. I thought he epitomized high floor, low ceiling #3 WR mostly because he seemed like a tough, over the middle, catch everything type guy.
 

j44thor

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My comp for Polk has always been Doubs. Thought he move the chains by being physical but has no nuance to his game. Just a one speed contested catch guy, 1 in 100 become an Anquan Boldin vast majority are closer to a Tim Patrick type of career. The drops are odd but lack of production are not.
 

Cellar-Door

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My comp for Polk has always been Doubs. Thought he move the chains by being physical but has no nuance to his game. Just a one speed contested catch guy, 1 in 100 become an Anquan Boldin vast majority are closer to a Tim Patrick type of career. The drops are odd but lack of production are not.
I mean what is weird is.... he's bad at all the things we expected him to be good at, and at various points appeared to be good at the things people thought were weaknesses. Like Polk getting incredible separation for the 1st six weeks, but suddenly dropping everything was just weird. First couple weeks people nationally were talking about how he was getting open but had almost no catchable targets (at one point I think someone had him with 6 catches on 6 catchable targets and 10 uncatchable... Jacoby could not hit him downfield), then late Jacoby into Maye weeks, maybe starting with the GW TD that got waived off? He suddenly just couldn't catch at all, then he couldn't line up or get off the snap on time....just a really weird season.

Like if his problem this year had been that he couldn't get off press in the NFL, or guys were closing on him with speed... sure, that was his perceived downside risk... that he can't catch.... bizarre.
 

Auger34

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My comp for Polk has always been Doubs. Thought he move the chains by being physical but has no nuance to his game. Just a one speed contested catch guy, 1 in 100 become an Anquan Boldin vast majority are closer to a Tim Patrick type of career. The drops are odd but lack of production are not.
right.

I’ve consistently stuck up for Wolf but taking Polk instead of McConkey was really fucking dumb. They overdrafted Polk by a good amount according to the consensus board (Polk was a late 2nd rounder, they drafted him in the early 2nd round). Not everyone “loved” Polk where they took him. In fact, most people disliked to strongly disliked the pick. Those people have been proven right thus far. I would bet that Polk doesn’t do much in NE. He seems to be the type of guy that doesn’t do well with the NE media.
 

ShaneTrot

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right.

I’ve consistently stuck up for Wolf but taking Polk instead of McConkey was really fucking dumb. They overdrafted Polk by a good amount according to the consensus board (Polk was a late 2nd rounder, they drafted him in the early 2nd round). Not everyone “loved” Polk where they took him. In fact, most people disliked to strongly disliked the pick. Those people have been proven right thus far. I would bet that Polk doesn’t do much in NE. He seems to be the type of guy that doesn’t do well with the NE media.
The Polk trade looks so much worse when you consider the fourth round pick they received in the trade became Baker and he has been less than zero. I cannot understand how after the emergence of Maye, these guys haven’t produced.
 

Deathofthebambino

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I think it's POSSIBLE, but I definitely think assuming that there is NO CHANCE is way too strong. This isn't a strong QB class, and history tells us that many QB classes better than this have not had a bunch of teams looking to trade into the top 3 or 5.

2023- better QB class, nobody jumped IND for Richardson, Levis fell clean through to the team that many thought would trade up for him.
2022- worse QB class, #1 QB went at 20
2021- COnsidered a top QB class. 1 trade up well before draft, but 2 of the better prospects dropped to 11 and 15
2020- strong class... teams stuck and picked at 5, 6, the fringier guy fell to 26
2019- similar to this class (outside Kyler), Qbs went 6, 15 not trade up
2018- considered a very strong class... trade up to 3, trade up to 7, trade up to 10, trade up to 32
2017- Good class- trade up to 2 (from 3), trade up to 10, trade up to 12

Generally not a ton of trade ups into the top 5 even in strong classes, which this isn't.

I would guess it's far more likely that teams stick and pick than trade large packages to move up. Possible guys rise or desperation is high, but generally a lot of teams have needed QBs and not traded up into the very top of the draft for non-elite prospects, either waiting on them to fall to them, moving to other positions, or trading up into the range outside the top 10.
I think we're looking at this a bit backwards. The reason teams don't trade out of the top 3 and teams don't trade into it very often is because teams in the top 3 need a quarterback. It's rare for a team picking in the top 3 to already have their franchise qb, and thus, be in a position to move down.
 

