100%. No harm in playing him, really. Unless winning games is absolutely the #1 priority right now. Of course they all want to win, but the priority right now is figuring things out moving forward. He has to get plenty of rope this season.
Patriots WRs
- Thread starter Zedia
- Start date
If Maye were performing like far and away the worst QB in the league while the young receivers looked pretty good, I think you'd absolutely see people consider benching him. At some point trotting him out there to add fuck up on top of fuck up while not getting targets could harm his confidence even more.
So, he does have skill--had a nice return, but he's not doing what they asked, so he got benched.
I get it, but hopefully he gets another shot next week. He's been practicing well, so we'll see.
Thornton signs with the Chiefs practice squad. Andy likes his fast guys.
View: https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1858620165237129711
View: https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1858620165237129711
Thornton is exactly the WR that KC drafts, perfect fit.... Much like most of those guys I doubt he works out.
I think KC has completely gone off the deep end in prioritizing speed above all else at the position. Maybe that would work for the offense they ran (and how they were defended) in 2018-2020, but now? They need some guys that can win on route running, especially over the middle of the field.
Exactly where my mind went…if there is a place that his 1-2 route ‘tree’ can be integrated into something useful it’s there. Not the most likely but not zero chance either.
I don’t think Thornton will help them, but JJSS and Nuke Hopkins are not speed guys. I also don’t think Rice fits this mold, either. I think their “healthy” WR room makes a lot more sense because Hollywood would get most of these worthy snaps, and XW could have a year to become that guy.
They've basically been chasing a Hill replacement for years and can't find anyone to fit the mold of pure explosiveness.
Worthy, Brown and Hardman are all a variation of that archetype of player. They miss Rice, and even he isn’t exactly a crafty route runner, more of an explosive inside guy.
Keying off of @j-man and @Deathofthebambino 's posts in the Best Rookie QB thread, I have a question:
Can the Pats do the "hire the Tampa Bay Rays evaluators away" thing to draft receivers in the upcoming draft? It seems pretty clear that our evaluation and/or development process when it comes to wide receivers is poor -- either we are picking guys who aren't as talented or we are failing to develop them once they are in the building. Regardless, barring a few guys here and there, the Pats have almost consistently busted at this position going back to the early 2000's -- and while it's still early on Polk and Baker the signs aren't good so far.
Is there a wide receiver whisperer Kraft and Wolf can lure from another organization (Steelers? Niners?) so that we can put some guys around this emerging stud at the QB position?
Can the Pats do the "hire the Tampa Bay Rays evaluators away" thing to draft receivers in the upcoming draft? It seems pretty clear that our evaluation and/or development process when it comes to wide receivers is poor -- either we are picking guys who aren't as talented or we are failing to develop them once they are in the building. Regardless, barring a few guys here and there, the Pats have almost consistently busted at this position going back to the early 2000's -- and while it's still early on Polk and Baker the signs aren't good so far.
Is there a wide receiver whisperer Kraft and Wolf can lure from another organization (Steelers? Niners?) so that we can put some guys around this emerging stud at the QB position?
Rice is a power slot, exactly the type of player Maye could really use since he loves the middle of the field. McConkey would have been such a good fit for Maye. I'm never letting that go. McConkey can win at all 3 levels but excels in the intermediate part of the field with such crisp route running on out and in-breaking routes. I don't think we will see a Ladd McConkey in the 2nd rd this year where NE ends up picking. Maybe they get lucky and Tre Harris slips or possibly Isiah Bond but decent chance they both go in the first.
With health, the receiving group of Kelce, Rice, Dhop, Hollywood, Worthy, etc is a top 10, maybe top 5 unit in football, especially with Reid and Mahomes. Not to mention a running game in Pacheco. I fully expect KC to put it all together come January, unfortunately.
I think this post is spot on but too positive.
The Patriots not only passed on a great fit for their team, they also passed on the consensus top WR on the board so they could draft a WR they viewed as better.
Yet again, they were wrong.
The key is that they’ve done this with two prior 1/2nd round receivers and are about to go 0/3. All the while, multiple receivers they could have drafted have gone elsewhere. Harry, Thornton, Polk, same old story. Meanwhile, they could have Rashee Rice, Josh Downs, McConkey, AJ Brown, etc. Not all of them, that would be unrealistic, any of them.
To miss one or two of these guys is annoying but to be where they are today is unacceptable given team needs and players available to them.
Passing on Downs who went 4 spots after Mapu when you had used your first two picks on Gonzo and White, both certainly good picks, was very questionable. This team badly needed skill position help and instead they draft yet another S hybrid. Mapu wasn't as bad as trading up to draft Chad Ryland but would anyone not trade Mapu for Downs today?
Sure they picked a poor mans Downs in Pop in the 6th but you could have drafted a K in the 6th and probably a S in the 4th. Downs is much, much better than Pop.
Obviously I would rather have McConkey than Polk at this point but I don't think McConkey was a great fit. The big gaping hole on the team was on the outside, since the two best weapons by far in Douglas and Henry are both inside players and Douglas is overwhelmingly lining up in the slot. McConkey has played 64% of his snaps out of the slot for the Chargers.
I think the big issue for the Patriots wasn't passing on McConkey, its that they weren't willing to move up to secure the X receiver they probably wanted and then when Pearsall, Legette, and Coleman all got drafted in a row they had no good plan B and decided to overdraft Polk rather than just addressing a different position.
Passing on Downs made some sense given the roster. He's heavily a slot guy, they had Bourne and Meyers who were both significant slot guys and you could get guys like Boutte and Douglas very late.
Bourne and Meyers are both more flanker Z types than slot and neither of them were under contract beyond that season so you needed to be drafting their replacements regardless. We still had Dugger and Peppers so I fail to see the need for Mapu using your logic. Boutte and Douglas were 6th rd guys for a reason, neither of them is particularly close to Downs. Pop is serviceable but not the route runner Downs is. Boutte blocks well but injuries seemed to have sapped whatever playmaking ability he once had, which was during his sophomore year of college.
There was a decent chance they could have drafted Mapu in the 4th regardless, he was a consensus 120ish pick according to most prognosticators. Granted they would have had to pass on Ryland in the 4th and likely end up with a better kicker in 2023 which leads to them not being in position to draft Maye so I guess it all worked out in the end. Thanks butterfly effect.
I screwed it up by a year... Juju had just been signed, a guy who ran a good amount out of the slot through his career (along with Bourne who also ran 35% or so of his routes in the slot) and they use a good amount of 2 WR set. Add in Parker and having just used a pick on Thornton...... they didn't really have a clear need for a 3rd round slot only guy. Honestly if we think Mapu was a reach, the picks that made a lot more sense there were... Byron Young, Tucker Kraft, Yaya Diaby, maybe even Wanya Morris. Guys at more clear need positons
Malik seems to want out of New York. Does our second-round pick and some sweetener (round 5-7) get it done? Can he be a WR1?
I generally really like Kendrick Borne. That said, when he drew a penalty to get a first down late in the game and started dancing, it rubbed me the wrong way. You are down 24, lets calm down. This WR rooms needs an serious infusion of talent and leadership.
I saw Bourne’s antics a different way: the guy doesn’t get down and is purposely injecting a little fire and swagger into a moribund squad.
I definitely don't see a trade happening but it would be kind of interesting in theory if we landed at #3 or #4 and offered that pick for him straight up.
There’s no way the Giants will trade Nabers after one year. I’m sure the next coach will smooth things over with him
They'd say no. Nabers would be the top prospect in this draft even if we hadn't seen him be great in the NFL, he was a top 5 talent in a loaded class last year and this year is much worse. And NYG will have the high pick they need anyway. Honestly I would guess the only thing they would trade him for is a QB they thought could be elite.... like Trevor Lawrence or something. Think about what expiring top WRs got coming off rookie deals.... 1st rounders, now imagine you get to have that guy younger AND for basically 3 years at $1M a year, plus a 5th year option.... incredibly valuable.
Edit- forgot the roster bonuses, but still only like $7M more across 3 years. Basically you get a top pick, who you already know will make it in the NFL, and you pay him a lot less money.