Jungleland

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The Polk trade looks worse when you consider after trading back, they still could have had Cooper DeJean, who many had as a rd 1 guy and of course is already playing 3/4 of snaps on one of the better defenses in the league. They locked themselves into having to take a WR and it’s hard to not see them as panicking when whoever they really wanted got sniped.

The small consolation to me is that much of that group of WR picks looks questionable - Worthy and Coleman for example have shown some flashes but have also struggled on two of the best offenses in the league. Coleman especially started on as bad a stretch as Polk. Legette gets a major incomplete for his QB situation and then yes McConkey looks like the big miss.
 
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RS2004foreever

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right.

I’ve consistently stuck up for Wolf but taking Polk instead of McConkey was really fucking dumb. They overdrafted Polk by a good amount according to the consensus board (Polk was a late 2nd rounder, they drafted him in the early 2nd round). Not everyone “loved” Polk where they took him. In fact, most people disliked to strongly disliked the pick. Those people have been proven right thus far. I would bet that Polk doesn’t do much in NE. He seems to be the type of guy that doesn’t do well with the NE media.
Did anyone actually say this on draft day? Is there a single member of the Boston media that can say they wanted McConkey better than Polk.
To really know you have to watch a mountain of film - which no one really does.
 

j44thor

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Did anyone actually say this on draft day? Is there a single member of the Boston media that can say they wanted McConkey better than Polk.
To really know you have to watch a mountain of film - which no one really does.
They claimed that they wanted Polk and were willing to take him at 34 but felt they could trade back and still get him. There is video of Wolfe saying that very thing in the Polk thread. Polk was always their guy.
 

Van Everyman

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With Maye getting his feet under him, I would consider them getting Polk going even just a little these last several weeks of the season a big success for the team.

I know we are conditioned in New England to write off highly drafted WRs with a failure to launch as busts (with good reason). But given what @Cellar-Door and others have said about his skills in college and the team’s high evaluation of him, you’d hope that Polk might have a chance to shake his poor start. Especially if the challenges he’s facing are mostly mental.
 

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With Maye getting his feet under him, I would consider them getting Polk going even just a little these last several weeks of the season a big success for the team.

I know we are conditioned in New England to write off highly drafted WRs with a failure to launch as busts (with good reason). But given what @Cellar-Door and others have said about his skills in college and the team’s high evaluation of him, you’d hope that Polk might have a chance to shake his poor start. Especially if the challenges he’s facing are mostly mental.
I watched him play all last season and he made one tough catch after the another. He wasn't a separator but could create enough space and his hands were excellent. This clearly isn't the same player thus far.

I know the delta between college and the NFL is huge so perhaps he just isn't good enough. Its just tough to square with the skills Polk consistently put on display last year.
 
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JohnnyTheBone

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Yeah, McConkey was flying up draft boards the week before the draft. Reports of his routes and dazzling combine performance gave him a lot of helium. I was hoping he'd still be on the board when the Pats picked, and he was! Of course, they traded the pick and he was selected immediately. We got the extra 4th but were saddled with Polk.
 

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If I am not mistaken, Polk leads the WR room in TD catches. He should have a third, but a horrible pass by Birssett took Polk oob.
He and Hooper are tied for the team lead in TD catches, with 2. Polk and Hooper each caught one from Brissett (his only 2 TD passes) and one from Maye. Each of Maye's 10 TD passes was to a different player:
  • TE: Hooper, Henry
  • RB: Stevenson, Hasty
  • WR: Polk, Douglas, Boutte, Bourne, Osborne
  • OL: Lowe
 

j44thor

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Yeah, McConkey was flying up draft boards the week before the draft. Reports of his routes and dazzling combine performance gave him a lot of helium. I was hoping he'd still be on the board when the Pats picked, and he was! Of course, they traded the pick and he was selected immediately. We got the extra 4th but were saddled with Polk.
Wasn't an extra 4th but we gained 27 spots in the 4th, we used that pick on Baker, LAC used the 4th they got from us on Tarheeb Still who is a key cog of their revamed secondary.
 

ShaneTrot

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Polk was the leading Pats receiver in the preseason but I remember a couple of plays where he was muscled out of bounds by DBs. Of course, no one plays in the preseason. He just wears coverage as does Boutte. Does anyone have access to the all 22? The Pats don’t do much motion. Are they running any pick plays or rub routes to scheme these stiffs open?
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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right.