Hes already a WR1. Maybe a top 10 WR1 in the NFL. I would trade the Pats 2024 1st rounder, and throw in a 3rd for him in a fucking heartbeat, then I'd rent a private jet, fly to New Jersey, shove the paperwork into the hands of whatever Mara kin is in charge now, and hold him at gunpoint,if need be, to force him to sign it.
Just imagine giving Maye both Malik Nabers and Tee Higgins. One can dream.
That'd be the feeling I had waking up on Sundays in 2007 and waiting for kickoff. They wouldn't be as good, but that's the excitement level it would bring.
They still need a functional OL. All the WR talent in the world won't help if Maye doesn't have time to throw.
There's one way:
Giants trade Malik Nabers to Patriots for Drake Maye. Is anyone here up for that? Other teams are trying to win as well. One report of a star player being unhappy with a coach who probably will be out of a job at the end of a season is not enough for a team to explore the trade market for that player.
Maybe the Eagles will trade their entire offensive line for some future sixth and seventh round picks.
Eliot Wolf was promoted to Director of Pro Personnel in 2012 for the Packers. I think we can assume that he's had a influential voice in draft rooms since that point including as a consultant, Direct of Scouting, and his current position in NE.
These are the WR drafted by his teams since that promotion:
GB:
Charles Johnson 7th 2013
Kevin Dorsey 7th 2013
Davante Adams 2nd 2014
Jared Abbrederis 5th 2014
Ty Montgomery 3rd 2015
Trevor Davis 5th 2016
DeAngelo Yancey 5th 2017
Malachi Dupre 7th 2017
Cle:
Antonio Callaway 4th 2018
Damion Ratley 6th 2018
NE:
Nixon 7th 2021
Thornton 2nd 2022
Boutte 6th 2024
Douglas 6th 2024
Polk 2nd 2024
Baker 4th 2024
So that's one exceptional top-10 WR, a guy who had a good career as more of a gadget guy / RB in Montgomery, and a whole bunch of doo-doo(Polk, Baker tbd). Leaving aside his pre-NE years, he's the one through-line from Thornton to Polk/Baker. If they want to improve the WR room there's not much evidence that Eliot Wolf is the guy for the job.
These are the WR drafted by his teams since that promotion:
GB:
Charles Johnson 7th 2013
Kevin Dorsey 7th 2013
Davante Adams 2nd 2014
Jared Abbrederis 5th 2014
Ty Montgomery 3rd 2015
Trevor Davis 5th 2016
DeAngelo Yancey 5th 2017
Malachi Dupre 7th 2017
Cle:
Antonio Callaway 4th 2018
Damion Ratley 6th 2018
NE:
Nixon 7th 2021
Thornton 2nd 2022
Boutte 6th 2024
Douglas 6th 2024
Polk 2nd 2024
Baker 4th 2024
So that's one exceptional top-10 WR, a guy who had a good career as more of a gadget guy / RB in Montgomery, and a whole bunch of doo-doo(Polk, Baker tbd). Leaving aside his pre-NE years, he's the one through-line from Thornton to Polk/Baker. If they want to improve the WR room there's not much evidence that Eliot Wolf is the guy for the job.
This might be the only way to get the Giants to listen.
Is there anything to suggest Wolf had much say in the Packers draft? Director of Pro Personnel would seem to have more say in free agency than the draft.
I'm thinking there's still a sample size problem, given that 10 of the 16 are all 5th round picks or later, and 2 are too recent to properly judge. Boutte and Douglas are certainly good value for 6th round picks; none of them are game changers, but there's at least some level of JAG-like competence between them. And Tre Nixon was Ernie Adams' selection as part of Pink Stripe's retirement gift.
Montgomery is probably the median outcome for a 3rd rounder. Combine Adams and Thornton and you have the typical outcome for second round picks (2nd's bust at something like 40%).
That's 16 guys, 10 of which were drafted in the 5th round or later. What's the hit rate on WR drafted in those rounds?
I'd also probably argue that Douglas is a good pick and maybe Boutte too.
I'd also probably argue that Douglas is a good pick and maybe Boutte too.
Functional? Sure.
A functional offensive line with a stud receiving corps is more than enough for a very good QB in today's game, IMO, and I think Maye is a very good QB. I don't think it's hard to get from where they are on the offensive line to functional. I think it's much harder to get the receiving corps you need to actually make any noise in today's game.
At the end of the day, a good offensive line and still no weapons accomplishes nothing. We've been doing that dance since 2019 even if you choose to blame everything on the QB's. That average QB that hypothetically would have had us in the playoff hunt the last 2 years was nonsense and that was with defensive units that weren't sieves. Nobody would succeed at better than a .500 level with this group of receivers.
Sure, but this could be strategic, right? Snag your targeted guys early or else throw darts in the late rounds. Either way you cut it his track record as an executive when it comes to drafting WR is spotty at best.
Montgomery also ended up more of a RB than a WR. A 3rd round RB who never top 500 rushing yards seems pretty mid, but he did have a long and useful NFL career.
Green Bay didn't really need any WR's while he was there so it could've been flier taking based on some trait they thought might hit. Their WR room was Jordy Nelson, Randall Cobb, James Jones, the end of Greg Jennings in 2012. Nelson, Cobb and Jones were established veterans in their prime. They added Adams in 2013 so they didn't really need to hit on WR's during his tenure with the team.
Drafting WR's in the 5th round and on is largely a dart throwing excersise to begin with. Douglas and Boutte are higer end outcome for a WR drafted in that range. The best 5th round and on WR drafted in the past 5 years is obviously Puka Nicua but he's an extreme outlier. The majority of them flame out. The other hits are guys like Darnell Mooney and Khalil Shakir. There are player to be found but you're far more likely to get a Tre Nixon than a WR that becomes part of your rotation for multiple seasons.
The 3 top picks is probably too small a sample size. Adams is a Hall of Famer. Thornton a bust but who knows who was actually responsible for the pick. Bill had final say on everything so I'm inclined to attach the Thornton pick to him unless reporting comes out to the contrary. Polk obviously doesn't look good but still has some "it's early" caveats (albeit can't say that for much longer).
If I remember correctly, one year's two because the next year's one, right? So a straight up Polk for Nabers trade works, doesn't it? </weei caller>
Passing on McConkey for Polk is all I needed to see to lose confidence in Wolfe as talent evaluator for WRs.
I don't know anyone that had Polk rated higher. Polk was the WR3 in WA once McMillan returned from injury and he has sucked this year as well. Ladd is exactly what this team needed given who was available at pick 34. He'd be a 1k yard receiver in NE.
No we couldn't draft McConkey because the one decent WR we have on the team in Pop plays the same position. /sarcasm
That is depressing. Maybe he's due for a hit? You'd think a monkey slamming a keyboard might do better than 1/16 hits. Boutte and Douglas are decent WR3s or WR4s. It only really takes one excellent draft pick to put this group on a much better track.
I guess there is always one.
Using the mock draft DB aggregator they were about 20 picks apart with Ladd coming in around pick 32 and Polk coming in around pick 52. Ladd on KC would have been scary though he is a big redundant with Rice though they definitely have different styles.
https://www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com/big-boards/2024/consensus-big-board-2024?pos=WR
The top 5 offensive lines by pass block win-rate are:
1. Denver
2. Philadelphia
3. Minnesota
4. Kansas City
5. Baltimore
These teams are all in the playoffs as of today. NE is 32 in PBWR. Imagine what Maye would be behind that Denver line, Nix has been good and he was not a top 3 pick. BTW the 2nd ranked interior offensive lineman by PBWR is a fella named Joe Thuney, the 16th best is some bum named Ted Karras.
I bet the current WRs would be a lot more productive if NE had a top five offensive line. I am not against adding a top WR but this line is awful pass blocking and run blocking and should be the top priority.
1. Denver
2. Philadelphia
3. Minnesota
4. Kansas City
5. Baltimore
These teams are all in the playoffs as of today. NE is 32 in PBWR. Imagine what Maye would be behind that Denver line, Nix has been good and he was not a top 3 pick. BTW the 2nd ranked interior offensive lineman by PBWR is a fella named Joe Thuney, the 16th best is some bum named Ted Karras.
I bet the current WRs would be a lot more productive if NE had a top five offensive line. I am not against adding a top WR but this line is awful pass blocking and run blocking and should be the top priority.
And about what you can realistically hope for with 6th round picks. Many times you don't even get that.