I’ve consistently stuck up for Wolf but taking Polk instead of McConkey was really fucking dumb. They overdrafted Polk by a good amount according to the consensus board (Polk was a late 2nd rounder, they drafted him in the early 2nd round). Not everyone “loved” Polk where they took him. In fact, most people disliked to strongly disliked the pick. Those people have been proven right thus far. I would bet that Polk doesn’t do much in NE. He seems to be the type of guy that doesn’t do well with the NE media.
I know this is the common refrain, and there were a lot of people that liked McConkey, but McConkey felt like a limited upside prospect. It's hard for me to get mad at them swinging for the fences.
 

IdiotKicker

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I know this is the common refrain, and there were a lot of people that liked McConkey, but McConkey felt like a limited upside prospect. It's hard for me to get mad at them swinging for the fences.
I’m not really sure trading down to take a slow, sure-handed guy with limited separation skills is swinging for the fences. Like, if they traded up to go after Worthy and he sucks, it is what it is, and I kind of respect it even if it goes sideways. But if you trade down because of a limited upside guy who you don’t want and take another limited upside guy, you better hope your limited upside guy has more limited downside too, and thus far, he’s the Mariana Trench.
 

j44thor

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I know this is the common refrain, and there were a lot of people that liked McConkey, but McConkey felt like a limited upside prospect. It's hard for me to get mad at them swinging for the fences.
McConkey's measurables were almost identical to Garret Wilson, he has very high upside but injury concerns have lingered throughout his career. I could understand if he was too much of an injury risk but he was one of the best route runners in the class.
 

rodderick

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Eh, you could sell me Baker as a high upside, swing for the fences pick at receiver, but not Polk. The people that liked the pick did so precisely due to an expectation that he'd have a high floor and could contribute as a tough, reliable possession receiver from day one.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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Polk leads Patriots WR with 2 TD’s. He’s also got a decent shot at 100 yards for the season. It’s kind of remarkable how unproductive the Pats wideouts have been.
 

Cellar-Door

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McConkey's measurables were almost identical to Garret Wilson, he has very high upside but injury concerns have lingered throughout his career. I could understand if he was too much of an injury risk but he was one of the best route runners in the class.
Yeah one problem with draft analysis of guys with injury history is we'll never know the medicals. Not impossible that the team doctors looked at that foot or back and said "yeah he's gonna have issues going forward"
 

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McConkey's measurables were almost identical to Garret Wilson, he has very high upside but injury concerns have lingered throughout his career. I could understand if he was too much of an injury risk but he was one of the best route runners in the class.
Yes, as an example-
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Yeah one problem with draft analysis of guys with injury history is we'll never know the medicals. Not impossible that the team doctors looked at that foot or back and said "yeah he's gonna have issues going forward"
This is a great point and the Patriots would be justified in not taking an injury risk given their first round selection of Maye. In contrast, I’d like think a contender with an established QBs would be more capable of taking on a risk like that.

On the other hand, sometimes I wonder if worrying about injury risk for NFL players is foolish. The game is so violent that the most dependable and durable player’s season or career can end on any given play. To give an example of this, I’d reference Keenan Allen’s career. My recollection was that he was a 1st round prospect but with major knee concerns fell to the 3rd. Open to correction as there are a few draft gurus on here who may recall more accurately.
 

Auger34

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Apr 23, 2010
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I know this is the common refrain, and there were a lot of people that liked McConkey, but McConkey felt like a limited upside prospect. It's hard for me to get mad at them swinging for the fences.
I know that McConkeys ceiling isn’t incredibly high and I believe the thought was that Polk could play “X” while Ladd couldn’t, but was Polk a swing for the fence pick? I feel like Polk and Ladd are almost the same ceiling but Polk was possibly better outside?
 
Oct 12, 2023
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How is Polk a “swing for the fences” pick?

He was the exact opposite. Very low ceiling considering mediocre physician attributes. A guy who topped out as a #3 in college, 6’1, 200 lbs, 4.52 on a fast track with a 37.5 vert and 10’9 broad

Everything about him was trying to hit a safe double. A reliable #2 was his absolute upside and considering he almost never got off man coverage in college, I don’t know how realistic that was.

A valuable slot or #3 in a high powered offense is what he should have been. Like he was in college. Awful reach at 37. The unusual “reach for the low upside guy”.

Seems like Wolf probably panicked after he realized all the guys with high end skills or measurables were flying off the board and his choice was Polk or AD Mitchell. Although if he was going to reach, a guy like Franklin would have been more interesting
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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How is Polk a “swing for the fences” pick?

He was the exact opposite. Very low ceiling considering mediocre physician attributes. A guy who topped out as a #3 in college, 6’1, 200 lbs, 4.52 on a fast track with a 37.5 vert and 10’9 broad

Everything about him was trying to hit a safe double. A reliable #2 was his absolute upside and considering he almost never got off man coverage in college, I don’t know how realistic that was.

A valuable slot or #3 in a high powered offense is what he should have been. Like he was in college. Awful reach at 37. The unusual “reach for the low upside guy”.

Seems like Wolf probably panicked after he realized all the guys with high end skills or measurables were flying off the board and his choice was Polk or AD Mitchell. Although if he was going to reach, a guy like Franklin would have been more interesting
I don't understand why you need to add BS to your posts. What does it serve except to undermine your argument? Polk was the clear #2/second best WR for UW last year unless we are talking something else. Why do you need to season the facts?

92489
 
Oct 12, 2023
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I don't understand why you need to add BS to your posts. What does it serve except to undermine your argument? Polk was the clear #2/second best WR for UW last year unless we are talking something else. Why do you need to season the facts?

View attachment 92489
I’m not adding BS. McMillan was clearly the #2 last year. He missed a whole bunch of time.

Did you even watch or are you box score scouting?

Calling him “the second best” compared to McMillan suggests to me you’re using 2023 stats (check their 2022) instead of actually watching them or taking into account McMillan missed a bunch of games and was playing hurt for a few others, all the while drawing better CB’s.

When McMillan was heathy, he was playing over Polk.

It’s like saying Jeremiah Pharms is clearly the best DT in the Pats because he put up more bulk stats while Barmore was out.

Still would love to know how Polk was a “swing for the fences” pick. A guy who was the #3 on his own team with mediocre physical attributes.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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I’m not adding BS. McMillan was clearly the #2 last year. He missed a whole bunch of time.

Did you even watch or are you box score scouting?

Calling him “the second best” compared to McMillan suggests to me you’re using 2023 stats (check their 2022) instead of actually watching them or taking into account McMillan missed a bunch of games and was playing hurt for a few others, all the while drawing better CB’s.

When McMillan was heathy, he was playing over Polk.

It’s like saying Jeremiah Pharms is clearly the best DT in the Pats because he put up more bulk stats while Barmore was out.

Still would love to know how Polk was a “swing for the fences” pick. A guy who was the #3 on his own team with mediocre physical attributes.
McMillan was not the number two all last year - health played a role but Polk was better too. I watched almost all of their games.

You are not presenting information without bias here. You didn't like the Polk pick and thus far you are right - why add nonsense?
 
Oct 12, 2023
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McMillan was not the number two all last year - health played a role but Polk was better too. I watched almost all of their games.

You are not presenting information without bias here. You didn't like the Polk pick and thus far you are right - why add nonsense?
How was Polk better? McMillan was playing over Polk when both were healthy. That’s not bias or opinion. That’s literal fact. When healthy, his snap counts were higher. When both were healthy in 2022, Polk was #3. On opening day 2023, Polk was 3rd

What is it that makes a Polk a swing for the fence pick? What skills did he demonstrate in college that suggested a high upside or that he was a superior prospect to not only McMillan or other guys available?

Your fixation on Polk’a playing time and claims of my “bias” aside, I’d be genuinely interested in hearing how a guy with mediocre (for his position) measurables was a swing for the fences pick. A guy who did nothing exceptionally at college.
 

Patsfan1983

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Apr 30, 2011
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McMillan was not the number two all last year - health played a role but Polk was better too. I watched almost all of their games.

You are not presenting information without bias here. You didn't like the Polk pick and thus far you are right - why add nonsense?
You can't disagree with this guy. He knows everything and we are all wrong.
 

ManicCompression

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May 14, 2015
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He was the exact opposite. Very low ceiling considering mediocre physician attributes. A guy who topped out as a #3 in college, 6’1, 200 lbs, 4.52 on a fast track with a 37.5 vert and 10’9 broad
These are almost identical to Justin Jefferson’s numbers save for the 40 time (though he beats JJ on the 10 yard split)